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Is God eternal or Created?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Amardeep, May 5, 2006.

  1. Amardeep

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    Feb 13, 2006
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    Sath shri Akaal jee..

    do we sikhs belive in an eternal God that has been forever, or do we belive in a God that created himself, on other words, have a beginning..

    aapay aap upaa-i-an aap keemat paa-ee.
    He Himself created Himself, and He Himself evaluates Himself.
    Page 786, Line 9

    becuase this verse says that he is eternal and other says that he has been there forever and since the beginning.

    too sadaa salaamat nirankaar. ||16||
    You, Eternal and Formless One! ||16||

    Page 4, Line 11

    how are these verses to be understood.

    can someone shed light on this, or recomend articles about the creation of God.

    Sath Shri Akal.
    #1 Amardeep, May 5, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
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  3. simpy

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    (simpy previously Surinder Kaur Cheema)

    Mar 28, 2006
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    Respected Amardeep Ji,

    On Page 786, line 9 Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Amar Das Ji is refering to the menefested world, my dear. As all His creation is He Himself. So in reference to that is, "HE Created Himself". If you read the very next line (10th line on page 786), the answer to your question lies right there.
    #2 simpy, May 6, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  4. Archived_member2

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    Jul 18, 2004
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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    Dear Amardeep Ji!

    Grasping the complete wisdom contained in a tiny part of God's Creation is not possible for a human mind what to say about HIM

    In my view, the translation you have provided is not correct. A human mind can never claim God's presence and protocol HIS activities.

    Merging in one may realize God. Merging is possible when we transcend mind. One way is the true Simran.


    Let us have a Satsang on this Guru's Vaak.

    When one gets thirsty, he drinks water. Or is it somebody else who drinks water to quench his thirst?

    This is easy to understand that we our self drink water when we need it.

    God is the same. HE creates and acts when HE feels like it.

    When we get satisfied, we come to realize how valuable this act and water are.

    God also not only acts but appreciates the value of all.

    "aapay aap upaa-i-an" means HE creates HIMSELF every act and acts in every creature. "aap keemat paa-ee" means God HIMSELF valuates those.

    "too sadaa salaamat nirankaar" means YOU are ever the Complete, with and without any creation.

    With true Simran when consciousness grows, one starts realizing WHO is creating water, thirst and drinking HIMSELF.

    An enlightened person realizes God continuing in all then we reveal HIS Akhand ROOP.


    Every being gets birth to realize God completely, with and without any creation. This is where silence and activities merge.


    Balbir Singh
  5. Sinister

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    SPNer Supporter

    May 4, 2006
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    These are my opinions:

    These lines that you gave us have a particular significance (read between the lines)
    They cannot be understood! They are not ment to be understood!

    "He himself created himself"

    this is not possible
    for a creation their must be a creator and then the creation.
    they have no logical meaning (its like trying to conjure the image of a fourth dimension)

    So why write this? :
    In the very fist lines of the japji it is said that no mortal can conjure up an image of God, "one can only ponder his greatness".
    "Sochai soch na hoveai jay sochee lakh vaar"

    In other words; this is an assault on humanity and humanism. To rid us of the philosophical path of questioning the nature of God. Why do this? The Guru beleives philosophical pondering brings about more and more discontent and distancing from God. To describe the universe and its workings was NOT the primary objective of our Guru's.
    The Guru's primary objective was to develop morality not describe the portrait/workings of the universe, and Guru Nanak makes that very clear in the first few lines of Japji.

    hope this helps.
  6. Sugmad

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    Apr 24, 2006
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    surinder kaur cheema is right.thanks

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