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Is God a Conscious Entity? Perspectives from Sikhism and Other Faiths

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by Harman Singh, Mar 7, 2007.

  1. Harman Singh

    Harman Singh
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    Is god a conscious entity?

    Do we have free will or do we obey his will only and are nothing but mindless pawns acting out the inevitable?

    Why do we have to do anything other than simran, when simran is the way to open your mind and let the positive energy flow into you, I don't understand jap ji sahib and nor do I feel there is any added bonus in taking the time to recite it all everyday other than showing discipline and devotion, when that time can be used for much more important things? Also reading the english translation of japi sahib give me feelings of a calsh between the philosophy of sikhi i feel true and grew up learning with the actual preachings of the jap ji sahib


    How can a perfect god create something imperfect?

    When the gurus said they wrote the Bani as direct word of god, was waheguru, this higher state of "energy" that runs through all has life, actually speaking through them and the pen flowed and wrote the direct word of god, or was it, they meditated and wrote what they had discovered through their own enlightenment? Because, some sites I've read that guru Nanak was god himself reincarnate, others I've read he was a teacher, others that he was a 'prophet'. Am I supposed to believe he went into a river and came out three days later enlightened?


    Of all those questions, my main one is, how can god be conscious? why does he not answer prayers of true devotees (not myself specifically, but I have seen people of strong faith always be upset and dwell on why god hates them). I'm a man of science and logic, and I still believe in sikhi but I find some things very odd and it's really starting to bother me seeing people around me balme everything on gods will when they need to realise they control their lives and what's ahppening around them. I am just getting back into simran and I wish my faith could be stronger, but I refuse to believe there is a "god" who allows this suffering when he has control over it, I like to think of it more as the energy of life that links every living being, an unconscious creator that is in itself "supreme life". If something happens, it is not "gods will" rather a bunch of logical actions and reactions leading to that event, in which there is no super human intervention. I can believe stronger in most of what is preached, only if this is true, that there is no super human intervention in anything... sorry if I’m rambling but it's always on my mind and I’m at a very awkward stage in my life where I want to find myself again and remove myself from this cycle of wasting my precious time and my decisions are going to really effect the people I'm around. More specifically I have a friend who is contimplating suicide and is a very nice person but feels god continues to let her down time and time again, and her prayers are never answered, but I try to explain to her that she needs to take control and that there is no intervention and praying for htings to change won't make them change, she has to do ti herself and see that there is no super human intervention that is going to make her life better. She grew up in an all girls christian schol but her parents are backwards punjabi parents with stupid stubborn thinking.

    sorry again if I'm rambling but if someone can help me make sense of this I would really appreciate this. I know this isn't a support group site or anything, and it's selfish of me to come here and not contribute but take information, but if not here then where right?

    Thanks again,
    Harman Singh.






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    #1 Harman Singh, Mar 7, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 11, 2010
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  3. curious seeker

    curious seeker
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    Re: Some questions...

    Ushta Harman

    Zoroastrian -Sikh answerÑ

    The Physical laws of the Cosmos are part of the Naam. God cannot violate the physical laws of the Cosmos without negating His Naam which He cannot do (He is self limited by His own nature). Thus since the Law of the Cosmos allow influence on man and his mind, (heart or feelings are also part of the mind) he can influence the mind of men to have someone hired. But since re-growing a lost limb , is not possible under the Physical Laws of Nurture. Wahe Guru,who does not violate His own nature, cannot grow the limb back

    Any flaws in the above?
     
  4. curious seeker

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    Re: Some questions...

    Divine Light for you

    Atheist cannot be right! The Atheist cannot answer origins or causation and must deny them They have to posit the eternal existence f the Cosmos otherwise they have to live with the fact that EVERYTHING has a cause or origin.

    But when they posit a Universe as eternal they are also in trouble because of change everything is runnbg down or dyeing , yet new systems come into being every day. Wherefrom? Again causation!

    Thus the only ways to account for evil in a Created cosmos are:
    1. God gives evil as well as good and gives evil for unknown reasons but his reasons Have to Be god for He is Good
    2. There are two primal principles once creates sustains and fosters good and the other evil.
    3. God is all Good m evil and good are names we give to the results of our actions. We in fact do not create good or evil we s because they ir only existence divorced of our ethical choices is as possibilities inherent in choice. Therefore Good and evil are MANIFESTED by our choices .

    The Sikhi answwer would be that the only way to manifest good and not evil lies in surrendering the discretion of our free will to the Command or Eternal law of God´s Perfect Will which is good
     
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  5. curious seeker

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    Hi Harman, Divine Light for You

    I will give my .02 cents about your very interesting post, even though I perceive we won't agree


     
    #4 curious seeker, Mar 12, 2010
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  6. curious seeker

    curious seeker
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    Re: Some questions...


    Hi

    Outside spiritual experience is possible to doubt, however, the atheists also have no proofs so they also believe in their own way, a negative belief but a belief any way. I don't know about 'people' but I certainly do not ignore pain and sorrow. they are very real and strike in both suspected and unsuspected places and times. However, these things have to be a given if you have a temporal and ephemeral physical reality. To me its obvious that the laws of nature, which are part of the Creator, for whatever reason, cannot eliminate physical change It probably has to do with things like the curvature of the space time continuum, the presence of chance, etc. But more than likely is designed to be that way, after all, an eternal physical universe would mean man more than likely would not progress spiritually and the Justice and Fairness of the Creator could not work through rebirth

    But for whatever reason, its something that we night not be able to understand But can definitely accept if you are in communion at least partially, with Wahe Guru

    Besides, what is the alternative, not to exist? Not to be born not to experience the many pleasures of life? Because let us not forget that life is not just a vale of tears, OK? In fact if you take the average person's life most of it is more than tolerable. People are extremists, they either look at life and say its a positive or it is negative, no in betweens. Life is what it is, the gift of existence, of becoming and for he believer the possibility of undreamed of bliss in the arms of the creator

    But faith is all about experience, if you haven't had a deep spiritual experience, then faith is hard to have. Recognize the ephemeral and unstable nature of life. Recognize that given our empirical knowledge of causation there is a very good change (I would say more than excellent) that there is a Creator. Recognize that creatures are ignorant and lack knowledge, recognize that this, very possible, Creator has to be incredibly wise, powerful and deep (to start out with the very fact that He is creator must mean He transcends, at least partially the physical reality that He has created) Then suspend judgment for a second and go to him recognizing your smallness and His greatness and justs stop willing and striving with the physical illusions that separate you from the presence. Put away your ego. He is everywhere ask him for help, offer yourself to Him in sincerity, surrender for a second, recognize your ego and let it go and see if He does not touch you, see if you won't experience Him. Because, my friend, if you are sincere and you seek Him in humility and with an open mind and heart, you will find Him. I, for one, have found him in the strangest of places and even in some religions that I cannot accept myself He is there!

    Try it, you might indeed get to have an encounter ... of the God kind!!

    Wishing Bliss
    Curious
     
  7. harbansj24

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    The closest anybody who has got to on theorising on the origin of universe and its limits is the human genius Stephen Hawkins. But he too in brilliant book "A Brief History of Time" runs into many unexplained and inexplicable contradictions.
    Though he claims that there is no God and and everything can be explained as an extension of the "Big Bang", he fails to convincingly explain what was it that caused the Big bang.
    I feel that human beings do not have the capability to understand it absolutely and supposing they do acquire that capability, then we will cease to exist as human beings!!!
     
  8. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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  9. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਜੀਅ ਜਾਤਿ ਰੰਗਾ ਕੇ ਨਾਵ
    जीअ जाति रंगा के नाव ॥
    Jī▫a jāṯ rangā ke nāv.
    The names and the colors of the assorted species of beings

    ਸਭਨਾ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਵੁੜੀ ਕਲਾਮ
    सभना लिखिआ वुड़ी कलाम ॥
    Sabẖnā likẖi▫ā vuṛī kalām.
    were all inscribed by the Ever-flowing Pen of God.

    ਏਹੁ ਲੇਖਾ ਲਿਖਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਕੋਇ
    एहु लेखा लिखि जाणै कोइ ॥
    Ėhu lekẖā likẖ jāṇai ko▫e.
    Who knows how to write this account?

    ਲੇਖਾ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਕੇਤਾ ਹੋਇ
    लेखा लिखिआ केता होइ ॥
    Lekẖā likẖi▫ā keṯā ho▫e.
    Just imagine what a huge scroll it would take!

    ਕੇਤਾ ਤਾਣੁ ਸੁਆਲਿਹੁ ਰੂਪੁ
    केता ताणु सुआलिहु रूपु ॥
    Keṯā ṯāṇ su▫ālihu rūp.
    What power! What fascinating beauty!

    ਕੇਤੀ ਦਾਤਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਕੌਣੁ ਕੂਤੁ
    केती दाति जाणै कौणु कूतु ॥
    Keṯī ḏāṯ jāṇai kouṇ kūṯ.
    And what gifts! Who can know their extent?

    ਕੀਤਾ ਪਸਾਉ ਏਕੋ ਕਵਾਉ
    कीता पसाउ एको कवाउ ॥
    Kīṯā pasā▫o eko kavā▫o.
    You created the vast expanse of the Universe with One Word!

    ਤਿਸ ਤੇ ਹੋਏ ਲਖ ਦਰੀਆਉ
    तिस ते होए लख दरीआउ ॥
    Ŧis ṯe ho▫e lakẖ ḏarī▫ā▫o.
    Hundreds of thousands of rivers began to flow.

    ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਕਵਣ ਕਹਾ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ
    कुदरति कवण कहा वीचारु ॥
    Kuḏraṯ kavaṇ kahā vīcẖār.
    How can Your Creative Potency be described?

    ਵਾਰਿਆ ਜਾਵਾ ਏਕ ਵਾਰ
    वारिआ न जावा एक वार ॥
    vāri▫ā na jāvā ek vār.
    I cannot even once be a sacrifice to You.

    ਜੋ ਤੁਧੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਸਾਈ ਭਲੀ ਕਾਰ
    जो तुधु भावै साई भली कार ॥
    Jo ṯuḏẖ bẖāvai sā▫ī bẖalī kār.
    Whatever pleases You is the only good done,

    ਤੂ ਸਦਾ ਸਲਾਮਤਿ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ॥੧੬॥
    तू सदा सलामति निरंकार ॥१६॥
    Ŧū saḏā salāmaṯ nirankār. ||16||
    You, Eternal and Formless One! ||16||

    Srigranth Page 3
     
    #8 Astroboy, Mar 12, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  10. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Page 16, Line 3
    ਸੋ ਕਿਉ ਮਨਹੁ ਵਿਸਾਰੀਐ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਜੀਅ ਪਰਾਣ ॥
    सो किउ मनहु विसारीऐ जा के जीअ पराण ॥
    So ki▫o manhu visārī▫ai jā ke jī▫a parāṇ.
    How can you forget the One who created your soul, and the praanaa, the breath of life?
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    [/SIZE]
     
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    #9 Astroboy, Mar 12, 2010
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  11. Astroboy

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    #10 Astroboy, Mar 12, 2010
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  12. spnadmin

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    This thread has been split so that the original article and perspectives from other faiths now constitute an interfaith dialog. The original article has also been copied and moved with older posts as a separate thread to the Sikh, Sikhi, Sikhism section. Please stay on topic.
     
  13. curious seeker

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