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Controversial Inter-Religion Marriage Not Valid Under HMA: HC

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Archived_Member16, Dec 31, 2010.

  1. Archived_Member16

    Archived_Member16
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    The Hindu Marriage Act , 1955 - Section 2

    Application of Act.- (1) This Act applies -

    (a) to any person who is a Hindu by religion in any of its forms or developments, including a Virashaiva, a Lingayat or a follower of the Brahmo, Prarthana or Arya Samam,

    (b) to any person who is a Buddhist, Jaina or Sikh by religion ......................"

    In light of the above, would the following ruling apply to Sikh & non-Sikh partners ?

    Inter-Religion Marriage Not Valid Under HMA: HC
    New Delhi - Dec 31, 2010

    The marriage between a Hindu and a non-Hindu solemnised as per the Hindu rites is neither valid nor the parties can claim any benefits under the Hindu Marriage Act (HMA), the Delhi High Court has ruled.

    The High Court also held that "mere theoretical allegiance" to Hinduism would not make one a Hindu unless he or she had actually converted to the religion.

    "Mere fact that the parties had solemnised the marriage as per the Hindu rites and ceremonies would not attract the applicability of the Hindu Marriage Act as the mandate of the law is that marriage has to take place between two Hindus," said Justice Kailash Gambhir in a recent judgement.

    The court dismissed a petition filed by a woman, who sought divorce under the HMA, claiming that her marriage with a Christian had taken place at Arya Samaj temple as per Hindu rituals in 2007 and said the parties were required to be Hindu at the time of solemnisation of marriage.

    "It is imperative to prove that both the parties were Hindus at the time of the solemnisation of marriage," the court said.

    The court rejected the woman's claim that her husband had converted to Hinduism as she failed to furnish any evidence to substantiate her claim.

    "...A mere theoretical allegiance to the Hindu faith by a person born in another faith does not convert him into a Hindu, nor is a bare declaration that he is a Hindu sufficient to convert him to Hinduism. The conversion from one religion to another religion is a very major decision in one's life and for proving such a conversion, it is incumbent upon the appellant to place on record complete facts and documentary material, if any, to satisfy the court that based on such facts and supporting material, the appellant had undergone change of religion."

    The ruling came on a petition filed by Sangeeta, who challenged the family court's March 2010 order dismissing her divorce petition on the ground that her husband Preston Gomes is a Christian and there was no evidence to prove that he converted to Hinduism.


    source: http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?706898
     
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  3. rbamrah

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    This is why my husband and I had to sign conversion papers directly before our marriage. Literally; we signed the papers in our wedding dress and had the ceremony right after.

    He wore his kara throughout the entire process however:grinningkaur:
    Hardest part is having to explain to the social security office, when changing your maiden name to your married name, where 'Arya' comes from. They needed my wedding and conversion papers before changing my SS card.

    Whole thing is too much hassle, we need better laws concerning this.
     
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  4. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    rmbarah ji

    I appreciate your coming back online to explain this situation, which I think too many underestimate. Happy New Year!
     
  5. spnadmin

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    Now after 5 years of trying to understand the HMA I still do not understand in a practical way - only as a theoretical matter. India is a "secular" country according to everything one reads, unless religion is involved...??? I will keep trying.
     
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  6. Siri Kamala

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    Whew. Makes me happy to be an American...things are far from perfect here, but at least no one gets in your business if your "pursuit of happiness" involves an inter-faith marriage!

    IMO, if the State wants to oversee how marriage is conducted, the marriage needs to become the sole province of the State, whereby any two people (yes, including gay/lesbian people) :hug: can apply for a marriage license and have a *civil* ceremony which then accords to them all the rights, privileges, liabilities, and responsibilities historically afforded to any married couple.

    If the couple then wish to have their marriage blessed by the religious institution of their choice, and said religious institution is willing to bless that union, then hey -- Party On, Garth! Rock and ROLL!
    :up:

    The failure to separate church and state is, IMHO, :lame: and a very :badidea: ...
     
  7. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    There is already a special marriage act in India Where a person irrespective of Religion can get married

    http://www.legalserviceindia.com/helpline/marriage.htm

    It is only that the woman is seeking divorce under Hindu marriage act.If his husband is Christian then she should had marriage under Special marriage act.
     
  8. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    I do wish to comment on the following,

    "India is a "secular" country according to everything one reads, ..."

    You cannot be too young or never heard the slogan peacesign,

    - Hindu, Hindi, Hindustan

    It was quite popular when Punjab was split into the tiniest of its Greater self with the creation of other states out of it. Most Hindus who spoke Punjabi for everything registered Hindi as their mother tongue in the census then. This was the basis for diminishing Punjabi speaking Punjab. Punjabi Punjab will be loved to death through cultural transformation with the flood of Hindi speaking migrants.peacesign

    Sikhism is great spiritual and martial religion. However it has been dogged with extremely naive and corrupt political leadership over time. I don't know a solution for it.:sobstory:

    May be we will establish a Punjab in some other foreign land or create an International brotherhood of Punjab with loosely knit communities connected together across the globe. I would like this.cheerleader:yippie:

    Sat Sri Akal
     
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  9. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    All Religions say this.Muslims cry that corrupt leaders Prevented Pakistan from becoming jannat,Hindu's cry that corrupt Hindu leaders allowed muslims to settle and multiply freely in India and Sikhs too say that their corrupt leaders ruined Sikhism
     
  10. Ambarsaria

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    kds1980 ji, I am not saying the leaders ruined Sikhism.

    I am saying they ruined the Punjabi speaking Punjab which has Punjabi speaking people (sikh, hindu, muslim, christian, buddhists, jains, and many more). I have no qualms about other spiritualities as we are all God'd people in my mind. There obviously are issues if the political or other arms of such religions ask for your conversion or extinction, etc.

    Punjabi language is under great threat towards extinction. Even the sikh officers and politicians are very proud to speak Hindi. There is an equal threat in Punjab (Pakistan) where Urdu is being enforced to remove Punjabi dialect connectivity.

    You lose Punjabi and you will lose Punjab. Losing Punjab will have disastrous long term consequences for Sikhism.

    Just my opinion and no swordfight

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
  11. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Ambarsaria ji

    Well all states in India have corrupt leaders.Marathi's also feel Marathi language is dying That's why fanatic lingustic leaders Like Raj thackerey emerged and well supported by sizeable Marathi population

    I don't understand the relationship between Punjabi and sikhism.Punjabi is necessary just for reading and understanding sikh scriptures.As far speaking is concerned majority of just pick language what is mostly spoken around them.If tomorrow large numbers of Uttar pradesh people or Bihari embrace sikhism they will continue to speak Hindi.

    The language that is mainly spoken here is not even true hindi.It could be said that this language is hindustani ,because people speak it with words of Hindi,urdu ,bollywood words and their native language.

    You also mentioned about floods of Hindi speaking migrants in your post.On that I just want to say that this problem is created by Punjabi's themself
    They just left Punjab for better life all over the world ,so Migrants came to Punjab to do the work.
     
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  12. Ambarsaria

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    I generally agree with your comments just some minor comments,
    I don't know Marathi issue (or Raj thackerey) but one can not be called a fanatic just for trying to protect their mother tongue.

    This is quite a WOW comment for me to grasp. There is some logical truth in your statement about picking up languages but not at the expense of losing sight of the language of our scriptures. Translations can be good but they are never the same.

    I think we need a reality check. The love of sikhi in Uttar Pradesh or Bihar is something to not even mention. Have you ridden buses in Uttar Pradesh where people will purposely push smoke from cigarettes towards sikhs (one wearing turbans as easy to recognize).

    Rivers don't swallow oceans but oceans swallow rivers. Sikhism is but a small river getting smaller in India, surrounded by an ocean of Hiduism.


    I agree and I apologize for one of the guilty who left Punjab.
    I do believe that you are logical but I beg to differ on some items as noted above.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
  13. Siri Kamala

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    Having recently watched Rocket Singh: Salesman of the Year (great movie, btw!), I was boggled by just how many English words were sprinkled in with the Hindi. I see evidence of this on the Facebook Sikhism group as well -- people will be speaking full-on Punjabi, and every 10, 15, or 20 words there will be an English word.

    I want to learn it the better to understand Sikh scriptures as well, but I am concerned that the original text was written in what is the equivalent of Middle English -- i.e. it will make as much sense to me, even if I come to speak and read Punjabi very well, as Chaucer makes sense to me (which is not much, even though I once worked as an English teacher!). How useful will that actually be to me? And if someone is going to recommend that I read a translation into modern Punjabi, would I not do just as well to read a translation into modern English?

    What I see around the bend is a struggle for the Sikh faith to discern that which is of essence to the faith and that which is culturally Punjabi, because not only is there a vastly spreading diaspora of Punjabi Sikhs, there are more and more people like me who are coming to the faith all on our own, without any of the cultural trappings of Malaysia or Punjab or 3HO -- and perhaps with different assumptions and biases and preferences at work than believers who are born into one of those Sikh backgrounds. There is also going to be a great power struggle between existing Sikh groups, e.g. traditional Sikhs (who reject yoga and gay marriage) vs. 3HO Sikhs (who embrace yoga and gay marriage).

    The SGPC and five Jathedars may be faced with a Reformation movement not all that different from what Pope Leo X faced at the hands of Martin Luther. It will be interesting to see how much flexibility and patience they will be willing to have with their western brothers and sisters when push comes to shove.

    Is this being discussed on a board elsewhere here at SPN? If so I would be very interested in reading others' thoughts on that!
     
  14. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Well I agree with you that learning language of your religious scripture is necessary from the point of view of learning your religion ,but speaking the same language I don't think so.

    Well my brother studied in College of Uttar pradesh which is situated in NCR region of Delhi.
    Mostly his friends are from UP .There is not even a single case he told me about discrimination despite being a turbaned.Infact he was One of the most dominant boy of class,may be it is because his college was very hi fi in which admission is very difficult.
    Anyway don't know about inner UP or BiHAR but never heard anything like this.

    100% agreed with your statement that is why sikhs need to maintain some of their orthodox attitude rather than adopting westernised liberal thinking.Infact all over the world sikhs are surrounded by some other ideology
     
    #13 kds1980, Jan 4, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2011
  15. Siri Kamala

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    SSA kds1980 Ji

    You say that as if Sikhs are monolithic...as if none of them are *born* into a culture awash in "westernized liberal thinking"... :33:

    So I guess my questions for you would be:
    1. How do you define "Sikhs" exactly?
    2. How do you define "orthodox attitude"?
    3. How do you define "westernized liberal thinking"?

    Thank you! peacesignkaur
     
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  16. Ambarsaria

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    Dialog is great and I believe we are closer than we think. Just one comment on the following,

    Well my brother studied in College of Uttar pradesh which is situated in NCR region of Delhi. Mostly his friends are from UP .There is not even a single case he told me about discrimination despite being a turbaned.Infact he was One of the most dominant boy of class,may be it is because his college was very hi fi in which admission is very difficult. Anyway don't know about inner UP or BiHAR but never heard anything like this.

    What you say is absolutely the truth and I trust what you say. However, what I stated is the truth too.

    How does it get explained. My take,


    • Behavior of people in a group where they know each other can be much different than behavior where they don't know the people. I have lived near Hindus, muslims, christians and worked with them too in line with your observations.
    • Riots in Delhi and deaths of sikhs were caused by packs of hindus who perhaps individually would be OK with sikhs. So the issue is how the inner bad gets kindled and takes over and once you are a minority you will see it sooner or later much more often than a majority.
    Thanks for the dialog.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  17. spnadmin

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    Siri Kamala ji

    This problem is faced by native or born speakers of modern Punjabi also.

    The advantage which a native speaker has is a reference book called Guru Granth Darpan by Professor Sahib Singh (now departed). The book gives equivalent meanings however it too is written in Punjabi.

    The translation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which is most commonly used on the Internet is one by Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa. It is called the "consensus translation" by the SGPC. I have found it is far from a "consensus" translation as so many have problems with it. If I might summarize my observations in a nutshell. All translations to English, without exception, reflect a bias of the translator. These differ according to the individual translator. I might add that translations of any scripture will carry bias. This is also true of the Christian Scriptures which have been re-translated dozens of times, according to the political winds of Europe when they were commissioned by popes, kings and potentates.
     
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  18. Ambarsaria

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    spnadmin ji I assume you mean Professor Sahib Singh ji (not Sabib).

    If I am not mistaken, I see you occasionally quote translations in English. Is one available on this site or where can I get one? I can read Punjabi but I don't have too many viakhia books but have some from my father.

    Sat Sri Akal
     
  19. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Well defining sikh is one of the most difficult thing these days as everyone love's to define sikh in their own way but not ready to accept other way.I guess my personal stand is I stick with the defination What is written in SRM.

    The most important point in both of your questions to me is Sikhs should stick to marrying other sikhs rather than going and accepting interfaith marriage's because interfaith marriage's are the biggest threat to sikhs.westernised liberal thinking means to me that people start thinking that all religions are same ,there is nothing special in sikhism,people start giving access freedom to children.So I expect sikhs to maintain some of their traditional practices (not all).
     
  20. BhagatSingh

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    This a good website, I have had no problems with it so far: srigranth.org
     
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  21. spnadmin

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    Ambarasia ji, and Bhagat Singh ji

    Thanks. I will correct the spelling error.

    The site I typically use is not srigranth.org, but searchgurbani.com...where the translation is by Dr. Sant Singh.

    At srigranth.org you have a choice between two translations. One by Dr. Sant Singh and one by Bhai Manmohan Singh. Many people prefer the Manmohan Singh translation here at SPN, but not all.

    I also use a translation by Dr. Gurcharan Singh Talib on occasion. This is not available on the Internet. The Talib translation is 4-volume set which goes into nearly every line in great detail, giving annotations and explanations of translations. Often alternative translations are given. Worth every penny spent.

    Comparing several translations is often a very valuable strategy.
     
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