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Importance of Saadh Sangat

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Arvind, Sep 14, 2004.

  1. Arvind

    Arvind
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    Sangat,

    While reading a book yesterday, came across the importance of Saadh Sangat, which is mainly important to get rid of ego. What are your views about this?

    May be we can start from:
    1. What is Saadh Sangat?
    2. Why it is needed?
    3. How can this be recognized?
    4. Cant I just sit in my room, never go to sangat, and achieve the knowledge (which I wud get thru sangat)?

    I find this really important, as this brings more and more humility, while seeing at others with far better spiritual resumes with them, and us generally engrossed in Maya!

    Best Regards.
     
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  3. etinder

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    dear arvind veer u raised a very valid question, i m trying to reach the problem as what SGGS has to say,

    the following are few quotes which are self explanantory

    ibnu sMgiq swD n DRwpIAw ibnu nwvY dUK sMqwpu ]
    bin sa(n)gath saadhh n dhhraapeeaa bin naavai dhookh sa(n)thaap ||
    still, without the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, he will not feel satisfied. Without the Name, all suffer in sorrow.

    kir sMgiq qU swD kI ATsiT qIrQ nwau ]
    kar sa(n)gath thoo saadhh kee at(h)asat(h) theerathh naao ||
    Let the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, be your cleansing baths at the sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage.

    swD kY sMig pwrbRhmu pCwxw ]2]
    saadhh kai sa(n)g paarabreham pashhaanaa ||2||
    In the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, the Supreme Lord God is recognized. ||2||

    duqru qry swD kY sMig ]3]
    dhuthar tharae saadhh kai sa(n)g ||3||
    I have crossed over the treacherous world-ocean in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy. ||3||

    nwm rwis swD sMig KwtI ]
    naam raas saadhh sa(n)g khaattee ||
    In the Saadh Sangat, I have earned the wealth of the Naam.
    swD kY sMig iklibK sB Doey ]3]
    saadhh kai sa(n)g kilabikh sabh dhhoeae ||3||
    in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, all sinful mistakes are washed away. ||3||

    qhw sMgiq swD gux rsY ]
    thehaa sa(n)gath saadhh gun rasai ||
    There, in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, the Lord's Glorious Praises are sung with love.
    imlu swDsMgiq Bju kyvl nwm ]1]
    mil saadhhasa(n)gath bhaj kaeval naam ||1||
    Join the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy; vibrate and meditate on the Jewel of the Naam. ||1||


    swDsMgiq kau vwirAw jIau kIAw kurbwxu ]
    saadhhasa(n)gath ko vaariaa jeeo keeaa kurabaan ||
    I am devoted to the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy; I sacrifice my soul to them.

    swDsMgiq hoie inrmlw ktIAY jm kI Pws ]
    saadhhasa(n)gath hoe niramalaa katteeai jam kee faas ||
    In the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you shall become absolutely pure, and the noose of death shall be cut away.

    swDsMgiq isau sMgu n kIAw bhu jonI duKu pwvY ]
    saadhhasa(n)gath sio sa(n)g n keeaa bahu jonee dhukh paavai ||
    He does not join the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, and he suffers in terrible pain through countless incarnations.
    imil sMgiq min nwmu vsweI ]
    mil sa(n)gath man naam vasaaee ||
    Joining the Sangat, the Holy Congregation, the Name comes to dwell in the mind.

    swDsMgiq ibnu qirE n koie ]
    saadhhasa(n)gath bin thariou n koe ||
    that without the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, no one swims across
    eyku bolu BI Kvqo nwhI swDsMgiq sIqleI ]3]
    eaek bol bhee khavatho naahee saadhhasa(n)gath seethalee ||3||
    I could not bear even one criticism, but now, in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, I am cooled and soothed. ||3||
    ijs no Awpy rMgy su rpsI sqsMgiq imlwie ]
    jis no aapae ra(n)gae s rapasee sathasa(n)gath milaae ||
    Only those whom the Lord imbues, are so imbued; they join the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation.

    and million others ......and lots of vaars by Bhai gurdas ji are filled with the benefits and why the saad sangat is important.



    swD sMgiq Bau Bwau sihj bYrwg hY]
    saadhh sa(n)gath bho bhaao sehij bairaag hai||.
    Fear (of God) and love (for mankind) being diffused in the holy congregation the sense of non-attachment always prevails.
    swD sMgiq gur isK iml Awsw ivc inrws jmwey]
    saadhh sa(n)gath gur sikh mil aasaa vich niraas jamaaeae||
    The Sikh of the Guru, being in the holy congregation, while living in joys remains indifferent to desires.

    swD sMgiq gur Sbd ivx lK cOrwsI jon BvwvY]
    saadhh sa(n)gath gur shabadh vin lakh chaaraasee jon bhavaavai||
    Without holy congregation and bereft of Guru-word he transmigrates into infinite species of life.


    so what i feel at this stage that a sikh needs the sadh sangat..and its very important part of a sikhs life..i m not saying that meditation alone is of no use but sadh sangat can create wonders in a sikh's journey of the love for guru and search of truth
    regards
    bhul chuk maaf
    etinder
     
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  4. Arvind

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    wow, that is so wonderful reply. And this reminds me of one post at sikhpal by snavneet, where he was seeking holy company. I will try to locate that, and post those contents here for our better understanding.

    Even if one goes for just one benefit out of so many listed here, it is SO much worth it. Thanks much etinder ji, this has been a great help.

    Best Regards.
     
  5. Amarpal

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    Dear Member Sahib,

    (i) Saadh is one who has mastered herdelf/himself. This is the individual who belongs to 'Karta Purakh' and has no selfish motive. All what she or he is belongs to 'The Sat'. This individual is not just knowledgable but creates new knowlwdge. In other words this individual is not just a Shastri (well read) but Gyani (who has transended Shastras gone beyond it and is now saying what is comming from within her/his own being). This is my understanding of Saadh.

    (ii) It is important for us to interact with Saadhs as we can learn more from them. Keep in mind that you should understand what the Saadh are telling only what is within Gurmat alone should be accepted. Blind acceptance can lead you in wrong direction. There are many individual who where the Sadhu's cloths just to gain a living.

    (iii) Your third question is answered in the first para.

    (iv) Just on your own you cannot become divine. The human faculties have not eveolved for this purpose; these have evolved over time have the abilities to cope with worldly life. It does not have the interface to link oneself to 'The Sat'; it is for each individual to create it to the extent possible, beyond that it depends on 'Karta Purakh'. That is why, as stated in 'Mool Mantra' 'Gurparsadi' is needed. Kirt, Jaap, Wandshakna and Seva Sambhal, are the basic Sikh ways to purifiy oneself. On one can do it sitting at home.

    With Love and respect for all.

    Amarpal
     
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  6. sadhu

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    I would like to add that saadh, sant, brahamgyani all words define the same state of being, they mean the one who has transended the holy books, the one who has transended his five vikaaras, and has merged in the eternal.

    Its true that these kind of individuals are very rare, but that does not mean that they dont exist. If you are a true seeker, you will definitely be able to find a true sadhu, if your search is authentic you will definitely find an authentic being, because only an authentic master can satisfy an authentic search, but if your search is not true, if your search is false and merely philosophical then there are many false sadhus out there who will exploit you. If your thirst is false then merely a photo of water can satisfy you or merely a photo of a pond can satisfy you, but if your thirst is real and authentic then you will be not be satisfied untill you actually drink water.

    If you are really seeking god, then for sure, you will end up in the company of a true master. But if your search for god is merely philosophical and just to aquire some better words and concepts, you will miss it.

    ONCE there was a blind man who talked about light, he talked about properties of light, he even debated upon the topic of light, he had merely heard some words and some concepts about light, but never seen the light as he was blind. He thought that he knew a lot about light, he thought that he was a great scholar, and he felt great pride. People around him respected him as they too were blind, infact the whole village was of blind people.

    The blind man and the villagers had never experienced light, and yet they talked a lot about light. All of us are just in the same condition, we talk a lot about god, but we dont have any experience of it as yet, and there are many religious leaders who give lectures on god but they themselves have never experienced god.

    So if you just want to merely have new concepts and words about light then their are many false gurus who can satisfy you, but if you really want to see what light really is then you will end up in the company of an able master, who will not talk about light, but will work on your eyes. The real master works on the consciousness of the disciple, and once the consciousness reaches its ultimate flowering, the disciple experiences god within and outside. The real master does not tells you what light is, but he makes your eyes capable of seeing and experiencing light. The real master gives you techniques and methods to experience god, he does not talk about god much. His main point of concern is your eyes not the light, his main aim is to make you able to experience god, to be god, to experience the ultimate blissfullness, to experience the ultimate ecstacy, to merge in the eternal.
     
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  7. spnadmin

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    The real master works on the consciousness of the disciple, and once the consciousness reaches its ultimate flowering, the disciple experiences god within and outside. The real master does not tells you what light is, but he makes your eyes capable of seeing and experiencing light. The real master gives you techniques and methods to experience god, he does not talk about god much. His main point of concern is your eyes not the light, his main aim is to make you able to experience god, to be god, to experience the ultimate blissfullness, to experience the ultimate ecstacy, to merge in the eternal. by sahdu

    What you are describing could also be brainwashing by a clever egomaniac. The answer to all of this is in sukhmani Sahib.

    Be careful of ecstasy brought to you by another human being. Too many people, penniless and alienated from their families, are wandering the streets in a daze muttering to themselves and eating the garbage of restaurants and wearing clothes soaked in grime and rain, while living in the vestibules of buildings in dangerous neighborhoods -- because they accepted the egotism of another person and believed it was going to bring them to ecstasy.
     
  8. Archived_Member5

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    Being a part of thee saadh sangat of company of the saintly and pious souls is indeed truly a blessing. By their mere presence ne is inspired to a higher sense of perception, thinking, interacting and living. The mind, heart and spirit are fortified by the company of such pure and wholesome souls, and should one be afflicted with any malady, the dulcet soothing words and mantras of the saadhs are extremely comforting. Some are imbued with tranquillity by being before and breathing the very air they breathe.

    Indeed one has to be aware, these goodly souls attract a virulent type of groupie who thereafter expends much time warding off truth and salvation seekers to sustain its own status and position. If this were no so, then assuredly we would in our spare time and weekends spend our leisure periods nowhere but the Gur de Dwars where such saadhs are found and exalted...

    The tranquil bliss gained from the shedding of ones fears, worries, discomfiture and perplexity is commonly known as rapture or awakening of the sensory spirit. It is a beautiful journey to jiwan mukhti, as long as one remains mindful of the pitfalls, perils and distractions en route.

    Amidst the saadh sangat ones ego naturally ebbs when viewing the beauty, virtue and high mindedness of the company of the good. As to being confined to one room and gaining Jiwan Mukhti, spiritual universal consciousness yes, the Guru specifies many times the ‘’Man me mil kar jkaaj savaarna’. Many find the universal realm within the echelon of their imagination. Also blessed are they who gain the company of the saints and community. Many desire high positions, popularity, laud and glory, whilst the good seek but to nourish a soul dangerously exposed to demise in confinement ..

    Karmi apno apni .. :Missy: :locked: :support: WaheGuru Ji ...
     
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  9. sadhu

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    You call it "brain-washing", well you have just got it right. In the company of a sant not only the brain is washed and cleansed, but the mind is washed, the ego of the person is washed, the garbage of kaam, krodh, lobh, and moh is washed, the pain and the misery is washed, and everything that is impure is washed and clensed. Because the sant himself is like a river, you sit with him, and his flow of energy starts flowing around you. This energy clenses everybody who are sitting close to the sant.
    This cleansing happens on its own, just the mere presence of the saint clenses the inner consciousness of the ones who are around.

    Then you call a sant a "clever egomaniac", He definitely does not have the ego, infact the word sant means the one who has trascended ego and mind. The sant is no more a wave in the oceanic god, he has become an ocean himself, as his wave of consciousness has dissolved into the ocean, he has become one with the ocean, he has become one with the eternal. His ego my friend, died long long time ago, he is just an infinite emptiness, and ego cannot exist in emptiness, it needs something to cling to.

    Gurugranth sahib
    ang 272


    ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਕੈ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਸਤ੍ਰੁ ਸਮਾਨਿ ॥
    breham giaanee kai mithr sathra samaan ||
    To the God-conscious being, friend and foe are the same.
    16 Gaurhee Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev

    ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਕੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਅਭਿਮਾਨ ॥
    breham giaanee kai naahee abhimaan ||
    The God-conscious being has no egotistical pride.
    16 Gaurhee Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev





     
  10. spnadmin

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    Just my 2 cents! :woohoo:
     
  11. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    The "SAADH" is the %%%%% that sits INSIDE YOU.
    Its "HIS" SANGAT that...fulfills ALL whats been said in Gurbani tuks in the Jeetinder Mailing.

    Its been said..and accepted..that IF you cannot "see" GOD IN ALL .......you cannot see God AT ALL...BUT FIRST you have to SEE GOD within YOURSELF...Gereeban meh dekh..LOOK WITHIN.

    Gurbani stresses the Company of the HOLY...CONGREGATION....not "individual saadhs..sants..Brahmgianis...whatever"
    SANGAT...PANGAT..are RELATED Vocabulary from Guru Times...Guru Amardass Ji insisted on..PELEH PANGAT..PEECHEH SANGAT. Meaning first FOOD Langgar in PANGAT ( body) ......then SHABAD LANGGAR in SANGAT.(SOUL/MANN).
    This makes clear that the CONGREGATION is the one that is important.

    This is WHY..Gurbani of 1430 pages doesnt include any Names or reccomendations of any indiividual snats saadhs brahmgianis etc...and Neither does Sikh Historicla Traditions of GURU CONTEMPORARIES like Bhai Gurdass Ji or Even others like the writers of Gurbilas, Suraj parkash Panth parkash etc etc. NO SINGLE INDIVIDUAL has ever been even "Mentioned" much less reccommended as ESSENTIAL...for ones spiritual improvement..blah blah blah... ONLY the SAADH-SANGAT-PANGAT aspect of CONGREGATIONAL WORSHIP is stressed and was carried out by the GURUS. The Drabar was of the GURUS...there is no mention that any "sikhs" went to Baba Buddha Ji or Bhai gurdass Ji etc for "company of the "HOLY" ??? The ONLY "Company of the HOlY" was in the Presence of the GURU ( NOW SGGS ) in the form of the CONGREGATION - the One and ONLY correct interpretation of SAADH SANGAT/SATSANGAT/SATSANG.

    It is an established fact that the "qualities" and attributes of the Saadh/sant/Brahmgiani/are in fact qualities and attributes of Akal Purakh. No human being can attain those status.
    Just like the "MOHAN" shabd in Gurbani has been grossly misinterpreted and applied to mean the Individual called MOHAN - son of Guru Amardass Ji supposedly keeper of the Gurbani Pothis of the Gurus - and that Guru Arjun Ji had to beg the pothis of Guru nanak Ji/Guru Angad Ji and Guru Amardass Ji from him in order to compile the Aad Granth sahib ( historically incorrect as the pothis were passed on to the following GURU by the Predecessor Guru at GURTAGADEE - otherwise it is ludicrous that the GURU wrote Gurbani and didnt pass it to his successor..but was careless and kept it aside for his sons !!..while the Actual GURU just got a Coconut and matha tek 5 cents ??). ANYWAY the Mohan Shabads so clearly spell out the Qualities of AKAL PURAKH..but some keep on insisting thse are "qualities of the Super Mohan" and Guru Ji is lavishing false praise on him just to make him happy so he will surrender the gurbani pothis. This is just one HISTORICAL instance whereby GURBANI VOCABULARY is wrongly attributed to "humans" when it means the CREATOR. Similarly the same vocabulary of Saadh/Sant/Brahmgiani is for the CREATOR.....and NOT INDIVIDUALS.

    2. Secondly as Amarpal ji stated..the true "spiritual leader" not only GAINS "KNOWLEDGE" but more importantly also GIVES NEW KNOWLEDGE - as the Sikh GURUS did in the SGGS. The TRUE GURU/SATGUR..is not only the PARAS..but CREATES OTHER "PARASES" !!! not simply turning other s into GOLD !!..the TRUE SATGUR is the PARAS FACTORY....manufacturing PARASES !!! How many "factories" manufacture "Factories " ?? Almost ALL factories manufacture "GOODS"....therein lies the vital difference....Guur Nanak ji the Paras made Bhai lehana into PARAS.and so on....ultimately the PARAS SGGS installed on the same Gurgadee of Guru nanak Ji.:amillanbliss: end your running about ......the Destination is SGGS.:welcome:
     
  12. sadhu

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    First of all gurunanak himself was a brahamgyani, a sadhu, a sant or whatever you want to call him, and then how do you know that he had no time for sadhus???
    Were you present at that time?



    Who told you that the energy around a sant is magnetic energy??? because i never said that.
    But then if you like an MRI, then you are free to enjoy its energy, the energy around the sant is not magnetic, it is very very subtle, you have to be there, in order to know what it is.



    This guy is a sant. You can keep on thinking about what a sant is, but unless you really see him with your eyes, you will never know even one iota about his beauty. And sant is the one who has become one with the infinite, and there is nothing more than infinity, his disciples do reach this state, but there is nothing more than infinity, because its actually impossible. There is nothing outside the infinite god to achieve, god is the ultimate achievement. God is the ultimate attainment, because there is no such thing as outside of god, everything is within this infinite consciousness.
     
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  13. spnadmin

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    First of all gurunanak himself was a brahamgyani, a sadhu, a sant or whatever you want to call him, and then how do you know that he had no time for sadhus???
    Were you present at that time?

    sadhu ji

    I cannot do better than Gyani Jarnail in his reply to you. :up: But Guru Nanak was very clear in Sidh Gosht. :star: Extremely clear.
     
  14. sadhu

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    at giani jarnail singh ji

    Giani ji,
    You came to this conclusion, that the sant, sadh or brahamgyani mentioned in gurugranth sahib are names for god, just because the names of particular sants are not recomended or mentioned?
    Its like a holy book tells you to visit a doctor when you are ill, and you come to the conclusion that just because particular names of the doctors are not reccomended, the holy book is actually saying visit a "superman" when you are ill.

    The particular names are not recomended, so that people dont come to conclusions, that A,B,C are the only saints, on earth. SO that the people dont become prejudiced about saints, so that the people can have a broad view of saintlyhood. Because a sant can be in any religion, in any race, in any period of time, nobody can declare that only A,B,C are the true saints, so the names are not recomended in gurbani.



    It is true that qualities of sant, sadh, brahamgyani are the qualities of akal purakh,
    but how did the human beings came to know about these qualities of akal purakh? because akal purakh never himself came and said "hey people these are my qualities".
    The sants, the sadhus, the brahamgyanis, who had experienced akal purakh are the ones who told the humanity, the true qualities of akal purakh. Because they had experienced akal purakh within their inner consciousness. Just like we experience our breath, our heart beat, our consciousness within oursleves, they had experienced the infinite god within themselves. They had become one with the akal purakh.
    So you are wrong when you say that no human being can attain the status of god. Because unless you become one with the akal purakh, unless you completely dissolve in the eternal, you can never know the qualities of akal purakh. Because the eternal is not outside, you can never ever talk to him, he will never ever tell you things or his qualities, because he is not a person. It is the supreme consciousness that pervades all from within. You will have to become one with this supreme consciousness in order to understand its qualities.

     
  15. spnadmin

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    sadhu ji

    Why then do so many of them tell us so many irreconcilably different things?
     
  16. sadhu

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    Every sant has attained god by his own method, the methods are many, the paths are many, and every sant talks about the way he himself has attained. As there are different ways to attain, different sants talk about different ways, so they sound contradictory sometimes.
    Budha attained through meditation, Gurunanak and the ten gurus attained through love, Rishi Patanjali attained through yoga and introspection, Rumi{persian saint} attained through love and meditation, Mira attained by idol worship, Bulley Shah attained through the devotion for his master.
    The ways are many, but the destination is one, and i have never heard a sadhu saying something about god, which some other sadhu does not agrees with, because both are at the same plane of consciousness. THE JOT IS THE SAME in both of them, infact the jot is the same in every sadhu who has attained.
    The ways to reach can be very contradictory, for example you can hold your ear from the back side as well as from the front side, the ear is the same, but the methods to get a hold of it seem contradictory.

    It does not really matter that by which method one has attained, the thing that matters is that the person has actually attained.
     
  17. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    sant saadh brahmgyani..are NOT "names" of Akal Purakh. Please read my message again.

    There are Names mentioned in SGGS..Name of Guru Nanak Ji, Guru Angad Ji, Guru Amardass Ji, Guru ramdass Ji, Guru Arjun Ji..the Various BHAGATS..Sheikhs...BUT ALL are contributors to the Gurbani of SGGS....that which CREATES PARAS...not "manufactured goods only"....and thsi is NOW the GURU. Period.

    Anyone is free to follow whatever and whomsoever...BUT a SIKH will NOT follow anyone except the TRUE SATGUR......SGGS. The SIKH is not interested in anyone else.:welcome:
     
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  18. Archived_Member5

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    There are few so called irreconcilable differences in scriptures not readily clarified by the wise, unbiased and learned. {A sweeping condemnation of Saadhu’s borders upon the absurd, given the many prevailing lesser mortals masquerading as aggrandised sophisticates and religious sycophants.} What is Saadh Sangat but a commune of the spiritually enlightened bound as one in spirit, thought and will. A Sangat, religion or fellowship is as successful as the ability of its leader to alight a path of liberty, peace and unity. Religions are educational doctrines aiming to indoctrinate their society with values and principles that forge kinship whilst allowing personal growth and learning. All such soul searching is conducted most proficiently when all are respectful and mindful of the sentiments of others. This does in no way imply a tolerance of arrogance, boorishness or a lowering of standards to accommodate the lesser in fortitude and morality. Voice and leadership must always be pure, pavitar, sacred as any such corruption or incongruity will distort and marr teachings that are otherwise perfect and sound.

    I cannot think of any sangat, community, society or peoples considered greater than their creator. A nation and its citizens are judges by the wise by their treatment of their parents and elders. Its a good rule and indicator.

    There are times in a mortals life, where life itself is worthless and devoid of purpose or meaning, a waste of breath, and many at this juncture have passed on, dispirited by this one fact, that is as readily proven as it is falsified. Such is the nature of parable and data....

    There are times one feels mankind cannot be perfected, that none can possibly attain the sacred sanctity of the pure and illumined God consciousness. This is a primary stage for the truth seeker and is indicative more of a personal state of mind than any bearing with reality, where such golden goodness is discerned in the peaceful faces of all we meet. The SGGS is an ocean, a treasure trove of many pearls, jewels and gems. One cannot depict a quantitative as the quantum Absolute Truth by the measure of one sentence. ...


    :shutup: :idea: :star:
     
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