If There Is A God

[Ishna]

*mutters* Damned westerners with their damned rational thinking... *shakes head*

 

[namritanevaeh]

if you were spiritual, your question would be: how do i pray to God. how do it proceed further. it is all with humility to know something. simply saying that i am spiritual does not make one spiritual. In the west where you live the code of conduct which were born with and lost with time is called the spirituality. In the east the spirituality is the trial and process and practice with love and devotion to unit with the master is called spirituality.

Well I stand by what I said. You speak of humility but I see none. Your comments come across as "we're holier than you are/better than you are because of how we do things in the east".

i was not humorous because the way you put your question indicated that you are thinking the way the westerns think. that is what felt and that is why i was harsh to answer your question. sorry for any wrong feelings if i created as such

"of, relating to, or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.
"I'm responsible for his spiritual welfare"
synonyms: nonmaterial, incorporeal, intangible;"

That is an online definition of spiritual. One of them, anyhow. I'm a very humanitarian person, not affected much by material objects. I identify well with the idea of sewa within Sikhi, though other parts of it don't suit me as well.

As for a god? Part of the reason my post is titled "if there is a god" is because I don't personally believe that it is a cut and dried thing that is definite. It's possible there is one. And in my opinion it's possible there is not.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

great post ji,

Cleaning shoes at gurdwara...to gain knowledge? i've never heard of this...
cleaning shoes is a sure way to kill ones ego and propel you closer to waheguru like nothing else...
cleaning shoes whilst friends and family look on you like "what the hell is he doing"...and you battle your own mind (ego) which tells you "you're embarassaing yourself, stop cleaning shoes...your better than that, everyones looking at you"

Chaz Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

I have no idea how much you know about the Jori Ghar in the Gurdwaras in India including Harmander Sahib in Amritsar. This is a special place unlike in the west where people put their shoes on the shelves by themselves.

The sevadaars take special pride in India where a ticket is given to the person who leaves the shoes there. Many of these sevadaars wipe and clean the shoes. It is a normal and a noble practice and a very important one.

 

[namritanevaeh]

Guru Fateh.

I have no idea how much you know about the Jori Ghar in the Gurdwaras in India including Harmander Sahib in Amritsar. This is a special place unlike in the west where people put their shoes on the shelves by themselves.

The sevadaars take special pride in India where a ticket is given to the person who leaves the shoes there. Many of these sevadaars wipe and clean the shoes. It is a normal and a noble practice and a very important one.

cool, thanks for telling me about this! It's like a coat check.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

cool, thanks for telling me about this! It's like a coat check.

Not really. One gets the shoes back that have been cleaned/polished.

 

[swarn bains]

different people have different views about touching some one's feet.
the intelligence is in the brain, that makes a person proud. now look at the water; the heavy things go down to the bottom. look at the wind; the heavy things fall to the ground. let us say that the knowledge also follows that system. that means there is some divine knowledge in the feet or around the feet of a divine person. firstly one who bends down to touch some one's feet loses his pride, means it is a act of humility. there are four functions to become divine, humble, devotion and love but the biggest of all is the guru. touching the feet of some one with divine knowledge brings in humility as well as they say attains some knowledge depending up the devotion of the person who touches some one's feet. as they say the spirituality is only learnt through above process. it cannot be taught but guided. last for a sikh to raise a question about touching someone's feet is some thing like western influence or rich. The rich does not miss God. he does not need to because his need s are fulfilled. only people who pray or miss God are those either poor who does not get to eat or some one with previously earned credits.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

different people have different views about touching some one's feet.
the intelligence is in the brain, that makes a person proud. now look at the water; the heavy things go down to the bottom. look at the wind; the heavy things fall to the ground. let us say that the knowledge also follows that system. that means there is some divine knowledge in the feet or around the feet of a divine person. firstly one who bends down to touch some one's feet loses his pride, means it is a act of humility. there are four functions to become divine, humble, devotion and love but the biggest of all is the guru. touching the feet of some one with divine knowledge brings in humility as well as they say attains some knowledge depending up the devotion of the person who touches some one's feet. as they say the spirituality is only learnt through above process. it cannot be taught but guided. last for a sikh to raise a question about touching someone's feet is some thing like western influence or rich. The rich does not miss God. he does not need to because his need s are fulfilled. only people who pray or miss God are those either poor who does not get to eat or some one with previously earned credits.

Gravity???

 

[swarn bains]

Page 410
this s for the scholar who objects to touching guru’s feet

ਆਸਾਵਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
Āsāvarī mėhlā 5.
Aasaavaree, Fifth Mehl:

ਮਿਲਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਸੁ ਗਾਈਐ ਹਾਂ ॥
Mil har jas gā▫ī▫ai hāʼn.
Meeting together, let us sing the Praises of the Lord,

ਪਰਮ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਹਾਂ ॥
Param paḏ pā▫ī▫ai hāʼn.
and attain the supreme state.

ਉਆ ਰਸ ਜੋ ਬਿਧੇ ਹਾਂ ॥
U▫ā ras jo biḏẖe hāʼn.
Those who obtain that sublime essence,

ਤਾ ਕਉ ਸਗਲ ਸਿਧੇ ਹਾਂ ॥
Ŧā ka▫o sagal siḏẖe hāʼn.
obtain all of the spiritual powers of the Siddhas.

ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਜਾਗਿਆ ਹਾਂ ॥
An▫ḏin jāgi▫ā hāʼn.
They remain awake and aware night and day;

ਨਾਨਕ ਬਡਭਾਗਿਆ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Nānak badbẖāgi▫ā mere manā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Nanak, they are blessed by great good fortune, O my mind. ||1||Pause||

ਸੰਤ ਪਗ ਧੋਈਐ ਹਾਂ ॥
Sanṯ pag ḏẖo▫ī▫ai hāʼn.
Let us wash the feet of the Saints;

ਦੁਰਮਤਿ ਖੋਈਐ ਹਾਂ ॥
Ḏurmaṯ kẖo▫ī▫ai hāʼn.
our evil-mindedness shall be cleansed.

ਦਾਸਹ ਰੇਨੁ ਹੋਇ ਹਾਂ ॥
Ḏāsah ren ho▫e hāʼn.
Becoming the dust of the feet of the Lord's slaves,

ਬਿਆਪੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ਹਾਂ ॥
Bi▫āpai ḏukẖ na ko▫e hāʼn.
one shall not be afflicted with pain.

ਭਗਤਾਂ ਸਰਨਿ ਪਰੁ ਹਾਂ ॥
Bẖagṯāʼn saran par hāʼn.
Taking to the Sanctuary of His devotees,

ਜਨਮਿ ਨ ਕਦੇ ਮਰੁ ਹਾਂ ॥
Janam na kaḏe mar hāʼn.
he is no longer subject to birth and death.

ਅਸਥਿਰੁ ਸੇ ਭਏ ਹਾਂ ॥
Asthir se bẖa▫e hāʼn.
They alone become eternal,

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਜਪਿ ਲਏ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨਾ ॥੧॥
Har har jinĥ jap la▫e mere manā. ||1||
who chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, O my mind. ||1||

ਸਾਜਨੁ ਮੀਤੁ ਤੂੰ ਹਾਂ ॥
Sājan mīṯ ṯūʼn hāʼn.
You are my Friend, my Best Friend.

ਨਾਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਇ ਮੂੰ ਹਾਂ ॥
Nām driṛ▫ā▫e mūʼn hāʼn.
Please, implant the Naam, the Name of the Lord, within me.

ਤਿਸੁ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਹਿ ਕੋਇ ਹਾਂ ॥
Ŧis bin nāhi ko▫e hāʼn.
Without Him, there is not any other.

ਮਨਹਿ ਅਰਾਧਿ ਸੋਇ ਹਾਂ ॥
Manėh arāḏẖ so▫e hāʼn.
Within my mind, I worship Him in adoration.

ਨਿਮਖ ਨ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਹਾਂ ॥
Nimakẖ na vīsrai hāʼn.
I do not forget Him, even for an instant.

ਤਿਸੁ ਬਿਨੁ ਕਿਉ ਸਰੈ ਹਾਂ ॥
Ŧis bin ki▫o sarai hāʼn.
How can I live without Him?

ਗੁਰ ਕਉ ਕੁਰਬਾਨੁ ਜਾਉ ਹਾਂ ॥
Gur ka▫o kurbān jā▫o hāʼn.
I am a sacrifice to the Guru.

ਨਾਨਕੁ ਜਪੇ ਨਾਉ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨਾ ॥੨॥੫॥੧੬੧॥
Nānak jape nā▫o mere manā. ||2||5||161||
Nanak, chant the Name, O my mind. ||2||5||161||
​

Edited to add full shabad. -Ishna

 

[Ishna]

Since Guru Sahib Ji is ultimately Prabh itself, described as best one can through our Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj, where are the Guru's feet that we should be touching, @swarn bains ji?

Why isn't there a more visible expression of feet washing throughout Sikh history?

Why aren't people lining up to wash the feet of the Gyanis and kirtanees in our Gurdwara Sahibs?

Genuine questions.

Additionally, I'm not sure I've seen Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji describe that spiritual knowledge or wisdom is literally contained in the feet of people. Where does this notion come from? It sounds like pseudoscience, and an attempt to justify an otherwise random physical ritual. If one understands the real reason for such an action, then a pseudoscientific justification is irrelevant. The idea of giving respect to Saints, acknowledging their level of humility and making yourself humble is all the justification required.

 

[namritanevaeh]

Not really. One gets the shoes back that have been cleaned/polished.

You get your coat back too from a coat check...at the end of the evening when you leave, anyhow.

 

[namritanevaeh]

last for a sikh to raise a question about touching someone's feet is some thing like western influence or rich. The rich does not miss God. he does not need to because his need s are fulfilled. only people who pray or miss God are those either poor who does not get to eat or some one with previously earned credits.

The idea of having knowledge in your feet, or any other part of your body, can make some amount of sense. To an extent.

Personally I could care less what people touch and find holy. I was addressing what I considered a bit of a double standard, if it is on the one hand ok to clean shoes and touch feet some places but not ok to turn your feet towards ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ and some other areas where I have an idea that people are trying to insinuate that feet are dirtier than other things like your head or hands maybe.

 

[namritanevaeh]

Additionally, I'm not sure I've seen Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji describe that spiritual knowledge or wisdom is literally contained in the feet of people. Where does this notion come from? It sounds like pseudoscience, and an attempt to justify an otherwise random physical ritual. If one understands the real reason for such an action, then a pseudoscientific justification is irrelevant. The idea of giving respect to Saints, acknowledging their level of humility and making yourself humble is all the justification required.

I agree it sounds like pseudoscience. Honestly there's a lot of things that people do that strike me as empty rituels at times. What I also find fascinating is how for example Wicca says that rituels are important. And I doubt they'd label many of them empty, because if something feels right to you and you do it for that reason why should it be meaningless, even if to the next person over, it's perhaps meaningless? Where it becomes a problem I think is if you are insisting that someone else should do the same thing you do, even if it doesn't feel right to them.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Page 410
this s for the scholar who objects to touching guru’s feet

ਆਸਾਵਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
Āsāvarī mėhlā 5.
Aasaavaree, Fifth Mehl:

ਮਿਲਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਸੁ ਗਾਈਐ ਹਾਂ ॥
Mil har jas gā▫ī▫ai hāʼn.
Meeting together, let us sing the Praises of the Lord,

ਪਰਮ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਹਾਂ ॥
Param paḏ pā▫ī▫ai hāʼn.
and attain the supreme state.

ਉਆ ਰਸ ਜੋ ਬਿਧੇ ਹਾਂ ॥
U▫ā ras jo biḏẖe hāʼn.
Those who obtain that sublime essence,

ਤਾ ਕਉ ਸਗਲ ਸਿਧੇ ਹਾਂ ॥
Ŧā ka▫o sagal siḏẖe hāʼn.
obtain all of the spiritual powers of the Siddhas.

ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਜਾਗਿਆ ਹਾਂ ॥
An▫ḏin jāgi▫ā hāʼn.
They remain awake and aware night and day;

ਨਾਨਕ ਬਡਭਾਗਿਆ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Nānak badbẖāgi▫ā mere manā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Nanak, they are blessed by great good fortune, O my mind. ||1||Pause||

ਸੰਤ ਪਗ ਧੋਈਐ ਹਾਂ ॥
Sanṯ pag ḏẖo▫ī▫ai hāʼn.
Let us wash the feet of the Saints;

ਦੁਰਮਤਿ ਖੋਈਐ ਹਾਂ ॥
Ḏurmaṯ kẖo▫ī▫ai hāʼn.
our evil-mindedness shall be cleansed.

ਦਾਸਹ ਰੇਨੁ ਹੋਇ ਹਾਂ ॥
Ḏāsah ren ho▫e hāʼn.
Becoming the dust of the feet of the Lord's slaves,

ਬਿਆਪੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ਹਾਂ ॥
Bi▫āpai ḏukẖ na ko▫e hāʼn.
one shall not be afflicted with pain.

ਭਗਤਾਂ ਸਰਨਿ ਪਰੁ ਹਾਂ ॥
Bẖagṯāʼn saran par hāʼn.
Taking to the Sanctuary of His devotees,

ਜਨਮਿ ਨ ਕਦੇ ਮਰੁ ਹਾਂ ॥
Janam na kaḏe mar hāʼn.
he is no longer subject to birth and death.

ਅਸਥਿਰੁ ਸੇ ਭਏ ਹਾਂ ॥
Asthir se bẖa▫e hāʼn.
They alone become eternal,

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਜਪਿ ਲਏ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨਾ ॥੧॥
Har har jinĥ jap la▫e mere manā. ||1||
who chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, O my mind. ||1||

ਸਾਜਨੁ ਮੀਤੁ ਤੂੰ ਹਾਂ ॥
Sājan mīṯ ṯūʼn hāʼn.
You are my Friend, my Best Friend.

ਨਾਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਇ ਮੂੰ ਹਾਂ ॥
Nām driṛ▫ā▫e mūʼn hāʼn.
Please, implant the Naam, the Name of the Lord, within me.

ਤਿਸੁ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਹਿ ਕੋਇ ਹਾਂ ॥
Ŧis bin nāhi ko▫e hāʼn.
Without Him, there is not any other.

ਮਨਹਿ ਅਰਾਧਿ ਸੋਇ ਹਾਂ ॥
Manėh arāḏẖ so▫e hāʼn.
Within my mind, I worship Him in adoration.

ਨਿਮਖ ਨ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਹਾਂ ॥
Nimakẖ na vīsrai hāʼn.
I do not forget Him, even for an instant.

ਤਿਸੁ ਬਿਨੁ ਕਿਉ ਸਰੈ ਹਾਂ ॥
Ŧis bin ki▫o sarai hāʼn.
How can I live without Him?

ਗੁਰ ਕਉ ਕੁਰਬਾਨੁ ਜਾਉ ਹਾਂ ॥
Gur ka▫o kurbān jā▫o hāʼn.
I am a sacrifice to the Guru.

ਨਾਨਕੁ ਜਪੇ ਨਾਉ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨਾ ॥੨॥੫॥੧੬੧॥
Nānak jape nā▫o mere manā. ||2||5||161||
Nanak, chant the Name, O my mind. ||2||5||161||
​

Edited to add full shabad. -Ishna

Who is that scholar you claim?

 

[Tejwant Singh]

You get your coat back too from a coat check...at the end of the evening when you leave, anyhow.

But you do not get it back dry cleaned. You get it back the way you dropped it, with stains.

This is not the case in Jhori Ghar where your shoes are cleaned and polished before handing over back to you.

 

[Sikh Warrior Light]

Wow. Much ado about nothing. We are all seekers. We have touched feet AND declined to touch feet in our paths. It is a path and it is yours. If you find coat checks a bother then don't coat check. Just jump in the cold shower without testing waters first. Some like it that way.

 

[namritanevaeh]

But you do not get it back dry cleaned. You get it back the way you dropped it, with stains.

This is not the case in Jhori Ghar where your shoes are cleaned and polished before handing over back to you.

Aah I didn't quite realize that was what you meant!

 

[namritanevaeh]

Wow. Much ado about nothing. We are all seekers. We have touched feet AND declined to touch feet in our paths. It is a path and it is yours. If you find coat checks a bother then don't coat check. Just jump in the cold shower without testing waters first. Some like it that way.

Did you read what I wrote earlier? I don't mind touching feet. I don't have hang ups about feet actually unlike some people I come across. As I don't have a problem with coat checks either.

I was addressing why feet are both ok to touch and yet not ok to turn towards ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ. It had nothing to do with coat checks originally.