General How I Feel Not Being Able To Go To Gurdwara

[Randip Singh]

also smells of BIAS, taking into account which mod deleted my post.

If you think there is bias then take it up with the SPN team.

Thanks

 

[Randip Singh]

We definitely need to avoid the Guru Ninda. We will all try to be patient with others as well.

Now this concept of "Nindia" I find very interesting. Do we need a Nindia Police force to route out people who commit alleged Nindia?

Lets analyse this entire post and the rational behind it. It starts with a non-verifiable Sakhi. Anyone who has studied Sikhi or Sikh History knows there are a whole raft of Sakhi that have been written after the demise of the Guru's, that were not written by contemporaries. Some of these were written to create mischief, and others as metaphors and some as a genuine account of what travels the Guru's undertook.

Therefore if someone criticises a Sakhi that may not be verifiable, or may contain concepts Alien to Sikh thought is it to be construed as Nindia? Where should the Nindia Police start and begin? Should the Nindia Police have an idea firstly of what constitutes actual Sakhi and what is just hearsay? Also does criticism of interpretation constitute Nindia, because if it does I am definitely a guilty of Nindia.

Lets look at some facts:

1) The Guru's in no way through action or deeds carried or condoned miracle making. There are quotes from Bani that verify this.

2) The Guru's had a deep understanding of the Universe and Nature, and they understood that interference unnaturally with it can case real problems.

3) There seems to be a competition with Sikhism at the moment with Semitic religions, where in Semitic faiths, people rise from the dead, seas are parted, and water is turned into wine. I say stay true to the Guru's message and don't get involved in this competition. The Guru's fought in the harsh daylight of reality, sacrificing their own lives and that of their children for Truth, Justice, and Freedom. They did not part seas, they did not rise up people from the dead, and they did not turn water into wine. They accepted God's will and tried to change what was humanly possible to change.

4) A point to note also, the Guru's were well educated individuals who understood Science too, and small medical achievements (which may have seen like miracles for the common man), were not beyond their capability.

 

[spnadmin]

Randip

Your question regarding the Nindia Police -- right on!

My personal experiences with Sikhism in real time include two awe-inspiring qualities of gentility and open-mindedness. The ability to give others the time and the room to think about something and make sense of it. No Sikh in real-life has ever jumped on me or my words in irritation. Always a smile, a question, and a reflective answer. The Guru's discouraged dependence on miracles. The stories about the miracles and the Guru's have meaning at many levels.

 

[Randip Singh]

Randip
Your question regarding the Nindia Police -- right on!

This worries me. It seems like we're getting close to Sharia. The "Behzti" incident in the UK for me highlighted how the "Nindia Police" can behave in a such a despicable manner that the alleged Nindia fades into insignificance.

Now an incident such as that of the Behzti affair, how would the Guru's have handled it? My view is this:
They would have set up a communal kitchen outside.

This kitchen would have fed and watered theatre goers and distributed leaflets how this play was undermining the Sikh community.

This peaceful protest would have caught the public imagination and it could have been publicised.

Instead the Nindia Police used violence and the entire Sikh community was maligned.

My personal experiences with Sikhism in real time include two awe-inspiring qualities of gentility and open-mindedness. The ability to give others the time and the room to think about something and make sense of it. No Sikh in real-life has ever jumped on me or my words in irritation. Always a smile, a question, and a reflective answer. The Guru's discouraged dependence on miracles. The stories about the miracles and the Guru's have meaning at many levels.

So true. Sikhism is a very forward looking faith and a message that hangs true for each and everyone one of us as we run around in todays rat race.​

 

[spnadmin]

Randip ji,

Again you raise so many meaningful images of the alternatives to anger and self-righteous. Sikhism tells us we are learners. To be a teacher we have to be learners first. Think before we speak, question before we answer, consider other ways of making our ideas clear and convincing. Try different ways to speak our minds -- and not always with speeches and lectures.

Why this "sharia" pattern is coming through I do not know. But it is happening everywhere in many religions. Not just Sikhism. It does worry me too.

 

[Singhstah]

Randip Singh ji, if you look at my posts I have made it clear that I personally have no problems whatsoever with people doubting sakhis and making innocent attempts at working out what is right and wrong.
What I do have a problem with however, is people poking fun at what some others do regard as sacred, especially when it is concerning Guroo Sahib.
In this particular case, some of the people on this thread felt they had just read one of the many great sakhis of Guroo Sahib's life, while others felt they read something which was false and was unneccessary. This is all fine.
However, also in this thread, a poster made a comparison to Harry Potter, and called it better reading. All for a cheap laugh, that would only upset those who believe in the sakhi.This is not fine.


I also dont understand, my respected bhai sahib ji, how can you say what Guroo Sahib would do in the behzti incident? What I do understand, is that Guroo Sahib gave his power to the Khalsa Panth, and the physical arm of Sikhi at the moment lies in the Khalsa.

Our very existence and beliefs malign us immdiatley, that doesnt mean we change just so we "look good". People as soon as they find out we cant cut our kesh, we cant do alcohol and drugs, they think omg what backward people, they follow such silly things. So freakin what.
Guroo Di Ninda sune na kan, i only care about my Guroo Sahib.

 

[BhagatSingh]

However, also in this thread, a poster made a comparison to Harry Potter, and called it better reading.

Well, comparing two things isn't insulting either of the things. Poster simply stated that the sakhi was fantasy and there were better fantasy stories out there.

All for a cheap laugh, that would only upset those who believe in the sakhi.This is not fine.

I don't think anyone laughed at the poster's comment.
You got upset because you have blind faith. blind faith is not what Sikhi is based on.

Our very existence and beliefs malign us immdiatley, that doesnt mean we change just so we "look good". People as soon as they find out we cant cut our kesh, we cant do alcohol and drugs, they think omg what backward people, they follow such silly things. So freakin what.

So you think not cutting hair etc is silly? And you do those things because you don't care if they are silly? So being a non-smoker/ alcoholic and being in tune with nature is silly?
You seriously need to do some research.

Guru Sahib's message was based on logic not fantasy. Maybe reading other Sakhis can help you understand this.

 

[Singhstah]

Well, comparing two things isn't insulting either of the things. Poster simply stated that the sakhi was fantasy and there were better fantasy stories out there.

I don't think anyone laughed at the poster's comment.
You got upset because you have blind faith. blind faith is not what Sikhi is based on.


So you think not cutting hair etc is silly? And you do those things because you don't care if they are silly? So being a non-smoker/ alcoholic and being in tune with nature is silly?
You seriously need to do some research.

Guru Sahib's message was based on logic not fantasy. Maybe reading other Sakhis can help you understand this.

actually I was referring to the mindset of non-sikh people when they find out about what we believe in. Trust me, I most definetly know why these amazing gifts were given to us by Guroo Sahib and they are the complete opposite of silly, however non-sikhs usually find it funny that we abstain from such things, I said I dont care that other people react this way.

You have to be kidding me if you seriously believe an insult such as the comparison to Harry Potter was a valid argument.
It was a cheap and CHILDISH shot at people who believe in the sakhi, and people should be more sensitive of others feelings. Maybe if you brought to mind a sakhi you actually believe and thought about someone calling Harry Potter better than even one small description of your beloved Guroo you would understand.
For believers a statement like that is blasphemous, which is why there is a need for sensitivity when talking about beautiful Guroo Sahib.

I want everyone here to know that as a Guroo da Singh I am FULLY in my rights to speak up when I feel my Guroo is being insulted, and anyone who cannot understand this concept obviously does not have much pyaar for Maharaj.

 

[spnadmin]

In my humble opinion, and I am speaking with sincere interest in the ideas of this thread,

The ball is in the court of the next person to respond. The question is not who is right and who is wrong.

The next person to respond will determine whether the discussion grounds itself in anger and in personal feelings of being offended. Or whether the next person helps in understanding of varied points of view.

 

[BhagatSingh]

actually I was referring to the mindset of non-sikh people when they find out about what we believe in. Trust me, I most definetly know why these amazing gifts were given to us by Guroo Sahib and they are the complete opposite of silly, however non-sikhs usually find it funny that we abstain from such things, I said I dont care that other people react this way.

Well, they look at it from their media-biased perpective. We have to educate them about it.

You have to be kidding me if you seriously believe an insult such as the comparison to Harry Potter was a valid argument.

You have to be kidding me if you think comparision to harry Potter was an insult.

It was a cheap and CHILDISH shot at people who believe in the sakhi, and people should be more sensitive of others feelings.

By calling the poster's valid argument an insult, you may have just hurt his/her feelings. He/she may really like Harry Potter.

Maybe if you brought to mind a sakhi you actually believe and thought about someone calling Harry Potter better than even one small description of your beloved Guroo you would understand.

Curing people's eyes is not the Guru's description. Winning over people's hearts with simple logic is. Recall, the sakhi of Guru Nanak and his visit to haridwar.

For believers a statement like that is blasphemous, which is why there is a need for sensitivity when talking about beautiful Guroo Sahib.

No, not for believers, for people with blind faith. Well, I think showing Guru Sahib curing people's eyes was very insensitive. I am truly hurt!

I want everyone here to know that as a Guroo da Singh I am FULLY in my rights to speak up when I feel my Guroo is being insulted, and anyone who cannot understand this concept obviously does not have much pyaar for Maharaj.

Ok then speak up WHEN he IS insulted not when someone questions a fairy tale.

 

[Singhstah]

and your some brahmgyani right?
Your saying you know EXACTLY how Guroo Maharaj does what he does, and what methods he does and doesnt use?
Give me a freaking break, i********************* You seem to think that only your opinion is correct.
************************ you would realise that you cant enforce your views on others and tell them what to believe. You cant go around saying this which are hurtful either.I believe in the sakhi, and I will prevent any comments I perceive as insults to Guroo Sahib at all costs. You have to accept that.

***************************************.

How is a rubbish joke a valid argument to whether or not this sakhi is true?
Its an insult
I HAVE BLIND FAITH AND IM HAPPY ABOUT IT
Gurbani says you can be as clever as you want but you are still empty inside
I am happy being a simple sikh who will blindly follow my Guroo Sahib, my judgement is flawed, Guroo Sahib is all seeing, he has my everything planned for me.

****************************************

 

[spnadmin]

and your some brahmgyani right?
Your saying you know EXACTLY how Guroo Maharaj does what he does, and what methods he does and doesnt use?
Give me a freaking break, i********************** You seem to think that only your opinion is correct.
M*******************you would realise that you cant enforce your views on others and tell them what to believe. You cant go around saying this which are hurtful either.I believe in the sakhi, and I will prevent any comments I perceive as insults to Guroo Sahib at all costs. You have to accept that.

***********************************
How is a rubbish joke a valid argument to whether or not this sakhi is true?
Its an insult
I HAVE BLIND FAITH AND IM HAPPY ABOUT IT
Gurbani says you can be as clever as you want but you are still empty inside
I am happy being a simple sikh who will blindly follow my Guroo Sahib, my judgement is flawed, Guroo Sahib is all seeing, he has my everything planned for me.

*************************************


Singhtash,

Mod asked kindly that the conversation move to the next level, the level beyond hurling bricks and stones.

The argument is about a good topic. Yes, Bhagat ji can put his opinions forward and he can state why he thinks you are wrong and he is right. Likewise, you can state why he is wrong and you are right. Getting angry is also natural.

What cannot happen is this: Name calling and accusations. Try to pull back from your anger.

 

[Singhstah]

if you look at Bhagat "singhs" post, it was all sarcasm.
dont see why only I am blamed
its great you dont agree with name calling,
why dont you remove the harry potter posts
I asked kindly many times for a post to be removed
can we get past being biased to members?

 

[Admin]

Hello Singhstah Ji and fellow Members,

Nice to see you around after so long. If you find anything troubling you, please feel free to contact Admin/Leaders by Private Messaging or Report the post the bothers your conscience... We accept, sometimes, members queries are not addressed in a prompt manner as we are human at last... SPN is growing at an enormous pace and keeping up with each and every post/member is an effort which requires concentration/dedication of sorts... We hope you appreciate the efforts of Forum Leaders around here.

Well, indulging in brick batting is useless... Member like Bhagat Singh has equal opportunity to debate a topic as you have got... If you disagree, simply, accept the difference and present your views. Angry outbursts only make the writer feel like a novice and certainly makes the other party even firmer in his/her view point. Listen to other persons views, present your views and let the thought process evolve...

We truly appreciate your presence at SPN. Hope to see a much matured behavior from everybody around here. Enjoy this platform, not many online forums allow the kind of freedom of speech and expression, that is allowed at SPN!!

Enjoy!!

 

[spnadmin]

Angry outbursts only make the writer feel like a novice and certainly makes the other party even firmer in his/her view point. Listen to other persons views, present your views and let the thought process evolve...

This is exactly what happens. And everyone loses. No one wins.

 

[Singhstah]

Thank you Aman Singh ji for the welcome back.
Sorry I will try to be polite from now on, however I trust you can relate to where I am coming from, even if you dont agree with me.
Actually I was complaining about the original post by the member s|kh,not BhagatSingh, I now notice s1kh's offensive post has been deleted, and would like to say thank you to the mods

 

[S|kH]

My post is still there.

Thank you SPN mods for not bending free speech rules.

I did not insult the guru.

It's a story. I drew a comparison to another story I hold in high value. For you to claim that my favorite story isn't even on the same level as yours ****************** Offensive ! So don't get excited. What Aman says below is the truth. When we get angry all people hear is the anger and your point of argument is completely lost on them. Sometimes people get carried away with the insult to guru complaint. There is no way to check on this state of affairs. So there is no way to know if the gurus were insulted or not. Unless there is a psychic among us. When someone else says that, just move on. THIS IS NOT DIRECTED AT SlKh ALONE.
Anyways, ************************** Relax. Doesn't that sound much better?

I'd like to say I'd be highly disappointed if the Mods do delete my initial posts/comparison.

 

[kilemba]

I like going to the Gurdwara especially when its quiet , It gives me time to reflect. But we see our Gurdwaras' being turned into clubs where we have cliques amongst the sangat who do not follow the Guru's teachings and discriminate others , this make me uncomfortable and I prefer going in especially when there is no-one in the gurdwara.