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General How i feel not being able to go to gurdwara...

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Sherab, Feb 12, 2008.

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  1. Sherab

    Sherab
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    In the time of Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib Jee, there was a Gursikh who lived in a poor little hut. This Gursikh was blind and had a lot of Pyaar for Guru Ji. As he couldn't travel anywhere he would ask people to go to see Guru Ji and then wait for there return to hear of Guru Jis well being. He would ask them what does my Guru Ji look like, How brave is he, what weapons does he keep, what stories does he tell, and each would reply "I cannot explain with words."

    One night he could not sleep, he kept thinking of Guru Ji and how wonderful he was. He longed so much to see the beautiful Mukh of Guru Maharaaj. He could not take it any longer he felt angered at himself.

    "Guru Ji, I am such a dirty sinner, I am unworthy of your darshan. I do not know what countless sins I have committed for me to suffer without you."

    At this moment Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji awoke from his Samadhi, he told some Sikhs to get the horses ready as he had to go somewhere urgently.

    The blind Gursikh started to cry, he felt angry at himself for being blind, he tore his hut apart throwing things and cursing himself. he wanted to kill himself. He wanted too go to see Guru Ji. He ran out of the hut and just ran into the misty dark distance. he tripped and fell , he hurt himself pretty badly. he was bleeding. he started to cry and thought only of Guru Ji.

    "Guru Ji, Guru Ji! Guru Ji! Guru Ji! Guru Ji! Guru Ji!" he cried continuously calling out for Guru Ji.

    Suddenly he felt two strong arms lift him to his feet, and he heard a beautiful strong voice

    "I have come my beloved"

    "Guru Ji, is it really you, but how come you have come"

    This is what Guru Ji said..."Beloved, I could not sleep without doing your darshan, I felt your heart pulling me towards you and I could not survive"

    When the Blind Sikh heard this he fell to Guru Jis feet and cried so much he could not contain himself. Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji again lifted him and said

    "the home of Guru Nanak Contains everything ask of it what you will"

    The Sikh replied "Guru Ji all that I ask of is, that my eyes may work so I can do your Darshan"

    Guru Ji smiled and kissed both of his eyes. When the Sikh opened his eyes he again fell to Guru Ji's feet on seeing him and could not help himself and could only cry. he wept at Guru Jis feet and kept doing his Darshan. He could not even imagined such a beautiful guru. he just kept staring at Guru Ji. Guru Jee then said

    "beloved I must go now, it is amrit vela and the Sangat will be waiting" the Sikh begged Guru Ji to stay longer...

    "Guru ji, I cannot live without your Darshan now, what will I do" Guru Ji Smiled again and said

    "the house of Guru Nanak again offers what you ask of it, one more thing"

    The Sikh fell to the floor in dandaut, stretched out with arms towards Guru Ji and said "Guru Ji if you are going to give me one more thing then take these eyes away as I wish not to see anything ever again besides your darshan."

    A tear dropped down Guru Ji's cheek as he granted the final wish.


    JOU PRANI JAL BIN HA MARTA, TEO SIKH GUR BIN MARR JAYEE

    I am a sacrifice, a sacrifice to my Guru; falling at
    His Feet, I surrender to the Saintly Guru.
    Poor Nanak has gone insane, longing for the Blessed
    Vision of the Lord's Darshan.
    Even in violent storms and torrential rain, I go out
    to catch a glimpse of my Guru.
    Even though the oceans and the salty seas are very
    vast, the GurSikh will cross over it to get to his Guru.

    JUST AS THE MORTAL DIES WITHOUT WATER, SO DOES THE
    SIKH DIE WITHOUT THE GURU.
    Just as the earth looks beautiful when the rain
    falls, so does the Sikh blossom forth meeting the Guru.
    I long to be the servant of Your servants; I call
    upon You reverently in prayer.
    Nanak offers this prayer to the Lord, that he may
    meet the Guru, and find peace!
    (ANG 760, Satguru Granth Sahib Jee)

    ***If you visit the Gurdwara today, what do you see, Guru Ji sitting on their own, We should go to see Guru Ji everyday, because Guru Ji loves us and also wants to be with us. If we pull Guru Ji with our heart and remember him always then he will always come and be there with you**
     
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  3. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Good work Sherab ji

    All we know and all we need to know.
     
  4. S|kH

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    What kind of second-rate fantasy novel is this?

    So you believe that Guruji cured blindness, and then gave it back?

    At his will he fixed one of the most complex evolutionary systems in the body (the eye), to only restore it to its initial degraded state immediately at will? You know how many millions of years it took to develop the Eye, yet you believe that someone had random power to turn off its sole function at will?

    And if its only about "look at the morals in the story!"


    Harry Potter > this story.
     
  5. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Do science and evolution have all the answers of life?
     
  6. S|kH

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    I didn't say that. I never even said anything about "all answers of life".

    I simply pointed out the inherent flaws in this illogical explanation of a man curing blindness and then giving it back to the person.

    If all what your looking from this story is to draw morals, then there is alot of other stories one can look at.

    Harry Potter > This Story.
     
  7. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Its illogical for atheists but logical for beleivers.atheists and agnostics just try to find scientific explanations in each and every thing which is not possible in every case.

    You people just beleive what your scientist prophets tell you sitting in America.We just beleive in our Guru's .
     
  8. S|kH

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    So what your saying is ... that is perfectly logical and rational for an individual to believe that another man cured blindness, and then gave it back to the individual?

    I'm not trying to find a scientific explanation to this ... how about a logical one?

    This story was made-up. Blindness has never been cured by "touching the eyes" and no one can give blindness by "touching the eyes"

    I'm not believing what my scientist prophet tells me to believe. I'm using my own judgment, and rational sense with scientific facts to come to a conclusion.

    Your not using your own judgment, and rational sense, or even any facts for that matter. Your simply reading a book and stating it to be true because it was written by someone you highly revere.

    You see the difference yet, kds1980?

    Let's expand it and say J.K. Rowling is my Guru. Everything written in Harry Potter is literal truth. "Its illogical for monotheists, but logical for the believer. You hardcore monotheists just try to find an age-old written statement to back up your claims in each and every asset of life, and that is just not possible."

    If you have the internet (which both of you do), then you have access to a plethora of information which will outright deny any claims that blindness can be cured by "touching the eyes" -- You see when things become illogical yet? You can not deny the evidence when it is placed in front of you, you have to view it and analyze it. There is no evidence for your claims, plenty of mine.
     
  9. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    There are people's who beleive in miiracle's and at ground level you will plenty of people to whom miracle's happened.They don't need scientific explanation .You are following your
    scientist prophet who told you that its not possible so it cannot happen that's why you are debating here

    This story could be true or fake but the fact is beleivers don't need any proof.The rationality you are talking about these days is purely based on science and scientific logic
    So the place of maulvi's,pandits, and fathers are taken over by scientists.What they say is true for you otherwise even if a person say thousand's of time that this thing happened with me you will not beleive him because there is no rationality in his logic.
     
  10. Singhstah

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    Leaders Cut : Please use a civil language. Juvenille comments will no be tolerated here. Please refrain from making personal statements.
     
  11. Randip Singh

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    I think this story maybe a metaphor.

    The real question is whwther the Guru's belived in miracles or miracle making. All Bani and historical documentation as well as actions of the Guru's indicate no miracle making by the Guru's.
     
  12. Singhstah

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    excuse me, you didnt need to remove my whole, long post, which also contained gurbani.
    Thats really out of order
    I apologise on my part for making that small cheeky comment, but deleting the whole thing which I really do think addressed a lot of points and took time was harsh.

    also smells of BIAS, taking into account which mod deleted my post.

    If you can give me my post back (I doubt its saved anywhere), I will tone it down, leaving my VALID points
     
  13. Singhstah

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    The Divine Guru is our mother, the Divine Guru is our father; the Divine Guru is our Lord and Master, the Transcendent Lord.

    ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥
    Salok.
    Shalok:

    ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਮਾਤਾ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਪਿਤਾ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰਾ ॥
    Gurḏėv māṯā gurḏėv piṯā gurḏėv su*āmī parmėsurā.
    The Divine Guru is our mother, the Divine Guru is our father; the Divine Guru is our Lord and Master, the Transcendent Lord.

    ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਸਖਾ ਅਗਿਆਨ ਭੰਜਨੁ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਬੰਧਿਪ ਸਹੋਦਰਾ ॥
    Gurḏėv sakẖā agi*ān bẖanjan gurḏėv banḏẖip sahoḏarā.
    The Divine Guru is my companion, the Destroyer of ignorance; the Divine Guru is my relative and brother.

    ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਦਾਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਉਪਦੇਸੈ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਮੰਤੁ ਨਿਰੋਧਰਾ ॥
    Gurḏėv ḏāṯā har nām upḏėsai gurḏėv manṯ niroḏẖarā.
    The Divine Guru is the Giver, the Teacher of the Lord's Name. The Divine Guru is the Mantra which never fails.

    ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਸਾਂਤਿ ਸਤਿ ਬੁਧਿ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਪਾਰਸ ਪਰਸ ਪਰਾ ॥
    Gurḏėv sāʼnṯ saṯ buḏẖ mūraṯ gurḏėv pāras paras parā.
    The Divine Guru is the image of peace, truth and wisdom. The Divine Guru is the Philosopher's Stone - touching it, one is transformed.

    ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਤੀਰਥੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰੋਵਰੁ ਗੁਰ ਗਿਆਨ ਮਜਨੁ ਅਪਰੰਪਰਾ ॥
    Gurḏėv ṯirath amriṯ sarovar gur gi*ān majan apramparā.
    The Divine Guru is the sacred shrine of pilgrimage, and the pool of divine nectar; bathing in the Guru's wisdom, one experiences the Infinite.

    ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਕਰਤਾ ਸਭਿ ਪਾਪ ਹਰਤਾ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਪਤਿਤ ਪਵਿਤ ਕਰਾ ॥
    Gurḏėv karṯā sabẖ pāp harṯā gurḏėv paṯiṯ paviṯ karā.
    The Divine Guru is the Creator, and the Destroyer of all sins; the Divine Guru is the Purifier of sinners.

    ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਆਦਿ ਜੁਗਾਦਿ ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਮੰਤੁ ਹਰਿ ਜਪਿ ਉਧਰਾ ॥
    Gurḏėv āḏ jugāḏ jug jug gurḏėv manṯ har jap uḏẖrā.
    The Divine Guru existed in the very beginning, throughout the ages, in each and every age. The Divine Guru is the Mantra of the Lord's Name; chanting it, one is saved.

    ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮੇਲਿ ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਹਮ ਮੂੜ ਪਾਪੀ ਜਿਤੁ ਲਗਿ ਤਰਾ ॥
    Gurḏėv sangaṯ parabẖ mėl kar kirpā ham mūṛ pāpī jiṯ lag ṯarā.
    O God, please be merciful to me, that I may be with the Divine Guru; I am a foolish sinner, but holding onto Him, I will be carried across.

    ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਨਮਸਕਰਾ ॥੧॥
    Gurḏėv saṯgur pārbarahm parmėsar gurḏėv Nānak har namaskarā. ||1||
    The Divine Guru is the True Guru, the Supreme Lord God, the Transcendent Lord; Nanak bows in humble reverence to the Lord, the Divine Guru. ||1||

    ਏਹੁ ਸਲੋਕੁ ਆਦਿ ਅੰਤਿ ਪੜਣਾ ॥
    Ėhu salok āḏ anṯ paṛ*ṇā.
    Read this Shalok at the beginning, and at the end. ||
     
    #12 Singhstah, Feb 13, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2008
  14. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    I don't think that there is anything in sikhism where we can say that there were no miracles.But I think main thing is we should not depend upon them if it happens then
    accept it as will of god if it doesn't then accept it too.
     
  15. AmbarDhara

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    ....But they do not care for such things at all
    Nanak Bani Nirankaar Paarbrahm Parmesar
    Waho Waho Bani Nirankaar Hai Tis Jevad Avar Na Koi
    SGGS JI ANG 26SATGURU PRASAAD


    ਹਰਿ ਹਾਰੁ ਕੰਠਿ ਜਿਨੀ ਪਹਿਰਿਆ ਗੁਰ ਚਰਣੀ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇ ॥
    har haar kanth jinee pehiriaa gur charanee chith laae ||
    Those who wear the Necklace of the Lord around their necks, and focus their consciousness on the Guru's Feet


    ਤਿਨਾ ਪਿਛੈ ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਫਿਰੈ ਓਨਾ ਤਿਲੁ ਨ ਤਮਾਇ ॥੪॥
    thinaa pishhai ridhh sidhh firai ounaa thil n thamaae ||4||
    -wealth and supernatural spiritual powers follow them, but they do not care for such things at all. ||4||

    Gurbani eis jag meh chaanan
    Gurbani alakh lakhiayaa
    Gurbani Gavo Bhaee
    charan kamal parabh kay nit Dhi-aava-o
     
    #14 AmbarDhara, Feb 14, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2008
  16. S|kH

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    In the spirit of randomly quoting text which the other person does not deem holy as "factual evidence of the truth" ... I give you the following :


     
  17. S|kH

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    Your next post only highlights a gurbani shabad? Was that your valid point or more was deleted from your initial post?
     
  18. Singhstah

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    no, i wrote more, nothing against you personally my brother, but the mod who deleted my post certainly has a bias, as your critique of the sakhi (again nothing against YOU as a person) is as harsh, if not more than a "personal statement" or "juvenile comment" for me.

    I got heated up as I belive in that sakhi, I belive in Guroo Sahib's total power, and I'm sorry if anyone thinks I am brainless and blind zombie for feeling very hurt when it is insulted. The mod who deleted my post made it apparent that regarding the issue being discussed he is of a compeltly opposite opinion (he has posted in this thread), so it is not surprising he could not sympathise with where I was coming from.
    Once again I am sorry for any harsh words written in the deleted post, but someone who feels the same way about this sakhi and about Guroo Sahib (and belive me I am not the only one) would understand my reaction 100%.
    I am sure ALL can appreciate how someone who believes in something with full faith being compared to Harry potter would feel.

    I am still waiting for a response from the MODS
     
  19. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Veer ji

    Post all the shabads you want. Shabads are always good for us to read. However, it is important not to call people names, belittle them, accuse them of immorality, and like that. I don't know what you said because I never saw the post or the shabad that were deleted. But I know that whenever I have been accused of being either brainless or a person of low spiritual character I have to wonder how the person saying all that knows so much about me without knowing much at all.

    I read everything you post here. And agree with you more than you may think. So there is no need for you or anyone else to get rough with people. In the end it makes you look bad, and turns others away from your message, when that isn't at all necessary.

    That goes for anyone not just you veer ji.
     
  20. Singhstah

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    yes i agree, however if that is expected of members then it should apply to all. People should not be allowed to belittle what others hold as sacred either. To me, some of the posts on here are blatant Guroo Ninda, which is even worse than a personal attack. Polite debate on these issuses is fine, but jokes and ridicule are not.

    bhull chukk maaf
     
  21. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    We definitely need to avoid the Guru Ninda. We will all try to be patient with others as well.

    :)
     

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