Welcome to SPN

Register and Join the most happening forum of Sikh community & intellectuals from around the world.

Sign Up Now!

How did the Gurus call their religion?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by greenjuice, Jun 9, 2009.

  1. greenjuice

    greenjuice
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    5
    i came accross this lines from the SGGS

    The true Vaishnaav, the devotee of Vishnu, is the one with whom God is thoroughly pleased.
    He dwells apart from Maya.
    Performing good deeds, he does not seek rewards.
    Spotlessly pure is the religion of such a Vaishnaav;
    he has no desire for the fruits of his labours.
    He is absorbed in devotional worship and the singing of Kirtan, the songs of the Lord's Glory.
    Within his mind and body, he meditates in remembrance on the Lord of the Universe.
    He is kind to all creatures.
    He holds fast to the Naam, and inspires others to chant it.
    O Nanak, such a Vaishnaav obtains the supreme status. ||2||

    Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Gauree p274


    for instance, in the Quran there is a line where Islam is given it's name, so i was wandering if there is something like that in the Gurbani?
     
  2. Loading...


  3. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
  4. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    The first time the word Sikh is used in SGGS, Jap ji Sahib Ang 3, pauree 10


    ਮੰਨੈ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਮੋਖੁ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥
    mannai paavehi mokh dhuaar ||
    The faithful find the Door of Liberation.

    ਮੰਨੈ ਪਰਵਾਰੈ ਸਾਧਾਰੁ ॥
    mannai paravaarai saadhhaar ||
    The faithful uplift and redeem their family and relations.

    ਮੰਨੈ ਤਰੈ ਤਾਰੇ ਗੁਰੁ ਸਿਖ ॥
    mannai tharai thaarae gur sikh ||
    The faithful are saved, and carried across with the Sikhs of the Guru.

    ਮੰਨੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਭਵਹਿ ਨ ਭਿਖ ॥
    mannai naanak bhavehi n bhikh ||
    The faithful, O Nanak, do not wander around begging.

    ਐਸਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
    aisaa naam niranjan hoe ||
    Such is the Name of the Immaculate Lord.
     
  5. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    Greeenjuice ji

    An interesting question. And your example from Islam also. I would like to consider whether this is unique in Islam. Christians did not call themselves Christians in the Christian Testament. This was a label given to them by others, by-standers and followers of other faiths during their early history. They were adherents of Jesus of Nazareth - the Greek name given to him as Christos.

    Again, with Roman Catholics, the name as a designation of adherents of the religion was given to distinguish the Roman rite from Eastern rites. Later they were known as "papists" to distinguish them from protestant faiths.

    Sometimes the way of labeling a religion grows up in a culture of discourse, not always found in a scripture.
     
  6. greenjuice

    greenjuice
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    5
    i'm going to offtopic on my own topic :eek: but are here in Bani that you quoted "faithgful" referred to as to something different that Sikhs? :unsure:

    yea, i know that about Christianity and it's groups.. Jesus called his teaching "good-news" (eyangelion), that is- gospel, like in his sentance "repent and believe the Gospel"..

    i've read in some places "Sikhee" or "Sikhi", and although it's not an "-ism", i'd say it's only an improvised alternative..

    anyway, back to the main question, is there a specific name for Sikhism that the Gurus used?
     
  7. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    Just answered

    Sikhs of the Guru! gur Sikh It appears many more times in Gurbani. "ism" is a construction from European languages. No?
     
  8. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    -ism


    suffix forming nouns: 1 denoting an action or its result: baptism. 2 denoting a state or quality: barbarism. 3 denoting a system, principle, or ideological movement: Anglicanism. 4 denoting a basis for prejudice or discrimination: racism. 5 denoting a peculiarity in language: colloquialism. 6 denoting a pathological condition: alcoholism.
    [SIZE=-1]— ORIGIN[/SIZE] Greek -ismos.


    The suffix comes from the Greek. So the Gurus would not have used Sikhism because ism is not part of the Indic languages that they spoke/wrote in their time. Follower, disciple, student are meanings for Sikh. The called themselves Gur Sikhs.
     
  9. greenjuice

    greenjuice
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    5
    Sikh is a name for a follower of a religion, not the religion, you're answering the question that i didn't ask.

    religion of a MUSLIM is ISLAM

    religion of a SIKH is what? SIKHISM?

    and again, i'm fooking for a Guru-given name for Sikhism, if there is such..
     
  10. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
    Expand Collapse
    SPN Sewadaar
    Historian SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 25, 2005
    Messages:
    2,949
    Likes Received:
    2,952
    I think aad has done an admirable job in citing that the mention of "Guru ka Sikh" hence a Sikh would follow Sikhi, in English Sikhism.:D

    Here is a link see for yourself:

    Sri Granth: Search Results
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    randip ji

    I also tried, maybe I was not clear, to suggest that "ism" is often applied to a group with a belief system by other people. Or that names like Christian or you name it are also labels applied by either a culture as a whole or by observers. Those within a faith might not refer to themselves in terms of an "ism."

    Did not the papal emissary to the Mughal court refer to Guru Arjan Dev at the time of his martyrdom as "their pope?" He was trying to find an analogy with a form of religion he could understand from his own Roman tradition.

    The argument that there is no proper name or isms for the religion of Sikhs is a bit stretched, but I was already waiting for it (one step at a time mate). As early as the Guruship of Guru Amar Das ji the Guru's Sikhs were organized as a distinct group of adherents with distinct beliefs that differentiated them from other religions in their region (Hindu, Muslim, Christianity, etc.).

    If my decision to engage on this topic seems a waste of time --- please remember that forum visitors and new members might want to actually learn -- that is if they take the question at face value and were unaware of some of the information about Sikhism.
     
  12. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    A little about the early organization of Sikh faith under Guru Amardas ji

    All the same he took many significant steps. He established new centres for conveying to the people the message of Guru Nanak. Guru Amardas ji, condemnned Hindus for Sati, allowed widow remarriage and against Caste systems he started Guru Ka Langar. He passed on his Guru Ship to his son in law, Ramdas Sodhi, who was his most devoted disciple. Guru Amardas ji organised the proleystaion of Sikh faith into Manjis. He divided the area into 22 branches called Manjis and appointed a local Sikh preacher at each place. The preacher sat on a Manji (a cot) while the congregation all around it. Here are the name of the people he appointed to preach Sikhism.
    in the are of Majha (Amritsar, Lahore, Sialkote)

    1. Manak Chand Jhinwar (Water Carrier) at Variowal in Amritsar.
    2. Sada ram, a Blacksmith near Amritsar.
    3. Hindal at Jandiala near Amritsar.
    4. Gangu Shah banker at Lahore.
    5. Mutho-Murari, a devoted couple, at Chunian in Lahore Dist.

    In Jalandhar Doab

    1. Paro Julka at Jalandar.
    2. Mahesh Dhir at Sultanpur Lodi.

    In Kangra Hills.

    1. Sawan mal, Nephew of Guru Amar Das, at Haripur Guler.
    2. Name not given, at Dharamsala.

    Kashmir Hills.

    1. Phirya at Mirpur.

    Malwa (Area of Patiala, Ludhiana, Bhatinda)

    1. Kheira at Firozpur.
    2. Mai Das Bairagi in charge of Ludhiana dist.
    3. Mai Bhago at village Wayun, tehsil Kharar, dist. Rupar.
    4. Mai Sewan at Village Gardnoh in Patiala District.
    5. Sachna Shah in charge of Ambala distt.

    Sind

    1. Lalu in chage of some area in Sind.
    He started the system of holding two annual gatherings of his disciples from all over the country. At his headquarters, he undertook the construction of a baoli (a well with a perennial source of spring water). For the Sikhs the headquarters of the Guru and this baoli became a holy place of pilgrimage.

    from the sikh history site.

    We can see that as early as the 3 rd Guru the Sikh faith was being organized according to places of worship, common prayers, a canonical scripture, administrators to tend to the needs of the faithful, and many other structures that we associate with a religion.

    So it would be good not to play mind-games. In some ways Sikhism is arguably a universal religion. The Guru's did not have the view that Sikhs was a faith with a membership mentality that was organized to include only some and exclude everyone else. Sikhism is also a "path" a road to salvation. All these concepts defy the use of categories like Ism's and ite's and "ian's" and "im's"
     
    • Like Like x 3
  13. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,188
    AAD ji, well said.

    GURMATT is a GADEE RAAH..super HIGHWAY....ALL are welcome to Use it to Travel to the Final destination...Merger with the Creator.

    2. An important distinction. Sikhi/Gurmatt is the only religion not named after its Founders..BUT after its FOLLOWERS.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Huck_Finn

    Huck_Finn
    Expand Collapse
    (previously amarsanghera, account deactivated at t
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,324
    Likes Received:
    145
    what if a Sikh does not have a"Religion" as we know it
     
  15. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,188
    Amar Ji..

    THATS the POINT...Gurmatt Gaddee Raah....
    The "ROAD" is for a purpose..TO Travel.
    The "ROAD" Leads to a destination...Merger with the Creator..
    The "ROAD" never asks the traveler any questions/passport/ID/Label/what are YOU../why are YOU//etc etc....
    IT just PROVIDES the SERVICE.....it just lays there waiting to be USED....
    The "ROAD" has no beginning......and NO Barriers....anybody can get ON..and OFF at any point...
    And there are NO SPEED LIMITS....No Traffic Wardens to issue tickets...
    Plenty of Rest Stops along the way ....Guru ka Langgar !!! FREE for all travelers:up::up::up:...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. greenjuice

    greenjuice
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    5

    is the name "Sikh Panth" anywhere mentioned? Something like "Kabir Panth", i've never read the name "Kabirism"

    Judaism?
     
  17. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,188
    Judaism....possible.

    Bhai Gurdass ji writes..Mariah sikka jagat wich..NIRMAL PANTH chaliayah..
    Guur nanak Came and began the Nirmal panth.....Panth..meaning "path" and Nirmal..pure pristine...new...not related to the established paaths of hinduism/budhism/jainism/islam etc

    Perhaps because Kabir Panth is small...so no Kabirism..just as nO Ravidassism..Ramandndism... Kabir has a huge lot of his poetry outside of the SGGS.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    To anyone ji who is interested:

    I keep trying to make the point that many times when "ism" is added to the name of a religion the followers themselves did not do that, do/did not label themselves that way. Others, trying to label and categorize, add the ism or invent the name.

    Is there such a thing as Mohammadism? That is what Westerners would call Islam as recently as 50 years ago. When I was a child we did not use the word "Islam."

    Did followers of Judaism call their religion Judaism originally? NO! They were Hebrews and Isrealites who were followers of the Hebrew God, Yaweh (understood by virtue of their tribal membership). Later Judaism became a popularized term because of the western way of labeling ideas.

    Which brings me to the next point -- again based on the importance of thinking outside of the "Western European box" of labeling things. Many peoples on this planet do not think of their belief system as "religion" but refer to it as their "way." The question put would be What is Your Way? What is your Panth or Path? -- implication of this is What ethic do you follow?

    That is why what we erroneously refer to as "Hinduism" should really be termed adherent of the path, follower of "Shiva, or Vishnu, or Kali. Today Hinduism is used for ease of labeling. But it creates a false notion.

    And Guru Nanak had the same idea: Sikh is follower, disciple, of the way or path or ethic of Ik Oan Kaar. Or the Nirmal panth (way of the pure, path of the pure). Thanks Gyani ji.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  19. Huck_Finn

    Huck_Finn
    Expand Collapse
    (previously amarsanghera, account deactivated at t
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,324
    Likes Received:
    145
    <<No Traffic Wardens to issue tickets...>>

    i see a lots of cops on their choppers
     
  20. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,188
    ..

    I see what you mean...the "Talibans"..the"Wahabists" wearing longer than long kirpans and chakras and huge rounder than round dastaars... HAAN HAAN I "SAW" what YOU DID..TERA...Amrit tutt giya..Panj de Pesh hovoh...etc etc...well..all those are SELF appointed "guardians of the road"...no one needs to listen or pay attention to them...IGNORE and continue your JOURNEY....:inca::inca::inca::hmm::hmm::):)
     
    • Like Like x 2

Share This Page