Hinduism Hinduism Rant

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

Re: Hinduism rant.

Bhagti is the only thing religion has to truly offer, rest are all guidelines! We are more focused on guidelines than the Bhagti element. Hindus suffer from this a large part and Sikhs are also going down the same line. May God bless and save humanity, at His own ease, hehehehehe!

 

[Ashoke]

Re: Hinduism rant.

We forget that everything, the whole of Siri Guru Granth Sahib is summarised in the our MOOL MANTRA which clearly states that there is but one all prevading self existing Akal Purakh who is above all and Guru JI goes on to tell us how to be one with HIM . Therefore why should we as Sikhs then continue to argue about multiple deities ? No Hindu god can ever be part of Sikh philosophy. But Guru JI also tells us to respect all beliefs with respect.:happysingh:

 

[Taranjeet singh]

Re: Hinduism rant.

We forget that everything, the whole of Siri Guru Granth Sahib is summarised in the our MOOL MANTRA which clearly states that there is but one all prevading self existing Akal Purakh who is above all and Guru JI goes on to tell us how to be one with HIM . Therefore why should we as Sikhs then continue to argue about multiple deities ? No Hindu god can ever be part of Sikh philosophy. But Guru JI also tells us to respect all beliefs with respect.:happysingh:

NIcely put up Ashoke ji. So Dar ~ in Japu ji Sahib @ Paudi 27 also contains allusion to many mythological figures. Since it also appears in Guru Granth sahib we bow to this as well. It is the description as to what is happening at HIS gate........

ਸੋ ਦਰੁ ਕੇਹਾ ਸੋ ਘਰੁ ਕੇਹਾ ਜਿਤੁ ਬਹਿ ਸਰਬ ਸਮਾਲੇ ॥
Where is that Gate, and where is that Dwelling, in which You sit and take care of all?


ਵਾਜੇ ਨਾਦ ਅਨੇਕ ਅਸੰਖਾ ਕੇਤੇ ਵਾਵਣਹਾਰੇ ॥
The Sound-current of the Naad vibrates there, and countless musicians play on all sorts of instruments there.

ਕੇਤੇ ਰਾਗ ਪਰੀ ਸਿਉ ਕਹੀਅਨਿ ਕੇਤੇ ਗਾਵਣਹਾਰੇ ॥
So many Ragas, so many musicians singing there.

ਗਾਵਹਿ ਤੁਹਨੋ ਪਉਣੁ ਪਾਣੀ ਬੈਸੰਤਰੁ ਗਾਵੈ ਰਾਜਾ ਧਰਮੁ ਦੁਆਰੇ ॥
The praanic wind, water and fire sing; the Righteous Judge of Dharma sings at Your Door.

ਗਾਵਹਿ ਚਿਤੁ ਗੁਪਤੁ ਲਿਖਿ ਜਾਣਹਿ ਲਿਖਿ ਲਿਖਿ ਧਰਮੁ ਵੀਚਾਰੇ ॥
Chitr and Gupt, the angels of the conscious and the subconscious who record actions, and the Righteous Judge of Dharma who judges this record sing.

ਗਾਵਹਿ ਈਸਰੁ ਬਰਮਾ ਦੇਵੀ ਸੋਹਨਿ ਸਦਾ ਸਵਾਰੇ ॥
Shiva, Brahma and the Goddess of Beauty, ever adorned, sing.

ਗਾਵਹਿ ਇੰਦ ਇਦਾਸਣਿ ਬੈਠੇ ਦੇਵਤਿਆ ਦਰਿ ਨਾਲੇ ॥
Indra, seated upon His Throne, sings with the deities at Your Door.

ਗਾਵਹਿ ਸਿਧ ਸਮਾਧੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਗਾਵਨਿ ਸਾਧ ਵਿਚਾਰੇ ॥
The Siddhas in Samaadhi sing; the Saadhus sing in contemplation.

ਗਾਵਨਿ ਜਤੀ ਸਤੀ ਸੰਤੋਖੀ ਗਾਵਹਿ ਵੀਰ ਕਰਾਰੇ ॥
The celibates, the fanatics, the peacefully accepting and the fearless warriors sing.

ਗਾਵਨਿ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਪੜਨਿ ਰਖੀਸਰ ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਵੇਦਾ ਨਾਲੇ ॥
The Pandits, the religious scholars who recite the Vedas, with the supreme sages of all the ages, sing.

ਗਾਵਹਿ ਮੋਹਣੀਆ ਮਨੁ ਮੋਹਨਿ ਸੁਰਗਾ ਮਛ ਪਇਆਲੇ ॥
The Mohinis, the enchanting heavenly beauties who entice hearts in this world, in paradise, and in the underworld of the subconscious sing.

ਗਾਵਨਿ ਰਤਨ ਉਪਾਏ ਤੇਰੇ ਅਠਸਠਿ ਤੀਰਥ ਨਾਲੇ ॥
The celestial jewels created by You, and the sixty-eight holy places of pilgrimage sing.

ਗਾਵਹਿ ਜੋਧ ਮਹਾਬਲ ਸੂਰਾ ਗਾਵਹਿ ਖਾਣੀ ਚਾਰੇ ॥
The brave and mighty warriors sing; the spiritual heroes and the four sources of creation sing.

ਗਾਵਹਿ ਖੰਡ ਮੰਡਲ ਵਰਭੰਡਾ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਰਖੇ ਧਾਰੇ ॥
The planets, solar systems and galaxies, created and arranged by Your Hand, sing.

ਸੇਈ ਤੁਧੁਨੋ ਗਾਵਹਿ ਜੋ ਤੁਧੁ ਭਾਵਨਿ ਰਤੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਭਗਤ ਰਸਾਲੇ ॥
They alone sing, who are pleasing to Your Will. Your devotees are imbued with the Nectar of Your Essence.

ਹੋਰਿ ਕੇਤੇ ਗਾਵਨਿ ਸੇ ਮੈ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵਨਿ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕਿਆ ਵੀਚਾਰੇ ॥ So many others sing, they do not come to mind. O Nanak, how can I consider them all?

ਸੋਈ ਸੋਈ ਸਦਾ ਸਚੁ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸਾਚਾ ਸਾਚੀ ਨਾਈ ॥
That True Lord is True, Forever True, and True is His Name.

ਹੈ ਭੀ ਹੋਸੀ ਜਾਇ ਨ ਜਾਸੀ ਰਚਨਾ ਜਿਨਿ ਰਚਾਈ ॥
He is, and shall always be. He shall not depart, even when this Universe which He has created departs.

ਰੰਗੀ ਰੰਗੀ ਭਾਤੀ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਜਿਨਸੀ ਮਾਇਆ ਜਿਨਿ ਉਪਾਈ ॥
He created the world, with its various colors, species of beings, and the variety of Maya.

ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਕੀਤਾ ਆਪਣਾ ਜਿਵ ਤਿਸ ਦੀ ਵਡਿਆਈ ॥
Having created the creation, He watches over it Himself, by His Greatness.

ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੋਈ ਕਰਸੀ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਨ ਕਰਣਾ ਜਾਈ ॥
He does whatever He pleases. No order can be issued to Him.

ਸੋ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੁ ਸਾਹਾ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਰਹਣੁ ਰਜਾਈ ॥੨੭॥
He is the King, the King of kings, the Supreme Lord and Master of kings. Nanak remains subject to His Will. ||27||

 

[Kamala]

Re: Hinduism rant.

Kamala Ji,

Sikhism does not propagate avtaars. Only uses references about them to show they're not the real God. Further reference from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in Kabeer Ji's bani Page 1374 Line 14
ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮ ਕਹਨ ਮਹਿ ਭੇਦੁ ਹੈ ਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਬਿਚਾਰੁ ॥
कबीर राम कहन महि भेदु है ता महि एकु बिचारु ॥
Kabīr rām kahan mėh bẖeḏ hai ṯā mėh ek bicẖār.
Kabeer, it does make a difference, how you chant the Lord's Name, 'Raam'. This is something to consider.
ਸੋਈ ਰਾਮੁ ਸਭੈ ਕਹਹਿ ਸੋਈ ਕਉਤਕਹਾਰ ॥੧੯੦॥
सोई रामु सभै कहहि सोई कउतकहार ॥१९०॥
So▫ī rām sabẖai kahėh so▫ī ka▫uṯakhār. ||190||
Everyone uses the same word for the son of Dasrath and the Wondrous Lord. ||190||
ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੁ ਕਹਿਬੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਬਿਬੇਕ ॥
कबीर रामै राम कहु कहिबे माहि बिबेक ॥
Kabīr rāmai rām kaho kahibe māhi bibek.
Kabeer, use the word 'Raam', only to speak of the All-pervading Lord. You must make that distinction.
ਏਕੁ ਅਨੇਕਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ ॥੧੯੧॥
एकु अनेकहि मिलि गइआ एक समाना एक ॥१९१॥
Ėk anekėh mil ga▫i▫ā ek samānā ek. ||191||
One 'Raam' is pervading everywhere, while the other is contained only in himself. ||191||

I told you already, there may be one god but I just respect the Devi/Devtas, not believe they are god, just believe they exist.

Kamala, would you treat someone born as a Sudra as your equal?

Yes, well..

God cannot rid the world of dualities if they are not ready to embrace the knowledge. How can bad karam affect you in 'other' life when nothing is left of you after death. I liked a Hindi movie dialouge... Humein apne karmo ki saza issi janam mein milti hai!

god can do anything.

 

[Astroboy]

Re: Hinduism rant.

Again Vedas are source books of Sanatan Dharma and that a basic fact.
Sanatan Dharma is worlds oldest religion, so a number of people have taken their own path, but scriptures remain same.
So again where are vedic temples in central asia? why is river saraswati stated Vedas a river in North India.
Go tell national hindu society you dont know your faith go on...dear god

Any member of the Hindu society can come here at SPN and debate their fabricated facts. Just like they say every Indian is a Hindu. What a joke!!!

 

[Astroboy]

Re: Hinduism rant.

We forget that everything, the whole of Siri Guru Granth Sahib is summarised in the our MOOL MANTRA which clearly states that there is but one all prevading self existing Akal Purakh who is above all and Guru JI goes on to tell us how to be one with HIM . Therefore why should we as Sikhs then continue to argue about multiple deities ? No Hindu god can ever be part of Sikh philosophy. But Guru JI also tells us to respect all beliefs with respect.:happysingh:

Kabeer Ji on Page 1158 Line 17

Page 1158, Line 17
ਤੋਰਉ ਨ ਪਾਤੀ ਪੂਜਉ ਨ ਦੇਵਾ ॥
तोरउ न पाती पूजउ न देवा ॥
Ŧora▫o na pāṯī pūja▫o na ḏevā.
I do not pick leaves as offerings, and I do not worship idols.
Devotee Kabir - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Hinduism rant.

I told you already, there may be one god but I just respect the Devi/Devtas, not believe they are god, just believe they exist.......

Yeah..One god MAY/May NOT exist....and the devis devtas also exist..(May/May NOT.. WHO CARES....because we are NOT "kamala sikhs"..we are GURU SIKHS...and what the GURU declares is 100% TRUTH for US......

BUT what SIKHS/GURU Says is clear and transparent..
Page 1158, Line 17
ਤੋਰਉ ਨ ਪਾਤੀ ਪੂਜਉ ਨ ਦੇਵਾ ॥
तोरउ न पाती पूजउ न देवा ॥
Ŧora▫o na pāṯī pūja▫o na ḏevā.
I do not pick leaves as offerings, and
I do not worship idols

 

[Ishna]

Re: Hinduism rant.

Kamala, it's good to know you'll treat someone born as a Sudra well.

Can I ask you precisely what you mean when you say you respect the Devis/Devtas? Do you worship them, leave offerings for them, etc?

What makes you a Hindu?

 

[sanj007]

Re: Hinduism rant.

Any member of the Hindu society can come here at SPN and debate their fabricated facts. Just like they say every Indian is a Hindu. What a joke!!!

So river Saraswati fabricated when scientific facts prove it existed and is in Vedas.
Go on goto and tell Hindu society of these fabricated facts, if you are so sure go and tell them, shocking!!

Who says every Indian is a hindu, whos making stuff up now. Let me tell you being of Hindu faith, any individual lhuman being can be an Indian, regardless of faith.

Amazing how a number of non hindus think they can tell hindus about their faith, what a joke!!

 

[sanj007]

Re: Hinduism rant.

I don't think you understand. I'm not trying to convince you, .......

.......and I'm not convinced by your arguments on Varna and Jaati .......but I do respect the New Age Hinduism which you are advocating. Anything that rids Hinduism of the shackles of caste is very good.

I've read enough outside these forums to know clearly in my mind what caste, Varna and Jaati is, and it's relation to Hinduism.
So I have no need to "try again" because I'm trying to do nothing.

There is no new age Hinduism, just going back to scriptural facts, as there is an internal 'battle' going on in Hindu community between corrupt Manus text followers, which is not holy text, and those who follow humane advice in Vedas with Gita .
Our aim, is to removed this social evil of birth based caste, as it is not in scriptures, our caste is HUMAN, recognise all equal human beings as Lord Krishna says God resides in hearts of all beings.

 

[sid]

Re: Hinduism rant.

in vedic period sanatan(Hindu) religion was equal for all with sense of respect and was focused on vedas but vedas are not present now in its original form only less than 50% vedas scriptures are present

later sanatan(Hindu) religion became property of brahmans(Pandit) and now it is driven by alliance of politicians and pandits(brahmans)

 

[Randip Singh]

Re: Hinduism rant.

There is no new age Hinduism, just going back to scriptural facts, as there is an internal 'battle' going on in Hindu community between corrupt Manus text followers, which is not holy text, and those who follow humane advice in Vedas with Gita .
Our aim, is to removed this social evil of birth based caste, as it is not in scriptures, our caste is HUMAN, recognise all equal human beings as Lord Krishna says God resides in hearts of all beings.

Like I said Kudo's to you! You have however a mammoth battle!

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Hinduism rant.

I hold that Hinduism was CORRUPTED by the Brahmins/Priests/pandits..they are the ones who created these various divisions..in Parroh te raaj akro Divide and Rule Principle of self gratification...similar to the corruption performed by the Priests who jesus evicted form His fathers Temple..and what the SIKH JATHEDARS are now in the process of doing to Sikhism/Gurmatt...The Mullahs have done this to Islam...as well..

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Hinduism rant.

The SIKH GURUS REJECTED all these "middlemen..PRIESTS from Sikhi/Gurmatt and made us directly connect to The GURU and The Creator via Gurbani and its teachings..BUT soon we became lazy and had CARETAKERS..who slowly but surely spread thier roots deeper and deeper and now stand tall over us..they even Misappropriated the Power to EXCOMMUNICATE us form OUR own RELIGION..separate us form our own GURU...by USURPING the powers of the Guru to themsleves...Today the Caretakers dare to call up Individual Sikhs to their ROOMS, hold court and mete out "punishments" as they deem fit..thats a method of control GURU NANAK DENIED them but we restored it to them..
Now its the "priestly system" that is the BACKBONE of CORRUPTION and everything thats wrong in Gurmatt...because a CORRUPT PRIEST will always align with a CORRUPT RULER to ROB the COMMON MAN...sadly i see Sikhi/Gurmatt joining the long line of religions/paths to The Creator that have been waylaid/diverted/corrupted by MAN.

 

[Taranjeet singh]

Re: Hinduism rant.

I hold that Hinduism was CORRUPTED by the Brahmins/Priests/pandits..they are the ones who created these various divisions..in Parroh te raaj akro Divide and Rule Principle of self gratification...similar to the corruption performed by the Priests who jesus evicted form His fathers Temple..and what the SIKH JATHEDARS are now in the process of doing to Sikhism/Gurmatt...The Mullahs have done this to Islam...as well..

Respected Gyani ji,

For a change, I beg to differ here. Kindly forgive me if I am wrong.
Following is a quote from Geeta that I had wrongly posted in some other thread.

The four orders of society [viz., The brahman, Kshatrya, Vaish and Sudra] were created by ME, classifying them according to the Gunas predominant in each and apportioning corresponding duties to them; though the originator of this creation, Know ME, the Immortal Lord, to be a non- doer]
Lord Krishna...Bhagwat Geeta -c-IV-13, Geeta Press, Gorakhpur]

I stand corrected if I have missed anything.

 

[sanj007]

Re: Hinduism rant.

The four orders of society [viz., The brahman, Kshatrya, Vaish and Sudra] were created by ME, classifying them according to the Gunas predominant in each and apportioning corresponding duties to them; though the originator of this creation, Know ME, the Immortal Lord, to be a non- doer]
Lord Krishna...Bhagwat Geeta -c-IV-13, Geeta Press, Gorakhpur]

First we have Moksha, merging with God, if we live a noble life, then we have God residing in all, then we have Karma Yoga-selfless service, then we have society organised by the functions, which are not birth based:

<<Supporters of casteism oftenly quote slokas (IV.13) and (XVIII.41) of Gita to support four castes by birth. In sloka (IV.13) Lord Krishna says: “Chaturvarnyma mayaa sristam gunkarma vibhagsah” i.e. four orders of society created by Me according to their Guna (qualities/behaviour) and Karma (profession/work/efforts).

Lord Krishna does not say guna and karma of previous life. In (XVIII.41) Lord Krishna says “Brahmana Kshatriya visham sudranam cha paramtapa, karmani pravibhaktani svabhavaprabhavaigunaih.” It means people have been grouped into four classes according to their present life karma (profession/work) and svabhava (behaviour).

Had this division been based on birth, Lord Krishna would have naturally used “Janmani pravibhaktani” in (XVIII.41).

In (X.20) Lord Krishna says “ahamatama gudakesa sarvabhutaa sayasthitah” i.e. “Arjuna! I am the universal self seated in the hearts of all beings.” Here, Lord neither excludes sudra from “all beings” nor excludes Himself from being in hearts of sudra.

In (XVIII.61) Lord says “eshwarah sarvabhutaanaam hraddesearjuna tisthati” i.e. Arjuna! God abides in the heart of all living beings.” Again, sudras are not excluded.

In (XIV.4) Lord Krishna says “of all embodied beings Arjuna, prakrti or nature is the conceiving Mother, while I am the seed giving Father.” Thus, Lord Krishna says that he is as much Father of sudras as he is Father of any other Hindu.

In (XVI.18) Lord Krishna says: “Given over to egotism, brute force, arrogance, etc. they hate Me dwelling in their own bodies as well as those of others.”

Thus, Lord Krishna instructs that a Hindu must not hate bodies of others Hindus as He is there in bodies of all so Gita prohibits untouchability. >>

 

[sanj007]

Re: Hinduism rant.

Randip, whether mammoth or not, dont care, full force of scriptures are being shown, gathering is occuring, yes it will take time, but we will not stop....
All people reagrdless of pay packets are our equal brothers and sisters, we accept all fairly, and that is why Lord Krishna says he resides in hearts of all beings and that we should not slight anyone, which reconcile back to end game of Hindu faith: MOKSHA

 

[Taranjeet singh]

Re: Hinduism rant.

Dear Mr. Dogra.

This discussion is made to have a win-win situation so that we understand your point of view as well. Kindly take the posts in that spirit only, it is only then we can conclude something. Rest assured there is no intention of hurting just because you are on a sikhi forum. Your understanding of Hindu scriptures would be definitely much more than mine and we all intend to be benefited by this dialogue.

I am taking the verses verbatim from the book that I have readily available. The translation of the verse at c-IV-13 is verbatim without giving my comments. Like wise I give translation of the verse from C-XVIII-41

The duties of Brahmin , khashtrya and Vaish, as well as of sudras have been assigned according to their inborn qualities, Arjuna

In none of the above there is any allusion to Karma as you have stated. This is the essence of difference. How do you reconcile this? Also please do not forget that translations are best guide as there are about 15 commentaries available on internet.

Secondly, Do Hindus believe Krishna as the Creator or the Supreme Lord.?

Due to some personal engagements I shall not be able to be with you beyond half an hour or so.

Kindly throw some light. Also please note that I shall not respond if I find that your version is incorrect. I know Sanskrit very well.

 

[sanj007]

Again, have provided the texts as per commnetary which reconcile sback to Moksha and other clear verses. You have picked out a common verse used by supporters of caste, but when other verses are also shown meaning as to what is meant is clear. Please refer back to verses just posted above yours and consider where Lord Krishna says God resides in hearts of all beings. Do not concern with 15 commnetaries only in what reconciles, as many verses have been produced, it is up to the individual to internally realise this and form the circle back to Moksha
Karma, is up to God, we as individuals must behave nobly, hence end game is Moksha, for Hindu faith, it all comes back to Moksha.

 

[sanj007]

As reagrds Lord Krishna, here is a view:http://agniveer.com/god-vedas-hinduism/

There is NO similar mantra in Vedas to assert that Ishwar takes birth. Since Vedas alone is supreme evidence, Geeta has to be interpreted only in lines of Vedas.
2. Sri Krishna was a noble yogi. It is natural tendency of noble people to desire for protection of Dharma and destruction of Adharma. Selflessness is an innate trait of great people. Thus Sri Krishna wanted to take birth again and again to serve the cause of Dharma. We bow to such great thoughts of Sri Krishna and that is why He is our role model

I will go with this view. Other Hindu faith on this point will have their views.