Hinduism Hinduism Rant

[Harry Haller]

Re: Hinduism rant.

i think people in the west caucasions have more understanding as they see NO caste.

Not so, brother, in the west it is called the class system

 

[Randip Singh]

Re: Hinduism rant.

There is no caste system in Hinduism as per scriptures, simples.
Lets see some more verses of clear humanity and hence clear direction:
http://agniveer.com/821/vedas-and-shudra/


simple enough

simple enough



simple enough
http://agniveer.com/1634/religion-vedas/


There there sit down nand have some lassi, to much to take in.
Relearn me thinks. I am of Hindu faith and proud of it. My caste: HUMAN!! as per our scriptures

I think you are either in denial or trying to redefine the basis of the Hindu faith:

http://reserves.fcla.edu/rsv/NC/010015586-1.pdf

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=RGPSEuNsPLEC&pg=PA185&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=9YeZMP9WRdcC&pg=PA472&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://www.sps.ed.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/38426/WP03_BATES_RaceCaste_and_Tribe.pdf

I can post hundreds of books that confirm the caste system existed and is the basis of the Hindi religion. Its why the Karma system exists. The biggest reason for Sikhism forming was in definace of the caste system The reason why Hindi Hill Raja's fought the Sikhs was they objected to lower castes wearing the garbs of so called "warrior" castes.

 

[Randip Singh]

Re: Hinduism rant.

Not so, brother, in the west it is called the class system

So true ...................the elite glass ceiling here in the UK that you and me cannot penertrate.

 

[ugsbay]

Re: Hinduism rant.

Sorry Sangat Ji,
My above post regarding low caste & Buddhism is not quiet accurate so i am sorry, its something a few Buddhists told me a few months back regarding their very own personal experiance. Anyway Harry Ji are you realy comparing the western Class system to the Indian Caste system, i can see your point but their is a big differance brother.

 

[sanj007]

Re: Hinduism rant.

Apologies for hitting post 3 times

Randip go ahead, the scriptural facts are clear ( manu smrtri is not a sacred text and has been corrupted) , you have to show scriptureal facts and not cutltural evil of birth based caste which has no sanctions in scriptures.
There is only onwe caste : HUMAN, functions insociety is not birth based but individual based as per scriptures, and let us see what link says for scriptural proof:
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion...vedas-hindu-scriptures-prohibit-casteism.html

Lord Krishna does not say guna and karma of previous life. In (XVIII.41) Lord Krishna says “Brahmana Kshatriya visham sudranam cha paramtapa, karmani pravibhaktani svabhavaprabhavaigunaih.” It means people have been grouped into four classes according to their present life karma (profession/work) and svabhava (behaviour).

Had this division been based on birth, Lord Krishna would have naturally used “Janmani pravibhaktani” in (XVIII.41).

In (X.20) Lord Krishna says “ahamatama gudakesa sarvabhutaa sayasthitah” i.e. “Arjuna! I am the universal self seated in the hearts of all beings.” Here, Lord neither excludes sudra from “all beings” nor excludes Himself from being in hearts of sudra.

In (XVIII.61) Lord says “eshwarah sarvabhutaanaam hraddesearjuna tisthati” i.e. Arjuna! God abides in the heart of all living beings.” Again, sudras are not excluded.

In (XIV.4) Lord Krishna says “of all embodied beings Arjuna, prakrti or nature is the conceiving Mother, while I am the seed giving Father.” Thus, Lord Krishna says that he is as much Father of sudras as he is Father of any other Hindu.

In (XVI.18) Lord Krishna says: “Given over to egotism, brute force, arrogance, etc. they hate Me dwelling in their own bodies as well as those of others.”

Thus, Lord Krishna instructs that a Hindu must not hate bodies of others Hindus as He is there in bodies of all so Gita prohibits untouchability.

Can you respond to verses as quoted above ?
Ineteresting how a number of non hindus think they can tell hindus what they should believe in Hindu scriptures,

 

[ugsbay]

Re: Hinduism rant.

Harry Ji,
The Indian gov cannot even give justice to its very own Sikhs for 84, these killings as you are aware were done in full exposure. They just do not care, the elite here are not exactly saints themselves, all it is they do not get their hands dirty. As for us and the elites well there is a massive massive divide and its not something we can ever join.

 

[sanj007]

Re: Hinduism rant.

Hindu hill rajas are not representing hindu faith, the vedas do that trough scriptures as shown.
Condemn those hill rajas for discriminating against anyone as Lord Krishna says God resides in hearts of all beings, also:
http://agniveer.com/888/caste-system/

Many examples exist of change of Varnas in Vedic history.
a. Aitareya Rishi was son of a Daasa or criminal but became a Brahmin of highest order and wrote Aitareya Brahman and Aitareyopanishad. Aitareya Brahman is considered critical to understand Rigveda.
b. Ailush Rishi was son of a Daasi, gambler and of low character. However he researched on Rigveda and made several discoveries. Not only was he invited by Rishis but also made an Acharya. (Aitareya Brahman 2.19)
c. Satyakaam Jaabaal was son of a prostitute but became a Brahmin.
d. Prishadh was son of King Daksha but became a Shudra. Further he did Tapasya to achieve salvation after repenting.
(Vishnu Puran 4.1.14)
Had Tapasya been banned for Shudra as per the fake story from Uttar Ramayan, how could Prishadh do so?
e. Nabhag, soon of King Nedishtha became Vaishya. Many of his sons again became Kshatriya. (Vishnu Puran 4.1.13)
f. Dhrist was son of Nabhag (Vaishya) but became Brahmin and his son became Kshatriya (VP 4.2.2)
g. Further in his generation, some became Brahmin again (VP 9.2.23)
h. As per Bhagvat, Agniveshya became Brahmin though born to a king.
i. Rathotar born in Kshatriya family became a Brahmin as per Vishnu Puran and Bhagvat.
j. Haarit became Brahmin though born to Kshatriya (VP 4.3.5)
k. Shaunak became Brahmin though born in Kshatriya family. (VP 4.8.1). In fact, as per Vayu Puran, Vishnu Puran and Harivansh Puran, sons of Shaunak Rishi belonged to all four Varnas.
Similar examples exist of Gritsamad, Veethavya and Vritsamati.
l. Matanga was son of Chandal but became a Brahmin.
m. Raavan was born from Pulatsya Rishi but became a Rakshas.
n. Pravriddha was son of Raghu King but became a Rakshas.
o. Trishanku was a king but became a Chandal
p. Sons of Vishwamitra became Shudra. Vishwamitra himself was a Kshatriya who later became a Brahmin.
q. Vidur was son of a servant but became a Brahmin and minister of Hastinapur empire.

reconciling points of scriputres are clear!

 

[Harry Haller]

Re: Hinduism rant.

So true ...................the elite glass ceiling here in the UK that you and me cannot penertrate.

I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members.
Groucho Marx


lol lol lol

 

[Taranjeet singh]

Re: Hinduism rant.

Hindu hill rajas are not representing hindu faith, the vedas do that trough scriptures as shown.
Condemn those hill rajas for discriminating against anyone as Lord Krishna says God resides in hearts of all beings, also

Lord Krishna Called Himself indirectly as God.[chapter 3 -30-The Bhagwat Geeta ..by Gita Press,Gorakh pur ]. There are other places where he has called himself as God.
Quote..." Therefore , dedicating all actions on Me with your mind fixed on ME, the self of all, freed from desire and feeling of meum and cured of mental agitation fight..."

In sikhi we have one God. He is Karta Purukh. We are not used to Avtaars. Per sikhi God need not come through womb.

Let us not fight over where we differ. We can always give rest to things for the time being till something pleasant crops up. Your choice ,Sir...We are sikhs and sikhi is different from Hinduism.

 

[sanj007]

Re: Hinduism rant.

As per Hindu scriptures there is one god, but many manifestations of one god:

The Supreme One who represents selflessness, controls the entire universe, is present everywhere and is the Devata of all Devatas, alone is source of bliss. Those who do not understand Him remain drenched in sorrow and those who realize Him achieve unconditional happiness. (Rigveda 1.164.39)

Understand Sikhi is its own faith, that is NOT what i am talking about here, i am Hindu, so please either provide scriptural facts about what u think Hinduism is, otherwise dont try to tell me about my faith as will provide scriptural back up

 

[Harry Haller]

Re: Hinduism rant.

Many of your fellow Hindus would see you as a heretic, how do you deal with sharing your understanding with those that cannot see what you can see?

 

[sanj007]

Re: Hinduism rant.

Listen, have spoken to audience at temple, and no one said anything against my speech where spoke to people verses of humanity in Hindu uscriptures.
Those number of 'hindu' faith who want to follow social evil of birth based caste which has no sanction of scriptures can never expect to gain Moksha- end game for Hindu faith, so they can wallow in their ignorance, their choice.

 

[Astroboy]

Re: Hinduism rant.

Haha interesting the level non hindus try to tell hindus what theior faith is about, laughable.

Dogra Ji,

There is no Aryan Invasion Theory being proposed here, rather a migration well before 2000 BC.

Well lets say there are theories upon theories wound around Reincarnation. Here's one:-

Hinduism and Buddhism: The Lie of Reincarnation - YouTube

 

[sanj007]

Re: Hinduism rant.

Migration has occured both ways, that is not issue.
Comes back to where are the temples in Central Asia, where, why are there so many in India, and geographical areas mentioned in Vedas like River Saraswati, an ancient river in North India

 

[Taranjeet singh]

Re: Hinduism rant.

As per Hindu scriptures there is one god, but many manifestations of one god:


Understand Sikhi is its own faith, that is NOT what i am talking about here, i am Hindu, so please either provide scriptural facts about what u think Hinduism is, otherwise dont try to tell me about my faith as will provide scriptural back up

Your attention is invited to the first post of the thread that speaks for itself as to what this thread is about and what should be discussed here. Please excuse me for my blatancy.You are not at a wrong place to discuss that you are discussing but it should be in different thread. There is no ranting going on here and that is not the intention of anyone to hurt.

If you are a Hindu and want to learn Hinduism please visit some forum that deals with the same. If I want to learn Psychiatry I shall visit Frued and Jung and not Newton or Edison.
We do not know much of Hinduism as there are six schools of philosophy and there is no need of stating the same. This forum is meant to explore sikhism and there is no ranting going on here and we are discussing about sikhi and sikhism and its practices and rituals. It is the object of the thread , the originator of the thread has been advised more than dozen a times that to understand sikhism and context one should be conversant with Gurbani and the context in which the same has been communicated to us.

It is true that Guru Granth sahib have allusions to Names of Hindu Devtas in the context that is clear to us and we go by it. In that sense sikhism would be very different. Please practice that you practice and I have all the respect that you do.

Prior to the above post I have posted a piece of advice to the originator of thread. You shall be satisfied with the same. Kindly go through the same . May be you get an idea of the thread. It is always good to see that there is a progression of thread and there is no significant digression. You are most welcome to open a new thread as per the guidelines of SPN rules and regulations and policies and procedures.

This is one of the most liberal forums where everyone is respectfully accommodated irrespective of caste, creed and faith. I take this opportunity to congratulate Mr. Aman Singh for this lovely endeavor.

I again seek your forgiveness for this indulgence.

Regards.!

 

[sanj007]

Re: Hinduism rant.

Well the originator of this thread is not the same as myself, am an individual human being and not part of a collective same mind thinking.
Next comments were made about Hinduism which i responded to, thats all, so kindly take the matter up with those comments preceding mine about hinduism.

 

[Astroboy]

Re: Hinduism rant.

Let's discuss Rig Veda because it is older than the other 3.
There is no mention about Shiva in the Rig Veda. If there is, I would like to have a reference of it.

 

[sanj007]

Re: Hinduism rant.

And what does Shiva not being in Rig veda have to do with anything.
Can nyou reply to where are there geographical locations of central asia mentioned in Vedas, where are temples in central asia that show vedic scriptures

 

[Taranjeet singh]

Re: Hinduism rant.

Astroboy ji,

I am reminded of Paudi-35 of Japu ji sahib that speaks of shiva. Here it goes....Hope you will like it. I shall check up your response in the morning as it is fairly late.

ਧਰਮ ਖੰਡ ਕਾ ਏਹੋ ਧਰਮੁ ॥
This is righteous living in the realm of Dharma.

ਗਿਆਨ ਖੰਡ ਕਾ ਆਖਹੁ ਕਰਮੁ
And now we speak of the realm of spiritual wisdom.

ਕੇਤੇ ਪਵਣ ਪਾਣੀ ਵੈਸੰਤਰ ਕੇਤੇ ਕਾਨ ਮਹੇਸ ॥
So many winds, waters and fires; so many Krishnas and Shivas.

ਕੇਤੇ ਬਰਮੇ ਘਾੜਤਿ ਘੜੀਅਹਿ ਰੂਪ ਰੰਗ ਕੇ ਵੇਸ ॥
So many Brahmas, fashioning forms of great beauty, adorned and dressed in many colors.

ਕੇਤੀਆ ਕਰਮ ਭੂਮੀ ਮੇਰ ਕੇਤੇ ਕੇਤੇ ਧੂ ਉਪਦੇਸ ॥
So many worlds and lands for working out karma. So very many lessons to be learned!

ਕੇਤੇ ਇੰਦ ਚੰਦ ਸੂਰ ਕੇਤੇ ਕੇਤੇ ਮੰਡਲ ਦੇਸ ॥
So many Indras, so many moons and suns, so many worlds and lands.

ਕੇਤੇ ਸਿਧ ਬੁਧ ਨਾਥ ਕੇਤੇ ਕੇਤੇ ਦੇਵੀ ਵੇਸ ॥
So many Siddhas and Buddhas, so many Yogic masters. So many goddesses of various kinds.

ਕੇਤੇ ਦੇਵ ਦਾਨਵ ਮੁਨਿ ਕੇਤੇ ਕੇਤੇ ਰਤਨ ਸਮੁੰਦ ॥
So many demi-gods and demons, so many silent sages. So many oceans of jewels.

ਕੇਤੀਆ ਖਾਣੀ ਕੇਤੀਆ ਬਾਣੀ ਕੇਤੇ ਪਾਤ ਨਰਿੰਦ ॥
So many ways of life, so many languages. So many dynasties of rulers.

ਕੇਤੀਆ ਸੁਰਤੀ ਸੇਵਕ ਕੇਤੇ ਨਾਨਕ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਅੰਤੁ ॥੩੫॥ |35||
So many intuitive people, so many selfless servants. O Nanak, His limit has no limit!

 

[Ishna]

Re: Hinduism rant.

I think that paurhi is saying there are many different conceptions of god throughout the universe. Just like there are many different languages, many different ages, there are many different personalities of god.

But at the end of the day there is only IK.

Dogra ji, are you suggesting caste system is a CULTURAL issue in India, and not actually an element of Hinduism? There are many examples of cultural practices which become identified with the religion when they are in fact separate. Examples could include drinking alcohol and Sikhi (some non-Sikhs say Sikhs are big drinkers) and female circumcision in Islam (it is nowhere recommended within Islam!).

It looks like you're saying caste system is a similar social evil which has been identified with Hinduism.

Regarding Buddhism, it's all ok there unless you're a woman.

Has no one else observed that humans do in fact have natural tendencies to behaviours which can be broadly grouped into classes, castes or even 'standards'?

Can you look at the place you live and not see the hard-working, honest family type people, and then drive a few blocks and find the feral trailer-trash type people? This is not because we've said "I'm better than you by virtue of birth" but that some people have naturally more noble inclinations and others a more... relaxed approach to life.

These behaviours are often passed from parents to children.

So... as Sikhs do we deny these differences exist? And by extension, is the caste system in India defining these social categories more explicitly?