• Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
    Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
    Sign up Log in

Hindu Aarti In Gurdwara

Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Gurfateh
rajkhalsa said:
Saadh SANGAT Satsriakaalji,
I dont understand what the problem is when it comes to traditional practices....
The Panth has its birthplace in India..and if people feel ashamed to be associated with India..they will not hesitate to associate with the Panth.

There has to be understood that Babaji or Sant Kabirji ridiculed rituals in a way because the main motive to be spiritual was lost...since people were worried about mahurats...and they made them understand ...that just facing the east and chanting mantras and just offering water was not the only motive...the main motive was GOD...THE HARI PARMATMA....

We are claiming to be great by rejecting our own roots...just like neo-islamis...we have to understand we are not muslims...we are not idol haters or breakers...our Pehle Guru Padshaahji or the Dasve Padshaahji did not give the message to stop going to temples...or to hate hindus and India...
He would never do that...we have the same blood....everyone has a different approach to God...

As much as we hate non keshdhaari hindus..do we have that much guts or the zeal to hate the mullah..who have been thirsty for our Guru's blood...perhaps no...
The Khalistanis lick their {censored}...to have their quota ...

I end here..and request you all to think...read Gurubani ..attend Sangat...
Why we do we say Ram Raje so many times...and not allahuakbar..

If your defination of a sikhi is a typical muslim way like ..woman almost covering everything...I feel you should think twice before you profess to be sikh...the Gurus had been broad minded...why are we going the taliban way?

May Guru Maharaj give all of us the shakti to realize truth...

Waheguru ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguruji ki Fateh

Dear Brother,


hindu Arti does not exist as at the time of Arti of Idols hindus were not an entity.

yes Guru Maharaj did oppsed idols and if you read Brahmsutra bu Lord Ved Vysa you will find again anti ido things but they remained theoratical but we are in fact told to break idols.


'These hindu worship Stone,thier mind is like stone,One day my Khalsa will rise to destroy the Devals(Temple)'

Guru Gobind Singh Ji Said this in Sau Sakhi.

let us see Dasham Granth.


'These hill people are idol worshipper while I Am idol breaker'.

Jaffer Nammah.

Being against idolartry is something good for Hindus as from the time of Jainism and Budhism Aryans forsake thier God and went to idolarty and kept on bveing defeated by invaders.


See in Guru Granth Sahib,Das is a former hindu and his father still has faith in Narad Bhakti Sutra(where only idolaroty and worship of person or demigod is preached)This Sutra is by that person who does Bad act so that quota of evil is over soon and good things come fast.He misguides.

So See this verse from Guru Granth Sahib JI.


ਮਃ
मः १ ॥
mehlaa 1.
First Mehl:

ਹਿੰਦੂ ਮੂਲੇ ਭੂਲੇ ਅਖੁਟੀ ਜਾਂਹੀ
हिंदू मूले भूले अखुटी जांही ॥
hindoo moolay bhoolay akhutee jaaNhee.
The Hindus have forgotten the Primal Lord; they are going the wrong way.

ਨਾਰਦਿ ਕਹਿਆ ਸਿ ਪੂਜ ਕਰਾਂਹੀ
नारदि कहिआ सि पूज करांही ॥
naarad kahi-aa se pooj karaaNhee.
As Naarad instructed them, they are worshipping idols.

ਅੰਧੇ ਗੁੰਗੇ ਅੰਧ ਅੰਧਾਰੁ
अंधे गुंगे अंध अंधारु ॥
anDhay gungay anDh anDhaar.
They are blind and mute, the blindest of the blind.

ਪਾਥਰੁ ਲੇ ਪੂਜਹਿ ਮੁਗਧ ਗਵਾਰ
पाथरु ले पूजहि मुगध गवार ॥
paathar lay poojeh mugaDh gavaar.
The ignorant fools pick up stones and worship them.

ਓਹਿ ਜਾ ਆਪਿ ਡੁਬੇ ਤੁਮ ਕਹਾ ਤਰਣਹਾਰੁ ॥੨॥
ओहि जा आपि डुबे तुम कहा तरणहारु ॥२॥
ohi jaa aap dubay tum kahaa taranhaar. ||2||
But when those stones themselves sink, who will carry you across? ||2||

And 556.
The way Guru oppsed the idol worshipping by Hindus so did Gurus oppsed dead or grave worship by Muslims or Turks(True Muslim can not do suchg sin but Turk can do).

ਬੁਤ ਪੂਜਿ ਪੂਜਿ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਮੂਏ ਤੁਰਕ ਮੂਏ ਸਿਰੁ ਨਾਈ
बुत पूजि पूजि हिंदू मूए तुरक मूए सिरु नाई ॥
but pooj pooj hindoo moo-ay turak moo-ay sir naa-ee.
Worshipping their idols, the Hindus die; the Muslims die bowing their heads to dead

Ang 654.

Das can appriciate that you are and can not be a Muslim.

But Sikh is real follower of Islam(Muslim) as Islam meand surrender to God totaly.

Then coming to Indianness.

Gurmat does not recoganse the national boundaries.It is compulsion of Hindus that they,in order to give justification to thier name(meaning dark from term Andhawar or darkness in Farsi) try to stick to this name.

Gurmat says that person of God needs to be like God and our God is Adesh,not bound to a particular country as found as much in India as in US or Pakistan.

Similar thing Prush Sutra of holy Veda and Book of Issaiah of Old Testment say.

IN Jaffernammah Guru call Prophet as Rasool and God as Allah and this gives confirmation to mool Mantra of Islam but further to it,Guru term Holy Kuran as word of God.

http://www.sridasam.org/dasam?Action=Page&p=1469

See the link above to read the whole text.It is better to un derstand Faith correctly then livng in utopia.

Some of the Das brethern did find Guru as offensie to Hindus and stoped to rever him.Even father of das who lived in utopia that Guru Nanak was Vedi Brahmin lost devotion.

But Truth is truth and as it is.

Guru said niether there is Muslim nor Hindu as God is Adharam,As God lives in all faith,so god is free from communal divisons.As we are Khalsa,purly one with God so any attempt to bring us to divisions of Hindus or Muslims is not as per our faith.

Lastly coming back to Arti issue.

Turban we wear is more nearer to Shias,Matha Tekna or our bowing is same as Sizda of Muslims and not like Dandwat (where whole body is upside dowen kept in front of worshipped and head to stomach to knees to toes touch the ground).

So if Sizda,is there in us,If Panj Sanan(same as Waju of Islam ie cleaning hands,feet and face) is there and nop objiection then what is so fuss about Arti or Yagna being done for Akal.

Das would like to say ligthing Lamps or say Candles or say buring incense on alter like Yagna is part of semtic faith also.

main thing which we need to understand after realising the Truth is that same God works in Hindus and non Hindus and same in Sikhs and non Sikhs.

and in faith code or ritualism etc. does not matter in our Faith first thing is to understand that who is our God.once we understand that then all bhed(differances) are over.

Forgive das if some hurting things are writttan but das is as much anti to Indianism of Hindutva people as Das oppose punjabism of Khalistani brothers.

Our God is limitless and we will never succeed to limti out God by regioanl boundaries.Akal Bless.
 

Archived_member2

Archived
Jul 18, 2004
766
3
Germany
Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Maya while injecting ignorance into human beings does not care if one is a Sikh, Hindu, Muslim, Christian or Buddhist.

Gurdev is singing "but pooj pooj hindoo moo-ay turak moo-ay sir naa-ee."

The shapes of idols change from religion to religion. Please don't be in illusion that only Hindus die worshiping idols.

It is similar with bowing heads. Not only Turks die bowing their heads.

Sikhs are not different. Sikhs do not worship stones but they build Gurudwaras, their worship places, with marble.

Idols are worshiped till God is realized. Un till God reveals HIM before Jeevs, human beings know only idols and worship those.

Also, God realized persons do not start hating idols.

I am not sure if you can find a true Sikh hating idols.


Balbir Singh
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Gurfateh

Dear Brother Balber Singh Ji,

when idols become a sort wrong thing coming in and that too going against the main holy books say Vedas.

And making followers weaker due to division in socity.Better is to remove them.

I past idols of demi God divided Hindu socity and even some people due to thier so called lower birth wre not allowed to conme to places where such idols were kept.

This lead to their loss of faith in thier own community and they helped the invaders.

so to unit image of God ie Humans it was better to remove idols.Even in Sikh Gurudwaras like Darbar Sahib idols were thier.
1. As mark of thier showing as servent of Guru Granth Sahib.
2. As a thing to attract Hindus away from Brahmins.
3. But most probealbey to protect Idols from inavder who use to break them.
4.Foruth could be Gift from Hindus as what they liked to be best from thier side to Guru.


But later due to these idols,lower castes were not allowed in Darbar Sahib.So when Idols were removed along the Mahant Gandhi Ji termed as first victory of indipendance only keeping in mind the upliftment of untouchables.

Ironly is that at present we still have differnat Gurudwara for differnt Castes mmore in Punjab or in west.
 
Dec 8, 2005
241
12
Dear brother

you have got it all wrong.

Sikh way says

Satnam karta purk nirbho and nirvaar.

So we hate or harbour enemity to no one .

A hindoo is close to our heart as he is also a manifestation of god ttoo.
we are the messenger of love and peace .

love

hps62
 

Archived_member2

Archived
Jul 18, 2004
766
3
Germany
Satsriakal to all and Vijaydeep Singh Ji!

Have the Gurus ever suggested us to remove idols from our temple or anybody's else?

You wrote "I past idols of demi God divided Hindu socity and even some people due to thier so called lower birth wre not allowed to conme to places where such idols were kept."

The same is with the Sikhs these days. There was news few days back that Sikhs took away Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji from a village because people were not able to respect Him as they wanted. Apart from this they blamed that cigarettes were lying on the floor around the holy Guru.

It was surprising why these persons did not demonstrate the respect for the Guru by cleaning the floor instead of removing HIM and make those villagers feel of belonging to lower caste among Sikhs.

It would be great and wonder when someone can sweep ignorance by removing idols.

The world is full of idol worshipers.

Is a Sikh to spend life in controlling and stopping idol worship?

In my view, ignorance vanishes by true Simran alone.

**************

Strange is that Hindu Scriptures often mention God beyond Maya. Still, many of them have become worshipers of sculptures made of stones.

Strange is that Sikh Scriptures often mention God beyond Maya. Still, many of them have become worshipers of sculptures made of paper.

**************

The Gurus sang. All movements are God's Aartee. O God! Aartee takes place as you like it.

Today Sikhs give Hindus a wry smile because they do Aartee with lamps, flowers, etc. in hands.

And Hindus give Sikhs a dry smile because they do Aartee with Harmonium, Tabla etc. in hands,



Balbir Singh
 
Apr 14, 2006
17
1
Dear Friends,

Gurfateh!

We Sikhs ourselves call Bani as "Sarab Sanjhi Babi". That would inply that Bani is for everyone unconditionally. Who are we Sikhs to treat Bani as our property? Who are we to stop anyone to approach Guru Granth Saheb and enjoy the Ras of Bani?

We should let those who we consider sinners by our own standards to benefit form the greatest gift to manking - "Sarab Sanjhi Bani", and save themselves form the consequences of their sins.

Sikhs are known to have a 40" heart even in a 36" chest. Why not we show this to the world? Let there be more Bani readers in this world. It will be the best weapon to fight terroriats.

I request you all to carry this debate forward. It does not matter if you do not agree with me or others. We should let all streams of ideas to flow freely. Like open windows.

Guru Nanak would love that!

Your sevadaar,

Manmohan.
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
hps62 said:
Dear brother

you have got it all wrong.

Sikh way says

Satnam karta purk nirbho and nirvaar.

So we hate or harbour enemity to no one .

A hindoo is close to our heart as he is also a manifestation of god ttoo.
we are the messenger of love and peace .

love

hps62


Gurfateh

Dear Bro!

Niether Das nor Sikh Gurus had any sort of enimity towards anyone.

And Idol worshiper can be spritualminded and can get salvaged by mercy of Akal and say who hate Idol can have life like hell.

Say Wahabis,Arya Samajis and our own puresist of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

But thin here is that does this ritaul caused or causes any problem with social and political thing.Answer is YES.

when Somanth was looted ,instead of figthing people just kept bowing to idol and result was not OK.

So when Gurus preached Akal worship over idolatory ,it was good for idolworshipper to protect them and it was as per Vedic anf Vedanic and semitic books.
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Balbir Singh said:
Satsriakal to all and Vijaydeep Singh Ji!

Have the Gurus ever suggested us to remove idols from our temple or anybody's else?

You wrote "I past idols of demi God divided Hindu socity and even some people due to thier so called lower birth wre not allowed to conme to places where such idols were kept."

The same is with the Sikhs these days. There was news few days back that Sikhs took away Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji from a village because people were not able to respect Him as they wanted. Apart from this they blamed that cigarettes were lying on the floor around the holy Guru.

It was surprising why these persons did not demonstrate the respect for the Guru by cleaning the floor instead of removing HIM and make those villagers feel of belonging to lower caste among Sikhs.

It would be great and wonder when someone can sweep ignorance by removing idols.

The world is full of idol worshipers.

Is a Sikh to spend life in controlling and stopping idol worship?

In my view, ignorance vanishes by true Simran alone.

**************

Strange is that Hindu Scriptures often mention God beyond Maya. Still, many of them have become worshipers of sculptures made of stones.

Strange is that Sikh Scriptures often mention God beyond Maya. Still, many of them have become worshipers of sculptures made of paper.

**************

The Gurus sang. All movements are God's Aartee. O God! Aartee takes place as you like it.

Today Sikhs give Hindus a wry smile because they do Aartee with lamps, flowers, etc. in hands.

And Hindus give Sikhs a dry smile because they do Aartee with Harmonium, Tabla etc. in hands,



Balbir Singh

Gurfateh
what Tenth Guru thought about idol worshipping can be seen from Triya Charitat 266 or say 405ned at Chaupayee Sahib.Or say Jaffernammah,where Guru calls himslef a idol breaker.


But even in Tau Prasad Swaye of Akal Ustat at end we repeat as Guru said.

Some one worship idols.some one runs to worship dead,they all run for filthy act and do not get the end of Sir Lord(God).

When we are to bow to Guru Panth or Guru Granth as a rule when our forehead touches ground we need to keep God in our mind and no object,no man dead or alive,no image and no thing which is made say a scriputre also.

Same is told while we are told to do Naam Abhyas.
 

Archived_member2

Archived
Jul 18, 2004
766
3
Germany
Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Stone is an earthy material. It does not matter if someone rejects sculptures made of stone but starts worshiping another earthy material, for example iron or things made of iron. He remains attached with earth.

Knowing earthy materials through senses alone is not the complete wisdom of God.

Knowing God is realizing HIM in all matters and HIS presence beyond it.

In my view, the translation "they were idol-worshippers and I am idol-breaker" of the Guru's Verse is not correct.

Gurdev never broke any idol.

Gurdev is explaining here to transcend idols and not to identify oneself with the idols.

**************

Dear Vijaydeep Singh Ji!

You wrote "When we are to bow to Guru Panth or Guru Granth as a rule when our forehead touches ground we need to keep God in our mind and no object,no man dead or alive,no image and no thing which is made say a scriputre also."

May I ask why one bows to Guru Panth or Guru Granth when there is no object, no man dead or live, no image and no thing which are made say scripture also?

It is surprising that a person does not have any scripture in mind but he needs Guru Panth or Guru Granth outside to bow.


Balbir Singh
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Gurfateh

For Das Guru Panth or Guru Granth are nothing else but Gurbar Akal.In fact when das bows it may not be possbile often that a Sikh or Guru Granth Sahib Ji are verly there.
In Naam Abhyas,it is time and aginsed told to keep that one only in mind who has no form as in all form.Read Akalustat and we can get it as mannual there to how to operate the whole machine ie our Body to meditate.

If we keep some thing formed i our mind we may be reborn as the same but if we keep formless by the mercy of the same we will be like the same.

Das did tell once his Taksali friend that if some one does worship Guru Nanak,then he/she will be rebron as Khalsa but by mercy of Akal,worship of Akal only can lead to salvation.Akal only can salvage others also.


Coming to fact that Guru tells in 266 Triya Charitar about our God,who when ever we think,where ever we think with full attention.,That God is present.

There Princes break the Saligram or lingum on the head of Pandit and another thing she drwans in water.


Guru did calimed himself to be idol breaker and Sevadas Udaisis says that he told Aurangzeb(Rahmat UlAllhe) to rember that if He breaks one idol,idolatorrs will make more iodls of dough,Clay,wood,metal or other thing.Real idol is ego.My Khalsa will break the same ego.
Then question arise how ego reamins with idolator.

Das just wants to qoute from Holy Veda is God has no image.

So if we imagine god and feel that in stone or say book or say picture of Guru Maharaj,that object is created or found by man.Even in Idols life is enthused via Par Partista.

We deem that thing as creator and we serve that(Das did idol worshipping for about 10 years).We may rough shot the creation as we think that creaotr is under our contraol as we feed it,drees it etc.We may find ourself above creaotr and may find creation lower to us and may exploit or not serve the creration.


But when we find creator in creation,we find ourself nothing in front of that infinty,we have reseprct for creation as a whole and we serve creation but know that Creator is being served but after knowing ourself to be a mrere creation we find that we are also nothing but creator is doing all and we are not even capable to serve or worship.Ego ends by mercy of Akal.

Forgive Das if wrong is writtan.But Gurmat does says that from some tohr book that Kaliyug has something bad called idolatory.
 

Archived_member2

Archived
Jul 18, 2004
766
3
Germany
Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Duality does not exist from God's View.

Realizing duality is the illusory view of ignorance.

**************

God produces stones, earthy material, and human beings.

Human beings produce sculptures of stones and Gods.


Balbir Singh
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Gurfateh

God does causes dulity in us evewn if we just know but do not realise the truth which is God only.

Anyway as per Sevadas after tellling that ego is real idol does Guru told that may Khalsa will destroy all the idols.

Thing to rember is that some people may know truth just for the sake of knowldge but are yet to relaie the same.

While some say that living Guru,Dead peer(Muslim holy men) or Idol or image of demigod or deity is must to get concnetration or Dhyana.

For them as per will of Akal this could be OK,But so far they have not kept the Formless or one within all form in mind and did Dhyan of the same.

Has das not see the sea and saw only well then das has no right to say that well must be water only.

It is not neccasary that we need any created(by nature or Man) object to have Dhyan(concentration of mind) on Akal.If Akal wishes by perfect Dhyan over Akal we get one with Akal,Dhyan on Akal does comes to us.

Akal Bless.
 

Archived_member2

Archived
Jul 18, 2004
766
3
Germany
Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Quote >>>It is not neccasary that we need any created(by nature or Man) object to have Dhyan(concentration of mind) on Akal. <<<

Why do Sikhs need Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or the Gurus to have Dhyan on Akal?

Quote >>>If Akal wishes by perfect Dhyan over Akal we get one with Akal,Dhyan on Akal does comes to us. <<<

Since long, people are waiting to see God wishing. Does God exists only in future?


Balbir Singh
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Gurfateh

It is our Duja Bhav or dwait Bhav or concept of duality when we say that Guru Granth Sahib Ji or Guru are some entitieys other then Akal.

In fact faith is the reasson for the appearance of the Gurus and Guru Granth.


God is omini visible and Guru Granth Sahib Ji has writtan in it,It is visible,this thing is realsised by grace of one who wants to be omin visible.Term here is Nadir Karam or Mecry of getting visible.

God only was in Past,God noly is persent and God only in futrue.Omega and Alfa,which is ,Which was and which is to come.

when Akal wants we have Dhyan of Akal and Akal does it all.Did Guru Nanak had any Guru no but Sabad Guru.Same could be said for Dhanna,God is adressed s his Guru andhimself as Sikh as unto one verse on St Kabir in Guru Granth Sahib JI.

Gurus are wave of acean called Akal and same is the case with Guru granth Sahib Ji.

But when we do Pran Pratishta or putting life in idol a sort of cermony of Hindus to install diety,Das thinks we give life to a god there.

When we say a picture of Guru or say living Guru or say Guru Granth Sahib Ji are object of worship and an entity ,it is term called Shirk(equlvanaltn to Duja Bhav in Islam) as no thing exsit beside God.No one beside thee(Holy Bible),all visibe is God(Holy Upnishads).

Akal made us follow,Worship of Akal,Preacihng of Word and visson of Khalsa.

whay you write or think or what Das replies is from Akal.By will of Akal does an idolator worship idols or say someone tink living Guru as an entity or even worship Guru Granth Sahib Ji like an idol.Or say worship holy Kabba or say cross.

But by mercy of Akal does a stage as infomred in Guru Granth Sahib Ji is reached when all worshipped things are seen in all objetcs wroung.But such can happen without reading etc. also as King Janak just realsied the truth on keeping foot on saddle.
 

Archived_member2

Archived
Jul 18, 2004
766
3
Germany
Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Quote >>>But when we do Pran Pratishta or putting life in idol a sort of cermony of Hindus to install diety,Das thinks we give life to a god there. <<<

God has already established (pratishthit) life energy (Prana) in all that exists also in idols. The illusion of a Brahmin would be to establish Prana in an idol.

The virtues of the Vaaks from Gurdev do not depend on our valuations.

Quote >>>whay you write or think or what Das replies is from Akal.By will of Akal does an idolator worship idols or say someone tink living Guru as an entity or even worship Guru Granth Sahib Ji like an idol.Or say worship holy Kabba or say cross. <<<

Realizing this, questions like 'Hindu Aarti In Gurdwara' disappears. Only God's Aartee remains in tact and that also not only in Gurdwaras.

Quote >>>But by mercy of Akal does a stage as infomred in Guru Granth Sahib Ji is reached when all worshipped things are seen in all objetcs wroung.But such can happen without reading etc. also as King Janak just realsied the truth on keeping foot on saddle. <<<

I hope people do not start a new religion by imitating Janak and adopting a ritual of keeping a foot on a saddle.


Balbir Singh
 
Jul 30, 2004
1,744
88
world
Gurfateh
people may do that ie Saddal with Raja Janak.

As we see that in Kalki Avtar Guru tells that more Kaliyuga gets stronger,We have new religeon in proaximatly each day and that will also surivive only for few hours.
In Kaliyuga we will see more idols in futre and more living Gurus who may try to divide humans.In the case of idols,its worshipper will make some camp.

but being A Khalsa one with Akal,like Akal we will be free from time or era and in us Akal can change the era.Four Yugas are for those who worship or have faith in one who are limited by time but our God is timeless.Our guru is timeless.
 

ceo_nikka

SPNer
Mar 29, 2006
15
0
I fully agreee with you brother.
I had similar experience at Takhat Shri Hazoor Sahib. Though I must mention that the whole experience at Shri Hazoor Sahib was quite emotionally enriching.
However this episode, where Poojari Ji was performing aarti with Big Thaal and divas. And then everybody rushing for the Thal. Poojari putting Tikka on foreheads. And then when Poojari is leaving everybody is falling to his feet in presence of Shri Guru Granth Sahib, was quite against my understanding of Sikhi.
Thats my very personal view. May be somebody more knowledgeable
can correct my views.
I have heard similar aarti happens at Shri Patna Sahib. I assume it due to there bramanic influence. Not sure.

Gurfateh
Mandeep Singh
 

gs_chana

SPNer
Jan 16, 2005
30
22
United Kingdom, London
ceo_nikka said:
I fully agreee with you brother.
I had similar experience at Takhat Shri Hazoor Sahib. Though I must mention that the whole experience at Shri Hazoor Sahib was quite emotionally enriching.
However this episode, where Poojari Ji was performing aarti with Big Thaal and divas. And then everybody rushing for the Thal. Poojari putting Tikka on foreheads. And then when Poojari is leaving everybody is falling to his feet in presence of Shri Guru Granth Sahib, was quite against my understanding of Sikhi.
Thats my very personal view. May be somebody more knowledgeable
can correct my views.
I have heard similar aarti happens at Shri Patna Sahib. I assume it due to there bramanic influence. Not sure.

Gurfateh
Mandeep Singh

Well I thank God that some people see the light as it were. I am surprised how this post has turned into pages and pages of unrelated matter...lolz...very typical of us I suppose...cant face up to a fact and then have to go on a tangent to hide it all.

People go that the reason why this type of aarti was conducted was for Hindus to come into the Gurdwara Sahib and do their rituals whilst they were under siege by the Moguls...

WELL ARE THERE ANY MOGHULS NOW??

Look...I aint anti-Hindu...but you the sangat know very well that Guruji has acknowledge idol worshipping as being STRICTLY FORBIDDEN...

So, sure we may have done it out of compassion all those centuries ago...but times have changed...our people are being sucked into their empty rituals...because I tell you...GURU GRANTH IS FOR READING...UNDERSTANDING GURUJIs MESSAGE...APPLYING IT TO YOUR LIFE...THEN LIVING A LIFE WHICH WILL MAKE YOU A GURMUKH (god centered person) WHO WILL ATTAIN MUKTEE (salvation. liberation of the soul/what ever you may call it).

BUT WHEN WE CONDUCT THESE EMPTY RITUALS OF CIRCULING Divas...etc..around our GURUJI...we are disobeying GURUJI...because Guruji Explains...NAAM TERO AARTI...NAAM PHOOL MALA...etc..NAAM IS EVERYTHING...IF YOU WISH TO DO POOJA...DO POOJA OF GOD...HOW?? MEDITATION/SIMRAN...ALWAYS..HAR HAR...and although I cannot be said to be a saint...I AM TRYING...and so must others...I AM TRYING TO GO ON THE PATH OF RITEOUSNESS...(sacha marag)...WHICH IS BASICALY THE TRUE SIKHI WAY...NOT THE BRAHMIN WAY or ANY OTHER MISUNDERSTOOD WAY.

I hope you understand what I am trying to say...and please...more discussion as to how we should stop this rather than discussion as to irrelevant matter...NOT SAYING EVERYTHING ON THIS POST HAS BEEN IRRELVANT...IT HAS BEEN VERY INSPIRING TO SEE WHAT THE SANGAT HAVE TO SAY...but please...share you views as to how to remove such evils from our BEAUTIFUL SIKHI...remember...SIKHI IS FINE...THE WAY WE PRACTICE IT HAS GONE SOMEWHAT WRONG...WAKE UP YOUR MINDS...WAKE UP BEFORE ITS TOO LATE

Sorry for any offence or mistakes

Gurdip Singh Chana
 

Archived_member2

Archived
Jul 18, 2004
766
3
Germany
Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

It is strange that people go on translating Guru's message.

Can we translate Truth?

A translation is another opinion. It leads to duality.

**************

We may understand the Guru's words "NAAM TERO AARTEE...NAAM PHOOL MALA" differently when consciousness grows. For example, "NAAM TERO AARTEE" means your Aartee is Name. Gurudev did not sing "TERO NAAM AARTEE."

Enlivening this state is again THE Truth.

**************

God is not available by doing Aartee or rejecting it.

God is recognizing HIS Will in all activities.


Balbir Singh
 

gs_chana

SPNer
Jan 16, 2005
30
22
United Kingdom, London
Balbir Singh said:
Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

It is strange that people go on translating Guru's message.

Can we translate Truth?

A translation is another opinion. It leads to duality.

**************

We may understand the Guru's words "NAAM TERO AARTEE...NAAM PHOOL MALA" differently when consciousness grows. For example, "NAAM TERO AARTEE" means your Aartee is Name. Gurudev did not sing "TERO NAAM AARTEE."

Enlivening this state is again THE Truth.

**************

God is not available by doing Aartee or rejecting it.

God is recognizing HIS Will in all activities.


Balbir Singh

WJKWJF

I understand you point that but the thing is why do we keep coming back to this point you have mentioned. Are you justiying ritual worship...APPLY COMMON SENSE...you can see that they do such rituals to GURUJI's shastars and guru granth...IS THAT REASONABLE?? IS THAT JUSTIFIED??
 

❤️ CLICK HERE TO JOIN SPN MOBILE PLATFORM

❤️ CLICK HERE TO JOIN SPN MOBILE PLATFORM

📌 For all latest updates, follow the Official Sikh Philosophy Network Whatsapp Channel:
Top