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Her Mother Should Have Been Sterile?

Discussion in 'Gurmat Vichaar' started by japjisahib04, Sep 28, 2013.

  1. japjisahib04

    japjisahib04 Kuwait
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    ਜਿਨ ਹਰਿ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਬਸਿਓ ਤਿਨ ਮਾਤ ਕੀਜੈ ਹਰਿ ਬਾਂਝਾ ॥
    Jin har hirḏai nām na basi▫o ṯin māṯ kījai har bāʼnjẖā.
    The Lord's Name does not abide within their hearts - their mothers should have been sterile.
    ਤਿਨ ਸੁੰਞੀ ਦੇਹ ਫਿਰਹਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਓਇ ਖਪਿ ਖਪਿ ਮੁਏ ਕਰਾਂਝਾ ॥੧॥
    Ŧin suñī ḏeh firėh bin nāvai o▫e kẖap kẖap mu▫e karāʼnjẖā. ||1||
    These bodies wander around, forlorn and abandoned, without the Name; their lives waste away, and they die, crying out in pain. ||1|| SGGS 697

    I would like to share my understanding of above pankti and would like to hear comments from our learned members.

    As per my understanding 'matt' or maat' through out gurbani stands for intellect but has been generally interpreted as mother. From above literal interpretation, first thing comes to my mind is that this pankti does not relate to those ladies who are not married, widows and or male gender etc. second what is the use of sterlizing a seventy, eighty years old lady who cannot bilogically bear child anymore and whose son/daughter is already reached fifty years. Third, why should the lady be punished for the sin which is not committed by her once the child is matured. Third, Gurbani clearly says, 'aapai beej aapai hi khaey' then how can mother be punished, so it contradicts the basic understanding of gurbani.

    Even Bhagat kabir pankti, 'ਜਿਹ ਕੁਲਿ ਪੂਤੁ ਨ ਗਿਆਨ ਬੀਚਾਰੀ ॥ ਬਿਧਵਾ ਕਸ ਨ ਭਈ ਮਹਤਾਰੀ ॥੧॥That family, whose son has no spiritual wisdom or contemplation. why didn't his mother just become a widow? ||1||. In this pankti preference is given only to son. We accept this interpretation but have we ever enquired ourselves whether 'Oh kadhai n bolai kaudha ' will be ever issued taliban type farman and give curse.

    You will appreciate that Gurbani does not promote gender discrimination but to support gender discrimination normally our kathakar relates it, 'janani janeh ta bhagat jan kai data kai sur nahi ta janani bajh rahai kahai gavai noor- of poet tulsidas that lady should give birth only to saints or otherwise let her remain barren.(this pankti is not from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji).

    I would love to hear comments from learned members.

    best regards
    sahni
     
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  3. Ishna

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    Respected Sahni ji

    Thanks again for sharing your thoughts about precious Gurbani.

    I'm not learned, but I'll gladly share my impression of the pankti. It's not talking about punishing a mother whose child doesn't have Naam in their heart - it's saying very strongly that your own life is worthless if you don't have Naam in your heart. You shouldn't have come into being (your mother should have been sterile) if you're not going to remember the Creator.

    This is my own humble impression for the Gurbani.

    I'm sure there's a name for that type of poetic device.
     
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  4. spnadmin

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    Let me offer a synthesis translation that captures Sahni ji's concern that Guru Sahibhan would never speak in a negative way about women, and that gets at your idea Ishna ji that the mother gave birth but the child's life was worthless where Naam does not dwell in the heart.

    possibly, 'better that mother had not been able to give birth' to such a child whose life is wasted. Literally the idea is not the mother be "sterile" but the mother be "a woman without issue" Just as we would say in English - Would that, or better that, no child had been born into this sad state of affairs.

    Then by extension - If I do not have the "nam" (essence) of "Har" in my heart, (better my mother had been without issue) that I never be born to live a wasted life. I also don't want to substitute Naam for "Har" because Har stands for the indestructible jewel and makes a contrast between something of immeasurable value and a wasted life - that has little value without that precious jewel. Har is juxtaposed for a poetic reason.

    For future reference the pankhti is on Ang 697.
     
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  5. Ishna

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    What does 'pankti' mean, anyway? It's obviously not a tuk (a single sentence) but it's not a full shabad either... ...?
     
  6. aristotle

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    The meaning of a pankti is a single line(tuk) or sentence, in fact this is the literal meaning (it is also used for a queue or a single file march). A pankti ends with a poorna virama, dandi or full stop or a semicolon, in poetry it can also end with a comma(what we call a half-tuk)....
    Verse can be almost anything....a Salok, Shabad, Sawaiyya etc.

    In lay circles, pankti can be used for both a single line or a double liner, as in a Salok, but never for a full Shabad.

    P.S.- What japjisahib04 has posted are fit to be called panktis
     
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  7. spnadmin

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    I am posting the complete shabad because things get much clearer when it is there to study.

    Major confusion is the result when the complete shabad is not posted. It is always OK then to focus in on one part of it, if that is the purpose of the commentary.


    ਜੈਤਸਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥
    Jaiṯsarī mėhlā 4.
    Jaitsari 4th Guru.

    ਜਿਨ ਹਰਿ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਬਸਿਓ ਤਿਨ ਮਾਤ ਕੀਜੈ ਹਰਿ ਬਾਂਝਾ ॥
    Jin har hirḏai nām na basi▫o ṯin māṯ kījai har bāʼnjẖā.
    O Lord master, the mothers of those, within whose mind, the name abides not, ought to have been sterile.

    ਤਿਨ ਸੁੰਞੀ ਦੇਹ ਫਿਰਹਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਓਇ ਖਪਿ ਖਪਿ ਮੁਏ ਕਰਾਂਝਾ ॥੧॥
    Ŧin suñī ḏeh firėh bin nāvai o▫e kẖap kẖap mu▫e karāʼnjẖā. ||1||
    Their forlorn bodies wander about without the Name and they waste their lives and die-crying.

    ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਜਪਿ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਹਰਿ ਮਾਝਾ ॥
    Mere man jap rām nām har mājẖā.
    O my soul repeat thou the Name of the Lord God, who is within thee.

    ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਧਾਰੀ ਗੁਰਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਦੀਓ ਮਨੁ ਸਮਝਾ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    Har har kirpāl kirpā parabẖ ḏẖārī gur gi▫ān ḏī▫o man samjẖā. Rahā▫o.
    Lord God, the merciful Master, has shown me mercy. The Guru has given me the Divine knowledge and my mind is chastened. Pause.

    ਹਰਿ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਕਲਜੁਗਿ ਪਦੁ ਊਤਮੁ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮਾਝਾ ॥
    Har kīraṯ kaljug paḏ ūṯam har pā▫ī▫ai saṯgur mājẖā.
    In the Darkage, the praise of God holds the highest place and God is obtained through the True Guru.

    ਹਉ ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਅਪੁਨੇ ਜਿਨਿ ਗੁਪਤੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਪਰਗਾਝਾ ॥੨॥
    Ha▫o balihārī saṯgur apune jin gupaṯ nām pargājẖā. ||2||
    I am a sacrifice unto my true Guru, who has make manifest to me the Lord's hidden Name.

    ਦਰਸਨੁ ਸਾਧ ਮਿਲਿਓ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਸਭਿ ਕਿਲਬਿਖ ਗਏ ਗਵਾਝਾ ॥
    Ḏarsan sāḏẖ mili▫o vadbẖāgī sabẖ kilbikẖ ga▫e gavājẖā.
    By great good fortune, the vision of the holy man in obtained. it removes and washes off all the sins.

    ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸਾਹੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਵਡ ਦਾਣਾ ਹਰਿ ਕੀਏ ਬਹੁ ਗੁਣ ਸਾਝਾ ॥੩॥
    Saṯgur sāhu pā▫i▫ā vad ḏāṇā har kī▫e baho guṇ sājẖā. ||3||
    I have the True Guru, who is the all-wise king and he has made me share the Lord's many merits.

    ਜਿਨ ਕਉ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰੀ ਜਗਜੀਵਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਉਰਿ ਧਾਰਿਓ ਮਨ ਮਾਝਾ ॥
    Jin ka▫o kirpā karī jagjīvan har ur ḏẖāri▫o man mājẖā.
    They, to whom, Lord, the life of the world, shows mercy enshrine Him in their heat and place Him in their mind.

    ਧਰਮ ਰਾਇ ਦਰਿ ਕਾਗਦ ਫਾਰੇ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਲੇਖਾ ਸਮਝਾ ॥੪॥੫॥
    Ḏẖaram rā▫e ḏar kāgaḏ fāre jan Nānak lekẖā samjẖā. ||4||5||
    The Righteous Judge in his court has torn up my papers and slave Nanak has settled his account.
     
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  8. spnadmin

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    The device is called poetic irony.
     
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  9. japjisahib04

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    But when I reflect upon the rahao pankti, 'ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਜਪਿ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਹਰਿ ਮਾਝਾ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਧਾਰੀ ਗੁਰਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਦੀਓ ਮਨੁ ਸਮਝਾ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ I observe that the pankti is instructing to my own mind 'ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਜਪਿ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਹਰਿ ਮਾਝਾ ॥' as first person to comprehend the message of my inner voice and 'ਗੁਰਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਦੀਓ ਮਨੁ ਸਮਝਾ ॥ again for my own mind to be sachiar and not simultaneously placing blame upon my mother in case of failure.

    Thus with this central idea when I interpret, 'ਜਿਨ ਹਰਿ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਬਸਿਓ ਤਿਨ ਮਾਤ ਕੀਜੈ ਹਰਿ ਬਾਂਝਾ ॥ all those (it includes the mother also) who don't listen and follow the guru sabd their intellect 'ਮਾਤ' (here 'ਕੀਜੈ' means it becomes blind and not to sterlize her). As such manh is not able to conceive the godly virtues. Like guru sahib says who is not ready to listen the gur sabd is, 'ਮਾਇਆਧਾਰੀ ਅਤਿ ਅੰਨਾ ਬੋਲਾ ॥ totally blind or sterlized or has miscarriage. There are three types of 'baanjh' - first one who is not able to conceive at all, second who conceives but gets miscarriage and third one he conceives but is not able to implement is also called 'baanjh'. Like google contains the message but cannot implement thus is 'baanjh'. I feel based on ancient borrowed knowledge, justice is not done with this pankti.

    I would love to hear further elboration on this sabd.

    Best regards
    sahni
     
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  10. spnadmin

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    japjisahib ji

    I do not disagree with you. However, I do think you are elaborating on the idea of "sterile" - and that is helpful. Yet, it goes beyond the boundaries of the intended meaning of the shabad to say more than Guru ji is asking what makes a life a life of merit.

    When the mother, who is without realization of the precious jewel, gives birth to a child who has no awareness - then both are living "sterile" lives. Lives that have not been awakened, nor have taken the journey from the womb into the light. All of this is metaphor which surrounds the idea of what it means to be "alive" and what it means to be born into a life that is "quickened" just as the sense of life is "quickened" in the womb when the first movements of a baby are felt.

    Just as "bhanjh" has several meanings, so does "sterile" mean "devoid of life" "empty" "barren of life" "unable to give birth." But these meanings of a womb devoid of life, empty or unable to give birth do not in this shabad mean the actual barren womb. The idea of a sterile or barren womb is the metaphor; the analogy is to the life where the naam does not quicken and grow; where the spiritual self is not born, and a life is wasted.
     
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  11. japjisahib04

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    Spndmin Jee

    I really appreciate your contribution and am obliged. The reason why I was translating 'ਮਾਤ' as intellect is because gurbani throughout guides, 'ਮਾਤਾ ਮਤਿ ਪਿਤਾ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ॥ ਸਤੁ ਭਾਈ ਕਰਿ ਏਹੁ ਵਿਸੇਖੁ ॥੧॥ and not biological mother or father and brother and sister.

    best regrds
    sahni
     
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