Hemkunt Sahib?

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Dear Unstoppable Singh Ji,

OF course there is a FLAME deep within ones heart when we reach the places that our Guru sahibaans, martyrs...etc stepped foot on....Heck a "flame" also arises when we hear or read their fantastic history/Dhaadhi varaan/dharmik geets...an unstoppable lump will arise in my throat when i hear or read dhadhi varaan about ..say Guru Arjun Sahib jees Shahidi on the tatti tavee, or Bhai mani Singh ji being cut from limb to limb..or Bhai Mati dass being sawed alive..what more when I will have Guru Ji's Kirpa on me to actually VISIT those very places where these took place...How not to be emotionally attached to these places ?? impossible for a Gursikh...On this score I am in 110% agreement with YOU. Every single person I have met who has visited Sri darbar sahib Amrtisar/Takhat patna sahib/Takhat hazoor sahib/ Gurdwara nanakana sahib....has a very emotional tale of a solid personal experience to tell me...and that is TRUTH. These historical places of our Gurus are the "transformer Houses" we gursikhs go to Recharge our emotional batteries...

The Only disagreement i have with is calling these 'visits" pilgrimages...ostensibly to cleanse ones paaps/sins/get punn etc. THAT NOTION is 100% WRONG and not as per Gurmatt/Gurbani. Not a single line of Gurbani supports this view. Sadly MOST of the yatrees go on these yatras/pilgrimages solely to clean their paaps and collect punn. They come back with absolutley no knowldege of any historical things....

I hope we agree on these points.

Jarnail Singh

 

[saintnsipahi]

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh, All the gyanis are here to discuss about Hemkunt Saheb. But least I'm not a giani. I just know the fact that Mere Kalgianwale whatever he written in his "DASAMGRANTH" Is true and unquestionable like for everyone of us that we are living in this age and discussing this topic. Whenever we raise a point towards the Hemkunt Sahib, we are also argueing about our loyalty towards "GURU GOBIND SINGH SAHEB". There is no question of whether He was our Guru at that time or not, The question is that HE is Our Maalik For this life and forever. I myself believe that Living without SIKHI Is a sure Death for our soul. Guru is Guru of all times, He never be get away from his sikhs. What other things that our GURU GOBIND SINGH SAHEB JI has given us to obey , are we obeying? No surely not. We all are not capable to be in this debate. Thanks you all to listning me. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

 

[Harkishansingh]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh

I have read a lot lierature on how hemkunt sdhould not be hisotrical gurdwara for sikhism. It has things like Guru Gobind singh did bhagti with devi/devtai in previous lifes. I have a comment to make also/ at that previous time if he even had done bagati he was not even our guru at that time also. note: i am not saying he ever did. It has been said that this story has been made by hindu's etc. Also Hemkunt was only found about 50 years ago, if it was so historical was wasn't it found before.

please give yout opinion

In Bachitar Natak guru ji himself write it "
" Ab Mai Apni kayha Bakhno
Tap Sadhat Jhai bidh ano
Hemkunt Parbat Hai Jahan
sapat sring sobhit Hai Tahan

As u say that it was found about Fifty Years ago Than some places like TILGANJI SAHIB JI was not yet .

 

[Archived_member7]

Saadh Sangatji
I really fail to understand ..one claims we shouldnt consider Hemkunt Sahib because The Great Baajhaware Sarkar worshipped Devi Devte...i really fail to understand why is there so much of chaos over such things ..

We are not understanding that the Gurus dont consider it a taboo..We just worship the Akaal Purakh..The Devi Devtas are like Shakti of the Akaal Purakh...We time and again fail to realize that we are not muslims but we r sikhs ..we are getting bigoted day by day..

If we do not object 'Awal Allah Noor Upaaya' of Guru Aarjandev ji Maharaj who are we to object to Dasmesh Pita's Saadhana..

I consider it blasphemy to question Hemkunt Sahib

 

[BhagatSingh]

Saadh Sangatji
I really fail to understand ..one claims we shouldnt consider Hemkunt Sahib because The Great Baajhaware Sarkar worshipped Devi Devte...i really fail to understand why is there so much of chaos over such things ..

Well, for one its made up. Why? No one realizes that its biologically impossible to know something about yourself before you were born.
Two, SGGS says we incarnate into rocks and mountains. That says taht reincarnation is not the reincarnation we think it is. Its merely a recycling process! So no, your not going to remember what happened before and after you were born! Why is that concept so hard to grasp?
Reincarnation is to God as REcycling is to humans.
God says reduse, reuse, reincarnate.
We say reduce, reuse, recycle.

We are not understanding that the Gurus dont consider it a taboo..We just worship the Akaal Purakh..The Devi Devtas are like Shakti of the Akaal Purakh...

What? Dvi Devta are different personalities of Akal, they have broken up the qualities of God. The problem with having so many Gods is taht they create divisions amogst people. they are like different countries...

We time and again fail to realize that we are not muslims but we r sikhs ..we are getting bigoted day by day..

ya... and we are not hindu either...

If we do not object 'Awal Allah Noor Upaaya' of Guru Aarjandev ji Maharaj who are we to object to Dasmesh Pita's Saadhana..

Dasmesh pita considered SGGS above all. SGGS does not include his own writings but 'Awal Allah Noor Upaaya' is included.

I consider it blasphemy to question Hemkunt Sahib

Well, go ahead. but we really should be questioning everything from A to Z. Great philosophers do it, Guru nanak to all the Gurus and other Sants and Bhagats in SGGS did it. many other philosophers do it.
The reason why we have SGGS today is because there were questions. As soon as the questioning process stops, human development stops. Science works by hypothesis which is an educated guess on a question about some phenomenon.
So QUESTION QUESTION QUESTION!!! ALWAYS!

 

[JJKN]

Hemkunt Sahib

Hi,
I recently visited Hemkunt Sahib, and they were giving out one rupee to each member of the sangat. Is there any special reason for them doing this or is it just a sort of souvenir. Im just curious because ive never seen this happen at a gurdwara before.
Thanks
JJKN

 

[dalbirk]

re: Hemkunt Sahib

Hemkunt Sahib is a Gurudwara IMHO for all wrong reasons . According to Bachittar Natak Granth (DG) Guru Gobind Singh ji meditated on the hills for countless years in previous birth . As per Sikh history & philosophy whatever a Guru has done before getting GURTAGAADI is of no consequence to the Sikhs . If it was not so then , Sikhs should also go to Vaishno Devi shrine every year for Mata Darshan since Guru Angad Dev Ji used to go every year carrying along a jatha of Devotees before he came to Guru Nanak's shelter . Sikhs should also go to Haridwar bathing since Guru Amardass Ji used to carry Jathas to Haridwar for Ganga Ishnaan twice a year before he became Guru .

 

[spnadmin]

re: Hemkunt Sahib

Good point dalbirkj i and it is one that needs to be added to a long list of improbable occurrences.

 

[dalbirk]

Re: Hemkunt Sahib

This story is unfortunately part of that DG which is 60% full of erotic tales degrading women in particular . Nothing spiritual about that 60% of Bachittar Natak Granth at least .

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: Hemkunt Sahib

Hemkunt is nothing but something concocted out of myths and fairy tales which are against the Sikhi thought process. Unfortunately, the place was " discovered" by some prominent Sikh scholars of the time; however, it is a shame to notice that they for got the basic Sikhi tenets while desperately searching for "Mr. Right", in this case a place which is meaningless in the Sikhi way of life. But unfortunately, it has become a big place for us to idol worship, one more anti Sikhi tenet.

It is OK to visit historical Gurdwaras to learn about Sikh history but it is not OK to arrange tours during the summer when thousands of people visit this place and leave their garbage on the trail while singing the Salok- Pavan Guru, Pani Pita, Mata dharat mahat.........

The sad part is that no one can ban this rat race, the ritualistic yearly pilgrimage. Only those who study Gurbani and practice it can ban themselves. And from the throngs that visit, one can gather that is not the case. I have never been there and have no intentions of doing it either.

There are some threads about Hemkunt in the forum. I urge people to read them.One more thread worth reading about it is:Environmental Disaster created by Sikh Pilgrims to Hemkunt Sahib

Tejwant Singh

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Hemkunt Sahib

Naavann challeh teeratheen..See what GURBANI says about bathing at physicla teeraths like Hemkunt etc...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LlP_tT9NtY&feature=player_embedded#at=208

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LlP_tT9NtY&feature=player_embedded#at=208

 

[Ravi79]

Nir Bhau, Nir Vair, Akaal Morat, Ajuni Sebhang, JAP.

God bless all.

There is no proof of GGSJi ever being there, it is of historical importance to Hindus and Bhuddists but not Sikhs as without evidence and direct reference, we are the blind following the blind. There is no concept of pilgrimage in Sikhi, like there is in Islam, so let us not get into travel to find God when ALL gurus' said find God within you. "Guru Guru Gurbani He", as Christians say "Word is God", our Gurbani is God. Go travelling for a holiday, but not to find God, whom is within you and within all.

Respect Hemkunt as a Gurudwara, bcause lets face it, its there now, but lets leave it at that. :happysingh:

WJKK, WJKF.

 

[davinderdhanjal]

Ravi79 Ji,
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]--> It is still not clear to Sikhs that like so many other diversions this is one more by anti-Sikh elements to confuse us so that we do not address the issues for Sikhi (that prevail). How come we do not know much about what happened 26 years ago but know so much about tens of centuries ago?

As a challenge to those who have more money than sense – what would you do follow detractors like who believe in Hemkunt, having deevas and other idols in Sikh gatherings places or be SIKHS? Being Sikhs is to stand by TRUTH- means exposing truth about our ‘leaderships’, Akal Takhat, SGPC and DGSPC or their management etc. and criminal behaviour of police against Sikhs – the latter has some hard work to do, the former is what the Hindus did when they let Moslems loot and establish themselves (910AD) in India and then the British.

It is difficult to be true to yourself and the Lord so we look for shortcuts to fool ourselves and satisfy those who are trying to wipe us off the face of the earth.

You are not ‘savalakh’ by following blind – only by being TRUE can you lead and open the eyes of the blind. Banda Bhadur, Deep Singh and Hari Singh Nalwa did not run to ‘Hemkunts’ to be Sikhs or save Sikhi!

 

[jasbirkaleka]

Human nature is such. Greater the myth we create about our great Gurus, the more will be

the tendency among the majority of the people to believe it to be the cardinal truth.

 

[Ravi79]

Davinder you are right, that 'iron in the soul' is lost, that loha of the God's Word should be what the sould is made of, people dont see The Lord Waheguru is IN US!!!!! We really have to discipline ourselves to reach that clarity, but in the age of consumerism, sex and decadence, in other words the Kalyug, who has time to save their soul? I confess to knowing nothing but am trying to follow the Gur's Word: it is slow and labourious, but we must try to be true to our Guru.

"Meh Andulaeh Ki Paej, Tera Naam Kunj A kara, Meh Gareeb Meh Muskeen, Tera Naam He Adhaara"

God Bless Us All:swordfight-kudiyan:

 

[spnadmin]

Human nature is such. Greater the myth we create about our great Gurus, the more will be

the tendency among the majority of the people to believe it to be the cardinal truth.

Please let me add my part to your words, before asking you if you would every now and then start a thread for us about these devious "myths."

"Greater the myth we create about our great Gurus, the more will be the tendency among the majority of the people (jasbirkaleka ji)" to forget what made them truly brilliant, and to forget the profound hardship and sacrifice they paid for that brilliant light, so that we could flourish.

 

[jasbirkaleka]

Please let me add my part to your words, before asking you if you would every now and then start a thread for us about these devious "myths."

"Greater the myth we create about our great Gurus, the more will be the tendency among the majority of the people (jasbirkaleka ji)" to forget what made them truly brilliant, and to forget the profound hardship and sacrifice they paid for that brilliant light, so that we could flourish.

:redturban: I am extremely sorry if I made myself misunderstood.I would be the last person to ever doubt the greatness and brilliance of our Gurus.
The way they fought and rebelled against all odds, for a better future for all mankind, no example can be found in any other part of the world.
I was alluding to Janam Sakhies etc. where we are told of the "chamatkars" and all other such stuff performed by our great Gurus.
I am sure none of our Gurus would have approved of such stories about them.
I would soon try to start a new thread about these "myths".

 

[spnadmin]

jasbirkaleka ji

I am sorry if I was not clear.

where we are told of the "chamatkars" and all other such stuff performed by our great Gurus.

These are the tales that demean our Gurus and Sikhs and please do continue with your thread. I was AGREEING with you.

 

[davinderdhanjal]

Dear Jasbirkaleka Ji,
Unfortunately I agree with you although as Gursikhs we should not. I have to admit that if I had not read Kala Afgana's analysis of 'Gurbilas 6th patshahi'<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]--> then what ever was written by Joginder Singh Vedanti in the above book I would have believed. That book along with a smaller version was published and distributed by 'sikh infedels' in SGPC - I cant think of better prize for them than burning tyres around their necks. Luckily, and thanks to Kala Afgana, for Vedanti the main book was withdrawn but I believe the smaller one is still around. Check out on Kala Afgana site.
I have mentioned elsewhere that these people lavish titles on Gurus, Babas and Bhagats that would have us believe they are or were living gods on earth when they want to abuse them and then knife them in the second sentence by misconstruing hindu gods to be teachers of Sikh Gurus using equally flowery language that will make you believe our Gurus said that!
I do not have intimate ties with Punjab and India (I was born and bred in Nairobi Kenya) and I used to think Sikhs were Khalsas as one would idealise. In the last year or so I have spent time to research what has gone wrong - say since 1984?
Firstly the net is full of 'sikh sites' 90+% are anti-Sikh and correct information gathering is slow and laborious work. Definitely not for 'fair day' Sikhs.
Secondly - we do not need enemies when the 'Sikhi leadersip' is alive and kicking in the present form (it has possibly been like this for a long time?).
Thirdly - our leadership will trade Sikhi for political power at a drop of a hat?
Fourthly - general standard of education (Gurmat especially) is well below standard, I include myself in that too.
Fifth - the educated people are not recognised and encouraged - I may be treading on peoples' toes but Kala Afgana, Dr. Sukhpreet Singh Udhoke and Phoolka (may be many more but I do not know them) - have talent but - I may be wrong - are not front runners for Sikhi?
Sixth - ones who do work are very quiet - (true Sikhs) - but sikh leaders/politicians like Sarna weild so much power that they can throttle truth to change direction of Sikhi to suit in this case Congress who made over 3000 Sikh Marytrs in 1984 and since.
Seventh - our young blood may be too eager to protect us, which I thank them, but it has to be done by Sikhi - i.e. we have to be right so that when we hit out it is deserved by the receiver - not end up getting a bloody nose ourselves.