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General Help in Discovering Naam...

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Taranjeet singh, Feb 10, 2010.

  1. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    My friend called on me yesterday and we spent sometime in discovering Naam. He told me that one of the essential qualification for a seeker should be that he should not be affected by the highs and lows in life and should remain equi-poised to treat the 25 pair of opposites as same. He suggested me the 'pain and pleasure'[1] should be treated as one as one follows the another likewise 'cold and hot'[2] should also be treated as same by us. He counted up to 7 pair of opposites out of which I have stated two in the above lines.. I was not convinced with him. He told me that it is the state of mind that makes us feel happy or sad. :yes:

    Finally, he suggested me to write down a sentence the reading of which will make me sad if I am in happy state of affairs and vice-versa i.e it should make me feel happy if at that time I was a bit sad. :cool:

    I failed.

    He suggested me to take the help of my SPN friends. He shall tell me the answer today evening or tomorrow and that I shall share with you.

    Can you help me and try a sentence/phrase/expression the reading of which I shall be sad if I am happy and vice-versa.Could you write a sentence/words/some expression the reading of which will change/alter mood in the manner stated above.?
     
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  3. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Re: Help....

    twinkle ji

    We are riding the same raft. I am tempted to say that in Sikhism, unlike other dharmic faiths, and also other faiths that are not dharmic, there are no recipes for this.

    However, the human mind seeks order in chaos and will impose a structure, ritual, theory, hypothesis, sadhana, gestalt, practice, just because it must. It is biologically wired to do so and the fact that the mind works this way has contributed to the survival of our species.

    But when the human mind creates "order" it is also involved in myth-making as even theories that are supported by facts must change when new facts are discovered. So...... this answer is my own myth.

    I supposed the goal is to go from this
    ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲਾ ਤੂੰ ਚੰਚਲਾ ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ਛਡਿ ਵਿਕਰਾਲਿ ॥
    man karehalaa thoon chanchalaa chathuraaee shhadd vikaraal ||
    O camel-like mind, you are so fickle; give up your cleverness and corruption.

    to this ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲਾ ਵਡਭਾਗੀਆ ਹਰਿ ਏਕ ਨਦਰਿ ਨਿਹਾਲਿ ॥
    man karehalaa vaddabhaageeaa har eaek nadhar nihaal ||
    O very fortunate camel-like mind, with one Glance of Grace from the Lord, you shall be enraptured.

    By doing this

    ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲਾ ਮੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰਿਆ ਵਿਚਿ ਦੇਹੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥
    man karehalaa maerae piaariaa vich dhaehee joth samaal ||
    O my dear beloved camel-like mind, dwell upon the Divine Light within the body.

    I am myself still working on it. There is a pair of shabads that always help me.

    Here is one

    ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ਘਰੁ ੧ ॥
    raag dhaevagandhhaaree mehalaa 4 ghar 1 ||
    Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree, Fourth Mehl, First House:

    ਸੇਵਕ ਜਨ ਬਨੇ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੇ ॥
    saevak jan banae thaakur liv laagae ||
    Those who become the humble servants of the Lord and Master, lovingly focus their minds on Him.

    ਜੋ ਤੁਮਰਾ ਜਸੁ ਕਹਤੇ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਤਿਨ ਮੁਖ ਭਾਗ ਸਭਾਗੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    jo thumaraa jas kehathae guramath thin mukh bhaag sabhaagae ||1|| rehaao ||
    Those who chant Your Praises, through the Guru's Teachings, have great good fortune recorded upon their foreheads. ||1||Pause||

    ਟੂਟੇ ਮਾਇਆ ਕੇ ਬੰਧਨ ਫਾਹੇ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੇ ॥
    ttoottae maaeiaa kae bandhhan faahae har raam naam liv laagae ||
    The bonds and shackles of Maya are shattered, by lovingly focusing their minds on the Name of the Lord.

    ਹਮਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਮੋਹਿਓ ਗੁਰ ਮੋਹਨਿ ਹਮ ਬਿਸਮ ਭਈ ਮੁਖਿ ਲਾਗੇ ॥੧॥
    hamaraa man mohiou gur mohan ham bisam bhee mukh laagae ||1||
    My mind is enticed by the Guru, the Enticer; beholding Him, I am wonder-struck. ||1||

    ਸਗਲੀ ਰੈਣਿ ਸੋਈ ਅੰਧਿਆਰੀ ਗੁਰ ਕਿੰਚਤ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਜਾਗੇ ॥
    sagalee rain soee andhhiaaree gur kinchath kirapaa jaagae ||
    I slept through the entire dark night of my life, but through the tiniest bit of the Guru's Grace, I have been awakened.

    ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਮੋਹਿ ਤੁਮ ਸਰਿ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਲਾਗੇ ॥੨॥੧॥
    jan naanak kae prabh sundhar suaamee mohi thum sar avar n laagae ||2||1||
    O Beautiful Lord God, Master of servant Nanak, there is none comparable to You. ||2||1|


    Here is the other one

    ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ ॥
    dhaevagandhhaaree ||
    Dayv-Gandhaaree:

    ਅਬ ਹਮ ਚਲੀ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਪਹਿ ਹਾਰਿ ॥
    ab ham chalee thaakur pehi haar ||
    Now, I have come, exhausted, to my Lord and Master.

    ਜਬ ਹਮ ਸਰਣਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਕੀ ਆਈ ਰਾਖੁ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਭਾਵੈ ਮਾਰਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    jab ham saran prabhoo kee aaee raakh prabhoo bhaavai maar ||1|| rehaao ||
    Now that I have come seeking Your Sanctuary, God, please, either save me, or kill me. ||1||Pause||

    ਲੋਕਨ ਕੀ ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ਉਪਮਾ ਤੇ ਬੈਸੰਤਰਿ ਜਾਰਿ ॥
    lokan kee chathuraaee oupamaa thae baisanthar jaar ||
    I have burnt in the fire the clever devices and praises of the world.

    ਕੋਈ ਭਲਾ ਕਹਉ ਭਾਵੈ ਬੁਰਾ ਕਹਉ ਹਮ ਤਨੁ ਦੀਓ ਹੈ ਢਾਰਿ ॥੧॥
    koee bhalaa keho bhaavai buraa keho ham than dheeou hai dtaar ||1||
    Some speak good of me, and some speak ill of me, but I have surrendered my body to You. ||1||

    ਜੋ ਆਵਤ ਸਰਣਿ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਤਿਸੁ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਧਾਰਿ ॥
    jo aavath saran thaakur prabh thumaree this raakhahu kirapaa dhhaar ||
    Whoever comes to Your Sanctuary, O God, Lord and Master, You save by Your Merciful Grace.


    ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਰਣਿ ਤੁਮਾਰੀ ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਲਾਜ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ॥੨॥੪॥
    jan naanak saran thumaaree har jeeo raakhahu laaj muraar ||2||4||
    Servant Nanak has entered Your Sanctuary, Dear Lord; O Lord, please, protect his honor! ||2||4||
     
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  4. Mai Harinder Kaur

    Mai Harinder Kaur
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    Re: Help....

    It's all the Hukam of Vaheguru.
     
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  5. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    Re: Help....


    Mai ji, Your answer seems to fit in the bill But my friend wrote:

    :happykaur:Yeh Waqt bhe Gujar Jayega:happykaur: This time shall also pass away:happykaur:
     
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    #4 Taranjeet singh, Feb 10, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2010
  6. Archived_Member16

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    Re: Help....

    What does the Guru Granth Sahib Ji say:

    Pain and Pleasure

    sukh dhukh sam kar jaaneeahi sabadh bhaedh sukh hoe ||5||
    Those who see pain and pleasure as one and the same find peace; they are pierced through by the Shabad. ||5||
    - Guru Nanak, Siree Raag, 57

    naanak naam milai vaddiaaee dhukh sukh sam kar jaananiaa ||8||10||11||
    O Nanak, one who obtains the Greatness of the Naam, looks upon pain and pleasure as one and the same. ||8||10||11||
    - Guru Amar Daas, Raag Maajh, 116

    sukh dhukh dhono sam kar jaanai aour maan apamaanaa ||
    One who knows that pain and pleasure are both the same, and honor and dishonor as well,
    - Guru Tegh Bahaadur, Raag Gauree, 218

    sookh dhookh mukath jon naanak likhiou laekh ||1||
    Pleasure and pain, liberation and reincarnation, O Nanak, come according to one's pre-ordained destiny. ||1||
    - Guru Arjan, Raag Gauree, 253

    gur mil dhooo eaek sam dhharai ||
    Meeting the Guru, one comes to look alike upon pleasure and pain,
    - Bhagat Kabeer, Raag Gauree, 344

    dhukh sukh dheeaa jaehaa keeaa so nibehai jeea naalae ||
    He bestows pain and pleasure, according to the deeds done; the record of these deeds stays with the soul.
    - Guru Nanak, Raag Vadhans, 581

    harakhahu sog n mittee kabehoo vin bhaanae bharamaaeidhaa ||7||
    His pleasure can never erase his pain; without accepting the Lord's Will, he wanders lost and confused. ||7||
    - Guru Nanak, Raag Maaroo, 1034

    --------------------------------------------​

    From my personal experience, during meditation one should focus and concentrate the mind ( for best result ) on :

    Gur ki murat man main dhiyan
    Gur ka shabad mantar man maan
    ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਧਿਆਨੁ ।।
    ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਮੰਤੁ੍ਰ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨ ।। (pana 864)

    Some recommended reading:

    1. "Bandgi Nama" by Bhai Raghbir Singh Bir
    2. "Simran Mehma" by Raghbir Singh Bir
    3. "Surat Shabad Marag" Sant Waryam Singh Ji
    4. "Biography of Sant Attar Singh Ji" by Sant Teja Singh Ji

    For Naam Simran besides spiritual knowledge, regular practice is a must!
     
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  7. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Re: Help....

    I agree with Soul_Jyot ji

    Regular practice is a must -- and along with that - tuning out theoretical discussions is also a must. It is not theoretical.
     
  8. Mai Harinder Kaur

    Mai Harinder Kaur
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    Regular practice is certainly a must! At first it's difficult; soon it becomes something you just can't miss.

    Motive is important, too. If you are doing it because you expect something to happen, probably you'll be disappointed. If you do it as an experiment, you will probably get results of some sort. If you do it from love of Vaheguru, it won't matter whether you get results or not!

    A dear friend of mine who has written several books on Naam-jap has said repeatedly, "There is no wrong way to jap Naam. The important thing is to do it." There is the kind where you sit and do it, concentrating on nothing else. This is most refreshing to me. There is also just singing "Waheguru" to whatever tune or rhythm that comes to mind while doing normal household stuff. My parrot now has the habit of squawking out "Vaheguru" at odd times for no apparent reason. I often do it while I'm queuing up in the grocery store, silently, as not to annoy others or get hauled away by the sanity police (who just don't understand this sort of thing).

    I beg to disagree; you did not fail. You asked for help , which is a huge success of need over ego. I award you a Gold Star. :star:

    :wah::wah::wah:

    :ice:
     
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  9. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    That is so kind of you to state things like that. I am grateful for this.

    Well, if consider various tuks of Granth sahib we find that the entire Granth has, probably one message and that is the praise of naam. Guru sahibs have given all sort of metaphors in the praise of Naam. The First two Ashtpadis of sukhmani sahib are devoted to the Naam. I am giving below one or two to substantiate this.

    gur syvw qy nwmy lwgw ] (236-2, gauVI, mÚ 5)
    Serving the Guru, one is committed to the Naam, the Name of the Lord.

    hir kw nwmu soeI jnu lyie ] (240-9, gauVI, mÚ 5)
    That humble being repeats the Name of the Lord,
    kir ikrpw nwnk ijsu dyie ]8]10] (240-9, gauVI, mÚ 5)

    Nam appears to be the main topic of the Granth.
    'If there is Nam I live, if Not I die' [p-1198]

    Nam s everywhere ,it is inside and it is out side.It is within and it is without within. Although It is not stated directly in the Granth but I presume that Nam should get manifest when the Nam within has a yearning to meet the Nam without within. It is possible when the 'haumein' is removed from the mind and that can be done again by Nam simran or Nam -jap. Thus the soul that is separated from the larger soul intends to meet the Bigger one from which it is separated so that the subject[soul] meets with the object[bigger Soul-universal consciousness] and the difference or the barrier of ego is removed.


    Nam is to be praised in the manner that is stated in the Granth and there seems to be no need of quoting various tuks in this regard that the same is obtainable only if He is kind and takes mercy on the poor creatures. It is HIS grace only that is to be invoked, May be by truthful living after becoming Sachiara [japu ji sahib].Unless this is done naam cannot be obtained.

    Yes, Nam has to be praised through constant repetition with single -pointed concentration.But then there are some other lines also that state that ,probably, it may not be correct. Or at least, it may not be the only criteria for obtaining Naam.

    We shall discuss it out at appropriate time.Let us take this thread in the following parts:

    1.Nature of naam
    2.Is Naam meant for simran.?
    3.Is it the name of Lord or something else as well.?
    4.What is the contribution of sikhi in the development of 'Naam', a concept that is absent in other religions.?

    You may opine as well so that we work on it together.


    Regards.!
     
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