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Hazur Sahib Tilak Question?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Randip Singh, Jan 17, 2009.

  1. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
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    YouTube - Hazur sahib jhatka for tilak part1

    Don't watch the clip, if you are squeamish, but I was wondering about this ceremony at Hazur Sahib. Is it to commemorate the 10th Master killing Bandha Bahadhurs goat to feed his men?
     
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  3. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    You could be absolutley right s. Randip singh jio....
     
  4. Randip Singh

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    I don't know you see.

    One thing I find fascinating about Hazur'y Sikh's is that they are probably about the closest thing we have to how the tenth master practised Sikhism. They have not been corrupted by the "Vaishnavite" influences that have corrupted Sikhs in Punjab. They settled there from the time of the 10th Guru so just carried on his traditions. They have a very strong martial tradition (something many of todays Sikhs are losing). They are away from the politics of Punjab. Caste is not something they seem concerned about.

    Maybe we should ALL start to follow the Hazuree Sikh example?:happy:
     
  5. pk70

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    Randip Singh ji
    Please give me a few reasons beyond veg/non veg theory that Hazori Sikhs are not corrupt as Sikhs are in other places?
    Do you think, in that particular place Sikh tradition from Tenth Master was kept where he hardly lived for a few years and where he spent most of his life, tradition has died, how it is possible? How it is possible that only Hazor sahib is the only place that remains intact of other influences? How they have become examples to be followed? To do Jhatka and not believing in Caste system are enough to become a model role for Sikhs? Kindly elaborate with facts if you are serous to consider them models to follow.:)
     
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  6. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Personally I wouldnt have anything to do with anything "Hazooree"......imho they are NOT following Gurmatt as in the SGGS.....far from it. just my own opinion.
     
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  7. Randip Singh

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    Forget the non-veg veg thing...that runs in Punjab.

    I am more interested in the Vaishnavite influences that seem predominant in Punjab.

    Hi Gyani ji,

    What is it you find objectionable about the Hazuree Sikh's?
     
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  8. Archived_member7

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    The biggest point is ..Hazoor Sahib has not JATTS :D

    so No JATT VAAD ...No ego filled Punjabiyat...I have been there and interacted they are simplier..lack Haume...Amritsar Sahib..has vaishnav Pundits...too many wannabe gurus..as we enter the complex...we have a bibi 'instructing' my wife..to cover her head..well..thats what i call in Hinglish as tokofying..tokde rehna ...as if its only them to know all ...
     
  9. Randip Singh

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    I must visit this place to see for myself. I am really fascinated by the variations on Sikhi. From 3HO, to Afghani Sikhs to Kala Sikhs in Kenya to Hazuree Sikhs....how diverse.

    PS I am sure there were some Jatts with Guru Gobind Singh ji originally, they probably just intermarried and now are all Sikh. You are right about the Punjabiat hangup's though.
     
  10. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    randip singh jio
    gurfateh.

    I am not referring to Hazuree SIKHS....i am referring to the type of "Sikhi" practised at Hazir sahib... all those aartees//alias aartaas.... tallis..talls...lighted lamps ghee jyots....monis and weapons tilak with goats blood etc etc.

    The Hazuree SIKHS are just as human as anyone else...and I have visited them and their homes..fascinating people
     
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  11. Randip Singh

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    I see ....do you think it is a cultural thing or maybe these rituals hark back to the times of the Guru's. Maybe they , by being away from Punjab have in efefct been caught in a time capsule since the time of the 10th Master?:confused:
     
  12. harmanpreet singh

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    These ppl s have converted takhat hazoor sahib into a temple with sacrifices, aarti with lamps , unusal practice that only the jathedar sahib like a brahmin can go inside a room , he never marry throughout his life , he will never go out from nanded , they bang bells , put tikaks on forehead , gave you parshad of narial and much more .....................


    Fateh
     
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  13. pk70

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    This is also called high jacking of a religion to reduce to a display of Brahmanism- show Guru Nanak worked hard against. Traditions some times are polished to attract to a suicidal mission. Hail the new Brahmans in Guru Ghar !!!!!!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:
     
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  14. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Randip Singh Jio
    Gurfateh.

    NO I dont think so....remember the same things ( and maybe even MORE) were prevalent in Punjab...until the SINGH SABHA LEHR and Scholars like Gurmukh Singh Ditt Singh came along to change things. The Harmandar Sahib Amrtisar was chock full of Hindu Idols..Ganehsas and Sarswatis..and shiv lings were all over the place until the Singh Sabha Movement took control of all PUNJAB GURDWARAS.
    The two Takhats OUTSIDE PUNJAB..Patna and Hazoor Nanded NEVER came under the Sinmgh Sabha Lehr....thus Sikhs who always wanted a ALL INDIA Gurdwra Act (SGPC) Never got it. These two takhats are under DIRECT Govt Control through Management Boards...while SGPC is limited to Punajb and neighbourign regions that were Undiuvded Punjab earlier (Haryana/Himachal) and the Delhi Gurdwaras have the DGMC which is elected by delhi Sikhs.
     
  15. spnadmin

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    Gyani ji

    I am curious about these historical points. The Delhi Gurdwaras are managed by DGMC. In your opinion, is this a better arrangement? By that I mean -- the stakeholders within Sikhi in the Delhi area have immediate input. Am I understanding the difference as to how and who manages the Gurdwaras correctly?
     
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  16. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Antonia Jio,
    Gurfateh.

    "better" or not..its what we have got to live with under the circumstances.
    The Singh Sabha Lehr..subsequent liberation of Gurdwaras from the Nirmalas/Udassis Mahants...and restoration of the Sikh Rehat Maryada as per SGGS/Khalsa rather than Brahminical/Hindu ritualism..and creation of the SGPC/Akali Dal were steps in the right direction....BUT sadly stopped far short of the ideal.
    The Mahants were there becasue the British wanted the Sikhi/Gurmatt reduced to mere rituals so that the Sikhs would be more plaible/compliant rather than rebel...so when the Kaum forced the British to restore the Gurdwars to Sikhs..the British kept a few things back....1. The SGPC is "elected" by Sikh Voters..BUT the ELECTION PROCESS is under the Central Govt. Thus....the Late Gurcharan Singh Tohra remained SGPC President ofr nearly 20 odd Years simply because the GOVT refused on one pretext or other to schedule Elections of the SGPC !! Tohra came from a COMMUNIST BACKGROUND....and is the man most responsible for the DEGRADATION in the SGPC today....thus we can see the CENTRAL GOVT..British or Indian...seeks to CONTROL the Sikh Gurdwaras...any which way they can. The Tohra Administration saw the wholesale recruitment of "keshadharee atheists" into all levels opf the Gurdwara Management...also High posts were given to RADHA SOAMIS...who got control of the Sikh reference Library.....several valuable books and manuscripts went missing....over the decades.....even before the Wholesale destruction in 1984.
    All the time the SIKH KAUM was strong and steadfast to their SRM/SGGS..the Central Govt fought tooth and nail agaisnt the All India Gurdwara ACT....but NOW after 50 years of relentless undemining....that the situation is REVERSED...FAKE Brahminised Sikhs control virtually all Gurdwaras/Takhats/SGPC is entirely Corrupt....the Centr is bending over backwards to push for the All India Gurdwara ACT.....so as to UNIFORMALLY spread the ROT in each and every Gurdwara Managemnt......NOW its saner sikhs who demand that LOCAL SIKHS control their own Gurdwaras....like in Haryana..Himachal..Delhi..Bombay...and so on so that the entire edifice wont be rotten due to control from a rotten "centre" like the SGPC/ALL INdia SGPC !!
    There are voices being rasied in the Diaspora that Foreign Sikhs hwo have no representation in the SGPC and are under no obligation to Indian Laws..should formulate LOCAL Managements as per SRR/SGGS ONLY...and refuse to follow WRONG directions from SGPC/Akal Takhat etc...Thus the American Gurdwara Parbhandak Com..the Pakistan Gurdwara Parbhandak Com.. the Malaysian Gurdwaras Council..etc etc.

    The Historical situation is akin to what happened in Christianity around 1500. One faction that is still "Centrally Controlled" is the Catholic Church in Rome....while ALL the Progressive elements broke away and formed their own Churches.

    I would hope that the SGPC is REFORMED to its former GLORY..and ALL Gurdwaras WORLWIDE follow its LEAD....BUT if that is a pipe dream...then its better that "small pockets" of greenery remain and thrive among the Forest Fires sweeping...KOi Haria Boot rahio Ree says Nanak !!
     
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  17. Jassi_k

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    Last time I checked there wasn't supposed to be any killing in Gurdwara. Sevadaar are not even allowed to cook meat in their rooms.

    "Don't watch the clip, if you are squeamish, but I was wondering about this ceremony at Hazur Sahib. Is it to commemorate the 10th Master killing Bandha Bahadhurs goat to feed his men?"

    Randip Singh Ji, I may not be right but I think 10th Master killed it because they did NOT have anything else to eat at that particular moment. It's quite disturbing to see all this happening in Gurdwara.
     
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  18. Randip Singh

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    The goat thing I have seen at other Gurudwara's in Punjab too, especially at time of Holla Mohalla and the meat is eaten as Mahaprashad. In anycase that has never been an issue for me.

    I am confused about all the other things they do at the Gurudwara's. I am concerened more about the ritualism, and I would like to know more. I have ordered a book http://www.sikhism.us/sikhism-book-...rs-presence-sikhs-hazoor-sahib.html#post92621 maybe that may shed some light on this issue.
     
  19. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Randip Singh Ji..
    The writer of that book....Nihang Niddar Singh is seen in a You Tube video "gheraoed" by the Nihungs in Hazoor sahib and being forced to write an APOLOGY for mistakes in it...the Panthic weekly highlighted the video earlier. You may Google it as i have deleted the link after watching it.:confused: ?? you may be further confused ??
     
  20. dalsingh

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    Thanks for the post. Fascinating stuff, even if I don't fully understand it myself.
     
  21. Randip Singh

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    If Panthic Weekly are ridiculing Nihang Niddar Singh then the guy must be a Saint !!!! :happy:

    In anycase Parmjit Singh had input into it (Sikhs Warriors and Saint's and Siques, Tigers and Thieves ) so it may not be that confusing.
     

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