• Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
    Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
    Sign up Log in

Halal Or Not Halal: What Is The Difference? By Amar Prakash Singh

Randip Singh

Writer
Historian
SPNer
May 25, 2005
2,935
2,949
55
United Kingdom
Randip ji,the jatkha is a ritual,please explain the significance of killing a goat in that manner in a temple and then wiping its blood on swords.

Jhatka just means one blow (which the video demostrates).

What follows in the video is ShastarTilak ( a ritual). This ritual has no meaning in Sikhi.

What Zahim is explqaining to you is qurbani eid,which yes does signify the prophet Abrahams actions to prove his belief in God.Not halal food which is killed for neccesity and in the manner i have described,this is a mistake on Zahims part,so we have a situation of the blind leading the blind.


No its not because The Halal food authority that I linked above describes Halal as such.

Halal Food Authority: Definition Of Halal (About HFA)

Apart from slaughtering methods we have to ensure that the animals for the Islamic ritual slaughter are raised and procured from farms

Reputable source for you is Hanover university where trials were conducted with eeg and ecg monitors connected when the 2 types of killing were done.

Talk is cheap.

Please furnish links and evidence.

There is nothing meaningless about the halal way of killing,it is designed to protect you,so please do not put words in my nmouth,if you are unable to understand then just ask for clarification.

Correction.

There is nothing meaningless about Halal for a Muslim. Halal is meaningless however for every other religion on the planet. For a Sikh Halal is forbidden.



I am assuming that you do understand thatAllah is arabic for god as satnam is punjabi for god,so with this clarification please re-read the Wikipedia definition on which you place such high regard.

The wikipedia definition clearly refers to Halal as a ritual.
 

oracle1

SPNer
Feb 1, 2010
8
1
The ritual has to have meaning for it to take place.
We can argue on definitions of ritual,halal is a way of killing during which gods name is taken in thanks .
It is not talk,if you desitre the knowledge,seek and ye shall find.
For a sikh meat is forbidden,yet sikhs will say it is ok to eat pork but let us not eat halal.
I think that rather than put so much energy into the halal debate i for one would be happier if sikhs would adress the issues of alcohol and other damaging behaviour amongst sikhs.I would be happy if sikhs lived their life according to guru nanak,because then there would be peace and understanding
 
Jan 14, 2010
48
28
Why are you discussing why or how the Islamic ritual procedure for preparing meat huh?

If you don't agree with it as your texts prohibit, do you want halal or something??::cool:2:
I read there is lots of ambivalence in your meat issues, at least in Islam we don't have this problem....

khodaa negahdorr

dear friend

we r discussing it bcoz you people are making fool of yourself and others by saying that its is scientific
 
Jan 14, 2010
48
28
The ritual has to have meaning for it to take place.
We can argue on definitions of ritual,halal is a way of killing during which gods name is taken in thanks .
It is not talk,if you desitre the knowledge,seek and ye shall find.
For a sikh meat is forbidden,yet sikhs will say it is ok to eat pork but let us not eat halal.
I think that rather than put so much energy into the halal debate i for one would be happier if sikhs would adress the issues of alcohol and other damaging behaviour amongst sikhs.I would be happy if sikhs lived their life according to guru nanak,because then there would be peace and understanding

dear brother

if halal is not a ritual and its thanks given to god for the food he has given to you then without giving thanks to god can you still eat animal ???? or let me put in this way do you thanks god when you cut vegetables also to mak e that vegetable halal or halal is only associated to slaughtering animal ??/

brother go back to your book and giive me answer to this question

IS HALAL IS ONLY ASSOCIATED TO SLAUGHTERING OF ANIMAL ONLY ????:mad:
 
Jan 14, 2010
48
28
From a biological point of view, I would like to say that eating any non halal or kosher meat can actually be quite bad. The big supermarket chains produce meats on a mass level and as a result feed growth hormones to the animals (basically injecting a dead animal into a live one in order for it to grow rapidly). These growth hormones are not healthy for human consumption over a period of time - any meat that has been reared in this way and consumed by human's is one of the main causes of cancer (especially bowel and breast cancer) and other diseases, not to mention how unhealthy processed meat is. The supermarket chains have no concern for the health of the masses, they just look to make as much money as possible.
The concept of feeding growth hormones in Islam as well as Judaism is not an acceptable type of meat to be eaten, i.e. haram. (Islam forbids the eating of carnivorous animals and Judaism, as with Islam, forbids eating the blood of an animal). God has therefore protected them from these diseases which were relatively unheard of before the mass production of meat in this way.
Therefore I believe if you are going to eat meat, kosher or halal is a lot more healthier. I do not believe the prayers said are a bad thing. If Sikh's accept anyone in the Gurduwara to say the Sikh prayer on the basis that God is one then it makes no difference who says the prayer, the prayer is still to God, Satnam, the creator of everyone, Sikh, Muslim, Jew, Hindu etc etc. I understand the ritualistic issue, but as Guru Nanak Ji said, the topic of what one eat's isn't a big issue, so I think if it's healthier to eat the meat where the animal's have been reared with care, I cannot see the problem.
But I must say to Zahir Ji, there is no point in getting offended by what is a discussion. There should not be any animosity between Sikh's, Muslim's, Hindu's, Christians, Jew's etc etc. We are all equally God's children and no one is disrespecting any religion, just debating what is good to put into our bodies - there are many websites on the internet which glorify sex, drugs, alcohol, murders etc etc. Offence should be taken there and not here. I for one have a lot of respect for the religion of Islam and feel hurt by the injustices that the religion is being faced with at the moment. It does not help your cause if the moment your religion is being mentioned you get defensive. You should promote peace by explaining your view and not anomosity by getting defensive.
]
dear oracle

what u r saying from biological point of view by not eating halal is bad... why you think so ?/ tel me what is the scientific fanda behind halal.


you have very rightly pointed The big supermarket chains produce meats on a mass level and as a result feed growth hormones to the animals (basically injecting a dead animal into a live one in order for it to grow rapidly). but did you ever thought why they feed hormones yes again you r right for it to grow rapidly.but why these big super market want to sell this hormone injected meat, infact they dont have other choice the demand is so huge to fulfill that demand the persons who do farming to these animals cant cope up the market demand that is why they want their animal shud grow fastely thus injecting of hormones comes into picture. but let me ask you one question why this demand is increasing did you ever thought of it it is because the population is increasing day by day,and if u see the numbers of population of muslims r increasing more as compared to others bcoz in islam control in birth is haram which is practically non scientific, if popluation is not controlled the resources will decreases that is why to produce more and more animals hormones injection r being used????/ now good scientific sense is prevalling in all scientific muslim brothers , slowly and slowly they r doing family planning:yes:
now listen to clear your misconception halal meat is not free from hormones ok even the vegetables we eat today is infected with chemicals bccause our earth cannot produce more and more as per need of our growing population, that is why we put chemicals ( UREA) in ground to produce more and more crops, vegetables.

lastly i would say prophet mohmmd had made blunder by not telling you people to do family planning.:eek:


why you think halal is more healthier???? give any reason or logical behind it. it is good to say prayer but why especially when you slaughter animal and not when u cut vegetable ?????

I need your view's and comments hope you wil not mind ???
 

oracle1

SPNer
Feb 1, 2010
8
1
engineer saab,
firstly it is manny who has posted the thread you are commenting upon.No problem though as the points you are raising come within the scope of my personal education.Halal meat is healthier because its method of rearing is natural and not like the big chains.You attribute the need for speedy growth to the increase in demand,this is not the case.The need for speedy production is more to do with profit maximisation.
Anti globalisation protesters are aware of the need by the corporations for excessive profits at all costs including human.It is the world bank who forced Indian farmers to sparay their crops in return for their so called help and therebt poisoning a whole population.
Secondly,drawing upon my knowledge of biology the purging of the blood reduces the possibility of catching any disease,this is not an earth shattering statement by myself but common knowledge to anyone educated to a reasonable standard.
The birth control issue if we compare 2 neighbours applies to India,a predominately Hindu country and majority non meat eater, more than Pakistan,a muslim country and meat eater.The majority of meat consumed is in the west,and it is these consumers who requiire a huge volume of food and at a cheap price which is doing the damage.India has an army which is equal to the entire population of Pakistan.Birth control is not banned in Islam and has always been practised.
Muslims not only thank god when they cut vegetables but also when thry eat them,regrdless of any differences in monotheistic religion,there is i hope one consensus,god has created and provided everything.
Zahim,i have always said from the beggining that islam does not say it is scientific,but that science has tested the contents and has to agree with them.Do not think for one moment that science was testing for noble purposes,their aim was more to discredit the religion.All religion has scientists as enemies,because science believes in the religion of creationism,but they only succeed in explaining the mechanics and not who created.Up to today science has been unable to produce even a single cell being,all they can do is copy gods work.
 

Randip Singh

Writer
Historian
SPNer
May 25, 2005
2,935
2,949
55
United Kingdom
The ritual has to have meaning for it to take place.
We can argue on definitions of ritual,halal is a way of killing during which gods name is taken in thanks .


The crux of the issue is that you have a problem with Halal being described as a ritual, or sacrifice. I think I have provided enough evidence to prove that it is one. All be it one of purification/permissibility.

It is not talk,if you desitre the knowledge,seek and ye shall find.


The same applies to you.

You have yet to furnish one piece of evidence.

For a sikh meat is forbidden,yet sikhs will say it is ok to eat pork but let us not eat halal.


NO

Meat is not forbidden for a Sikh. It is a personal choice.

There are various Sects/Cults/ within Sikhism that insist on Vegetarianism within Sikhi.

In Islam I understand there are many sects too, and ones that disagree on many issues.

I think that rather than put so much energy into the halal debate i for one would be happier if sikhs would adress the issues of alcohol and other damaging behaviour amongst sikhs.I would be happy if sikhs lived their life according to guru nanak,because then there would be peace and understanding


We have no problem for Halal. We are happy for mUslims to carry on eating Halal. The only thing we ask is for Muslims to respect other faiths and not force them to have Halal too. If others chose to have “Haram”, that is there business. Would you not agree?

On the point of Alcohol, you are correct, but the issue of drugs and alcohol affects Muslims too in vast numbers. I do voluntary work in that sector, and I find many Muslims who have problems in that area.:welcome:
 
Jan 29, 2010
40
1
Tehran
The only one here who seems to be speaking any sense is Manny.Zahim,Kosher meat is lawful for muslims and the notion that a Sikh or Hindu would slaughter an animal is laughable.As for Tejwant and his comparison of slaughtering an animal the islamic way to a ritual is hogwash,to coin a phrase Randip is so fond of.The throat is cut in that manner because it is now scientfically proven to be the least painful way,Gods name is said to thank him for the animal he has created for our sustenance.Tejwant please read the Oxford dictionary for the meaning of ritual and please do not make up a meaning to illustarte a point.As for referring to the one god as Abrahamic,it is the same one god you pray to,God has said that he is the creator and he is the one to judge our differences.Zahim, Tejwantand Randip please do not make up facts about a religion which you clearly do not have a full understanding of.It is incumbent upon muslims and Sikhs to search for the truth,i suggest this would be a good course of action for you all.Congratulations Manny for your objective and fact based comments:cool::cool:

Sorry Oracle, I got lost with the overwhelming fluff since I last posted. There are common rules Jews have with Shia such as not eating Shellfish, whereas in Sunni Islam all seafood is halal, yet within the Hanafi school of thought, the stronger position is that shellfish (shrimp, lobster, crab, clams, etc.) are prohibited. But in the other three schools (Malaki, Shafi, Hanbali) crab and lobster are permissible.

As for the sikh, I dont know what space there is to decide for oneself what is ethical ?
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,028
7,188
Henderson, NV.
Sorry Oracle, I got lost with the overwhelming fluff since I last posted. There are common rules Jews have with Shia such as not eating Shellfish, whereas in Sunni Islam all seafood is halal, yet within the Hanafi school of thought, the stronger position is that shellfish (shrimp, lobster, crab, clams, etc.) are prohibited. But in the other three schools (Malaki, Shafi, Hanbali) crab and lobster are permissible.

As for the sikh, I dont know what space there is to decide for oneself what is ethical ?

Zahim,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for the post and your post is the proof that you got it all upside down. According to you it is in Islam and its different schools of thought. They are the one who decide what is ethical and what is not which is very confusing and also misleading at the same time because all this is based on man made dogmas.For some Muslims the same is Halal and for the others the same is Haram.

Thanks for showing the total lack of ethics in Islam in such an open and honest manner. The left hand has no idea what the right one is doing.

As far as Sikhi is concerned, Jhatka and all seafood is OK to eat so there are no dubious lines in the sand as in Islam the way you have explained it so beautifully.

Tejwant Singh
 
Jan 14, 2010
48
28
engineer saab,
firstly it is manny who has posted the thread you are commenting upon.No problem though as the points you are raising come within the scope of my personal education.Halal meat is healthier because its method of rearing is natural and not like the big chains.You attribute the need for speedy growth to the increase in demand,this is not the case.The need for speedy production is more to do with profit maximisation.
Anti globalisation protesters are aware of the need by the corporations for excessive profits at all costs including human.It is the world bank who forced Indian farmers to sparay their crops in return for their so called help and therebt poisoning a whole population.
Secondly,drawing upon my knowledge of biology the purging of the blood reduces the possibility of catching any disease,this is not an earth shattering statement by myself but common knowledge to anyone educated to a reasonable standard.
The birth control issue if we compare 2 neighbours applies to India,a predominately Hindu country and majority non meat eater, more than Pakistan,a muslim country and meat eater.The majority of meat consumed is in the west,and it is these consumers who requiire a huge volume of food and at a cheap price which is doing the damage.India has an army which is equal to the entire population of Pakistan.Birth control is not banned in Islam and has always been practised.
Muslims not only thank god when they cut vegetables but also when thry eat them,regrdless of any differences in monotheistic religion,there is i hope one consensus,god has created and provided everything.
Zahim,i have always said from the beggining that islam does not say it is scientific,but that science has tested the contents and has to agree with them.Do not think for one moment that science was testing for noble purposes,their aim was more to discredit the religion.All religion has scientists as enemies,because science believes in the religion of creationism,but they only succeed in explaining the mechanics and not who created.Up to today science has been unable to produce even a single cell being,all they can do is copy gods work.

dear oracle
you have written
Halal meat is healthier because its method of rearing is natural and not like the big chains

may be you r taking about pakistan. but see all around the world there are big chanins and they rear animals by injecting hormones kindly check it bcoz in devolped countries people dont have enough time to do halal as perscribed in islam. you know they have changed the slaughtering manner now its what called MACHINE CUT where machine slaughter animals adburptly..

It is the world bank who forced Indian farmers to sparay their crops in return for their so called help and therebt poisoning a whole population.

you may be right by saying above lines but what to do when demand is more and supply is less in that case if we have to fulfill the need of people then that sparays con\mes into picture.
that is what i was explaning you that when population increases then demand also increases.

The majority of meat consumed is in the west,and it is these consumers who requiire a huge volume of food and at a cheap price which is doing the damage.

but as per my knowledge that more and more people in west r turning into vegss.

India has an army which is equal to the entire population of Pakistan.Birth control is not banned in Islam and has always been practised.

by writing this you didnot got my point let me explain you with example.

consider 10 couples who r non muslim.
they have 2 kids minum so 10 X2=20 new borns there fore total population of 10 non muslim person is 10+20=30

now see the case of 10 couples who r muslims
they have more then 2 kids approx. 4 to 5 nos.

so their nos.comes 10X5=50
so theire total nos is 10+50=60

almost double then mn muslim.
hope now you got it. LOok i am talking about whole world dont compare only india and pakistan

in islam r u sure family planning is there????? kindly see into this bcoz i have heard frm lots of muslim that its God gift so in koran its written that we dont have to do family planning.

Muslims not only thank god when they cut vegetables but also when thry eat them,regrdless of any differences in monotheistic religion,there is i hope one consensus,god has created and provided everything.

ok I agree with you then, why it is compulsory to do that ritual in case of slaughtering of animal not in ct\utting of vegetables????

Zahim,i have always said from the beggining that islam does not say it is scientific,but that science has tested the contents and has to agree with them.Do not think for one moment that science was testing for noble purposes,their aim was more to discredit the religion.All religion has scientists as enemies,because science believes in the religion of creationism,but they only succeed in explaining the mechanics and not who created.Up to today science has been unable to produce even a single cell being,all they can do is copy gods work.[/

here I agree with you with out any issue that is what i wanted to say yo people that all religion comes into picture by the wil of GOD, so why muslims always say that Islam is best that not good bcoz when you say this you challege you own book where you say not a single leave can move without the will of God,then how other religions came without the will of GOD?????

moreover in all other religion their are things which science has testeed and agree.

frankly speacking no religion is 100% prefect not even Islam. I can give u lots of reasons for my statement

hope you got it what i wanted to convey you, my aim is to promote universal brotherhood inspite of caste, colour, religion.which my faith is all about.

wedont believe in number game we believe in quality.:happy:
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
Bmandur ji

Fateh! Please do not continue copying the replies of others as here and in another thread recently.

You can quote what another has said, but also please contribute your own words and thoughts.

Forgive me if I seem to be reprimanding you. I am only hoping to hear what you are thinking because your thoughts are good. :happykaur:
 

Bmandur

SPNer
May 15, 2008
198
235
Canada
Narayanjot Ji
Sorry to say but I am daughter of Binder Mandur. I sat few times in her study room I saw the window open and I read it I loved it also I was trying to change few things and I loved the artical among others articals so I wanted others to read it

Thank you

Preet
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
preet ji

I appreciate the explanation. The copying of statements by other forum members has been causing confusion. So it is between you and your mother if you use her identity to log on. But we have a rule that prohibits the posting of remarks previously posted by another as if they were your own (another recent example being the re-posting of an article by IJ Singh twice in the same thread).

From our TOS,

12. Plagiarism is STRICTLY FORBIDDEN. If you copy posts from others and pass them as if they're yours, you will be severely punished.

I really doubt the part that says, "you will be severely punished," is needed -- because it won't get to that point. Please try to understand admin's predicament. Thank you.
 

explorer

SPNer
Mar 27, 2006
34
14
The discussion over the issue of meat always goes into an inconclusive state.

Grains and plant products are not killed to get any food from them, their are used at the end of their life-cycle in a productive way. If we donot pluck flowers/fruits or grains they are going to be wasted only.

However the animal case is different; they are a part of the food cycle for the animals themselves in a specific order.

Call it evolution/science(I prefer to call it Hukam) every animal know its diet.

Incase of humans; idea of food is not limited to survival; its more than that : its about taste; smell; appearance ; status ; hygiene ; etc etc.
Although the basic idea of food is about health & survival.

Guru Nanak Dev has already said that arguing over meat is foolishness.
however he has also criticised brahmins about their dubious character in "Asa ki Vaar" regarding meat.

As per sikhism, the idea of food is about survival; to be healthy enough to remember gods name.

For a sikh, the SRM becomes the guiding factor and it clearly states that :
"Abhakhya the kutha nahi khaana"

The Rehat Maryada is a code conduct for sikhs only; however SGGS is guiding light for everyone.

In SGGS, if Guru Nanak Dev ji criticizes the clever brahman about the "abhakhya ka kutha" ; Bhagat Kabeer Sahib asks the devout muslims " Jab sab mein ek khudaaye kahat ho, tau kyon murgi maare"

If you say that there is one god in all of us, why slaughter a hen?

The point to be understood is that he is also criticizing the ritualistic aspect that on one side as a muslim you are keeping fast and offering prayer; on the other side by the same evening you are slaughtering hen for food.

Now the question comes is why is jhatka allowed in sikh way of life.

1> Survival Time : Desires take back seat; the concern is to life and its survival; the mind is already in prayers; killing any animal for food is ok.

2> Halal is not only slowly killing the animal; its all about justifying the killing in the name of God.
================================================

For Sikhs, we must adapt to the underlying message of Gurbani and follow Rehat.

For other, read through Gurbani in pursuit of learning(how to praise god and be one with).

Wise are the one who seek more and quarrel not!!
=======================================
 

Randip Singh

Writer
Historian
SPNer
May 25, 2005
2,935
2,949
55
United Kingdom
The discussion over the issue of meat always goes into an inconclusive state.

Grains and plant products are not killed to get any food from them, their are used at the end of their life-cycle in a productive way. If we donot pluck flowers/fruits or grains they are going to be wasted only.

However the animal case is different; they are a part of the food cycle for the animals themselves in a specific order.

Call it evolution/science(I prefer to call it Hukam) every animal know its diet.

Incase of humans; idea of food is not limited to survival; its more than that : its about taste; smell; appearance ; status ; hygiene ; etc etc.
Although the basic idea of food is about health & survival.

Guru Nanak Dev has already said that arguing over meat is foolishness.
however he has also criticised brahmins about their dubious character in "Asa ki Vaar" regarding meat.

As per sikhism, the idea of food is about survival; to be healthy enough to remember gods name.

For a sikh, the SRM becomes the guiding factor and it clearly states that :
"Abhakhya the kutha nahi khaana"

The Rehat Maryada is a code conduct for sikhs only; however SGGS is guiding light for everyone.

In SGGS, if Guru Nanak Dev ji criticizes the clever brahman about the "abhakhya ka kutha" ; Bhagat Kabeer Sahib asks the devout muslims " Jab sab mein ek khudaaye kahat ho, tau kyon murgi maare"

If you say that there is one god in all of us, why slaughter a hen?

The point to be understood is that he is also criticizing the ritualistic aspect that on one side as a muslim you are keeping fast and offering prayer; on the other side by the same evening you are slaughtering hen for food.

Now the question comes is why is jhatka allowed in sikh way of life.

1> Survival Time : Desires take back seat; the concern is to life and its survival; the mind is already in prayers; killing any animal for food is ok.

2> Halal is not only slowly killing the animal; its all about justifying the killing in the name of God.
================================================

For Sikhs, we must adapt to the underlying message of Gurbani and follow Rehat.

For other, read through Gurbani in pursuit of learning(how to praise god and be one with).

Wise are the one who seek more and quarrel not!!
=======================================

I agree with you on every thing apart from this statement.

Grains and plant products are not killed to get any food from them, their are used at the end of their life-cycle in a productive way. If we donot pluck flowers/fruits or grains they are going to be wasted only.

However the animal case is different; they are a part of the food cycle for the animals themselves in a specific order.

Call it evolution/science(I prefer to call it Hukam) every animal know its diet.

Grains life is ended in a productive way?

Animals are part of the food cycle in a specific order?

Please clarify, but I would ask you to read the follwoing first:

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/8828-fools-who-wrangle-over-flesh.html
 

explorer

SPNer
Mar 27, 2006
34
14
1> For Grains, there are two options after become ripe; either they eaten by humans/animals or they get sown as seed to germinate again to produce more grains in the next cycle.

Without these two there would no use of grains; what i could think of.

2> Animals are a part food cycle for animals : "Jeeyan ka aahaar jee" Although this was written about the fish; the same applied to animals in jungle.
A tiger does not eat apples and a deer doesnot kill rabbit.
Apart from this animals also kill each other as a part of survival competition rather than food.

Thanks for sharing the detailed thread; however I would need time to go through that in detail.
 

Randip Singh

Writer
Historian
SPNer
May 25, 2005
2,935
2,949
55
United Kingdom
1> For Grains, there are two options after become ripe; either they eaten by humans/animals or they get sown as seed to germinate again to produce more grains in the next cycle.

Without these two there would no use of grains; what i could think of.

2> Animals are a part food cycle for animals : "Jeeyan ka aahaar jee" Although this was written about the fish; the same applied to animals in jungle.
A tiger does not eat apples and a deer doesnot kill rabbit.
Apart from this animals also kill each other as a part of survival competition rather than food.

Thanks for sharing the detailed thread; however I would need time to go through that in detail.

1) On point 1 yes plants are part of the food cycle for animals and humans.

2) On point 2 animals are part of the food cycle for animals and humans too.

I cannot see why one is being differentiated?
 

explorer

SPNer
Mar 27, 2006
34
14
The differentiation is not just for the sake of it.

My point was simple that in case of humans the idea of food is not limited to survival only and influenced by the other factors too..... and in normal lifestyle the other factore play more crucial role.

A general observation would let us understand that the different types of foods and their varieties which are available to human being are far in number as compared to animals which go by their biological instinct primarily when deciding about the food.

Pls see i am not saying that one who is eating meat is a bad guy. i understand that there are lot of people who donot have easy choices in food based on the areas they live.

Lets keep it simple.

If we only eat when we feel hungry then there is no problem; however there is lot of eating we do which is desire based rather need based.
and this is may be veggie and non-veggie stuff.

And with desire in drivers seat control is lost, now whether you are eat meat or non-meat is not making a difference.
===================

Frankly speaking, I myself donot remember a day when i ate just for survival only; a lot of desire is already there when I start deciding what to eat.
 

Randip Singh

Writer
Historian
SPNer
May 25, 2005
2,935
2,949
55
United Kingdom
The differentiation is not just for the sake of it.

My point was simple that in case of humans the idea of food is not limited to survival only and influenced by the other factors too..... and in normal lifestyle the other factore play more crucial role.

A general observation would let us understand that the different types of foods and their varieties which are available to human being are far in number as compared to animals which go by their biological instinct primarily when deciding about the food.

Pls see i am not saying that one who is eating meat is a bad guy. i understand that there are lot of people who donot have easy choices in food based on the areas they live.

Lets keep it simple.

If we only eat when we feel hungry then there is no problem; however there is lot of eating we do which is desire based rather need based.
and this is may be veggie and non-veggie stuff.

And with desire in drivers seat control is lost, now whether you are eat meat or non-meat is not making a difference.
===================

Frankly speaking, I myself donot remember a day when i ate just for survival only; a lot of desire is already there when I start deciding what to eat.

I see.

It is not what you eat, but your motivation. It is like When Sheik Fareed says:

Sri Granth: Sri Guru Granth Sahib

ਜਿਨਾ ਖਾਧੀ ਚੋਪੜੀ ਘਣੇ ਸਹਨਿਗੇ ਦੁਖ ॥੨੮॥
जिना खाधी चोपड़ी घणे सहनिगे दुख ॥२८॥
Jinā kẖāḏẖī cẖopṛī gẖaṇe sėhnige ḏukẖ. ||28||
Those who eat buttered bread, will suffer in terrible pain. ||28||


In the context of the shabad he is talking about greed.

I suppose this shabad is EXACTLY the same as:

Sri Granth: Sri Guru Granth Sahib

ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ
कबीर भांग माछुली सुरा पानि जो जो प्रानी खांहि ॥
Kabīr bẖāʼng mācẖẖulī surā pān jo jo parānī kẖāʼnhi.
Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine -

ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ॥੨੩੩॥
तीरथ बरत नेम कीए ते सभै रसातलि जांहि ॥२३३॥
Ŧirath baraṯ nem kī▫e ṯe sabẖai rasāṯal jāʼnhi. ||233||
no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233||

or this shabad:

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=142&english=t&id=5844#l5844

ਕਿਆ ਮੇਵਾ ਕਿਆ ਘਿਉ ਗੁੜੁ ਮਿਠਾ ਕਿਆ ਮੈਦਾ ਕਿਆ ਮਾਸੁ
किआ मेवा किआ घिउ गुड़ु मिठा किआ मैदा किआ मासु ॥
Ki▫ā mevā ki▫ā gẖi▫o guṛ miṯẖā ki▫ā maiḏā ki▫ā mās.
What good are fruits, what good is ghee, sweet jaggery, what good is flour, and what good is meat?

ਕਿਆ ਕਪੜੁ ਕਿਆ ਸੇਜ ਸੁਖਾਲੀ ਕੀਜਹਿ ਭੋਗ ਬਿਲਾਸ
किआ कपड़ु किआ सेज सुखाली कीजहि भोग बिलास ॥
Ki▫ā kapaṛ ki▫ā sej sukẖālī kījėh bẖog bilās.
What good are clothes, and what good is a soft bed, to enjoy pleasures and sensual delights?


These shabads talk about addiction, and sensual pleasures. Does this mean we don't eat butter, eat sweets, flour, or meat? What they are talking about is addiction to these, or addiction to our sensual pleasures.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

sachbol

SPNer
Feb 12, 2010
97
146
81
Medically Halaal is much hygenic.
In jhatka, the animal's head is severed in a single blow. Thus brain is separated from torso. Animal may not feel pain as brain goes immediately into comma due to blockage of blood to it and dies immediately. Also the heart stops pumping immediately and blood inside the body is not pumped out and is absorbed by the meat. Most of the harmful bacteria and virus are found in the blood and hence remain inside the meat and hence the meat may be harmful.

In Halaal, the wind pipe is cut, two veins which supply blood to the brain are also cut hence no blood is supplied to the brain resulting in the coma and hence animal may not
feel pain. The heart does not stop immediately resulting into pumping out most
of the blood hence less bacteria in meat.

By the way I have lost taste in meat and have given it up.
 

❤️ CLICK HERE TO JOIN SPN MOBILE PLATFORM

❤️ CLICK HERE TO JOIN SPN MOBILE PLATFORM

📌 For all latest updates, follow the Official Sikh Philosophy Network Whatsapp Channel:
Top