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Halal meat on the rise?

Discussion in 'Business, Lifestyle & Leisure' started by suk352, Nov 13, 2006.

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  1. suk352

    suk352
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    Hello

    I do not follow Sikhism very strictly, however i will certainly not eat halal meat or smoke though I do drink very occasionally.

    As a sikh im sure you are all aware that halal or kosher meat is forbidden. Im am getting so fed up of more and more butchers and fast food places declaring themselves as "halal approved" places. Surely theese places should
    give us a choice? Im finding all my local fast food joints now only serve halal meat, and its getting harder and harder to get non halal meat!

    Are any sikhs here bothered by these problems? Are you all strict as me about eating halaal meat?



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  3. dalsingh

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    I am.

    I know what you mean, where I live its almost pure halal! It gets awkward telling white workmates that I can't get that burger they are going to get from that shop because it is halal. They don't really care and will munch it regardless.

    Its cool though, go to Dewhurst!! lol
     
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  4. kaur-1

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    As regards to being non-halal i.e. where an animal is not slowly and painfully bled to death thus not prolonging the agony, suffering and trauma.

    What about fish? How do we know that the fish sold in the market or supermarkets have not been through a slow and painful death.?
     
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  5. bawaj

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    If i am ever in a situation where there is only halal meat available then I believe that I would go vegetarian and I have no problem doing that. In addition, how do even know that the meat is halal... anyone can put their meat as halal but how do we really know?
     
  6. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    EATING HALLAL means a BAJJAR KUREHIT..requires pesh to Panj Piayars and tankhah..and retake Amrit.
    SO avoid it if not sure.

    2. ALL FISH suffer loss of AIR..when out of water..so they literally DROWN INAIR..just as we drown in WATER....thus all fish is "DROWNING VICTIMS"..neither Jhtaka nor hallal ???

    3. HALLAL is Meat slaughtered in the MUSLIM WAY/SACRIFICIAL MEAT. a deer shot by a rifle/arrow is NOT Hallal even though it may take an hour to die... a GOAT slaughtered by JHATKA at a Kali Mata Mandir is also "Sacrificial Meat"...and cannot be eaten by a SIKH..even though not hallal !!!

    4. GURBANI pays scant attention to such....calling those who debate on it as Moorakh....pay attention to that before you get ready to "do or die" over emat/vege ??

    Gyani jarnail Singh
     
  7. suk352

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    I know that it is probably best not to eat meat if you are a Sikh, but for those who do eat meat, how far do you go to avoid halaal meat? How important is it to most people?
     
  8. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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  9. GURVINDER

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    Kya Farak Padta Hai Chahe Halaal Khao Ya Jhatka Guru Nanak De Rah Nu Tusi Bahut Piche Chadd Aye Ho`
     
  10. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    according to guru nanak only fools argue about meat.mainu ek gal daso guru nanak ne kithe hiya hai ke meat khana paap hai?
     
  11. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Guru Nanak jis "rah" bypasses all such mundane and miniscule restrictions..all left by the wayside...

    Guru nanak ji says in sri Raag....
    AVOID that which causes your "mind" Mann to get entangled in bad vibes !!
    and then Guru nanak ji goes on to LIST...some of those things that may cause our mind to getr entangled if we put too much emphasis on them..
    1. Too much "love" with Money/Gold/Silver/Jewellery....
    2. Too much "love" with Fine WOMEN...
    3. Too much "love" with FINE Clothes...
    4. Too much "love" with FINE lotions, perfumes,
    5. Too much "love" with FINE Mansions...
    6. Too much "love" with the Finest Rides..( horses, elephants..in modern context..mercedes, bmw, jaguar, ferari
    7. Too much "love" with the Finest Beds, softest pillows and mattresses
    8. Too much "love" with SWEETS...ladoos, jalebis, sweet-tooth
    9. TOO MUCH LOVE with Meat....and other related heavy stuff..

    TOO MUCH..means EXCESSIVE. and we all know too well how "EXCESSIVE" is the byword of any decent doctor....Diabetes ?? excessive sugar intake..obese ?? Excessive food/fat....heart attacks blood pressure ?..excessive foods...Embezzlement/white crime ?? Excessive love of "wealth"...AIDS..?? excessive sex....Living beyond ones means..bankruptsy proceedigns in court..credit bad..?? excessive trying to keep up with the Joneses...etc etc etc...and GURU NANAK JI Has so wisely shown us THE RAAH....

    BUT what do we do..we just go on ranting day and night..on "meat"..meat..meat.. WHY did GURU JI have to write such a LONG Shabad..on FOOLS WRANGLING OVER MEAT ?? Simply because just like TODAY..the Religious bigots, so called religious perosns holy men were ALL playing to the Gallery over this MEAT question...without any basis..Thus in Asa Dee Vaar Guru nanak Ji declares that BRAHMINS...pretedn to eb so holy holy saying matt bhitteh ve matt bitteh...wear blue clothses of the Muslims, speak their Language, EAT HALLAL MEAT in the silence of the NIGHT..and next morning again begin saying Matt bhitteh ve matt bhitteh..we dont eat meat !!! Just read Asa Ki Vaar...its all there..the PAKHAND..the Matt bhitteh attitude of holy brahmins, and EATING "HUMANS" at NIGHT !!!! Guur ji Thoroughly EXPOSED all this HYPOCRACY..just read His Gurbani saying...we are Conceived in FLESH, Nurtured in FLESH, BORN in FLESH, Have FLESH in our Mouth, the first thign we put in our mouth is the FLESH of the Mothers breast, we Get married to FLESH, bring it home and enjoy the Flesh, we then Make soem more FLESH from union of FLESH....not for a second are we "separated" from FLESH...flesh is in the Vedas, in the Puranas, in the Kitabs..

    IN Short it is total hypocracy to abstain from "Flesh"..in the name of RELIGION. Abstain if you must..for reasons of..I dont like the taste..i dont wish to kill...i dont like its colour..whatever..BUT NOT ON THE BASIS of "GURU NANAK JIS RAH"....that is a total LIE.

    I Dont take meat due to the high content of chemicals, cruelty to animals farmed in horrendous conditions, and a host of such reasons...BUT I NEVER CONDONE any "modern Sikh Brahmin" telling me..That is GURU JIs LAW..its NOT..definitely NOT.

    Gyani jarnail Singh
     
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  12. GURVINDER

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    CAN YOU TELL ME WHERE IN WHICH PHRASE OF GURBANI GURU NANAK SAID THAT FOOLS ARGUE ABOUT MEAT
     
  13. Huck_Finn

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    isn't then the talk abt jhatka and halal same brahmanwadi discussions?

    the point is

    question can be... whether you kill and animal or not...how you do it...why it bothers you?
     
  14. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    gurvinder singh ji you are telling everybody to read gurbani.why don't you just
    read gurbani with open mind.just read the following article and all comments there .you will also find there where guru nanak said that fools argue
    about meat

    http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/essays-on-sikhism/8828-fools-who-wrangle-over-flesh.html


    and btw gyani jarnail singh ji has already beautifully replied to your question
     
  15. Veeru

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    Logically, what's worse, cutting hair or killing?
     
  16. thecoopes

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    Dear friends, I thought Sikh was vegetarian?

    I personally would never knowingly eat Halal anything.
    Stick to pork guarantee never touched by Muslim Halal.
     
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  17. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    dear coopes

    sikhism is severly divided over eating meat.according to akal takhat the highest body of sikhs ,sikhs can eat meat if it is not halal.but as i earlier told
    you there are many sects in sikhism which propagates that a sikh cannot eat meat.

    btw if you ever visit india you will be surprised to know that sikhs are considered meat eaters and many famous non-veg restaurents are owned by
    sikhs.my family too was highly religious and orthodox but eating meat was common thing in our home
     
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  18. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    The Diviison is recent...with the advent of the RADHA SOAMI BEAS Movement in the late 1940's. Before that there were very very few Daal Khannehs in Punjab Villages...

    At the pain of repetion..i am putting a few more quotes from GURU NANAK JI Himself on EATING. Read on..
    Eating or not, any kind of meat is a personal preference depending
    on the taste etc and bringing the religion in-is fool hardy. Guru
    Nanak Sahib Ji has explained it very well that only God knows what is good
    and what is bad. Meat has been eaten in all the four ages and has
    been referred in all religious books.

    Water is the source of every thing in creation whether vegetation or
    meat.

    ਪਾਣੀ ਪਿਤਾ ਜਗਤ ਕਾ ਫਿਰਿ ਪਾਣੀ ਸਭੁ ਖਾਇ ॥
    “Paanee Pitaa Jagat Kaa Fir Paanee Sabh Khaa-ay”

    Water is the father of the world; in the end, water destroys it all.
    ----Guru Nanak
    Dev, Raag Sarang, AGGS, Page, 1240-9
    What food or clothes are good depends on the purity of heart as
    explained by Guru Nanak in Raag Majh;

    ਕਿਆ ਖਾਧੈ ਕਿਆ ਪੈਧੈ ਹੋਇ ॥ਜਾ ਮਨਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਸਚਾ ਸੋਇ ॥ਕਿਆ ਮੇਵਾ ਕਿਆ ਘਿਉ ਗੁੜੁ ਮਿਠਾ ਕਿਆ ਮੈਦਾ ਕਿਆ ਮਾਸੁ ॥

    “Ki-aa KhaaDhai Ki-aa PaiDhai Ho-ay, Jaa Man Naahee Sachaa So-
    ay,Kiaa Mayvaa Kiaa Gheo Gurh Mithaa Kiaa Maidaa Kiaa Maas”

    What good is food, and what good are clothes, if the True Lord does
    not abide within the mind? What good are fruits, what good is ghee,
    sweet jaggery, what good is flour and what good is
    meat? -----Guru Nanak, Vaar Raag Majh, AGGS,
    Page 142-12

    Look Carefully...MAAS - meat comes LAST...why not ban eating of Meveh fruits, ghee, butter, sugar, atta flour..FIRST before banning "meat" ?? Are we cleverer than Guru nanak ji..our FOUNDER and Satguru Himself ??

    Sikh thought is more on the ethical side of the life rather than
    physical (Maya/material) things. Food of any kind makes no
    difference but it is the spiritual part of remembering God is
    important for spiritual growth others are deluded. Guru Nanak
    describes in Raag Majh;
    ਇਕਿ ਮਾਸਹਾਰੀ ਇਕਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਣੁ ਖਾਹਿ ॥ਇਕਨਾ ਛਤੀਹ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਪਾਹਿ ॥ਇਕਿ ਮਿਟੀਆ ਮਹਿ ਮਿਟੀਆ ਖਾਹਿ ॥ਨਾਨਕ ਮੁਠੇ ਜਾਹਿ
    ਨਾਹੀ ਮਨਿ ਸੋਇ ॥
    “Ik Masaharee Ik TriN Khaaeh, Ikna Chateeh Amnrit Paaeh, Ik MiTee-aa
    Meh MiTee-aa Khaaeh, Nanak Muthay Jaahi Naahee Man So-ay”
    Some eat meat, while others eat grass. Some have all the thirty-six
    varieties of delicacies, while others live in the dirt and eat mud.
    O Nanak, those who do not enshrine the Lord within their minds is
    deluded. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Majh, SGGS, Page, 144
    Here is another Sloke of Mardana in Raag Bihaagrha stressing on the
    spiritual side of life;
    ਗੁਣ ਮੰਡੇ ਕਰਿ ਸੀਲੁ ਘਿਉ ਸਰਮੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਆਹਾਰੁ ॥ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਗੁੜੁ ਸਾਲਾਹ ਮੰਡੇ ਭਉ ਮਾਸੁ ਆਹਾਰੁ ॥ਨਾਨਕ ਇਹੁ ਭੋਜਨੁ ਸਚੁ ਹੈ
    ਸਚੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਆਧਾਰੁ ॥
    “GouN ManDay Kar Seel Gheo Saram Maas Aahaar, Giaan Gourh Salaah
    ManDay Bhou Maas Aahaar, Nanak Ih Bhojan Sach Hai Sach Naam AaDhaar.

    Make virtue your bread, good conduct the ghee, and modesty the meat
    to eat. So make spiritual wisdom your molasses, the Praise of God
    your bread, and the Fear of God the meat you eat. O Nanak, this is
    the true food; let the True Name be your only
    Support.

    -----
    Mardana, Raag Bihaagrha, SGGS, Page, 553-6

    Kabir originally was follower of IDOLS ( Moortee Pujak) and follower of Ramanand and later
    became monotheistic and believed in contemplation of Naam. He being
    under the influence of Vedanta states about 3 things to refrain from
    including fish;
    ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ ॥ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ॥
    “Kabir Bhaang Maachulee Sura Paan Jo Jo Praanee Khaaneh, Teerath
    Barat Naym Keeay Tay Sabhay Rasaatal Jaaneh”

    Kabir, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine no matter
    what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to
    hell.
    ----Bhagat Kabir
    Slokes # 233, SGGS, Page, 1377-2 & 3

    There has been references to the Hukamnama of Guru Har Gobind from
    the book of Hukamnamas by Dr. Ganda Singh to the effect that the
    Guru forbid the eating of meat but it has been annulled by the above
    references even if the document is true. All the foot prints are
    covered by the elephants foot print.

    Guru Nanak Sahib Ji in Raag Malar describes in its entirety about meat ,
    which he recited at Kurchetar at the festival of solar eclipse while
    cooking the deer meat to remove doubts and superstitions about its
    eating;
    ਮਾਸਹੁ ਨਿੰਮੇ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਜੰਮੇ ਹਮ ਮਾਸੈ ਕੇ ਭਾਂਡੇ ॥ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਕਛੁ ਸੂਝੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਚਤੁਰੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਪਾਂਡੇ ॥
    “Maasahu Nimmay Maasahu Janmay Ham Maasai Kay Bhaanday, Gi-aan Dhi-
    aan Kachh Soojhai Naahee Chatur Kahaavai PaaNday”

    In the flesh we are conceived and in the flesh we are born; we are
    vessels of flesh. You know nothing of spiritual wisdom and
    meditation, even though you call yourself clever, O religious
    scholar.

    ਮਾਸੁ ਪੁਰਾਣੀ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਤੇਬਂ-ੀ ਚਹੁ ਜੁਗਿ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਮਾਣਾ ॥ ਪਾਂਡੇ ਤੂ ਜਾਣੈ ਹੀ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਿਥਹੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਉਪੰਨਾ ॥ਤੋਇਅਹੁ ਅੰਨੁ ਕਮਾਦੁ
    ਕਪਾਹਾਂ ਤੋਇਅਹੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਗੰਨਾ ॥ਮਾਤ ਪਿਤਾ ਕੀ ਰਕਤੁ ਨਿਪੰਨੇ ਮਛੀ ਮਾਸੁ ਨ ਖਾਂਹੀ ॥ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਪੁਰਖੈ ਜਾਂ ਨਿਸਿ ਮੇਲਾ �"ਥੈ ਮੰਧੁ
    ਕਮਾਹੀ ॥
    “Maas PuraaNee Maas Kataybeen Chaoh Jug Maas KamaaNaa, PaanDay Too
    JaaNai Hee Naahee Kithoh Maas Upunnaa, To-i-ahu Ann Kamaad KapaahaaN
    To-i-ahu Taribhavan Gannaa, Maat Pitaa Kee Rakat Nipannay Machhee
    Maas Na KhaaNhee, Istaree Purkhai JaaN Nis Maylaa Othai ManDh
    Kamaahee”

    Meat is allowed in the Puraanas, meat is allowed in the Holy books.
    Throughout the four ages, meat has been used. O Pundit, you do not
    know where meat originated. Corn, sugar cane and cotton are produced
    from water. The three worlds came from water. They are produced from
    the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do not eat fish or
    meat. But when men and women meet in the night, they come together
    in the flesh.
    ---Guru
    Nanak, Raag Malaar, SGGS, Page, 1290

    The complete Sabd translated;

    First, the mortal is conceived in the flesh, and then he dwells in
    the flesh. When he comes alive, his mouth takes flesh; his bones,
    skin and body are flesh. He comes out of the womb of flesh, and
    takes a mouthful of flesh at the breast. His mouth is flesh, his
    tongue is flesh; his breath is in the flesh. He grows up and is
    married, and brings his wife of flesh into his home. Flesh is
    produced from flesh; all relatives are made of flesh. When the
    mortal meets the True Guru, and realizes the Hukam of the Lord's
    Command, then he comes to be reformed. Releasing himself, the mortal
    does not find release; O, Nanak through empty words, one is ruined.

    The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about
    meditation and spiritual wisdom. What is called meat, and what is
    called green vegetables? What leads to sin? It was the habit of the
    gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering.
    Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it,
    devour men at night. They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before
    other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation
    or spiritual wisdom. O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people?

    They cannot answer, or even understand what is said. They alone are
    blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts. They are
    produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do
    not eat fish or meat. But when men and women meet in the night, they
    come together in the flesh. In the flesh we are conceived, and in
    the flesh we are born; we are vessels of flesh. You know nothing of
    spiritual wisdom and meditation, even though you call yourself
    clever, O religious scholar. O master, you believe that flesh on the
    outside is bad, but the flesh of those in your own home is good.

    All beings and creatures are flesh; the soul has taken up its home
    in the flesh. They eat the uneatable; they reject and abandon what
    they could eat. They have a teacher who is blind. In the flesh we
    are conceived, and in the flesh we are born; we are vessels of
    flesh. You know nothing of spiritual wisdom and meditation, even
    though you call yourself clever, O religious scholar. Meat is
    allowed in the Puraanas, meat is allowed in the Bible and the Koran.
    Throughout the four ages, meat has been used. It is featured in
    sacred feasts and marriage festivities; meat is used in them.
    Women, men, kings and emperors originate from meat. If you see them
    going to hell, then do not accept charitable gifts from them. The
    giver goes to hell, while the receiver goes to heaven - look at this
    injustice. You do not understand your own self, but you preach to
    other people. O Pundit, you are very wise indeed. O Pundit, you do
    not know where meat originated. Corn, sugar cane and cotton are
    produced from water. The three worlds came from water. Water
    says, "I am good in many ways." But water takes many forms.
    Forsaking these delicacies, one becomes a true Sannyaasee, a
    detached hermit. Nanak reflects and speaks.

    Conclusions;

    Every material thing develops from water whether meat or vegetable.
    It is the remembering of the God which is important rather debating
    unnecessarily of vegetables or meat. It should be individual
    consideration to decide what is good or bad. IN SGGS
    there is no prohibition in eating or cooking meat any where. Guru
    Nanak Sahib Ji cooked deer meat at the festival of solar eclipse at Kurchetar
    to remove the doubt and superstition. Why are we Once Again falling into the same PIT of Bharam and Superstition that Guru ji pulled us out of at Kurchetar . Vegetariansim is NOT GURMATT..it is PERSONAL CHOICE ONLY. PERIOD.

    Gyani jarnail Singh
     
  19. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Gurfateh

    Gurvinder Bhai Sahib can come to any of the Chhavanis of Nihungs and we will make him Sant Sipahi from Sant only but if he wants.Maryada or code of Sants is not panthic Maryada ut thier own order's code.

    There should nenver be an attempt to let it be tremed as Sikh maryada.
     
  20. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Gurfateh

    Eat Fish,eat Pork and if have implimetns then kill goat etc.

    Or smaller Animalos like Hen or Rabbit can be killed by hands by just detaching the neck or by small kitchen knife,But Single stroke.in one attempts neck to be cut and better to say Sat Sri Akal.

    Some time neck may not cut by single blow then no Bharam(two minds) try to servere head as soon as possilbe as once spine is cut from brain animal will not firther feel pain.

    Best of luck.
     
  21. vijaydeep Singh

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    Gurfateh

    If we go by pain fish has then we should not breath either as mnay animals goes and we do not knnow.

    anywayn in India and in Bihar or Bengalwe go not eat dead fish ie Fish died of suffiocation.We catch the Fish alive from teh net,take it to kitchen in pot etc. and kill it just beofre cooking.live fishes ie one who can live either with Air also like Mangur are sometime killing in Karahi while cooking.

    We should not use Petrolium to run our Cars nor should we build dams or even Barage on the reiver as these works say in sea may kill nay aquatic animal say during spell sof oil tankers.So in dams and in barrage mnay time we see Fishes coming out due to natural barrier and dying of suffocation.
     
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