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Halal Jhataka debate by Sarna and Calcutta

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by vijaydeep Singh, Nov 3, 2006.

  1. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Gurfateh

    Last night das has heard that there was a deabate on Halal Jhatka issue between Sarna Ji and Calcutta Ji.

    Das wants more detail about that as he missed it.

    It was perhaps held at india TV.

    Das also wants to put that they wanted that it should be amrked on non veg food from hotels etc.if it is Halal or not.Someone told das that it showed that macdolands serves Halal in India(in UK it was not the same).Das wants to confirm that also.

    Anyway another Manmati thing das has seens that unlike in past during baptism at Sisganj Sahib Delhi,Singh were told to not to eat Halal and jhatka can be taken but at present Singhs are told not to eat meat.

    What went wrong?

    due to Three Banis of Dasam Pitah in Baptism,missioanries who are pro meat have stopped encouragind or even carrying out baptism and all ritualistic veggis have taken over baptism ceromany.More input on that si also needed.


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  3. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta

    is gurudwara sisganj promoting some jatha maryada or panthic maryada?
     
  4. parvinder_s_99

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    Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta

    SSA All

    This need to be debated. As fas as.., display of "Halal Food" OR "Jhatka Food" .., in some of the south asian countries like Malyasia , Singapore etc.. , It is mandatory to dispaly this information.

    The same is required in all places.

    Parvinder
     
  5. Huck_Finn

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    Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta

    hehehehe

    kee farak painda hai...

    the animal is killed anyway...

    i think its better to debate..vegetarianism or eating meat...
     
  6. vijaydeep Singh

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    Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta

    Gufateh

    It makes the differance.Guru tells to not to eat Halal.And Guru as per Mangal Prakash gimslef ate Jhatka.

    Say it is differnt to sleep with own wife as permitted and to sleep with {censored word, do not repeat.} not permitted.We can not say sex is sex Ki Farak Paida Hai?Sex Tan ho Gaya.
     
  7. dalsingh

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    Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta

    What's the debate?

    The Rehat Maryada clearly says that halal is prohibited and if you will eat meat, it is to be jhatka.
     
  8. Huck_Finn

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    Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta

    i see that guru granth sahib is silent abt eating meat or not eating meat...

    and why is halal bad?

    why not jhatka?
     
  9. dalsingh

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    Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta

    i see that guru granth sahib is silent abt eating meat or not eating meat...
    -----------------

    No it isn't, Guru Nanak wrote a shabad specifically about this
     
  10. vijaydeep Singh

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    Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta

    Gurfateh

    There are mnay verse onto St Kabeer Ji which are anti to Halal,which our viggyi brthern tend to take as anti to meat.

    There is a verse why kill chicken.In that logically St Kabir Has Bani which says that when meets with mud then what is left as Halal.

    As per some interpetaions of jews and Islam,blood is said to be life.To kill animal let all life so blood be kept out.So animal is killed by draining the blood out of body.It can be kosher or Halal.

    Gurmat talks of God in all,in blood as well in muscles and as well in bones.so no suchn differntiation is accepted.Also we(Sikhs) have differnt interpetations of Old Testment(God's saying to Prophet Abraham(Hazarat Ibrahim ahle Sala) and Prophet Mosses) and Suras of Holy Kuran.

    so killing animalo in the way which incerse duality concept or Duja bhav ie two things are differnt(so there are two or duji thing other then God as God is only here) may not be allowed.

    Bhai Randeep Singh ji has done a good research on that.And Gyani Jarnail Singh ji also concluded once on this forum that sacrfised animals are not allowed.Das may feel otherwise but respect the feeling s and logic placed by both the great Gursikhs mentioned over here.

    Gurbani support the meat eating but oppose Halal as per Guru Granth Sahib.But the Last verse of Dasham Granth has clearly writtan as Halal is Haram(tabbo) for us.

    one of the great Gursikh scholar once told das that it was some Hindu who interoplated anti Halal Things in Sikhs so that let there be not much social contact between Muslims and Sikhs.

    That could be thing as per das that Guru himseflf had made such arrangement.As there are more similarty between us and Islam,so if we lack good Sikhs with good knowledge of Gurbani and living in Muslim majority Area.They have more fear to get absorbed in presetn day 'Islam' then say Sikhs living in Hindu Area.

    why?

    Because Muslim are more missionary.

    As it happened in UK may have bad eye on female folk just as part of evenglism.(hindus are rather more bugged with caste).

    As Ahamdis are doing they can have more valid reason to hypothicate that Guru were more Muslims.

    Das himself find Sikhs 101% as Muslim and as per Holy Kuran but all other 'Muslims' are yet to follow Holy Kuran as good as Sikhs do.so they are at the mmost 90% Muslim.so diferance is only 11%.But difference of us With Hindus is about 55% or some time 35%.
     
  11. GURVINDER

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    Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta

    Gurbani Says "baba Hor Khana Khushi Khwr Jit Khade Tan Pideeye Man Me Chale Vikar" The Non Veg Is That Maya Which Will Snath Your Hapiness From You And Your Body Will Will Be Diseased
     
  12. GURVINDER

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    Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta

    Gurmukho Kise Jeev Nu Maran Wala Kade Bhi Sikh Khehlon De Layak Nhi Hai Kyonki "guru Granth Sahib" Wich Jeev Hatiya,halal,jhataka Da Support Kite Bhi Nhi Kita Gya. Jataka Hoye Ya Halaal Marna Jeev Nu Hi Penda Hai Hatya Jeev Di Hi Hondi Hai
     
  13. nirmaan_singh

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    Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta

    In my humble opinion I think every1 knows it is wrong to eat meat, but they try and justify it....
     
  14. vijaydeep Singh

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    Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta

    Gurfateh

    Then why did in Vachitar Natak Tenth Master himslef said that i killed Bule Bull,Bear,Swamp Deer,Tiger/Lion,Boar?

    There are texts wriitan which say that Guru ate also the meat.

    Here thing is ,more then eating meat,to oppse veggi cultrue in Gurmat.There are Scholars in Sanatan Sikhs who themselves do not eat meet but oppse doer concept of sin and virtue in Gurmat.

    Gurvinder Singh Ji,Do Ask Sant Ranjit Singh of Dhadrian.Is it in hand of man to even breath?We not kill or eat? is done by Akal.By Self God is fish,by self an Angel and by self the fisher man.(Ape Bahu Bidh Rangla ..)So better cary outmore nam abhyas as told by Sant Ji and when you reach his palce then you will understand that at higher Avstha God is in veg as well as animal as well in non living.



    ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ਘਰੁ ਦੂਜਾ
    सिरीरागु महला १ घरु दूजा २ ॥
    sireeraag mehlaa 1 ghar doojaa 2.
    Siree Raag, First Mehl, Second House:

    ਆਪੇ ਰਸੀਆ ਆਪਿ ਰਸੁ ਆਪੇ ਰਾਵਣਹਾਰੁ
    आपे रसीआ आपि रसु आपे रावणहारु ॥
    aapay rasee-aa aap ras aapay ravanhaar.
    He Himself is the Enjoyer, and He Himself is the Enjoyment. He Himself is the Ravisher of all.

    ਆਪੇ ਹੋਵੈ ਚੋਲੜਾ ਆਪੇ ਸੇਜ ਭਤਾਰੁ ॥੧॥
    आपे होवै चोलड़ा आपे सेज भतारु ॥१॥
    aapay hovai cholrhaa aapay sayj bhataar. ||1||
    He Himself is the Bride in her dress, He Himself is the Bridegroom on the bed. ||1||

    ਰੰਗਿ ਰਤਾ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਭਰਪੂਰਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    रंगि रता मेरा साहिबु रवि रहिआ भरपूरि ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    rang rataa mayraa saahib rav rahi-aa bharpoor. ||1|| rahaa-o.
    My Lord and Master is imbued with love; He is totally permeating and pervading all. ||1||Pause||

    ਆਪੇ ਮਾਛੀ ਮਛੁਲੀ ਆਪੇ ਪਾਣੀ ਜਾਲੁ
    आपे माछी मछुली आपे पाणी जालु ॥
    aapay maachhee machhulee aapay paanee jaal.
    He Himself is the fisherman and the fish; He Himself is the water and the net.

    ਆਪੇ ਜਾਲ ਮਣਕੜਾ ਆਪੇ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਲਾਲੁ ॥੨॥
    आपे जाल मणकड़ा आपे अंदरि लालु ॥२॥
    aapay jaal mankarhaa aapay andar laal. ||2||
    He Himself is the sinker, and He Himself is the bait. ||2||

    ਆਪੇ ਬਹੁ ਬਿਧਿ ਰੰਗੁਲਾ ਸਖੀਏ ਮੇਰਾ ਲਾਲੁ
    आपे बहु बिधि रंगुला सखीए मेरा लालु ॥
    aapay baho biDh rangulaa sakhee-ay mayraa laal.
    He Himself loves in so many ways. O sister soul-brides, He is my Beloved.

    ਨਿਤ ਰਵੈ ਸੋਹਾਗਣੀ ਦੇਖੁ ਹਮਾਰਾ ਹਾਲੁ ॥੩॥
    नित रवै सोहागणी देखु हमारा हालु ॥३॥
    nit ravai sohaaganee daykh hamaaraa haal. ||3||
    He continually ravishes and enjoys the happy soul-brides; just look at the plight I am in without Him! ||3||

    ਪ੍ਰਣਵੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਤੂ ਸਰਵਰੁ ਤੂ ਹੰਸੁ
    प्रणवै नानकु बेनती तू सरवरु तू हंसु ॥
    paranvai naanak bayntee too sarvar too hans.
    Prays Nanak, please hear my prayer: You are the pool, and You are the soul-swan.

    ਕਉਲੁ ਤੂ ਹੈ ਕਵੀਆ ਤੂ ਹੈ ਆਪੇ ਵੇਖਿ ਵਿਗਸੁ ॥੪॥੨੫॥
    कउलु तू है कवीआ तू है आपे वेखि विगसु ॥४॥२५॥
    ka-ul too hai kavee-aa too hai aapay vaykh vigas. ||4||25||
    You are the lotus flower of the day and You are the water-lily of the night. You Yourself behold them, and blossom forth in bliss. ||4||25||


    ang 23.
    Confirm it from Sant Ji.When Mardana was unhappy as you are unhappy by das's kiling Animal,Mardana was unhappy and complained to First Master about sin of fisher man.so this Bani was sent unto him(First Master) by Akal.

    Read this again and reply.


    or Ask Sant Ji.What is Duja Bhav?


    ਆਪੇ ਮਾਛੀ ਮਛੁਲੀ ਆਪੇ ਪਾਣੀ ਜਾਲੁ
    आपे माछी मछुली आपे पाणी जालु ॥
    aapay maachhee machhulee aapay paanee jaal.
    He Himself is the fisherman and the fish; He Himself is the water and the net.
     
    #13 vijaydeep Singh, Nov 6, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  15. dalsingh

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    Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta

    I don't agree. Eating meat is completely normal and happened in all societies worldwide from time immemorial. It was only in India that vegetarianism became an issue. That to lately as Hindu's own religious books talk about animal sacrifices etc.

    By all means talk about being merciful to animals and possible problems with meat eating and health but don't say meat eating is wrong because most of the world does it.

    This is not saying that if everyone does something it is automatically OK, but that it is not a big issue. It is a non-issue. I am not vege, my brother is. We can live with each other fine without having to try and change each other.

    Anyway, fools argue over meat eating so I'm going to stop.
     
  16. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta

    so tell me is farming also wrong according to sikhism.farmers spray pesticides on their crops in which many harmful as well harmless creatures are killed.
    it is also jeev hatya
     
  17. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta

    i agree with you that vegetarianism became an issue in india especially where the land was fertile.there are few vegetarians in coastal areas because the only food that is available in plenty of quantity is fish.also for from the start of civilisation we have been using animals for our benefits like

    1)we tie cows and buffaloes in sheds and force them to produce as much milk as they can.when they are not able to produce milk we throw them on road or kill them but still milk is considered a good vegetarian food.

    2)small farmers castrate male calves and then force them to plough their fields or pull load for their entire life .when they become useless they are too thrown on roads.

    the above are two examples of using animals for our benefits but no vegetarian say anything against it but when it comes to eating meat all veggeies start shedding tears as it is the only cruelity done on animals.
    start shedding tears as it
     
  18. Huck_Finn

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    dalsingh

    i am not saying that eating meat is bad or not

    i am questioning,

    if an animal is killed

    it feels pain, whether by jhatka or halal, it still dies..

    so why make fuss over the method???

    this is all pakhand..

    if someone wants to eat meat...SGGS doesnot stop him..neither it says donot eat..

    do whatever u want to..

    but donot put it on SGGS that it PROMOTES Jhatka...
     
  19. Veeru

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    Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta

    So are five vices. This is where we have think spiritually...
     
  20. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Halal Jhataka deabte by Sarna and Calcutta

    humans allways eat what is available in their environment.tell me how could
    poor fishermen living in coastal area become vegetarian?
     
  21. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    SGGS does not stop us from cutting our hair.but still in sikhism it is considered
    one of the worst thing for a sikh.
     

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