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Gurus Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji De Aagaman Divas Di Beant Vadhai Hoveh Ji

Discussion in 'History of Sikhism' started by singhbj, Jul 5, 2008.

  1. singhbj

    singhbj
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    Waheguru ji ka khalsa
    Waheguru ji ki fateh

    Guru Hargobind Sahib ji de aagaman divas di beant vadhai hoveh ji.

    ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ
    आसा महला ५ ॥
    Āsā mehlā 5.
    Aasaa, Fifth Mehl:

    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਾਚੈ ਦੀਆ ਭੇਜਿ
    सतिगुर साचै दीआ भेजि ॥
    Saṯgur sācẖai ḏī­ā bẖėj.
    The True Guru has truly given a child.

    ਚਿਰੁ ਜੀਵਨੁ ਉਪਜਿਆ ਸੰਜੋਗਿ
    चिरु जीवनु उपजिआ संजोगि ॥
    Cẖir jīvan upji­ā sanjog.
    The long-lived one has been born to this destiny.

    ਉਦਰੈ ਮਾਹਿ ਆਇ ਕੀਆ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ
    उदरै माहि आइ कीआ निवासु ॥
    Uḏrai māhi ā­ė kī­ā nivās.
    He came to acquire a home in the womb,

    ਮਾਤਾ ਕੈ ਮਨਿ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਬਿਗਾਸੁ ॥੧॥
    माता कै मनि बहुतु बिगासु ॥१॥
    Māṯā kai man bahuṯ bigās. ||1||
    and his mother's heart is so very glad. ||1||

    ਜੰਮਿਆ ਪੂਤੁ ਭਗਤੁ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਕਾ
    जमिआ पूतु भगतु गोविंद का ॥
    Jammi­ā pūṯ bẖagaṯ govinḏ kā.
    A son is born - a devotee of the Lord of the Universe.

    ਪ੍ਰਗਟਿਆ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਧੁਰ ਕਾ ਰਹਾਉ
    प्रगटिआ सभ महि लिखिआ धुर का ॥ रहाउ ॥
    Pargati­ā sabẖ meh likẖi­ā ḏẖur kā. Rahā­o.
    This pre-ordained destiny has been revealed to all. ||Pause||

    ਦਸੀ ਮਾਸੀ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਬਾਲਕ ਜਨਮੁ ਲੀਆ
    दसी मासी हुकमि बालक जनमु लीआ ॥
    Ḏasī māsī hukam bālak janam lī­ā.
    In the tenth month, by the Lord's Order, the baby has been born.

    ਮਿਟਿਆ ਸੋਗੁ ਮਹਾ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਥੀਆ
    मिटिआ सोगु महा अनंदु थीआ ॥
    Miti­ā sog mahā anand thī­ā.
    Sorrow is dispelled, and great joy has ensued.

    ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਸਖੀ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਗਾਵੈ
    गुरबाणी सखी अनंदु गावै ॥
    Gurbāṇī sakẖī anand gāvai.
    The companions blissfully sing the songs of the Guru's Bani.

    ਸਾਚੇ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਕੈ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਵੈ ॥੨॥
    साचे साहिब कै मनि भावै ॥२॥
    Sācẖė sāhib kai man bẖāvai. ||2||
    This is pleasing to the Lord Master. ||2||

    ਵਧੀ ਵੇਲਿ ਬਹੁ ਪੀੜੀ ਚਾਲੀ
    वधी वेलि बहु पीड़ी चाली ॥
    vaḏẖī vėl baho pīṛī cẖālī.
    The vine has grown, and shall last for many generations.

    ਧਰਮ ਕਲਾ ਹਰਿ ਬੰਧਿ ਬਹਾਲੀ
    धरम कला हरि बंधि बहाली ॥
    Ḏẖaram kalā har banḏẖ bahālī.
    The Power of the Dharma has been firmly established by the Lord.

    ਮਨ ਚਿੰਦਿਆ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਦਿਵਾਇਆ
    मन चिंदिआ सतिगुरू दिवाइआ ॥
    Man cẖinḏi­ā saṯgurū ḏivā­i­ā.
    That which my mind wishes for, the True Guru has granted.

    ਭਏ ਅਚਿੰਤ ਏਕ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇਆ ॥੩॥
    भए अचिंत एक लिव लाइआ ॥३॥
    Bẖa­ė acẖinṯ ėk liv lā­i­ā. ||3||
    I have become carefree, and I fix my attention on the One Lord. ||3||

    ਜਿਉ ਬਾਲਕੁ ਪਿਤਾ ਊਪਰਿ ਕਰੇ ਬਹੁ ਮਾਣੁ
    जिउ बालकु पिता ऊपरि करे बहु माणु ॥
    Ji­o bālak piṯā ūpar karė baho māṇ.
    As the child places so much faith in his father,

    ਬੁਲਾਇਆ ਬੋਲੈ ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਭਾਣਿ
    बुलाइआ बोलै गुर कै भाणि ॥
    Bulā­i­ā bolai gur kai bẖāṇ.
    I speak as it pleases the Guru to have me speak.

    ਗੁਝੀ ਛੰਨੀ ਨਾਹੀ ਬਾਤ
    गुझी छंनी नाही बात ॥
    Gujẖī cẖẖannī nāhī bāṯ.
    This is not a hidden secret;

    ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਤੁਠਾ ਕੀਨੀ ਦਾਤਿ ॥੪॥੭॥੧੦੧॥
    गुरु नानकु तुठा कीनी दाति ॥४॥७॥१०१॥
    Gur Nānak ṯuṯẖā kīnī ḏāṯ. ||4||7||101||
    Guru Nanak, greatly pleased, has bestowed this gift. ||4||7||101||

    Source: Sri Granth: Sri Guru Granth Sahib

    Waheguru ji ka khalsa
    Waheguru ji ki fateh
     
    #1 singhbj, Jul 5, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
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  3. Sikh80

    Sikh80
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    Thanks Veer ji for this Sewa.

    Regards
     
  4. pk70

    pk70
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    Thanks Singhbj ji,Same to you too.
    Dr Sahib Singh ji stated that the Shabad was written about Guru Nanak ji not in context of birth of Sri Hargobind Sahib ji, please read his interpretation, I am just sharing with all to see it If I have misunderstood, forgive me
    ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਾਚੈ ਦੀਆ ਭੇਜਿ ਚਿਰੁ ਜੀਵਨੁ ਉਪਜਿਆ ਸੰਜੋਗਿ ਉਦਰੈ ਮਾਹਿ ਆਇ ਕੀਆ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ਮਾਤਾ ਕੈ ਮਨਿ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਬਿਗਾਸੁ ॥੧॥
    Asa 5th Guru. The True Satguru has sent the child. The long lived child has been born by destiny. When he came and acquired an abode in the womb, his mother's heart became very glad.
    ਸਾਚੈ = ਸਦਾ ਕਾਇਮ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨੇ। ਚਿਰੁਜੀਵਨੁ = ਅਟੱਲ ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ। ਸੰਜੋਗਿ = (ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ) ਸੰਗਤਿ ਨਾਲ। ਉਦਰੈ ਮਾਹਿ = (ਮਾਂ ਦੇ) ਪੇਟ ਵਿਚ। ਕੈ ਮਨਿ = ਦੇ ਮਨ ਵਿਚ। ਬਿਗਾਸੁ = ਖ਼ੁਸ਼ੀ।੧।

    (ਹੇ ਭਾਈ!) ਸਦਾ ਕਾਇਮ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨੇ ਗੁਰੂ (ਨਾਨਕ) ਨੂੰ (ਜਗਤ ਵਿਚ) ਘੱਲਿਆ ਹੈ ਉਸ ਦੀ ਸੰਗਤਿ (ਦੀ ਬਰਕਤਿ) ਨਾਲ (ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਦੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਵਿਚ) ਅਟੱਲ ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੋ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ। (ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਜਿਵੇਂ ਜਦੋਂ ਮਾਂ ਦੇ) ਪੇਟ ਵਿਚ (ਬੱਚਾ) ਆ ਨਿਵਾਸ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ ਤਾਂ ਮਾਂ ਦੇ ਮਨ ਵਿਚ ਬਹੁਤ ਖ਼ੁਸ਼ੀ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੁੰਦੀ ਹੈ (ਤਿਵੇਂ ਸਿੱਖ ਦੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਅਟੱਲ ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਆਨੰਦ ਪੈਦਾ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ)।੧।

    ਜੰਮਿਆ ਪੂਤੁ ਭਗਤੁ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਕਾ ਪ੍ਰਗਟਿਆ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਧੁਰ ਕਾ ਰਹਾਉ
    The son the saint of the World-Lord is born. The primal writ has become manifest amongst all. Pause.
    ਪੂਤੁ = (ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ) ਪੁੱਤਰ। ਸਭ ਮਹਿ = ਸਭ ਜੀਵਾਂ ਦੇ ਅੰਦਰ। ਪ੍ਰਗਟਿਆ = ਪਰਗਟ ਹੋ ਪਿਆ, ਜਾਗ ਪਿਆ। ਲਿਖਿਆ ਧੁਰ ਕਾ = (ਜੀਵਾਂ ਦੇ ਕੀਤੇ ਕਰਮਾਂ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ) ਧੁਰ ਦਰਗਾਹ ਦਾ ਲਿਖਿਆ (ਸੰਸਕਾਰ-ਰੂਪ) ਲੇਖ।ਰਹਾਉ।

    (ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ) ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਭਗਤ ਜੰਮਿਆ (ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ) ਪੁੱਤਰ ਜੰਮਿਆ (ਉਸ ਦੀ ਬਰਕਤਿ ਨਾਲ ਉਸ ਦੀ ਸਰਨ ਆਉਣ ਵਾਲੇ) ਸਾਰੇ ਜੀਵਾਂ ਦੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਧੁਰ-ਦਰਗਾਹ ਦਾ (ਸੇਵਾ-ਭਗਤੀ ਦਾ) ਲੇਖ ਉੱਘੜ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ।ਰਹਾਉ।

    ਦਸੀ ਮਾਸੀ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਬਾਲਕ ਜਨਮੁ ਲੀਆ ਮਿਟਿਆ ਸੋਗੁ ਮਹਾ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਥੀਆ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਸਖੀ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਗਾਵੈ ਸਾਚੇ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਕੈ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਵੈ ॥੨॥
    In the tenth month by Lord command the baby has been born. Sorrow has left and great joy has become manifest. The mates sing the Guru's hymns in glee. This is pleasing to the True Lord's heart.
    ਦਸੀ ਮਾਸੀ = ਦਸੀਂ ਮਹੀਨੀਂ। ਹੁਕਮਿ = (ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ) ਹੁਕਮ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ। ਸੋਗੁ = ਚਿੰਤਾ-ਫ਼ਿਕਰ। ਸਖੀ = ਜੇਹੜੀ ਸਖੀ, ਜੇਹੜਾ ਸਤਸੰਗੀ। ਭਾਵੈ = ਪਿਆਰਾ ਲੱਗਦਾ ਹੈ।੨।

    (ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਜਿਵੇਂ ਜਿਸ ਘਰ ਵਿਚ) ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ ਹੁਕਮ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਦਸੀਂ ਮਹੀਨੀਂ ਪੁੱਤਰ ਜੰਮਦਾ ਹੈ (ਤਾਂ ਉਸ ਘਰ ਵਿਚੋਂ) ਗ਼ਮ ਮਿਟ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਬੜਾ ਉਤਸ਼ਾਹ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ; (ਤਿਵੇਂ ਜੇਹੜੀ ਸਤ-ਸੰਗਣ) ਸਹੇਲੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸਿਫ਼ਤਿ-ਸਾਲਾਹ ਦੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਗਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ ਉਹ ਆਤਮਕ ਆਨੰਦ ਮਾਣਦੀ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਉਹ ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੇ ਮਨ ਵਿਚ ਪਿਆਰੀ ਲੱਗਦੀ ਹੈ।੨।

    ਵਧੀ ਵੇਲਿ ਬਹੁ ਪੀੜੀ ਚਾਲੀ ਧਰਮ ਕਲਾ ਹਰਿ ਬੰਧਿ ਬਹਾਲੀ ਮਨ ਚਿੰਦਿਆ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਦਿਵਾਇਆ ਭਏ ਅਚਿੰਤ ਏਕ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇਆ ॥੩॥
    The vine has extended and shall last for many generations. The Lord has firmly established the machinery of devotion and love. The Satguru has granted me what my mind wished for. I have become care free and have fixed my attention on one God.
    ਵੇਲਿ = ਗੁਰਸਿੱਖੀ ਵਾਲੀ ਵੇਲ। ਪੀੜੀ = ਬੰਸ, ਕੁਲ। ਕਲਾ = ਸੱਤਿਆ, ਤਾਕਤ। ਬੰਧਿ = ਬੰਨ੍ਹ ਕੇ, ਪੱਕੀ ਕਰ ਕੇ। ਬਹਾਲੀ = ਟਿਕਾ ਦਿੱਤੀ। ਮਨ ਚਿੰਦਿਆ = ਮਨ-ਇੱਛਤ (ਫਲ)। ਅਚਿੰਤ = ਬੇ-ਫ਼ਿਕਰ।੩।

    (ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਜੇਹੜੇ ਵਡ-ਭਾਗੀ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਦੀ ਬਰਕਤਿ ਨਾਲ) ਇਕ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਵਿਚ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਜੋੜਦੇ ਹਨ ਉਹ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਤੋਂ ਰਹਿਤ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਮਨ-ਇੱਛਤ ਫਲ ਦੇਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਗੁਰੂ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਗੁਰਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੀ ਧਰਮ-ਸੱਤਿਆ ਪੱਕੀ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਟਿਕਾ ਦੇਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਇਹ ਗੁਰਸਿੱਖ ਹੀ (ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੀ) ਵਧ-ਰਹੀ ਵੇਲ ਹਨ ਚੱਲ-ਰਹੀ ਪੀੜ੍ਹੀ ਹਨ।੩।

    ਜਿਉ ਬਾਲਕੁ ਪਿਤਾ ਊਪਰਿ ਕਰੇ ਬਹੁ ਮਾਣੁ ਬੁਲਾਇਆ ਬੋਲੈ ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਭਾਣਿ ਗੁਝੀ ਛੰਨੀ ਨਾਹੀ ਬਾਤ ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਤੁਠਾ ਕੀਨੀ ਦਾਤਿ ॥੪॥੭॥੧੦੧॥
    As a child takes great pride on its father, so do I speak as it pleases the Guru to have me speak. It is not a concealed and hidden matter. Guru Nanak being mightily pleased has given me this gift.
    ਬੋਲੈ = ਬੋਲਦਾ ਹੈ। ਕੈ ਭਾਣਿ = ਦੇ ਭਾਣੇ ਵਿਚ (ਤੁਰ ਕੇ)। ਗੁਝੀ ਛੰਨੀ = ਲੁਕੀ ਹੋਈ।੪।

    (ਹੇ ਭਾਈ!) ਹੁਣ ਇਹ ਕੋਈ ਲੁਕੀ-ਛਿਪੀ ਗੱਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੈ (ਹਰ ਕੋਈ ਜਾਣਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਜਿਸ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਉੱਤੇ) ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਦਇਆਵਾਨ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ (ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਨਾਮਿ ਦੀ) ਦਾਤਿ ਦੇਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਉਹ ਜੋ ਕੁਝ ਬੋਲਦਾ ਹੈ ਗੁਰੂ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰੇਰਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਰਜ਼ਾ ਵਿਚ ਹੀ ਬੋਲਦਾ ਹੈ (ਉਹ ਆਪਣੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਉੱਤੇ ਇਉਂ ਫ਼ਖ਼ਰ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ) ਜਿਵੇਂ ਕੋਈ ਪੁੱਤਰ ਆਪਣੇ ਪਿਉ ਉੱਤੇ ਮਾਣ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ (ਉਹ ਸਿੱਖ ਗੁਰੂ ਪਾਸੋਂ ਸਹਾਇਤਾ ਦੀ ਉਵੇਂ ਆਸ ਰੱਖਦਾ ਹੈ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਪੁੱਤਰ ਪਿਉ ਪਾਸੋਂ)।੪।੭।੧੦੧। ❀ ਨੋਟ: ਪੁੱਤਰ ਦੇ ਜਨਮ ਦੀ ਖ਼ੁਸ਼ੀ ਦਾ ਦ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਟਾਂਤ ਦੇ ਕੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸਰਨ ਤੋਂ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਹੋਏ ਸੁਖ ਦਾ ਵਰਨਣ ਕੀਤਾ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ।
     
    #3 pk70, Jul 6, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  5. ekmusafir_ajnabi

    ekmusafir_ajnabi
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    Pk70 ji

    I disagree with Dr Sahib Singh ji . It is quite clear from the Shabad that it was written in context of birth of Sri Hargobind Sahib ji.


    At the persistence of his wife Ganga Devi who anxiously sort for a child, Guru Arjan Dev ji told her that he was not destined to have a child. In his humility he told his wife Ganga Devi; "If you need a boon, ask not me but a pious Sikh like Baba Buddha, the aged seer and devout disciple of Guru Nanak". She proceeded with a large entourage and much fanfare to Baba Buddha who lived in a jungle near Amritsar. There she presented him with many delicacies to eat. Baba Buddha resented this and refused to provide any blessings. Upon hearing what happened, Guru Arjan Dev told his wife to return this time on foot, with a simple meal prepared by herself. This time Baba Buddha was delighted and partook of the simple food. He prophesied; "A son will be born to thee who will crush the enemies of Nanak's house, just as I have crushed this piece of onion with my hand." Thus Guru Hargobind ji was born by the boon of Baba Bhudda ji. (Gyaani Jarnail Singh ji - Plz make note: Evidence contrary to the views you hold and Mr Randip Singh ji – Plz note: One born by the blessing of Baba Bhudda ji and from the house of Guru Nanak would not go hunting animals for pleasure and eat meat as insinuated in your Blasphemous essay). This, it takes one to known it.

    Now back to the shabad.


    ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਾਚੈ ਦੀਆ ਭੇਜਿ ਚਿਰੁ ਜੀਵਨੁ ਉਪਜਿਆ ਸੰਜੋਗਿ ਉਦਰੈ ਮਾਹਿ ਆਇ ਕੀਆ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ਮਾਤਾ ਕੈ ਮਨਿ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਬਿਗਾਸੁ ॥੧॥
    Asa 5th Guru. The True Satguru has blessed me with child. After a long period, it was ordained by destiny. He came and acquired an abode in his mothers womb, his mother's mind was overwhelmed with joy.

    ਜੰਮਿਆ ਪੂਤੁ ਭਗਤੁ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਕਾ ਪ੍ਰਗਟਿਆ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਧੁਰ ਕਾ ਰਹਾਉ
    A son was born who was a devotee of the Lord. The primal writ has become manifest amongst all. Pause.


    ਦਸੀ ਮਾਸੀ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਬਾਲਕ ਜਨਮੁ ਲੀਆ ਮਿਟਿਆ ਸੋਗੁ ਮਹਾ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਥੀਆ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਸਖੀ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਗਾਵੈ ਸਾਚੇ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਕੈ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਵੈ ॥੨॥
    By the command of the Lord, the baby was born in ten months duration. Sorrow departed and great joy has become manifest. The well wishers sing the Guru's hymns in glee. This was pleasing to the True Lord's heart.


    ਵਧੀ ਵੇਲਿ ਬਹੁ ਪੀੜੀ ਚਾਲੀ ਧਰਮ ਕਲਾ ਹਰਿ ਬੰਧਿ ਬਹਾਲੀ ਮਨ ਚਿੰਦਿਆ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਦਿਵਾਇਆ ਭਏ ਅਚਿੰਤ ਏਕ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇਆ ॥੩॥
    The vine of offspring has become extended and shall now last for many generations. The Power of the Dharma has been firmly established by the Lord. The Satguru has granted me what my mind desired. I become care free and absorbed myself in adoration of the one Lord.

    ਜਿਉ ਬਾਲਕੁ ਪਿਤਾ ਊਪਰਿ ਕਰੇ ਬਹੁ ਮਾਣੁ ਬੁਲਾਇਆ ਬੋਲੈ ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਭਾਣਿ ਗੁਝੀ ਛੰਨੀ ਨਾਹੀ ਬਾਤ ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਤੁਠਾ ਕੀਨੀ ਦਾਤਿ ॥੪॥੭॥੧੦੧॥
    As a child takes great pride on its father, so do I speak as it pleases the Guru to have me speak. It is not a deeply concealed or hidden matter. Guru Nanak has blessed me with this gift.


    Pk70 ji, as you can see that the even Dr Sahib Singh has been subjected to a lapse of clear vision in this translation. It is akin to one trying to think clearly when pressure is building up in the stomach. Our scholars often suffer from these problems due to undue pressure from our religious authorities who in order to feed their own ego and prejudices and mislead the seekers of truth.

    I hope you doubts are clear from the amended translation above. The message in the above shabad is both worldy and spiritual.

    Ekmusafir_ajnabi
     
  6. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Let's try to stay close to the thread topic. And let's try to avoid name-calling. See Forum rules 1 and 3A.

    1. Respect: Treat all members with the kind of respect that you expect from them in return for yourself.

    3A. Respond or discuss the issue, but not the member who posted it.
     
  7. ekmusafir_ajnabi

    ekmusafir_ajnabi
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    Aad ji,

    One day when you will really embrace Sikhism, you will understand why a Sikh responds to such allegations upon my Gurus, by Non Sikhs. Calling oneself a Sikh does not make one.

    However I shall observe the rules of YOUR forum.
     
  8. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Ekmusafir ji

    Until then, you and others are going to have to just settle down and observe Forum rule 3A. NO NAME-CALLING. AND THANK YOU for being so AGREEABLE.
     
  9. pk70

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    (quote)
    Pk70 ji, as you can see that the even Dr Sahib Singh has been subjected to a lapse of clear vision in this translation. It is akin to one trying to think clearly when pressure is building up in the stomach. Our scholars often suffer from these problems due to undue pressure from our religious authorities who in order to feed their own ego and prejudices and mislead the seekers of truth.

    I hope you doubts are clear from the amended translation above. The message in the above shabad is both worldy and spiritual.

    Ekmusafir_ajnabi

    Thanks Ekmusafir-ajnabi ji for clearing the questions around it , I couldn't make my views on it, usually I took it as a spiritual one than personal.
     
  10. Randip Singh

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    Actually the essay is not Blasphemous, because that is a Semitic notion, and we hold no such notions in Sikhism.

    In any case you tried and failed to rebut points in the essay. In fact your knowledge of Gurmukhi was found lacking on several occasions, and hence you departed from the debate some what embarrassed vowing never to return to sikhphilosophy.net , yet you are still here?

    Fact - Guru Hargobind ji went hunting. Bhai Gurdas confirms this, and well as Dabistan-e-Mazhib. All contemporary records point to this.



    I would rather believe Dr Sahib Singh ji than you Ekh Musafir.
     
  11. Randip Singh

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    What makes you so sure you are a Sikh?

    From what I read of your replies, they sound liek that of a Vashnavite Pandit yet I do not accuse you of being one.

    Talk in a civil manner too AAdji or I will personally ban you!
     
  12. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Guru Piayario Jio.
    Gurfateh.

    First of all i regard this SPN as OUR FORUM. It does not belong to "AAd Ji" YOUR FORUM !! ( or anyone else) as a member suggested in his mail recently.

    Secondly..as to the story of Baba budha Ji..and...here are my concerns...
    I find this tall tale from the banned and disgraced book Gurbilas Patshi Chhevin as an open insult to Mata Ganga Ji, Baba budha Ji and Guru Arjun Ji Sahib.

    1. Gurbani of Guru Granth sahib ji amply declares Full faith in HUKM…HUKM RAZAYEE CHALLNNA is the cornerstone of gurmatt. Yet this story says that although Guru Arjun ji “knew” He was destined to be childless…He was agreeable to a “loophole” solution to RECTIFY the HUKM/DESTINY.
    2. Mata Gnagga Ji is the Mehl..wife of the MOST HUMBLE…In fact I would call the EPITOME of HUMILITY//sensitivity….sensibility…GURU ARJUN …who lived by HUKM. Yet the story teller would have us believe that the WOMAN..the LIFE PARTNER of the GURU..didnt get an iota of HUMILITY..sehaj..hukm raza..etc etc from her YEARS of living in close proximity to Guru Arjun Ji. In Gurbani the GURU is PARAS…. The Stone that Changes base metals into GOLD merely by Close proximity !! The GURU is Capable as PARAS of the BEST QUALITY….yet this Paras failed ??? isn’t that an INSULT?? To me it is.
    3. Mata Ji is shown to be an ordinary woman HANKERING after a child….( remember Bibi nanaki elder sister of GURU NANAK ji also died childless..GURU NANAK JI did not “intervene” with Divine HUKM to turn his beloved sister from childless to mother !!) as IF a “child” is all that MATTERS !!
    4. Then she is so RUDE…and HAUGHTY. She goes off Riding the best horse carriage..in her best clothes, showing off her wealth/power..and “demands” the baba budha Ji concede to her wishes… the BABA is no “better”..He REFUSES point blank…giving not two hoots to the GURUS WIFE….. He apparently WANTS the PROPER RESPECT !!
    5. And he GETS it…..no thanks to Guru Arjun ji Himself….who gives his haughty wife an “INSTANT” lesson in humility….the “right way” to beg a boon….and voila..its the JACKPOT this time…
    6. Such stories are aplenty in the Vedas..brahmin/pandit literature….we have swamis and rishis… granting such “boons” to childless ranis..queens…. we also have such Rishis giving out FRUITS such as APPLES to queens to eat and get pregnant !! We also have the “Wrong Queen” using guiles/trickery to snatch the fruit and get the child intended for another….we also have “loving queens” sharing… the apple and thus getting TWINS…etc etc…
    7. And thus we also have THOUSANDS of such childless and ( not so childless) women thronging Modern DERAS of SANTS/BABAS ( who take LEGITIMACY from baba budha Ji story) for “CHILDREN”…..and such Holy Men happily granting such devotees….” Children”…. in the Privacy of their Bhoras/dera rooms underground with maximum security to keep out unintended visitors. ALL these women devotees are also seeking “what mata ganga ji “ sought ??
    THIS tall tale is anti Gurmatt…anti-Gurbani… and has absolutely no BASIS in HUKM. Its an open insult to Mata Ji, Baba Budha Ji and Guru Ji.

    The subsequent chapters in this Book (GPC) on the Birth and Childhood of Guru hargobind ji are even MORE BIZARRE..the writer says the CHILD Hargobind was BORN complete with LONG BEARD..the wizened shrivelled body of an 110 year old OLD MAN..wearing a Sehli TOPI. ( apparently to show that GURU NANAK Ji is REBORN as Hargobind Ji !!) The MIDWIVES are so terrified at this spectacle…. They run out SCREAMING….and lo and behold the “old man” disappears and the child hargobind is smiling in his cradle !!!

    Gyani jarnail Singh
     
  13. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    SPN is OUR FORUM. PERIOD.
     
  14. spnadmin

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    quote 4. Then she is so RUDE…and HAUGHTY. She goes off Riding the best horse carriage..in her best clothes, showing off her wealth/power..and “demands” the baba budha Ji concede to her wishes… the BABA is no “better”..He REFUSES point blank…giving not two hoots to the GURUS WIFE….. He apparently WANTS the PROPER RESPECT !!
    5. And he GETS it…..no thanks to Guru Arjun ji Himself….who gives his haughty wife an “INSTANT” lesson in humility….the “right way” to beg a boon….and voila..its the JACKPOT this time…/quote

    Gyani ji

    You know, moderating at the time on the thread and not really going forward to discuss many ideas here, I was still stuck on exactly these two ideas you presented above. Actually somehow I knew about this story from somewhere else. It is hard to believe that a "sant" a holy man like Baba Buddha would be so narcissistic and absorbed in his own importance to be so rude. Or that a divine Guru, especially Guru Arjan Dev ji, would be so bent on humiliating another human being-- his wife or anyone else. Look at his demeanor the entire time that he was tortured. He died without Hatred. It is reassuring that you have pointed out these inconsistencies.

    Randip Singh, Gursikh ji -- :) be of good cheer! :) Not to worry. :) Nothing to worry about. :) Only forum rules. :)
     
  15. pk70

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    All Jio
    After reading all this, I am sad that persons like Randip Singh ji, Giani Jarnail Singh ji and Ekmusafir ajnabi are trying to portrait each other as nothing. I have enormous respect for all of them with a possibility of disagreement now and then but whenever they try to trash each other, it is me who feel hurt, I don’t know about others. Ek musafir ajnabi, Randip Singh and giani jarnail singh ji are very wonderful contributors to this site, it is a fact not a buttering
    The only soothing words are coming from aad0002 ji in this context, may be we are fallen short of understanding all others who are in disagreement.

    Randip Singh, Gursikh ji be of good , cheer Not to worry , Nothing to worry about, Only forum rules (quote aad0002)




     
  16. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    pk70 ji,

    you shot the arrow straight at my heart....:yes: you are the mirror mirror on the wall:happy:

    Gyani Jarnail Singh
     
  17. singhbj

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    #16 singhbj, Jul 8, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  18. ekmusafir_ajnabi

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    Cut The Cheeapshots - DELETED!
     
  19. spnadmin

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    Ekmusafir ji

    You are warned officially to observe forum rules, and to treat others with respect. Check your karma for the ill effects it may have on the forum. Debate the issues not personalities. This post has been reported to leaders for review. Thank you.

    aad0002
     
  20. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Back to the portrayal. I am nobody and do not seeks praise. I will openly say Mr Randip Singh ji and Gyaani Jarnail Singh ji “TUSIN DHAN HO”. TUHADI SOOCH MAHAN HAI.. Lakin this will count as immaterial in the court of the Lord. One can take a horse to water but cannot make him drink it. I am only doing Seva as my Lord directs me.

    ................

    I dont seek anything my friend...and i am one "horse" that is satiated with "Amrit"...so i have no use for water. You are indeed "Dhan Ho"... keep it up.

    Each and every poster here is "doing seva as the Lord Wills it"....as nothing happens without HIS WILL....yes not even a patta moves.... thats how i look at others...maybe ???

    BTW i dont agree with you on the "answers/comments" you gave to my post above...not even .001%. sorry.
    and i am not a "gyaaani" that prolongs parsangs for money...and i dont lay too much emphasis on "kaam"..whatever gave you that idea... I am a COMPUTER TEACHER by profession and TEACH Gurbani/Punjabi language through Computers...and IT...for FUN.......(my living is paid by the Govt Pension fund)

    No offense.
    Warm regards..
    Gyani Jarnail Singh
     
  21. ekmusafir_ajnabi

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    No offense taken Gyaani ji.

    We all develop at different rates. Based on our experience and understanding we may or may not accept certain things. Not because they are wrong but more so because His Will does not allow us to do so. But we must remain open minded for the sake of our personal development.

    I acknowledge that. Based on our experiences and spiritual development, our opinions can vary.

    What has been quoted through you is again His Will just as it is happened through me. This is our Karma. He tells us what we should understand and what not. Hopefully there shall be better days. Once electricity was heavily feared but now it has become our servant. No hard feels here either. Some one else will benefit if it is HIS Will

    Gurfateh
    Warm Regards to you too.

    ekmusafir_ajnabi
     

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