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Gurus Guru Gobind Singh - The Man

Discussion in 'History of Sikhism' started by drkhalsa, Jan 7, 2006.

  1. drkhalsa

    drkhalsa
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    Guru Gobind Singh - The Man*
    By Khushwant Singh

    In the summer of 1921 a strange phenomenon was witnessed in the Punjab. That year the Sikhs launched a passive resistance movement to take possession of one of their historic shrines called Guru Ka Bagh, a few miles from Amritsar. Batches of passive resisters went to this shrine. They were mercilessly beaten by the police. Their arms and legs were smashed; they were dragged by their long hair; many were hung upside down from branches of trees till they became senseless.

    Instead of being cowed down by these brutalities, the number of passive resisters increased steadily till 500 strong jathas began to arrive every day at Guru Ka Bagh - amongst them many who had suffered beatings earlier and had been discharged from the hospital.


    This "rare species of courage" as Gandhi and Rev. C.F. Andrews described "was born of religious fervour", in its turn, born of a legend widely accepted by the Sikhs. It was said that wherever five passive resisters assembled to say their prayers, Guru Gobind Singh appeared before them. He led them to Guru Ka Bagh. And he, not the passive resister, received the blows showered by the police. When these
    satyagrahis were produced in court and asked their names and addresses, they gave their names correctly. But of their parentage and address, the answer invariably was: "My father’s name is Guru Gobind Singh; my mother, Mata Sahib Devan. My home is the Guru’s town Anandpur."

    The Guru Ka Bagh satyagraha went on for some months till the Punjab gaols were crammed. Ultimately it was the police and the Government which gave in and agreed to Guru Ka Bagh being handed over to the Sikhs.

    I have met many of these passive resisters and, with my own ears, heard them tell of the darshan of the Guru, and his ethereal form lead them to face the police. They swear that they lost all fear, and when they were tortured they knew no pain.

    Soon after Guru Ka Bagh yet another phenomenon was witnessed in the Punjab. The sacred pool surrounding the Hari Mandir in Amritsar was drained and desilted. In this
    Kar Seva, as it was known, millions of people took part. You can today meet hundreds of men and women who will swear that many a time while they were engaged in this Kar Seva the Guru’s white hawk swooped down from the skies and settled on the gold pinnacle of the Hari Mandir - and then as dramatically vanished into the blue heaven.

    Sceptics will undoubtedly have explanation for these phenomena. Let us concede that in an atmosphere of religious fervour, such experiences are possible. However, the point to bear in mind is that for the Sikhs these phenomena have been usually connected with Guru Gobind Singh, because he has been to them their father-figure, their supreme hero, the sustainer of faith, hope and courage, and their
    beau-ideal - all in one.

    What kind of man was this geroic Guru Gobind Singh? By now you must be familiar with the main events of his life. I will not repeat them. I will only draw your attention to five points to help you judge the Guru’s place in history. The choice of the number ‘five’ is deliberate. Five has some kind of mystic significance in the Punjab - the land of five rivers. The Guru himself subscribed to sanctity of the five:
    pancon men nit bartat main hun
    panc milan to piran pir.


    "Wherever there are five there am I. Where five meet, they are the holiest of the holy."

    • First, it should be borne in mind that he was only a child of nine when his father, the ninth Guru, Tegh Bahadur was executed by the order of Emperor Aurangzeb. In any mortal such an experience would result in a traumatic shock followed, first, by fear and, then, by hate and desire for revenge against the people who had perpetrated the crime. I have little doubt that many persons must have tried to fill young Gobind’s mind with feelings of hatred and revenge against the Mughals. The Guru remained impervious to these influences. When he grew into manhood he announced his mission in life in the following words: "I came into the world charged with the duty to uphold the right in every place, to destroy sin and evil... the only reason I took birth was to see that righteousness may flourish, that good may live, and tyrants be torn out by their roots."


    • Secondly, it should be constantly before our minds that the Guru never subscribed to the theory "might is right". Although he introduced the worship of arms in Sikh religious ritual and even described the sword, the spear and the musket as ‘the pirs’ - religious mentors of the Sikhs, this was entirely in the context of force as the righter of wrongs. He was fully aware of the fact that the teachings of the first five Gurus and the Granth Sahib were pacific in content. But should truth and goodness be allowed to suffer annihilation at the hands of falsehood and evil? The Guru’s answer was a categorical "No". In a Persian composition entitled the Zafarnama, the Epistle of Victory said to have been sent to Emperor Aurangzeb, he wrote:

      cu kar az hama hilate dar guzasht
      halal ast burdan ba shamshir dast.


      "When all other means have failed, it is righteous to draw the sword."

      In this context, it is significant that although Guru Gobind Singh dictated the final version of the Guru Granth Sahib, he did not include any of his own compositions exhorting people to rise in arms in the sacred text.


    • Thirdly, the Guru took, special care that anti-Muslim sentiment should not stain the crusade he was about to launch against the Mughals. "My sword strikes tyrants, not men", he said. Amongst the earliest recruits to his army were Muslims. Although he fought the Mughals all his life - as indeed he did the Hindu Rajputs of the hills - he had both Muslims and Hindus fighting on his side, shoulder to shoulder with his Sikhs. This followed naturally from his conviction that all men were of one caste - manas ki jat sab ek pacanbo - he exhorted. And that the mosque and the temple to be the same; the call of the muezzin and the chanting of the pandit were the same.

      The non-communal tradition started by Guru Gobind Singh was continued into the time of Maharajah Ranjit Singh who was, as pointed out by Pandit Nehru in his "Discovery of India", one of the few genuinely secular rulers of our country. It was, therefore, in the fitness of things that in the crowning success of Sikh arms, the flag that the Muslim General, Colonel Basswan, carried through the streets of Kabul bore the emblem of Guru Gobind Singh; likewise, the Dogra, General Zorawar Singh, planted this saffron banner bearing Guru Gobind Singh’s
      Chakra, with Kirpans crossed, beneath, in the heart of Tibet.
      Guru Gobind Singh was able to raise his fight against Mughals into a struggle of the down-trodden against oppression of the rich, into a demand for justice against tyranny of wrong-doers, in short, into a crusade, a veritable dharma yudha against the powers of evil. He forbade his soldiers from looting. He made them take solemn vows that they would never molest women of the enemy. He emulated the example of our ancient rishis and yogis and insisted that all Sikhs should wear their hair and beards unshorn - for they were not common soldiers but Sant Sipahis, Soldier-Saints.


    • Fourthly, what deserves your attention is the incredible sense of loyalty and sacrifice that the Guru was able to arouse amongst his followers. Let me give you a few examples. You may have heard of the famous ‘baptismal’ ceremony when five men willingly agreed to have their heads cut off.

      There are innumerable examples of similar sacrifice. As well known as these first five Sikhs, known as
      Panj Piyaras, were another group of forty known as chali mukte. Under great stress during the prolonged siege of Anandpur these forty men asked the Guru to let them go. After getting a deed of renunciation, the Guru released them from their obligation. When these men returned to their homes their women folk taunted them for disloyalty to the Master. The men (including amongst them a woman, Mai Bhago) rejoined the Guru at Muktsar and fell fighting. The last request their leader, Mahan Singh, made to the Guru, was to have the deed of renunciation torn up before he closed his eyes for ever.

      Yet another example was of an old woman who came to the Guru for help. She told him that her husband and two sons had been killed fighting. All that remained of her family was her youngest son who was dangerously ill. She begged the Guru’s blessings to restore him to health - not to have some one to look after her in old age - but in order that this son too could attain martyrdom in the battle field.


      How was Guru Gobind Singh able to fire his followers with this kind of reckless valor? Primarily by setting an example himself. This is the fourth point of your consideration. He fought alongside his men. He never put his family before his followers. On the contrary, at one of the engagements, he allowed two of his sons to go to a certain death before he allowed any of his
      Panj Piyaras to do so. Within a few months he lost all his four sons: two were killed fighting, the other two, aged nine and seven, were executed by the Governor of Sirhind. His own mother died of grief. When his wife asked him in tears for her four sons, the Guru answered, "What if four be dead; thousands live to continue the battle."

      It was by this kind of personal example that the Guru was able to train poor rustics who had handled nothing more lethal than a
      lathi and flabby, pot-bellied, timid shopkeepers, to become some of the greatest fighters India has ever known. He redeemed his pledge that ‘he would train the sparrow to fight the hawk’ and ‘teach one man to fight a legion’. Pathans, Persians, Afghans and Baluchis of the North West Frontier region who had for centuries invaded India, terrified, massacred and looted our people, were beaten back into the homelands by these new soldiers of Guru Gobind Singh.

      It has never been fully appreciated by our historians that these Sikhs set up a human barricade against the invaders and so made possible the rise of Maratha power in the Deccan.


    • Fifthly, and this is my final point, is the genuinely democratic spirit of this great leader of men. Guru Gobind Singh never claimed divinity for himself. He denounced those who tried to make him an incarnation of God. "I was ordained to establish a sect and lay down its rules," he wrote. "But whosoever regards me as Lord shall be damned and destroyed. I am - and this let there be no doubt, I am but a slave to God, as other men are: a beholder of the wonders of creation." He took no credit for what he did: he attributed all achievements to the Khalsa - all his victories, his power, his prestige, he said was due to the efforts of his followers. Although he was their Guru, he made himself their disciple - ape gur-cela. Whenever the congregation passed a resolution it acquired the sanctity of a gurumata - an ordinance of the Guru binding even on the Guru himself.

      Guru Gobind Singh was thus a rare combination of many qualities - a sophisticated aesthete composing poetry in many languages - Sanskrit, Prakrit, Persian and Punjabi; a handsome cavalier fond of chase and danger; a soldier who dedicated his life to fight tyranny; a leader who looked upon his followers as comrades and equals, a Guru who exhorted people to worship the God they love best but insisted they look up their fellow beings as equals; a man who sacrificed all he had - his family and his worldly possessions and ultimately himself for his ideals. This ideal he stated in lines which have become the most quoted of his compositions:

      O Lord of Thee these boons I ask

      Let me never shun a righteous task.
      Let me be fearless when I go to battle.
      Give me faith that victory will be mine.
      Give me power to sing Thy praise,
      And when comes the time to end my life,
      Let me fall in mighty strife...

      Has the world produced many men as great as Guru Gobind Singh?


      Guru Gobind Singh - The Man*
      By Khushwant Singh
      01/05/2006 From The Sikh Review: January 1967.
      Guru Gobind Singh - The Man*
     
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    #1 drkhalsa, Jan 7, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2010
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  3. vijaydeep Singh

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    Re: Guru Gobind Singh - The Man*

    Gurfateh
    as per fe of our great intellectuals it is praises of hindu devi by some Sakatmati Brahamin:}{}{}:
     
  4. drkhalsa

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    Re: Guru Gobind Singh - The Man*

    Dear Vijaydeep


    I came to know of one more interesting thing about this shabad

    I have Collegue from Iran I told you realier on I incidently asked him about something and he told me that in their language persian ( farsi) SIVA is name used for something very beautiful and is very common word and as i know Guru i used word SIVA and not SHIVA
    so it make lot of sense

    what do you think


    Jatinder Singh
     
  5. vijaydeep Singh

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    Re: Guru Gobind Singh - The Man*

    Gurfateh

    In Tehrooni accent it i zeeba but in other it is seva das will see that part and inform but as per roots of sanskrit we have

    shi for high and va for with.


    so Shiva means with highest(esteem) ie Akal.

    anyway das will verfy if it is seeva or shiva.Thanks for very good information and may Akal bless you.:)
     
  6. roshi

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    Re: Guru Gobind Singh - The Man*

    One thing I have always wondered is why didnt the Tenth Guru include his teachnigs and shabads in Guru Granth Sahib ji when the last version was dictated and maintained by Him only?
     
  7. vijaydeep Singh

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    Re: Guru Gobind Singh - The Man*

    Gurfateh

    to make scripture more handy to carry as he expirinced that one big scripture of 9 mann(a sort of unit of wieght) went into river while moving to safer Area.
     
  8. roshi

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    Re: Guru Gobind Singh - The Man*

    is that the only reason?:confused:

     
  9. pk70

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    (quote)and this is my final point, is the genuinely democratic spirit of this great leader of men. Guru Gobind Singh never claimed divinity for himself. He denounced those who tried to make him an incarnation of God. "I was ordained to establish a sect and lay down its rules," he wrote.

    Dharma's translation is not sect as Khushwant Sing does, it is Dharma, Duty, Religion. Whatever Khushwant Singh writes about Sikhs, he can never stop smelling
     
    #8 pk70, Jun 11, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2008
  10. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Lets NOT second guess the GURU...guys. Whatever HE did or didnt do is entirely His DOMAIN.
    Swaal Jwaab dovehn kareh..is straight road to DISASTER.

    2. Otherwise some others will also ask WHY...THREE GURUS DIDNT write a single tuk of Gurbani ?OR IF they did it isnt included in SGGS ?? why ?? Was THAT also to "CONTROL WEIGHT" (Dieting gurbani style ??) Guru hargobind Ji-Guru har rai Ji and Guru har KISHAN Ji are the three Gurus who have no Gurbani in SGGS.
    3. Then some other smarty kacheras may say..WHY Guru arjun Ji wrote "So many" and Bhagt Bhikhan Ji only one tuk ?? Why Guru Angad Ji only wrote Saloks...and no Vaars ?? WHY are there THREE only slightly different versions of SODAR...and a Slok in sukhmani is written TWICE with an INJUNCTION to READ IT TWICE !!! Eh slok AAD- AANT parrhna !!! ( also to stop a smarty pants from saying..AHH Guru ji made a mistake...same slok twice..once read already..enough lah...why bother to read again ??)
    4. There are plenty of derawadees killing flies on flies...and there are plenty of scholars questioning everything..BOTH have faults. Guru ji says..AAkleen SAHIB seveah.use your brains !!
    Warmest regards to all especially Vijaydeep Singh Ji.

    Gyani jarnail Singh
     
  11. Archived_member7

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    Saadh Sangatji,
    Waheguruji ka khalsa Waheguruji ki fateh

    I thank Bhai Dr. Khalsaji for his wonderful observation about Dasve Paadshah's great accomplishments and compiling all these thoughts in this wondeful article...

    I would appeal to all in this forum...i dont know if i m right ..my view is our Guruji had been a great spiritual Guide to us..but lets not limit His Highness The True Emporor to Panth ..lets take his will to all..even the atheist should regard Him as his Hero...

    Raaj Karega Khalsa
     
  12. vijaydeep Singh

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    Gurfateh

    Respected Gyani Sahib Ji,



    ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ
    सलोक मः १ ॥
    Salok mehlā 1.
    Shalok, First Mehl:

    ਧ੍ਰਿਗੁ ਤਿਨਾ ਕਾ ਜੀਵਿਆ ਜਿ ਲਿਖਿ ਲਿਖਿ ਵੇਚਹਿ ਨਾਉ
    ध्रिगु तिना का जीविआ जि लिखि लिखि वेचहि नाउ ॥
    Ḏẖarig ṯinā kā jīvi­ā je likẖ likẖ vėcẖeh nā­o.
    Cursed are the lives of those who read and write the Lord's Name to sell it.

    ਖੇਤੀ ਜਿਨ ਕੀ ਉਜੜੈ ਖਲਵਾੜੇ ਕਿਆ ਥਾਉ
    खेती जिन की उजड़ै खलवाड़े किआ थाउ ॥
    Kẖėṯī jin kī ujṛai kẖalvāṛė ki­ā thā­o.
    Their crop is devastated - what harvest will they have?

    ਸਚੈ ਸਰਮੈ ਬਾਹਰੇ ਅਗੈ ਲਹਹਿ ਦਾਦਿ
    सचै सरमै बाहरे अगै लहहि न दादि ॥
    Sacẖai sarmai bāhrė agai laheh na ḏāḏ.
    Lacking truth and humility, they shall not be appreciated in the world hereafter.

    ਅਕਲਿ ਏਹ ਆਖੀਐ ਅਕਲਿ ਗਵਾਈਐ ਬਾਦਿ
    अकलि एह न आखीऐ अकलि गवाईऐ बादि ॥
    Akal ėh na ākẖī­ai akal gavā­ī­ai bāḏ.
    Wisdom which leads to arguments is not called wisdom.

    ਅਕਲੀ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸੇਵੀਐ ਅਕਲੀ ਪਾਈਐ ਮਾਨੁ
    अकली साहिबु सेवीऐ अकली पाईऐ मानु ॥
    Aklī sāhib sėvī­ai aklī pā­ī­ai mān.
    Wisdom leads us to serve our Lord and Master; through wisdom, honor is obtained.

    ਅਕਲੀ ਪੜ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਕੈ ਬੁਝੀਐ ਅਕਲੀ ਕੀਚੈ ਦਾਨੁ
    अकली पड़्हि कै बुझीऐ अकली कीचै दानु ॥
    Aklī paṛĥ kai bujẖī­ai aklī kīcẖai ḏān.
    Wisdom does not come by reading textbooks; wisdom inspires us to give in charity.

    ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਖੈ ਰਾਹੁ ਏਹੁ ਹੋਰਿ ਗਲਾਂ ਸੈਤਾਨੁ ॥੧॥
    नानकु आखै राहु एहु होरि गलां सैतानु ॥१॥
    Nānak ākẖai rāhu ėhu hor galāʼn saiṯān. ||1||
    Says Nanak, this is the Path; other things lead to Satan. ||1|| (Ang 1245)

    Das thinks to serve Guru is real work of brain then following brain for debate,what das understands wif we take term akkal in Farsi.

    But in Sankrit it has a deeper meaing

    [SIZE=-1]SGGS Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary[/SIZE][SIZE=+0]ਜਿਸ ਦੀਆਂ ਕਲਾਂ ਨਾ ਹੋਣ, ਜਿਸ ਦੇ ਟੋਟੇ ਨਾ ਹੋ ਸਕਣ, ਜੋ ਚੰਦ੍ਰਮਾ ਵਾਂਗ ਘਟਦਾ ਵਧਦਾ ਨਹੀਂ, ਅਖੰਡ ਸ਼ਕਤੀ ਵਾਲਾ। ਸੰਪੂਰਨ। ਬੁਧੀ, ਗਿਆਨ। ਗੁਣ ਰਹਿਤ, ਕਲਾ ਰਹਿਤ, ਹੁਨਰ ਰਹਿਤ। [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]SGGS Gurmukhi-English Dictionary[/SIZE][SIZE=+0]Ara. n. Wisdom, intellect, understanding [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
    SGGS Gurmukhi-English Data provided by Harjinder Singh Gill, Santa Monica, CA, USA.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]English Translation[/SIZE][SIZE=+0]Intelligence, sense, head, wisdom, reason. [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia[/SIZE][SIZE=+0]ਅ਼. __ ਅ਼ਕ਼ਲ. {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਬੁੱਧਿ. ਅਸਲ ਵਿੱਚ ਅ਼ਕ਼ਲ ਦਾ ਅਰਥ ਉੱਠ ਦਾ ਨਿਉਲ ਹੈ, ਜੋ ਨਿਉਲ ਦੀ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਆਦਮੀ ਦੀ ਵ੍ਰਿੱਤੀ ਨੂੰ ਨਿਯਮਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਲੈ ਆਵੇ, ਸੋ ਅ਼ਕ਼ਲ ਹੈ। (2) ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ. ਯਾਦਦਾਸ਼ਤ। (3) ਸੰ. ਵਿ- ਅਖੰਡ. "ਸਦਾ ਅਕਲ ਲਿਵ ਰਹੈ". (ਸਵੈਯੇ ਮਃ ੨. ਕੇ)। (4) ਅਵਯਵ (ਅੰਗ) ਬਿਨਾ। (5) ਕਲਾ ਰਹਿਤ. ਭਾਵ- ਨਿਰਗੁਣ. "ਅਕਲ ਕਲਾਧਰ ਸੋਈ". (ਸਿਧਗੋਸਟਿ)। (6) ਕਰਤਾਰ. "ਜਿਸੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਤੇ ਅਕਲਗਤਿ ਜਾਣੀ". (ਗਉ ਅਃ ਮਃ ੫)। (7) ਸਿੰਧੀ. ਵਿ- ਨਾ ਜਾਣਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
    [/SIZE]
    it talks of something without movement and by adding ee(bihari) to it,it is more to become an adjective which is used as naun.

    Because as per Gurbani we do not have any thing of our own so how can we use our barin?

    all question we apprantly pose are also not our nor are the answers.

    Page 51, Line 3
    ਛੋਡਿ ਸਗਲ ਸਿਆਣਪਾ ਸਾਚਿ ਸਬਦਿ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    छोडि सगल सिआणपा साचि सबदि लिव लाइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Cẖẖod sagal si­āṇpā sācẖ sabaḏ liv lā­ė. ||1|| rahā­o.
    Give up all your clever mental tricks, and lovingly attune yourself to the True Word of the Shabad. ||1||Pause||
    Guru Arjan Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

    Page 86, Line 4
    ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਤੇਰਾ ਤੂੰ ਸਭਸੁ ਦਾ ਤੂੰ ਸਭਨਾ ਰਾਸਿ ॥
    सभु को तेरा तूं सभसु दा तूं सभना रासि ॥
    Sabẖ ko ṯėrā ṯūʼn sabẖas ḏā ṯūʼn sabẖnā rās.
    All are Yours, and You belong to all. You are the wealth of all.
    Guru Ram Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 106, Line 4
    ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਧਨੁ ਭੀ ਤੇਰਾ ॥
    मनु तनु तेरा धनु भी तेरा ॥
    Man ṯan ṯėrā ḏẖan bẖī ṯėrā.
    Mind and body are Yours; all wealth is Yours.
    Guru Arjan Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


    Page 122, Line 10
    ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਸਚੇ ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਤੇਰਾ ॥
    सभु को सचे हरि जीउ तेरा ॥
    Sabẖ ko sacẖė har jī­o ṯėrā.
    All are Yours, O Dear True Lord.
    Guru Amar Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
    Page 151, Line 12
    ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਤੇਰਾ ਤੂੰ ਸਭਨਾ ਕਾ ਸੋਇ ॥
    सभु को तेरा तूं सभना का सोइ ॥
    Sabẖ ko ṯėrā ṯūʼn sabẖnā kā so­ė.
    All are Yours - You are the Lord of all.
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

    Till e do not give up semar room mentaility deredars will rule the roost but das has seen Bhai Manider Pal Singh Ji of Ropar missionary collage conducting the classes in Dera Sant Baba Karam Singh,Delhi.Such middle ruoute is better. as more amd more we condem Deredars and they keep quite,they are made heros and we are made bunch of jokers.

    If possible das rquest that conversation between Ragi Darshan Singh Ji and Sant Ranjit Singh Ji of Dhadrian be posed over here by Bhai Dr Khalsa.

    Das post seems to be out of contet in this thread so could be moved if needed.
    Akal Bless
     
    #11 vijaydeep Singh, Jun 12, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  13. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Gyani ji,
    Using a brain comes with the the very important ability to question. Without questions, there is no answer. Sometimes even with questions there is no answer but questions is what it all begins with. Thinking requires one to question. i would go as far as saying if you do not question, you do not think. EVEN Our gurus questioned the flaws in society. The one of the biggest questions they asked was:
    ਮਃ
    मः १ ॥
    Mėhlā 1.
    First Mehl:

    ਭੰਡਿ ਜੰਮੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਨਿੰਮੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਮੰਗਣੁ ਵੀਆਹੁ
    भंडि जमीऐ भंडि निमीऐ भंडि मंगणु वीआहु ॥
    Bẖand jammī▫ai bẖand nimmī▫ai bẖand mangaṇ vī▫āhu.
    From woman, man is born; within woman, man is conceived; to woman he is engaged and married.

    ਭੰਡਹੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਦੋਸਤੀ ਭੰਡਹੁ ਚਲੈ ਰਾਹੁ
    भंडहु होवै दोसती भंडहु चलै राहु ॥
    Bẖandahu hovai ḏosṯī bẖandahu cẖalai rāhu.
    Woman becomes his friend; through woman, the future generations come.

    ਭੰਡੁ ਮੁਆ ਭੰਡੁ ਭਾਲੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਬੰਧਾਨੁ
    भंडु मुआ भंडु भालीऐ भंडि होवै बंधानु ॥
    Bẖand mu▫ā bẖand bẖālī▫ai bẖand hovai banḏẖān.
    When his woman dies, he seeks another woman; to woman he is bound.

    ਸੋ ਕਿਉ ਮੰਦਾ ਆਖੀਐ ਜਿਤੁ ਜੰਮਹਿ ਰਾਜਾਨ
    सो किउ मंदा आखीऐ जितु जमहि राजान ॥
    So ki▫o manḏā ākẖī▫ai jiṯ jamėh rājān.
    So why call her bad? From her, kings are born.

    ਭੰਡਹੁ ਹੀ ਭੰਡੁ ਊਪਜੈ ਭੰਡੈ ਬਾਝੁ ਕੋਇ
    भंडहु ही भंडु ऊपजै भंडै बाझु न कोइ ॥
    Bẖandahu hī bẖand ūpjai bẖandai bājẖ na ko▫e.
    From woman, woman is born; without woman, there would be no one at all.

    ਨਾਨਕ ਭੰਡੈ ਬਾਹਰਾ ਏਕੋ ਸਚਾ ਸੋਇ
    नानक भंडै बाहरा एको सचा सोइ ॥
    Nānak bẖandai bāhrā eko sacẖā so▫e.
    O Nanak, only the True Lord is without a woman.

    ਜਿਤੁ ਮੁਖਿ ਸਦਾ ਸਾਲਾਹੀਐ ਭਾਗਾ ਰਤੀ ਚਾਰਿ
    जितु मुखि सदा सालाहीऐ भागा रती चारि ॥
    Jiṯ mukẖ saḏā salāhī▫ai bẖāgā raṯī cẖār.
    That mouth which praises the Lord continually is blessed and beautiful.

    ਨਾਨਕ ਤੇ ਮੁਖ ਊਜਲੇ ਤਿਤੁ ਸਚੈ ਦਰਬਾਰਿ ॥੨॥
    नानक ते मुख ऊजले तितु सचै दरबारि ॥२॥
    Nānak ṯe mukẖ ūjle ṯiṯ sacẖai ḏarbār. ||2||
    O Nanak, those faces shall be radiant in the Court of the True Lord. ||2||


    -------------------------------------------------------
    More questions by our "kachera" :}--}: gurus:
    Page 1, Line 6
    ਕਿਵ ਸਚਿਆਰਾ ਹੋਈਐ ਕਿਵ ਕੂੜੈ ਤੁਟੈ ਪਾਲਿ ॥
    किव सचिआरा होईऐ किव कूड़ै तुटै पालि ॥
    Kiv sacẖi▫ārā ho▫ī▫ai kiv kūrhai ṯutai pāl.
    So how can you become truthful? And how can the veil of illusion be torn away?
    Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    Page 1, Line 10
    ਗਾਵੈ ਕੋ ਤਾਣੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਕਿਸੈ ਤਾਣੁ ॥
    गावै को ताणु होवै किसै ताणु ॥
    Gāvai ko ṯāṇ hovai kisai ṯāṇ.
    Some sing of His Power-who has that Power?
    Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    Page 2, Line 4
    ਫੇਰਿ ਕਿ ਅਗੈ ਰਖੀਐ ਜਿਤੁ ਦਿਸੈ ਦਰਬਾਰੁ ॥
    फेरि कि अगै रखीऐ जितु दिसै दरबारु ॥
    Fer kė agai rakẖī▫ai jiṯ ḏisai ḏarbār.
    So what offering can we place before Him, by which we might see the Darbaar of His Court?
    Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    Page 2, Line 4
    ਮੁਹੌ ਕਿ ਬੋਲਣੁ ਬੋਲੀਐ ਜਿਤੁ ਸੁਣਿ ਧਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥
    मुहौ कि बोलणु बोलीऐ जितु सुणि धरे पिआरु ॥
    Muhou kė bolaṇ bolī▫ai jiṯ suṇ ḏẖare pi▫ār.
    What words can we speak to evoke His Love?
    Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    Page 2, Line 11
    ਤੀਰਥਿ ਨਾਵਾ ਜੇ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵਾ ਵਿਣੁ ਭਾਣੇ ਕਿ ਨਾਇ ਕਰੀ ॥
    तीरथि नावा जे तिसु भावा विणु भाणे कि नाइ करी ॥
    Ŧirath nāvā je ṯis bẖāvā viṇ bẖāṇe kė nā▫e karī.
    If I am pleasing to Him, then that is my pilgrimage and cleansing bath. Without pleasing Him, what good are ritual cleansings?
    Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    Page 2, Line 11
    ਜੇਤੀ ਸਿਰਠਿ ਉਪਾਈ ਵੇਖਾ ਵਿਣੁ ਕਰਮਾ ਕਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਲਈ ॥
    जेती सिरठि उपाई वेखा विणु करमा कि मिलै लई ॥
    Jeṯī siraṯẖ upā▫ī vekẖā viṇ karmā kė milai la▫ī.
    I gaze upon all the created beings: without the karma of good actions, what are they given to receive?
    Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    Page 2, Line 15
    ਜੇ ਤਿਸੁ ਨਦਰਿ ਨ ਆਵਈ ਤ ਵਾਤ ਨ ਪੁਛੈ ਕੇ ॥
    जे तिसु नदरि न आवई त वात न पुछै के ॥
    Je ṯis naḏar na āvī ṯa vāṯ na pucẖẖai ke.
    still, if the Lord does not bless you with His Glance of Grace, then who cares? What is the use?
    Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    Page 3, Line 14
    ਤਿਸ ਤੇ ਭਾਰੁ ਤਲੈ ਕਵਣੁ ਜੋਰੁ ॥
    तिस ते भारु तलै कवणु जोरु ॥
    Ŧis ṯe bẖār ṯalai kavaṇ jor.
    What power holds them, and supports their weight?
    Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    Page 3, Line 15
    ਏਹੁ ਲੇਖਾ ਲਿਖਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਕੋਇ ॥
    एहु लेखा लिखि जाणै कोइ ॥
    Ėhu lekẖā likẖ jāṇai ko▫e.
    Who knows how to write this account?
    Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    Page 12, Line 13
    ਤੇਰੇ ਦਾਨੈ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਨਾ ਪਵੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਦਾਤੇ ਕਵਣੁ ਸੁਮਾਰੁ ॥੨॥
    तेरे दानै कीमति ना पवै तिसु दाते कवणु सुमारु ॥२॥
    Ŧere ḏānai kīmaṯ nā pavai ṯis ḏāṯe kavaṇ sumār. ||2||
    Your Gifts cannot be appraised; how can anyone compare to the Giver? ||2||
    Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    Page 14, Line 11
    ਭੀ ਤੇਰੀ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਨਾ ਪਵੈ ਹਉ ਕੇਵਡੁ ਆਖਾ ਨਾਉ ॥੧॥
    भी तेरी कीमति ना पवै हउ केवडु आखा नाउ ॥१॥
    Bẖī ṯerī kīmaṯ nā pavai ha▫o kevad ākẖā nā▫o. ||1||
    even so, I could not estimate Your Value. How can I describe the Greatness of Your Name? ||1||
    Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

    ----------------------
    I think this ordinary "kachera" :}--}: made his point.

    Page 1239, Line 16
    ਨਾਨਕ ਪੁਛਿਆ ਦੇਇ ਪੁਜਾਇ ॥
    नानक पुछिआ देइ पुजाइ ॥
    Nānak pucẖẖi▫ā ḏe▫e pujā▫e.
    O Nanak, when questioned, the answer is given.
    Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
     
  14. pk70

    pk70
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    Gyani ji,
    Using a brain comes with the the very important ability to question. Without questions, there is no answer. Sometimes even with questions there is no answer but questions is what it all begins with. Thinking requires one to question. i would go as far as saying if you do not question, you do not think. EVEN Our gurus questioned the flaws in society. The one of the biggest questions they asked wasL( quote Bhagat Singh Ji)

    Obviously Bhagat Singh ji, you have no inkling what Gyani ji has tried to convey. Purpose of his post was to regard Guus and leave to them what they did or didn’t.
    Coming back to questioning, you have quoted Gurbani to advocate you own views of learning by questioning. What would you have learnt from all uncalled for questions Gyani has quoted? What questions Guru ji raised as per your quotes, are already answered by Guru himself, that was his style of expression (not learning by questioning as you think.) First of all, your quotes do not support anything you say; however, lets look at where there is question- like statements if they support you
    ਕਿਵ ਸਚਿਆਰਾ ਹੋਈਐ ਕਿਵ ਕੂੜੈ ਤੁਟੈ ਪਾਲਿ
    Kiv saci▫ārā ho▫ī▫ai kiv kūrhai utai pāl.
    So how can you become truthful? And how can the veil of illusion be torn away?
    Guru Nanak
    Here above, Guru ji asks a question but in the following Guru Vaak, he answers it.
    “Hukam Rajaaee chalna Nanak Likhya naal” So where is the question? Isn’t it answered by Guru himself? This is Guru’s style to teach the followers.
    ਗਾਵੈ ਕੋ ਤਾਣੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਕਿਸੈ ਤਾਣੁ
    Gāvai ko ā hovai kisai ā.
    Some sing of His Power-who has that Power?
    Where is the question in above Guru Vaak?
    ਫੇਰਿ ਕਿ ਅਗੈ ਰਖੀਐ ਜਿਤੁ ਦਿਸੈ ਦਰਬਾਰੁ
    Fer kė agai rakī▫ai jiisai arbār.
    So what offering can we place before Him, by which we might see the Darbaar of His Court?
    Guru Nanak Dev
    Page 2, Line 4
    ਮੁਹੌ ਕਿ ਬੋਲਣੁ ਬੋਲੀਐ ਜਿਤੁ ਸੁਣਿ ਧਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੁ
    Muhou kė bola bolī▫ai ji suḏẖare pi▫ār.
    What words can we speak to evoke His Love?
    Guru Nanak
    Again in above Guru Vaakas, questions are asked to give answers as Guru teaches, answers are aleady given by Guru ji which you have omitted. What do you do with your questions? When you ask, do you answer it or just ask it? If you want to ask, Gyani ji is saying, ask else but “ do not question what Guru did or didn’t because only they knew why” besides, we, Sikhs, are given and told what we need to walk on spiritual path.

    ਤੀਰਥਿ ਨਾਵਾ ਜੇ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵਾ ਵਿਣੁ ਭਾਣੇ ਕਿ ਨਾਇ ਕਰੀ
    Ŧirath nāvā je
    is bāvā vi bāe kė nā▫e karī.
    If I am pleasing to Him, then that is my pilgrimage and cleansing bath. Without pleasing Him, what good are ritual cleansings?
    In above Guru Vaak , where is the question to inquire something? Just copy and paste is going on by you.
    ਏਹੁ ਲੇਖਾ ਲਿਖਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਕੋਇ
    Ėhu lekā likai ko▫e.
    Who knows how to write this account?
    Guru Nanak Dev
    Page 12, Line 13
    ਤੇਰੇ ਦਾਨੈ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਨਾ ਪਵੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਦਾਤੇ ਕਵਣੁ ਸੁਮਾਰੁ
    Ŧere ānai kīma nā pavai is āe kava sumār. ||2||
    Your Gifts cannot be appraised; how can anyone compare to the Giver? ||2||
    Guru Nanak
    In above Guru Vaakas, there is no question at all but factual statements by Guru ji in context of His being inaccessible, inexpressible or there is condemnation of that deed which is not approved by the Lord. Where is the questioning you are advocating?
    ਨਾਨਕ ਪੁਛਿਆ ਦੇਇ ਪੁਜਾਇ
    Nānak pucẖẖi▫ā e▫e pujā▫e.
    O Nanak, when questioned, the answer is given.
    Guru Nanak

    Using this quote to satisfy your own views, you have misused Guru Vaak, lets read it in its complete form, in the following, while describing beyond measurable weight of (importance)Naam, Guru ji is saying about weighing too heaving things with Goldsmith’s weighing scale, is not possible but through mere talks he satisfies the questioner, only fool can believe it because people who know the truth understand that he utters lies. Bhagat Singh ji, read carefully, you will not find whatever you have advocated in your post. Humbly I request you, do not distort Gurbani for own satisfaction if it is not a fact, God’s sake.
    ਸਲੋਕ ਮਹਲਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਤੁਲੀਅਹਿ ਤੋਲ ਜੇ ਜੀਉ ਪਿਛੈ ਪਾਈਐ ਇਕਸੁ ਪੁਜਹਿ ਬੋਲ ਜੇ ਪੂਰੇ ਪੂਰਾ ਕਰਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਵਡਾ ਆਖਣੁ ਭਾਰਾ ਤੋਲੁ ਹੋਰ ਹਉਲੀ ਮਤੀ ਹਉਲੇ ਬੋਲ ਧਰਤੀ ਪਾਣੀ ਪਰਬਤ ਭਾਰੁ ਕਿਉਕੰਡੈਤੋਲੈਸੁਨਿਆਰੁਤੋਲਾਮਾਸਾਰਤਕਪਾਇਨਾਨਕਪੁਛਿਆਦੇਇਪੁਜਾਇਮੂਰਖਅੰਧਿਆਅੰਧੀਧਾਤੁਕਹਿਕਹਿਕਹਣੁਕਹਾਇਨਿਆਪੁ
    Slok 1st Guru.Nanak, if man puts hearty love in the hind scale, then alone can he be deemed to be of the full weight.Nothing can equal the utterance of the one Name, which making mortal perfect, unites him with the Perfect Lord. To call the Lord grand, carries great weight. Light are other intellects and light other utterances. The weight of the earth, the ocean and the mountain,how can this be weighed by a goldsmith,with his balance using the weights of a tola, 1/12 of a tola and a jequitery?When questioned, he satisfies the questioner, O Nanak. Blind is the running about of the blind fools.The more they say, utter and talk, the more they expose themselves.
     
    #13 pk70, Oct 5, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2009
  15. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Maybe you should have ASKED me if I got the point of his post, which I did FYI. I stand by what I said. Questioning is part of learning and thinking. Like you suggest, it can also be used to teach. Either way, humans question! that is what we do!

    NO i haven't twisted anything to suit my views. I merely presented the questions the Gurus have asked. It does not matter if they present their views to the question or not, or that it is their style. They have asked the questions, that is what matters!
     
  16. pk70

    pk70
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    This is what you have quoted
    ਨਾਨਕ ਪੁਛਿਆ ਦੇਇ ਪੁਜਾਇ
    Nānak pucẖẖi▫ā e▫e pujā▫e.
    O Nanak, when questioned, the answer is given.

    and think Guu ji supports you in questioning and learning but it is used by Guru to tell about those who satisfy questioners to fool others who do not know, how you can justify that this Guru Vaak supports questioning and learning. By the way this quote is used by you totally out of context.
    You stand by your stand, it doesnt matter to me but Gurbani quotes you quoted do not support you that is for share. I have no intention to question you or your views, its none of my business; however, falsely you cannot use Gurbani to support you when it doesnt.

    Had you understood Gyani ji, you wouldnt have given quotes of Gurbani that do not support you.
     
    #15 pk70, Oct 5, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2009
  17. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    :confused:
     
  18. pk70

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    Read the whole shabad, and figure it out in what context "question is answered " is used, if still confusion remains, May Waheguru bless you

    ਸਲੋਕ ਮਹਲਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਤੁਲੀਅਹਿ ਤੋਲ ਜੇ ਜੀਉ ਪਿਛੈ ਪਾਈਐ ਇਕਸੁ ਪੁਜਹਿ ਬੋਲ ਜੇ ਪੂਰੇ ਪੂਰਾ ਕਰਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਵਡਾ ਆਖਣੁ ਭਾਰਾ ਤੋਲੁ ਹੋਰ ਹਉਲੀ ਮਤੀ ਹਉਲੇ ਬੋਲ ਧਰਤੀ ਪਾਣੀ ਪਰਬਤ ਭਾਰੁ ਕਿਉ ਕੰਡੈ ਤੋਲੈ ਸੁਨਿਆਰੁ ਤੋਲਾ ਮਾਸਾ ਰਤਕ ਪਾਇ ਨਾਨਕ ਪੁਛਿਆ ਦੇਇ ਪੁਜਾਇ ਮੂਰਖ ਅੰਧਿਆ ਅੰਧੀ ਧਾਤੁ ਕਹਿ ਕਹਿ ਕਹਣੁ ਕਹਾਇਨਿ ਆਪੁ
    Slok 1st Guru. Nanak, if man puts hearty love in the hind scale, then alone can he be deemed to be of the full weight. Nothing can equal the utterance of the one Name, which making mortal perfect, unites him with the Perfect Lord. To call the Lord grand, carries great weight. Light are other intellects and light other utterances. The weight of the earth, the ocean and the mountain, how can this be weighed by a goldsmith, with his balance using the weights of a tola, 1/12 of a tola and a jequitery? When questioned, he satisfies the questioner, O Nanak. Blind is the running about of the blind fools. The more they say, utter and talk, the more they expose themselves.
     
  19. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Ok i just looked over another translation of it. Dr. Sant Singh's translation was different. I used it based on his translation which made sense.
    Anyhow, Bhai Manmohan SIngh's translation also made sene. So i apologize for using the shabad:) .. incorrectly?
     
  20. pk70

    pk70
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    Ok i just looked over another translation of it. Dr. Sant Singh's translation was different. I used it based on his translation which made sense.
    Anyhow, Bhai Manmohan SIngh's translation also made sene. So i apologize for using the shabad:) .. incorrectly? ( quote Bhagat Singh ji)

    You do not need to apologize any one, just remain careful, if possible while quoting read whole Shabad, Sant Singh Khalsa has misinterpreted Gurbani more than any one scholar. I regard him still at least he took time to translate it but damage is done.
    Manmohan Singh is better than him but blunders occured in his translation too. Gurbani is our sacred scripture, we should do our best to use it as Guru ji intended to use it.
     

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