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Learn Punjabi Gurmukhi

Discussion in 'Language, Arts & Culture' started by seeker3k, Feb 26, 2009.

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  1. seeker3k

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    Can some one tell me who and when invented Gurmukhi?
    As we can see the om as written in Hindi. And Ek Om Kar in Gurmukhi. They are not same. Did Nanak wrote in Gurmukhi? It looks like
    not. As I understand from the books. It was 2nd Guru who compiled not Nanak. I can not find any writing at the time of Nanak. So Nanak must have written in Hindi, Devnagri or brij. Which ever lip Nanak wrote it was not Gurmukhi. This ek omkar is written in Gurmukhi, Nanak did not write it then who wrote it?
    For some reason the image of OM and Ek omkar is not listed. I dont know why. But every one know what I am trying to show.
     
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  3. Archived_member7

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    Source : http://www.sikhyaseekers.net/word/THE%20ORIGIN%20OF%20GURMUKHI%20SCRIPT.doc

    I am pasting below some inportant points of the document :


    Gurmukhi script, particularly its name 'Gurmukhi', irks some scholars beyond the limits of scholarly patience. Unfortunately some of these scholars do not know that it is a script and are completely ignorant of the history of Indian scripts. Others, who have reasonable information about the history of our scripts, simply pick up some letters from some old works and declare, "these letters were prevalent before the time of Guru Nanak, therefore, it is proved that Gurmukhi existed before the time of the Sikh Gurus." One such scholar is Mr. Chaman Lal, who in his article published in the Magazine, Indian Horizons' states....... Gurmukhi lineage is traced to Brahmi script. The Gurmukhi Script came into existence much before the advent of the Sikh Gurus."


    Mr Chaman Lal, whose remarks, that 'Gurmukhi lineage can be traced to Brahmi is correct. Now, when all of us know that the scripts of Indian origin have developed from Brahmi, it is but natural that some, if not all, letters of the old script do exist in the new from which has developed from the old one.
    It is therefore, correct that most of the letters of Gurmukhi did exist before the time of the Gurus, but the Gurmukhi script did not exist



    Renowed palaeographer Gaurishankar Hira Chand Ojha, who is accepted as an authority on Indian scripts, accepts that Gurmukhi was given its present form by the Sikh Gurus, and also says that Takri and Gurinukhi both have originated from Sharda script. By comparing the charts of different scripts presented by him, we find that in general character Gurmukhi is nearer to Sharda than Takri, but it (Gurmukhi) has more letters common with Takri, than it has with Sharda.


    While shaping this new alphabet Guru Angad ji retained some important characteristics of Indian palaeography :
    a) He retained the system of representing vowel sounds with the symbols called matras or lagas.
    b) Uniformity in height and length of letters was also kept intact - the height of q is the sole exception.
    c) The method of representing vowel nasalization with binddi (and tippi)is also in conformity with Indian system.
    d) The arrangement of letters of alphabet in accordance with the place of articulation is also according to scientific lines adopted by ancient Indian palaeographers.
    c) As stated earlier Guru ji borrowed most of the letters from other Indian scripts.


     
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  4. spnadmin

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    AMAAZINNNGLY INTERESTING. THANK YOUUUUUUUUU! This is the kind of information that I feed on.
     
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  5. seeker3k

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    I simly asked if some one know of any writing of Gurmukhi at or before Guru Nanak. There is nothing in this artical that prove that gurmukhi was there before Nanak.If it was then sure there have to be some writing in the Gurmukhi. My second question was, did Nanak wrote in gurmukhi or some other language. If some other what was that language? Please copy the writing and put it here so we can see it. If not then it is only a belife thats all. What we can not accept it that Nanak wrote in hindi? Whats wrong with writing in hindi?
     
  6. spnadmin

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    seekr3k

    The answer is: Hindi is a language not a script (writing system). Gurmukhi is a script (writing system) not a language.

    Hindi, the language, is today written in the Devanagri script (writing system). In Guru Nanak's time it was probably written in Brahmi script.

    Hindustani, Hindi, and Urdu have been written in several different scripts. Most Hindi texts are written in the Devanagari script, which is derived from the Brāhmī script of Ancient India. (from Wikipedia).

    The article explains this point. Guru Nanak wrote in several scripts including Brahmi. The confusion caused by having several scripts was the major reason for adopting/modifying (thanks raj ji) Gurmukhi script. He could not have written anything in Hindi script because Hindi is not a script.
     
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  7. Archived_member7

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    simly asked if some one know of any writing of Gurmukhi at or before Guru Nanak. There is nothing in this artical that prove that gurmukhi was there before Nanak
    The document clearly states ..Gurmukhi lineage is traced to Brahmi script. The Gurmukhi Script came into existence much before the advent of the Sikh Gurus."

    I request you to go through the document once again ..you will get a lot of information if not all
     
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  8. spnadmin

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  9. pk70

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    aad jio I tried to explain this before, there is a difference between a script and a language but in vain. Thanks
    Posted article by Raj Khalsa answers that very well. It doesn't matter what script Guru Nanak used, no one translated his writings.
    I cannot write more that.
     
  10. spnadmin

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    Brahmi script

    Brahmi alphabet
    Brahmi Alphabet

    Origin

    The Brahmi alphabet is the ancestor of most of the 40 or so modern Indian alphabets, and of a number of other alphabets, such as Khmer and Tibetan. It is thought to have been modelled on the Aramaic or Phoenician alphabets, and appeared in India sometime before 500 BC. Another theory is that Brahmi developed from the Indus or Harappa script, which was used in the Indus valley until about 2,000 BC.

    The earliest known inscriptions in the Brahmi alphabet are those of King Asoka (c.270-232 BC), third monarch of the Mauryan dynasty.
    Brahmi was used to write a variety of languages, including Sanskrit and Prakrit.
    Notable features


    • The structure of the Brahmi alphabet is similar to that of modern Indian alphabets: each letters represents a consonant with a inherent vowels /a/. Other vowels were indicated using a variety of diacritics and separate letters.
    • Letters are grouped according to the way they are pronounced.
    • Many letters have more than one form.
    Consonants

    [​IMG]
    Vowels and vowel diacritics

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Archived_member7

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    What i strongly feel is the Gurmukhi script might have been developed because the Mughals could decode Devanagri ..now preaching anything different than islam was difficult ...that could be a reason for the development ..
     
  12. spnadmin

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    Takri script

    Ancient Scripts: Takri

    http://www.ancientscripts.com/sarada.html

    The Takri script derives from the Sarada script and was used in the western regions of the Himalayas. By the early 20th century, the Takri script has been replaced by Devanagari.

    The following is the basic Takri script.
    [​IMG]
    Similar to other South Asian scripts, representation of vowels other than /a/ is achieved using diacritical marks called matras placed around the letter.
    [​IMG]
     
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  13. spnadmin

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    Between the 8th and 10th century CE, a Western variant of the Gupta script evolved into the Sarada script. Sarada is used mainly in Kashmir from the 8th century CE onwards, and evolved into several variants in a few centuries. By the 10th century, the first variant, the Landa script, has appeared in Punjab, and would eventually transform into the Gurmukhi script. And by the 14th century CE, other variants such as Kashmiri and Takri also appeared in the Kashmir region.


    The following is the basic Sarada alphabet from the 9th century CE.


    [​IMG]




    Note: Sarada is also alternatively known as Sharada, Sarda, and Sharda.
     
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  14. kds1980

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    Gurmukhi: The Unique Invention of Guru Nanak

    Gurmukhi: The Unique Invention of Guru Nanak

    Dr.Kuldip Singh, FRCS

    * 2080 Sector 15-C, Chandigarh. 160015.

    @ Parasaraprasna, Sirdar Kapur Singh, p. 167

    Guru Nanak was born with the mandate of revealing a new religious thought and to build up a new nation on the basis of Truth. The Primal Lord wanted Nanak to project a humanitarian and scientific religion, and build a new nation shorn of all hypocrisy and mythology. His mission was revealed when he was taken to the teacher for imparting teaching in the crude local Lande or Mahajani alphabet with which the Khatris maintained accounts. When the teacher wanted the seven year old Nanak to learn the letter "S" or "sassa", Nanak asked as to what did that letter mean. The teacher said it meant the letter ‘S’ nothing more. Guru Nanak explained that it stood for the Sole Creator of the universe who is the one Lord of all of us. "Sasai soye srishat jin saaji, sabhna sahib ek, bhaiyaa" (Guru Granth Sahib, 432). The bani in Raag Aasa over which Guru Arjun, the compiler of Guru Granth Sahib has given the heading Patti Likhi, or the written alphabet, contains a line or couplet for each of the 35 letters of the Gurmukhi alphabet.

    Fristly, Guru Nanak appeared for his sojourn on this earth in 1469, the people of Punjab had been speaking Punjabi for over 1,000 years, but there was no script of the language. A crude script of 27 letters, called Mahaani or Takri, without vowel letters or mattras was used by people to note down accounts, record of family events and sending messages. By regarding the whole line they could make out or guess the meaning. Muslims had been ruling Punjab for nearly 500 years and half the population had embraced Islam. The official or court language was Persian, written in Arabic script. The maulvis in the mosques taught not only Arabic to Muslim children but also instructed the Muslims in observation of Muslim customs. The Brahmins, similarly, explained the rituals to Hindus on specific family or festival days. Indeed, observation of specific rituals was regarded as religion by both Muslims and Hindus. Akal Purakh, the one ever-existing Lord, decided to have a complete break when Nanak started reciting bani, or divine revelation, in the Punjabi language. Nanak started compiling this revealed bani in a very concise and complete scientific script for the Punjabi language, comprising 35 letters, 10 vowel marks and 3 other sound marks. It is an historical fact that prior to Guru Nanak’s writing Gurbani, no text had ever been written on walls, stones or paper in the now known Punjabi or Gurmukhi alphabet. Indeed, we can state without the slightest hesitation, and without any fear of contradiction, that Guru Nanak is the inventor of the Gurmukhi alphabet.@ There are hundreds of other scripts all over the world but there is no single inventor of any one or them.

    The Second Step: During his long travels across the country and beyond, spread over 28 years, Guru Nanak kept on recording his bani, which he used to recite and sing with his companion, Mardana playing on Rebec in various musical measures or Ragas. Not only this, Guru Nanak recorded the sayings, teachings or bani of other saints or Bhagats, whom he either met during his travels or learnt it from their disciples, the Bhagats having predeceased Guru Nanak. The bani of only those Bhagats was included who believed in one Lord, were against caste system and ideologically held similar views to that of Nanak specially denying the possibility of Akal Purkh - the ever existing Lord taking birth as devta or incarnation of Lord in human form. Their bani was recorded by Guru Nanak not only in the Gurmukhi script but also in the language of Guru Granth. It was the genius of Nanak, that in one stroke, he separated his followers or seekers of truth, or Sikhs, from Arabic, Persian and Sanskrit. Guru Nanak went on including, or co-opting, Punjabised version of words from many other languages and dialects into Punjabi as he went along on his travels so that people outside Punjab could also understand the theme of his bani.

    The Third Step: The identity of Sikhs centered on their knowing Gurmukhi. Guru Angad (Nanak, the Second) established the alphabetical order of the Gurmukhi letters and took active part in teaching the script and popularising it. He made the Sikhs learn the script and not only memorise the bani but also write it. Gurmukhi knowing and Gurbani writing Sikhs - the seekers, sought entry into the Sikh fold by partaking Charnamrit from the Guru. Charnamrit was the baptismal water prepared by dipping the Guru’s cleaned and washed big toe of right foot in clean water kept in a vessel. Booklets or Gutkas as we, the Sikhs, call them containing bani written in Gurmukhi script were the centre of reverence in the Dharamsals, as gurdwaras were then called. During the time of 3rd Nanak, Guru Amar Das, these Gutkas (nucleus of the Granth) were enlarged by addition of bani of Guru Amar Das.#

    "It was adoption of the Gurmukhi characters which reminded those who employed them of their duty towards their Guru and constantly kept alive in their minds the consciousness that they were something distinct from the common mass of Hindus." - Gokul Chand Narang, Transformation of Sikhism, p.48.

    It can be concluded the Guru Nanak commenced the foundation of a new religion by way of writing and preaching his thoughts in the new Gurmukhi script. With this the Sikhs became independent of Brahmins and shunned all rituals based on puranic mythology. Thus Sikhism starts with Gurmukhi, is indeed the foundation of Sikhi. Any individual who feels proud to call himself a Sikh must know the Gurmukhi script.
     
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  15. spnadmin

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    Guru Nanak in deed also wrote in the Landa script.

    http://www.ancientscripts.com/landa.html

    The Landa script derives from a variant of the Sarada script, becoming graphically distinct by the 10th century CE. It was primarily used in Punjab and Sind to write the Punjabi language, but it was not well suited as due to additional sounds present in the Punjabi language. As a consequence, during the 16th century CE, the Landa script became the template for the Gurmukhi script, which was created to better represent the Punjabi language.



    In the mid 19th century, the Landa script was adopted to write the Sindhi language. However, this proved to be short-lived, as Sindhi eventually came to be written in either Devanagari or an Arabic-derived script by the middle of the 20th century CE.
    The following is the basic set of signs in the early Landa script.





    [​IMG]
     
  16. spnadmin

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    The Third Step: The identity of Sikhs centered on their knowing Gurmukhi. Guru Angad (Nanak, the Second) established the alphabetical order of the Gurmukhi letters and took active part in teaching the script and popularising it. He made the Sikhs learn the script and not only memorise the bani but also write it. Gurmukhi knowing and Gurbani writing Sikhs - the seekers, sought entry into the Sikh fold by partaking Charnamrit from the Guru. Charnamrit was the baptismal water prepared by dipping the Guru’s cleaned and washed big toe of right foot in clean water kept in a vessel. Booklets or Gutkas as we, the Sikhs, call them containing bani written in Gurmukhi script were the centre of reverence in the Dharamsals, as gurdwaras were then called. During the time of 3rd Nanak, Guru Amar Das, these Gutkas (nucleus of the Granth) were enlarged by addition of bani of Guru Amar Das.

    Thank you kds ji
     
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  17. seeker3k

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    What you are saying is Nanak also could not have writen in Gurmukhi.
    OK what lipi did Nanak used? All you guys dont want to admit that Nanak wrote in hindi. In school we are taught hindi? All the books and newpaper are writen in hindi. The subject in school is called hindi. Where is written devnagi? It was Angad who compiled gurmukhi not Nanak. When Nanak was groing up he was reading hindi and writing hindi. Every hindu at that time wrote hindi and read hindi. Gurmukhi lipi is hindi lipi with some modifations that all. There are book out there of the Nanak'a time they are writen in hindi. Whats wrong with people that dont want to admit it was hindi Nanak wrote. He was hindu when he was born. Wake up.
     
  18. spnadmin

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    seelr3k ji

    I cannot speak for the others. But my "problem" is this. Your facts are off. Hindi is not a script. Hindi uses Devanagri script. So Guru Nanak, Mahatma Ghandi, Sri Aurobindo, and all members of the Hindi- speaking world did not/do not write in Hindi. No one can write in Hindi. So, they could not/cannot write Hindi without a proper script. In Guru Nanak's case that would be Takri, possibly an older form of Devanagri, and Landa for Punjabi.

    Gurmukhi letters existed before Guru Angad set himself to creating the Gurmukhi script that we today use. It is very likely that Guru Nanak also wrote in Gurmukhi script.

    P/S lipi is a font
     
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  19. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    The Proof of the pudding is in the eating !!!
    Guru nanak Ji Sahib wrote the PATTEE Bani (alphabet Bani) and the 35 Letters of the Gurmukhi Alphabet are used and their pronounciation is as we do it today.
    The HINDI langauge pronounces their Alphabets as Ka..Kha..Ga..etc and NOT as Kakka, Haha, Sassa as in Gurmukhi !! Guur nanak Jis pattee uses the current pronounciations of the Gurmukhi alphabet.
    Bhagt Kabir Ji also wrote a similar Pattee and his pronounciation is also the same.

    Anyone who can read both Gurmukhi and Shahmukhi cann tell you that it is IMPOSSIBLE to write PUNJABI in Farsee/Urdu/Devnagree script as closely as the GURMUKHI alphabets can. Sheikh Farid Jis sloks are the earliest known wriitngs in TETH PUNJABI..and sheikh ji must have used the script closely resembling Gurmukhi to do that.
     
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  20. seeker3k

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    do you have any writing of Farid or Nanak that you can prove it.
    I dont understand why there is so much hatred toward hindi. You buy books in HIndi and you can but newspaper in hindi. And you are reading it in hindi.In your shcool diploma there is subject called hindi that you write exjam in hindi and the marks in hindi. Yet every one here saying hindi do not exisit. I have never seen that much hatered toeard language. Show me the profe of gurmuki before the time of Angad Dev then you can say gurmukhi was there before Angad.
     
  21. spnadmin

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    seeker3k ji

    This is kind of strange...who hates Hindi? No one. We don't hate Devanagri either. :D What we actually hate is the papadopingo script. That is a bad one. (I am teasing you. Forgive me.)
     

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