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Sikh News Gurdwara in Melbourne, Australia Burnt Down 'An Attack on Religion'

Discussion in 'Breaking News' started by kds1980, Jan 15, 2010.

  1. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Melbourne Sikh temple arson 'an attack on religion'

    * Lauren Wilson
    * From: The Australian
    * January 14, 2010 12:00AM

    A fire was deliberately lit inside the Nanaksar Thath Isher Darbar Sikh Temple, which is under construction, in Lynbrook overnight. Temple elder Satnam Singh and Amarpreet Singh examine the damage. Picture: Stuart McEvoy Source: The Australian

    AN elder at a Melbourne Sikh temple suspected to have been torched by arsonists has described the early-morning vandalism as an "attack on religion", placing further strain on diplomatic relations already damaged by a spate of serious assaults on Indian students.

    The partially built Nanaksar Thath Isher Darbar temple in Melbourne's outer southeastern suburbs, home to a congregation of Sikhs, many of whom come from the Punjab in northern India, is believed to have been set on fire with the use of molotov cocktails early yesterday.

    Distraught temple elder Satnam Singh said the wilful destruction of a "God house" was an attack on Indians.

    Detective Senior Constable Paul Stow, in charge of the investigation, said the fire was being treated as suspicious, but detectives were yet to establish whether race or religion had motivated the arsonists.

    "At this stage there is nothing to suggest it is (race-related) other than the fact that it happened to a temple," Detective Constable Stow told The Australian yesterday.

    The Sikh temple, known as a gurdwara, is in the middle of a large empty paddock in front of a sprawling housing estate at Lynbrook, on Melbourne's suburban fringe. The fire could put further pressure on bilateral relations between India and Australia, which have come under renewed strain since the stabbing of a 21-year-old Punjab-born accounting graduate, Nitin Garg, in a park in Melbourne's west earlier this month.

    Among the members of the Indian community who visited the temple yesterday to survey the damage was the consul-general of India in Melbourne, Anil Kumar Gupta, who walked around the site taking notes and talking with elders. One worshipper, who asked not to be named, said he was informed by police that three molotov cocktails and a jerry can containing petrol were found inside the temple. Constable Stow confirmed that "a number of items were located to suggest accelerant was used".

    Despite initial police reports indicating that a group of teens had lit "a couple of small fires" in piles of rubbish in the temple, Constable Stow said police believed the arson to be a "deliberately lit fire" rather than a bonfire that had burned out of control.

    A police spokeswoman last night said investigators were keeping an open mind about the investigation.

    "We can't discount anything," she said.

    Victorian police have been criticised and caricatured in India for being too quick to rule out racism as a motive for attacks on Indian students.

    Walking through the blackened interior yesterday, Mr Singh said the fire was "very, very personal".

    "This is an attack on religion, this is very bad," he said. "This should not have been done, this is a God house, everybody who comes here prays to God."

    When asked whether he believed the attack to be race-related, Mr Singh said: "Yes, attack on Indians."

    The deputy high commissioner of India, V.K. Sharma, yesterday said: "We have no comment to make."

    It is believed two people were seen leaving the temple near midnight.




    Source: http://www.theaustra...f-1225819009767
     

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  3. Bmandur

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    Re: Gurdwara In Melbourne, Australia Burnt Down 'an attack on religion

    Gurfateh,
    Who ever did that must be sick mind heartless person. Gurudwara is our institution where we can learn our religion and peace
    Have any one seen Any Church’s being in this kind of situation No Never
    In Australia, every day we are hearing Sikh is being attacked or Sikh female or male has been killed.
    I would like request Sharomani Committee Amritsar and C.M. MR Parkash Singh Badal or our Jathedar’s from Akaal Thakat sahib to do some thing instead of fighting in our own country in Indian Punjab
    Gurfateh
     
  4. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Gurdwara In Melbourne, Australia Burnt Down 'an attack on religion

    Aussies have gone mad.Despite having 72 lakh sq km of land they feel threatened by a handfull of Indians who are their just for studies.It looks to me racism is the basic nature of Humans no matter how much you educate them it can never go
     
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  5. spnadmin

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    Re: Gurdwara In Melbourne, Australia Burnt Down 'an attack on religion

    Aus Desi ji

    I wonder if all of Australia has gone mad -- or if there is something very strange going on within a particular segment of Australian society. Has there been any recent analysis in the news or elsewhere that looks at the demographics of the attackers? As these stories mount, the impact on someone several thousand miles away is ghastly. Yet, I for one am pretty certain that Australia is "not like that." I could be wrong but would appreciate your insights into my question.
     
  6. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Gurdwara In Melbourne, Australia Burnt Down 'an attack on religion

    Narayanjot ji

    Aus desi ji has not responded yet

    Anyway let me tell you another thing.those who are familier with cricket know that Australian Cricket team can go to any extent to win a game that means using abusive language against other teams,sledging abusing etc and that too even with white cricket teams too like England.Once they were beating england and Boys in crowd were making fun of some of Englishmen
    .One cricketer went to talk to boys and told them don't your parents have taught you any manners and their reply was No ,but they taught us how to beat you in cricket.Even their cricketers have worst reputation in Behaviour.
    No wonder Even New zealand and England enjoy when Australia looses in Cricket.
     
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  7. spnadmin

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    Re: Gurdwara In Melbourne, Australia Burnt Down 'an attack on religion

    kanwardeep ji

    I think Aus Desi may be off-line now and did not read my comments and question. But it sounds as if you are saying that a high level of aggression is commonly accepted and perhaps it knows no boundaries. Aggression is needed for sports -- but I don't understand cricket so that may or not be true regarding cricket. But Aggression also needs to be tempered so that it doesn't flow over into areas where it doesn't belong. Just some thoughts.
     
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  8. spnadmin

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    Re: Gurdwara In Melbourne, Australia Burnt Down 'an attack on religion

    Do you think that there has been a generational problem in learning how to control aggression, that young men are not learning how to cultivate self-control.
     
  9. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Re: Gurdwara In Melbourne, Australia Burnt Down 'an attack on religion

    Nanaksar Isher Darbar in Melbourne ? Who do you think is the Sant who erected this building. How did he get the funds to build this building? Does the Sant have a 'holy' reputation in the first place ?

    Please feed me with this vital info first.
     
  10. AusDesi

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    Re: Gurdwara In Melbourne, Australia Burnt Down 'an attack on religion

    Look there are several sides to this story. Comparing this to Australia cricket makes no sense.

    These stories are just media spotlight. There are reasons why Indian students are attacked but racism is not one of them. In most cases its a stereotype.

    Now there are problems with Indian students. 1) They don't get adequate housing. 2) They have to work odd jobs to make a living. 3) some of the institution they study in are extremely dodgy.

    These are the background problems. These problems make the bashings possible.

    First, Indian students are forced to live in low socio economic violent suburbs because the rental prices near the city centre is through the roof. This puts them in harms way because they have to travel to these suburbs where most middle class Australians will not go.

    Second, They can only work 20 hours legally. This means they cannot support themselves AND send money to India like their parents want to. So they work illegally at night. They cannot put this money into banks as its illegal so they are forced to keep it in their wallets. Now the housing issue comes in again. Since they live with 10 other Indian students they cannot keep this money at home.

    Third, The institutions which have agents in India promise the Indian students accomodation, jobs etc. In reality they are nothing but shop fronts for Visas. They have a floor in a building in the CBD where indian students go to study. Sometimes they close down without noticeleaving hundreds of students out of pocket but you'll never see these stories on CNN-IBN.

    Fourth, now look at the problems above and you realise that in the minds of young "bogans"(note:bogans are non-white people as well), Indian students are "walking-talking ATMs". Any Jazza or Bazza who wants a pack of Smokos and Smirnoff ice black tins will beat up an Indian guy and get atleast $100.

    This is a stereotype not a racial thing although it might appear so. If they figured that Croatians all had $20 in their pocket they'd do the same to Croatians.

    Finally, This thing also plays into it but not as often. Some of these Indian students who have arrived recently bring their old habits here as well. e.g. talking loud on the phone, hitting on every gori and non-gori that moves and other things. That makes them easy to target as well.

    I'll reply to other messages later.
     
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  11. AusDesi

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    Re: Gurdwara In Melbourne, Australia Burnt Down 'an attack on religion

    Chillax son, Aussies haven't gone mad. They are not feeling threatened by a handful of Indians. What you're saying is that 20 million people are feeling threatened.

    In terms of education, even though Australia is a rich country it certainly has a low socio economic low educated class. Most of the attacks on Indian students in Melbourne have been by teenagers. Melbourne actually is going through a crime wave and even 12 year olds are arming themselves with knives though the Australian law does not permit one to walk around with a knife.

    The police certainly need to remove the criminal activity. However, Indian media also needs to relax a bit.
     
  12. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Gurdwara In Melbourne, Australia Burnt Down 'an attack on religion

    Dear Aussie

    Since the first wave of attacks started Hindu and sikh Australians were asking just to relax .Now 2 murders have happened and an attack on Gurdwara still you are asking to relax.I agree that Indian media need to be sensible but Aussie media too need to be take things seriously .I read reports from them and they are just giving statistics that how India is safe than Australia.

    On the point of low social economic class I just want to say that you 2.5 time the land and barely 2% population of India still Australian Government cannot educate all the people then this world should forget about Asian problems.Everyone knows how much Australia is rich in Natural resources .
     
  13. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Gurdwara In Melbourne, Australia Burnt Down 'an attack on religion

    I agree that Aggression is needed in sports.The reason I compared their cricketing behaviour because at one England was known be a team which can go to any extent for winning.You can search bodyline and you will read a great story that How englishmen in 30s started throwing ***** at the bodies of Aussies cricketers because at that time Don bradman was unplayable.England at that time was very much racist country.Also in sport like cricket if you cannot control aggression then you can never play it.Fast bowlers are specially known for their aggression but so many times they get thrashed and then batsmen make fun of them at that time despite sometime being 1 foot tall than batsman they can't do anything
     
  14. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Gurdwara In Melbourne, Australia Burnt Down 'an attack on religion

    I think it depend on society.Indian youths are becoming more and more aggressive and this is very dangerous trait.The reason Gandhi was good for any society because its non voilent teachings had mass appeals.Indian youth of that time who became gandhians not only controlled their aggression but adopted a very simple lifestyle and honest living

    I don't know about west but what i heard is that in Europe Young white youths males are not as much aggressive as 30 years ago were.About USA you know better whether Young men are moving toward aggression or becoming calm
     
  15. AusDesi

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    Re: Gurdwara In Melbourne, Australia Burnt Down 'an attack on religion

    Murders happen all the time in all countries. Just a month ago one Indian student murdered his wife. One guy in griffith who was burnt after being killed was initially thought to have been racially killed but then they found out he was murdered by Indian contracters who owed him money.

    Another Indian guy said he was set alight in his car. When the police looked into it, he was trying to set fire to his car for insurance.

    The gurudwara attack is unfortunate but with so much heat on the issue anything Indian would have been targetted.

    Here is a good blog.
    Attack On Indian Students | Racism

    Govt cannot force people to get educated. Public Education in Australia is pretty good but there is a whole generation of "bred-for-money" kids and kids of single parents. Their parents are dead, drugged up or working late to make ends meet.

    Another thing you might not know. Natural resources are in the hands of Central Govt and School education in the hands of States. Its not that simple to make them connect.


    Lets make one thing clear. You cannot understand exactly whats going on here and I cannot convince you that Indian students are not in danger. The reality is probably somewhere in the middle. Australian cities are relatively safe. However, if you're walking the streets of Frankston or Redfern after 10 then "twada rab rakha".


    On the other hand, I hope the result of all this is that we have safer cities.
     
  16. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Gurdwara In Melbourne, Australia Burnt Down 'an attack on religion

    Aus desi ji

    Racism is different.One can also say that brawls happen all the time,beatings happen all the time .But when a particular community is targeted then its different.If a robber or murderer murders his victim irrespective of race,country then we can say he is simply a criminal but if he chooses his victims from a particular community or religion then we can say that crime is motivated by racist or religious hatred.

    Well then I am sorry to say that I have to say that Australian society need change.I think Indians should need to re think how they look at western model of society.

    Its true I cannot understand fully but 1 thing I need to tell you is that many Youths will now drop the idea of going to Australia That include my personal conversation with my own colony boy.The image of Australia is tarnished very badly
     
  17. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    This is NOT RACISM..its the Indian media that is mad. Indians from Mlaysia/Singapore MIGRATED to Australia in the THOUSANDS and have bene living peacefully well integrated into the Australian Social structure....simply becasue they were ENGLISH EDUCATED, Professionals, doctors etc....UNLIKE the Punjabis from Punjab who are going in NOW. Its the Indians who should ensure that NO ONE GOES until they have a WORKING KNOWLEDGE of ENGLISH !! I know many Punjabis dont even know how to say A for Apple and B for Ball...BUT they MIGRATE to an English Speaking country..what do you expect ?? IF I am an Australian and I get into a Taxi driven by a driver who doesnt understand a single world i say...or worse takes me on a joy ride becasue he cant read maps or road signs..what will i feel like doing to him ?? WRING HIS NECK !!

    IN MALAYSIA..its the Bangladeshis/pakistanis/indionesians..etc in the same category...ILLEGALS..having cash etc .and THEY are EASY TARGETS..for Bag snatching...waylaid robberies etc...however there is NO MEDIA FRENZY..racism charges etc..becasue everyone knows its MONEY BASED....robbers dont go for race..they go for MONEY.:happysingh::D
     
  18. AusDesi

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    Re: Gurdwara In Melbourne, Australia Burnt Down 'an attack on religion

    Well thats the thing. The guy that got murdered was actually stabbed. Stabbings are happening alot in Melbourne irrespective of race. Crime is up like I said. Its not like only Indians are beaten up. I know white people who have been beaten up by Pacific Islander gangs. I know of white guys and Pacific Islanders beaten up by Lebanese gangs.


    India can adopt any model it likes. poor lower class people will always remain. Its a fact of life.


    Thats not my problem. Thats an issue of the governments.

    As far as I am concerned, most are here for Visas not education. Those who are looking for education will go to UK etc. Those who are looking for Visas will still come.
     
  19. AusDesi

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    Its good that you understand.
     
  20. Roop Kaur

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    Hi guys,

    Thought I'd put my two cents in this discussion as it's something I've been observing for quite some time, and have talked about with many Gore people despite being Aus-born.

    What Aus-desi said is in my opinion very true... in my conversations with many of my non-desi mates, a handful of them have stated that their anger lies in the way that many of these students act towards certain members of the community. For example, starting brawls (which i must say, not only desi's start), disturbing and annoying many girls on trains and buses, staring etc etc. I know this is no justification, as there are people of other cultures who do this, but I think because of the attention that Indians have been recieving in the past few years, making newspaper headlines and all, the students and their actions are now more noticed ... It's very sad really. There are so many nice boys/girls out there, who are ever-so respectable. I personally think that we Indians are some of the most respecting and humble people, and it's sad to see that the careless acts of a few have blinded many Australians to this.

    Just like some desi's who've portrayed themselves to be something that most of them are not, the same applies to Australians. I'm sick of hearing how "Australians are racists" ... that is complete RUBBISH in my opinion. I think the media has exaggerated all this to a great deal, fair enough my family and I have experienced SOME racial taunts, but so does everyone else? Muslims especially! ... Melbourne (where most of this 'racism' is occuring), my hometown, is a state of diverse cultures and backgrounds. I have many Aussie mates, who've shown nothing but respect towards me and my different way of life.

    I apologize, this post was all over the place and may have sounded confusing. I just wanted to make it clear... I also realise that this had nothing to do with the burning of the Sikh Gurudwara. This was devistating news for the Sikh Community of Melbourne. In comparison to UK, USA and Canada, I believe the Sikh community here is very small and not as active ... it takes many years here for one gurudwara to be built due to lack of funds, and we take much pride in such achievements. This was truley heartbreaking...

    Again, sorry for the rant.

    God bless.:D
     
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  21. kuldeepsb5

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    I think this may also be by.............................................
    becoz of the name NANAKSAR "ISHAR DARBAR"
    why it is not "NANAKSAR NANAK DARBAR"
    Why Ishar Darbar is not restricted to only one Gurdwara
    made in memory of Baba Ishar SIngh ji and the remaining ,
    constructed by "Nanak sar Sampard" must be known as ,
    "NANAKSAR NANAK DARBAR"
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