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Greedy Jathedars and Their Political Motivations

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by vikram9274, Nov 26, 2009.

  1. vikram9274

    vikram9274
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    THE CORRUPTION OF JATHEDARS- do they have right to judge
    I would like to bring up an interesting point and see what your views were on the subject. As you know, recently there have been a lot of summonings by the Jatherdar's of our panth. I think that they have no right to judge the likes of Darshan Singh Ragi or Kala Aghana when they themselves are thugs. They visit dera's such as this Baba's. He was caught in a motel with a woman other than his wife. Swore on the Guru Granth Sahib and lied. He is now involved in Human Smuggling. And just as recent as Nov 8th, JathedarGiani Gurbachan Singh (Akal Takhat) and Jathedar Iqbal Singh (Sri Patna Sahib) were at his dera. How can they justify this and then go and say they have the knowledge to decide if others are committing anti-sikh activities. I know the family at whose house these Jathedars stayed at and they told me that they heard they heard them talking on the phone and saying that they only come to the U.S. to get Lafaafe (bags full of money). I mean how can someone who associates readily with anti-sikhs such as chicago Baba, be allowed to judge Ragi and Dilgeer. Not they aren't wrong, but a criminal has no right to judge a criminal.

    A TRUE CASE THAT PROVES MY POINT:

    Apparently our greedy Jathedars who are puppets for politicians can not be put under public scrutiny. They are just as anti-panthic as Kala Afgana. Perhaps even more because they are in a position that affects millions and they misuse their power. They visit the deras of self proclaimes "sant babas" like the one in chicago. The very same baba who takes drugs, whos granthis smoke and drink, who married although he has a wife and a child in india, the very baba who wamanizes. These jathedars visit his dera, they go on stage and say they are in the U.S. with his "bidaulat".
    AND NOW I WILL REVEAL THEIR TRUE COLORS!! This Chicago Baba is involved in a feud with another member of the Gurdwara who he incorrectly removed because the member did not agree with the babas womanizing ways. He barred the whole family from coming to the gurdwara. Their children did kirtan and he told them to get off the stage while they were performing shabad. He threatened the children and called the police on them when they said that gurdwara is guru's house and everyone is allowed. The member has now brought a civil suit against the Baba for illegaly removing him as member for the gurdwara and kicking his family out. The baba went around making up lies that the member came to the gurdwara drunk and caused disruption along with other lies. When these Jathedars (Akal Takhat and Patna Sahib) were at his dera, he sent them to the families house to convince them to drop the case and that the Baba was ready to apologize and let them back in(why would he do this is he was not wrong?). The famiyl said no and that the baba had to be stopped and they would not let him off easy. When they questioned the jathedars about the Baba's womanizing and anti-sikh deeds (human smuggling, drug taking, etc.), the jathedars said that this is not the problem at hand and that they should take the case back or the family will be summoned to the Akal Takhat. THe family explained that the case is not against the gurdwara but against the Baba and that the jathedars have no jurisdiction in the matter. What kind of jathedars are these? Is this all they have left to do? We have millions of problems in our panth and they are doing the bidding of this Baba because he will most likely pay them an extra thousand or two? They ignore the Baba's womanizing and the use of a gurdwara as front for human smuggling and oppress a Sikh trying to stop this Baba and have his children be let back into a gurdwara? I spit on any one who supports this jathedar and conspires against a true sikh, even if it is a jathedar.


    BASIC POINTS-

    1) Do these Jathedars have any right to judge others when they stay at deras of baba's such as the one stated above? They are greedy and have political motivations.

    2) These jathedars think the can summon anyone to the Akal Takhat, as shown in the second paragraph. Since when is that right?

    3) Any time someone tried to judge these "leaders" on forums, people call them anti-panthic. Since when are these leaders above public scrutiny? I only bow to Waheguru, everyone else is common man. ​
     
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  3. Archived_Member16

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    With due apologies to all:

    They have set themselves up as the "Dharamraj" of the Sikhs ! When in fact they are the "MAHA CHAMCHAS" of Badals i.e. personal puppets for Akali leaders /politicians !

    Divide & rule is in their blood now, for total control & dictatorship. Their motto: "Do what we say, and not what we do !"

    They are the main cause of universal decline of Sikhism! They only worship "votes & notes".

    In my books they are totally irrelevant and impotent to the vast majority of the Sikhs in this day & age.
     
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  4. vikram9274

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    I will be completely honest with you, I AGREE. In my opinion, Jaginder Singh Vedanti, the last jathedar of Akal Takhat was a very good person. He stayed at our house when he would come to the U.S. and as far as a person, he was very knowledgeable and overall a good person. There was political pressure on him and he did try to keep politics out of it but on certain decisions he did fold. Jathedar of Takhat Sri Kesgarh Sahib, Giani Tarlochan Singh, is also a very nice person, very knowledgeable, and keeps politics out of his decisions.. Giani Iqbal Singh (Takhat Sri Patna Sahib) and Giani Gurbachan Singh (Sri Akal Takhat Sahib) on the other hand are thieves. I do not know much about the other Jathedars (from Takhat Sri Hazoor Sahib and Takhat Sri Damdama Sahib) but Iqbal Singh and Gurbachan Singh are without a doubt greedy and politically motivated.
     
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  5. spnadmin

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    Soul Jyot ji

    One thing that occurs to me -- this is something that has been played out again and again, maybe from 1902, the same scripts and only the individual bodies have shifted into the same actor's roles.

    There is also more to this than meets the eye from news coverage. What the simple and plain motivation might be for Badal to care so much or for Lamba to work so diligently has not yet surfaced in clear view yet.
     
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  6. vikram9274

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    I think it all has to do with votes. Large population of people in Punjab are Sikhs. We are a very religious people and if you control those that run SGPC or heads of Takhats, you have entry to all public events. You get to make speeches. It is all about networking and these politicians control all these religious people. This is the biggest problem in India as a whole, the connection between religion and Politics. I know that there will always be a connection but in India it is huge You have whole parties based off of religion, or who have strong ties into religion. I believe this is incorrect and only hurts both the political aspect and religious aspect. In the end, it is about money, votes, and power. Like i stated, these Jathedars visited this mans house and told him to drop the case. When he said no they said they would summon him to Akal Takhat. What job do they have in this matter? A person is suing a Pakhandi Baba in a civil suit in the United States and these Jathedars are interferring? Why? Because the Baba gave them money, that is why. WHen questioned about the Sadhs misdeeds, they said it is not the matter at hand. What kind of jathedars are these?
     
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  7. spnadmin

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    So the life, martyrdom, sacrifices, legacy and holiness of Sri Guru Gobind Singh have become their football? That for me -- not a citizen of India -- is where my feelings of sorrow reside. In that realization.

    That is my only reason for participating in these discussion.
     
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  8. vikram9274

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    That is the biggest problem. They do not really care about any of that. THey may have knowledge of history or Shabads but they do not apply it to their lives. Everyone knows that Chicago Baba deleted not wake up at amrit vela, or even do paath. But he has memorized lines from Guru Granth Sahib and knows Saakhis and he tries to act like he is a Sant. These Jathedars act like they are true sikhs but their deeds are not pure. I know kids in U.S. who have not taken amrit, eat meat, and cut their hair but atleast they try to apply lessons of Guru's into their lives. In my mind, they are more Sikh than these fakes.

    You have to be careful ji about some statements. :) narayanjot kaur
     
  9. vikram9274

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    Ma'am, it is common knowledge in Chicago that the "Baba" himself deleted Many of the giani's at his gurdwara also smoke cigarettes and drink. I go to his gurdwara from time to time and have seen Harjant Singh, who does kirtan and is a granthi at the gurdwara, smoking cigarettes out in the parking lot and drinking.
     
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  10. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    What is the condition of Punjabi sikh community,we cannot expect any better leaders.
    Female foeticide,dowry, illegal immigration,drugs etc. Just name the problem and we have
    it in our community.
     
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  11. vikram9274

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    Kanwardeep Ji, I understand that. But our RELIGIOUS leaders should be just that, religious. Instead, they have poltiical aspirations of their own or are politically motivated. They do the bidding of those who give them the most money. They themselves do not follow even the most basic of religious principles, yet we expect them to lead the religion or make decisions? They think they have the right to judge or punish anti-panthic forces when they themselves commit the most anti-panthic deeds.
     
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  12. spnadmin

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    But SPN cannot be a platform for a potential law suit Vikram ji. Even if it is true, we can be sued. You are making an accusation of a Class 3 felony. Please don't. :(
     
  13. vikram9274

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    I apologize. :)
     
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  14. spnadmin

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    No problems. Sometimes I feel that I have to protect our members and also SPN from possible troubles down the line. :happykaur:
     
  15. harbansj24

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    I think that there should be rule that the party in power in Punjab cannot be the party in control of SGPC! That is the only way to ensure that the Jathedars do not dance to the tune of the chief minister. Ask in confidence any ragi on the panel of Harmandir Sahib and he will tell you that he has to be on the beck and call of the VIPs meaning Badal family.

    This was never the case upto mid sixties when the party incharge of Punjab was always Congress and the part in charge of SGPC was always Akali Dal. Until then we had the sterling personality of Master Tara Singh at the helm and Jathedar of Akal Takht was a highly regarded person of the panth. We had ragis of the caliber of Bhai Gopal Singh, Bhai Surjan Singh, Bhai Sudh Singh - Pradhan Singh etc.

    Degeneration and corruption started when Akali Dal took charge both of the State and SGPC. Brief intervening periods of Congress rule did not help much. Amarinder Singh and Zail Singh only got into competetive politics.

    So to my mind the only way would be to institutionalise the system and that if the same party that is charge of SGPC comes to power in the state then SGPC automatically dissolves and fersh elections are held and the party in power in the state is barred from contesting. Maybe then the independenc of AT and SGPC can be restored!

    A crazy idea but worth a look, I think!
     
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  16. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    People get the leaders they DESERVE. Period.
    SIKHS too deserve the Jathedars they have.
     
  17. vikram9274

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    This is where you are WRONG! We do not get to elect our jathedars or the head of the SGPC. Those decisions are made in a room by people behind closed doors. We do elect our political leaders but we do not get to elect the Jathedars or the heads of Gurdwara Committees.
     
  18. spnadmin

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    You know the political situation with the SGPC, the jathedars, as pertaining to Professor Darshan Singh has now made a strange turn in a "strange drama." Everything has moved about 10 degrees off from the start. It is very subtle. It is very tricky. You have to really think about it to get it. And it is ALL about political manipulations. Pure and simple. Unless the political system is altered, this will continue indefinitely. :idea:
     
  19. vikram9274

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    An interesting Questions is that why the sudden change in Darshan Singhs opinion? He did kirtan from bani of Dasam Granth less than 10 years ago. Praised it, did katha from it. And one night all of a sudden it became fake? As for the politicians involvement, once again we need to change the way the jathedars are elected or the head of SGPC is elected. It is all political. And the Jathedars are nothing but puppets. Iqbal Singh has two wifes, is just a bad person in general. From what I saw of Gurbachan Singh and stated in the second paragraph of the first post, he too is greedy and politically motivated.
     
  20. spnadmin

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    vikram ji

    I do not know why Professor Darshan Singh changed his mind. This is an historical question, and it is possible that he is not inclined to discuss it either. Let's see what we can find out.
     
  21. vikram9274

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    well that is the biggest problem. They are taking certain writing and converting them to make sense of their *******ed arguments. They should be sat down on national television against scholars who have studied Dasam Granth and should debate. Bring up the parts of the dasam granth and how they go along with their interpretations. This way, they can not take certain parts and contort them to agree with their interpretations. Plus, this will educate the sikh population of the Dasam Granth. Truth is that most of the Sikh population hasn't even read the whole SGGS, much less the Dasam Granth. Rather than calling him and making him sit behind closed doors, they should also have this debate. People argue that this will just give him a stage to make his distorted claims, but if we have it well organized and have scholars there that can show that his points are wrong, then his whole argument will be destroyed. If we know for a fact that the Dasam Granth is written by Guru Ji and is Legit then why should we be scared of him and his views?
     

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