Hinduism Gayatri Mantra

[sanj007]

To understand basic points primal messages in Sanatan Dharma(hinduism) needs to be understood so again can you comment on those clear verses which do NOT mention any birth based caste.

Now again can you show your link where yo make your claim, as there are a number of anti hindu sites which have wilfully and maliciously misinteroreted hindu scriptures to suit theor clear and present anti hindu agenda, e.g agniveer has responded on allegations in link:
http://agniveer.com/839/vedas-dasyu-hinduism/

next have shown this:

Supporters of casteism oftenly quote slokas (IV.13) and (XVIII.41) of Gita to support four castes by birth. In sloka (IV.13) Lord Krishna says: “Chaturvarnyma mayaa sristam gunkarma vibhagsah” i.e. four orders of society created by Me according to their Guna (qualities/behaviour) and Karma (profession/work/efforts).

Lord Krishna does not say guna and karma of previous life. In (XVIII.41) Lord Krishna says “Brahmana Kshatriya visham sudranam cha paramtapa, karmani pravibhaktani svabhavaprabhavaigunaih.” It means people have been grouped into four classes according to their present life karma (profession/work) and svabhava (behaviour).

Had this division been based on birth, Lord Krishna would have naturally used “Janmani pravibhaktani” in (XVIII.41).

 

[sanj007]

To understand basic points primal messages in Sanatan Dharma(hinduism) needs to be understood so again can you comment on those clear verses which do NOT mention any birth based caste.

Now again can you show your link where yo make your claim, as there are a number of anti hindu sites which have wilfully and maliciously misinterpreted hindu scriptures to suit their clear and present anti hindu agenda, e.g agniveer has responded on allegations in link:
http://agniveer.com/839/vedas-dasyu-hinduism/

next have shown this:

Supporters of casteism oftenly quote slokas (IV.13) and (XVIII.41) of Gita to support four castes by birth. In sloka (IV.13) Lord Krishna says: “Chaturvarnyma mayaa sristam gunkarma vibhagsah” i.e. four orders of society created by Me according to their Guna (qualities/behaviour) and Karma (profession/work/efforts).

Lord Krishna does not say guna and karma of previous life. In (XVIII.41) Lord Krishna says “Brahmana Kshatriya visham sudranam cha paramtapa, karmani pravibhaktani svabhavaprabhavaigunaih.” It means people have been grouped into four classes according to their present life karma (profession/work) and svabhava (behaviour).

Had this division been based on birth, Lord Krishna would have naturally used “Janmani pravibhaktani” in (XVIII.41).

 

[sanj007]

Now also we have:
http://agniveer.com/821/vedas-and-shudra/

The meaning of four Varnas and Shudra in particular is completely different from what the Macaulay inspired intellectuals would want us to believe.
b. There is absolutely no element of birth-based discrimination or denial of opportunity for any human being in Vedic way of life.
c. If there is one text that provides evidence of highest level of meritocracy and equal-opportunity, it is the Vedas. Even the most contemporary texts on human rights cannot come closer.
Before we begin our journey of solving the caste-puzzle through Vedas, let us start with certain worship mantras from Vedas that mention Shudras:
Yajurved 18.48:
O Lord! Provide enlightenment/ compassion to our Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas and Shudras. Provide me also with the same enlightenment so that I can see the truth.
Yajurved 20.17:
Whatever crime we have committed against my village, forest or committee; whatever crime we have committed through our organs, whatever crime we have committed against Shudras and Vaishyas, whatever crime we have done in matters of Dharma, kindly forgive us relieve us from the tendency of the same.
Yajurved 26.2:
The way I gave this knowledge of Vedas for benefit of all humans, similarly you all also propagate the same for benefit of Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Shudras, Vaishyas, Women and even most downtrodden. The scholars and the wealthy people should ensure that they not deviate from this message of mine.
Atharvaved 19.32.8:
O Lord! May I be loved by everyone – Brahmin, Kshatriya, Shudra or Vaishya. May I be admired by everyone.
Atharvaved 19.62.1:
May all noble people admire me. May kings and Kshatriyas admire me. May all look at me with admiration. May the Shudras and Vaishyas admire me.
It is clear from these mantras that a Vedic person:
- seeks to be forgiven for crimes against all including Shudras
- seeks to propagate Vedas to all including Shudras
- considers all Varnas – Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra to be equal and respects them equally.

 

[sanj007]

We also have misunderstanding of Purush Sukta, which is linked to Ambista sutra

http://agniveer.com/888/caste-system/

Often mantras of Purush Sukta are cited to prove that Brahmins originated from Mouth, Kshatriya from hands, Vaishya from thighs and Shudras from legs of God. Thus these varnas are birth-based. However nothing could be more deceptive. Let us see why:
a. Vedas describe God to be shapeless and unchangeable. How can such a God take shape of a gigantic person if He is shapeless. Refer Yajurved 40.8.

then:

The Purush Sukta describes the origin and continuation of creation including human society and states ingredients of a meaningful society.
Thus, its a pity that such a beautiful allegorical description of society and creation is distorted to mean something that is completely contrary to Vedic ethos.

A son of Brahmin, if he fails to complete his education, becomes a Shudra. Similarly, son of a Shudra or even a Dasyu, if he completes his education can become a Brahmin, Kshatriya or Vaishya. This is pure meritocracy. The way degrees are accorded today, Yajnopaveet was provided in Vedic system. Further, non-compliance with the code of conduct for each Varna could result in taking away of the Yajnopaveet.
8.
Many examples exist of change of Varnas in Vedic history.
a. Aitareya Rishi was son of a Daasa or criminal but became a Brahmin of highest order and wrote Aitareya Brahman and Aitareyopanishad. Aitareya Brahman is considered critical to understand Rigveda.
b. Ailush Rishi was son of a Daasi, gambler and of low character. However he researched on Rigveda and made several discoveries. Not only was he invited by Rishis but also made an Acharya. (Aitareya Brahman 2.19)

So we see clear nature, in every society there are different functions being performed, as different duties are required, not everyone is qualified to be a doctor, but anyone who studies can become a doctor, and that is clear!

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

From Gurbani we can know of the mentioning of the following MANTRAs

MAHA MANTRA

MOOL MANTRA

BEEJ MANTRA

NAAM MANTRA

We should understand what are theaes mantras.We can see there is definite message for adoption of above mantras in daily life.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[sanj007]

Have the following reply:

Dear Dogra

Kindly visit http://agniveer.com/category/objectives/caste-system/ to know the real stand of vedas on caste system. No Apastambha Sutra can overrule vedas. Please go through all the articles from starting of the series.

as per previous posts verses are clear

also:

First of all one must understand that Smriti texts, like the Apastambha Sutras are always secondary in authority to Sruti texts like the Vedas.If they contradict Sruti these texts are not considered to be authentic Vedic texts, and are disregarded, or the particular contradicting verse is seen as a later interpolation, and disregarded

 

[aristotle]

@Dogra Ji,
I'm not for knowing about the hierarchy of Hindu texts. That clearly shows that you have no clear answer refuting the Apstambha Sutra.
Even the Bhagavad Gita is not a Vedic text, who do then you give references of the Gita, just because it is more popular? It was clearly written centuries after the Vedas.
More importantly, the Vedas do not refute 'casteism by birth'. They intead reinforce the authority of Brahmins and the 'janeu' (=sacred thread). Till date, no 'born' Shudra can wear the sacred thread. If it were possible, this discussion would never have dragged this far.
The Hindu society is directly dependent on the Vedic school of thought, of which the Kalpa Sutra (Of which the Apstambha Sutra forms a part) is one of the most 'authentic' products. By questioning them, you are directly questioning the present-day Hindu rituals and rites.(=Temples, Idol worship, Havan-Yagyas, Poojas etc.)

I'm afraid I am not satisfied to the least bit, what you managed to give was a cover-up not an answer.

 

[sanj007]

The Apstambha Sutra is not shrutri its like Manu smritri, so simply put anything that contradicts Vedas is rejected.
Bhagavad Gita, does that contradict Vedas, well.
This is not difficult, clear verses of primal points have been provided, Vedas extol mertitocracy and again let us see verses:

Yajurved 18.48:
O Lord! Provide enlightenment/ compassion to our Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas and Shudras. Provide me also with the same enlightenment so that I can see the truth.
Yajurved 20.17:
Whatever crime we have committed against my village, forest or committee; whatever crime we have committed through our organs, whatever crime we have committed against Shudras and Vaishyas, whatever crime we have done in matters of Dharma, kindly forgive us relieve us from the tendency of the same.
Yajurved 26.2:
The way I gave this knowledge of Vedas for benefit of all humans, similarly you all also propagate the same for benefit of Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Shudras, Vaishyas, Women and even most downtrodden. The scholars and the wealthy people should ensure that they not deviate from this message of mine.

Simple!

In olden times there were basic functions in society, this is what Vedas talk about, names are given to these functions, but any person can become any profession reagrdless of family born into as has been shown clearly.
There is no rhyme, reason login nor reconciliation of primal basis points from your assertion.
Can you respond to basis points as asked for previously.
How can an individual understand scriptures when they negate the primal points, how?
No matter verses will keep on coming for the truth will reveal all, simple enough.

My caste is human, my function in society is something else, but there is dignity of labour to all functions, and no birth based caste in scriptures and thats a fact!!

 

[sanj007]

famous people on Gita:

The Bhagavad-Gita is the most systematic statement of spiritual evolution of endowing value to mankind. It is one of the most clear and comprehensive summaries of perennial philosophy ever revealed; hence its enduring value is subject not only to India but to all of humanity."
— Aldous Huxley
tags: bhagavad-gita, hinduism, spiritual 3 people liked it add this quote to my profile




"In the morning I bathe my intellect in the stupendous and cosmogonal philosophy of the Bhagavad-Gita, in comparison with which our modern world and its literature seems puny and trivial."
— Henry David Thoreau
tags: bhagavad-gita, hinduism, spiritual 3 people liked it add this quote to my profile




"In order to approach a creation as sublime as the Bhagavad-Gita with full understanding it is necessary to attune our soul to it."
— Rudolf Steiner
tags: bhagavad-gita, hinduism, spiritual 2 people liked it add this quote to my profile



When I read the Bhagavad Gita and reflect about how God created this universe everything else seems so superfluous.

-- Albert Einstein (One of the most influential scientists of all time)

Mahatma Gandhi Quotes on Bhagavad Gita

When doubts haunt me, when disappointments stare me in the face, and I see not one ray of hope on the horizon, I turn to Bhagavad-gita and find a verse to comfort me; and I immediately begin to smile in the midst of overwhelming sorrow. Those who meditate on the Gita will derive fresh joy and new meanings from it every day.

-- Mahatma Gandhi (Spiritual/Political Leader of India; officially honoured in India as the Father of the Nation)

Dr. Albert Schweitzer Sayings on Bhagavad Gita

The Bhagavad Gita has a profound influence on the spirit of mankind by its devotion to God which is manifested by actions.

-- Dr. Albert Schweitzer [Famous Alsatian German-French theologian, philosopher, physician, and musician.]


Carl Jung Quotation on Bhagavad-Gita

The idea that man is like unto an inverted tree seems to have been current in by gone ages. The link with Vedic conceptions is provided by Plato in his Timaeus in which it states behold we are not an earthly but a heavenly plant. This correlation can be discerned by what Krishna expresses in chapter 15 of Bhagavad-Gita.

-- Carl Gustav Jung

 

[Ambarsaria]

From Gurbani we can know of the mentioning of the following MANTRAs

MAHA MANTRA

MOOL MANTRA

BEEJ MANTRA

NAAM MANTRA

We should understand what are theaes mantras.We can see there is definite message for adoption of above mantras in daily life.
Prakash.S.Bagga

Prakash.S.Bagga ji thanks for your post.

What is the purpose of your post to mention word and add mantra to these. Can you please quote complete Gurbani Sabads and give your understanding.

If I were to take your approach I can pick up a word like "Donkey" and pick up another word like "Ishwar" and combine it to the following in your style of nonsense,

Ishwar Donkey.

We should understand what are the Donkey and Ishwar.

How profound

You show up not with any discourse but mis-leading statements as though so called "Mantras" have the meaning in which context this thread is flowing and are so included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Sorry to say, very disgusting and shameful indeed to see .

Very very sad indeed. May your Prabu, Krishna, Ramu, etc., :motherlylove: give you the courage to use the wisdom to be upfront versus mis-leading. I am not holding my breath though as all I expect is some one liners as is your style.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[aristotle]

@Dogra Ji
Still the basic question remains, how is the Bhagavad Gita superior to the Apstambha Sutra, even when we know that the Sutra is more ancient and a direct product of the Vedic school of thought. You have cleverly escaped the question.
Anyway, I have understood that you'll not give me a clear answer, and I am not going to waste my time asking for an answer. Take your time, and live in misunderstandings. Better things for me to do than waste my time on this thread.

 

[sanj007]

Aristotle, now you are moving to what is superior, that is up to Hindu faith.

Basic fact is Vedas are primary source and any individual verses which contradict main messages in Vedas are null and void, simple as, easy as A,B,C. Vedas teach to practice humanity as verses are clear

Odd non hindu faith individuals telling Hindu faith what their faith is about despite scriptures showing clearly what it is about, and picking on verses from non main holy texts as some sort of ha told u so attitude. No!!

Now can you comment on primal points as requested a few times now, ok, heres a refresher again:

these are primal messages :

1) Lord Krishna: God resides in hearts of ALL beings;

2) Karma Yoga-Selfless service;

3) Moksha-end game for hindu faith, but merging with god only allowed if lead a noble life;

Can you respond to these primal points, otherwise how can you hope to understand later points?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

AMBARSARIA Ji,
I am greatly surprised at your information about Gurbani.You are quite expert to findout the relevent verses related to this.I want you should do this yourself and this way you can learn better from SGGS .
With best wishes
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Ambarsaria]

AMBARSARIA Ji,
I am greatly surprised at your information about Gurbani.You are quite expert to findout the relevent verses related to this.I want you should do this yourself and this way you can learn better from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji .
With best wishes
Prakash.S.Bagga

Prakash.S.Bagga ji you continue to violate TOS regarding posting excerpts from SGGS. When asked you tell people to do it themselves. We are so thankful to you for giving us jobs. What stupidity.

Me and others have helped you in the past as temporary measure in case you did not know how to do it. You have proven at times that you know how to do it but don't want to do it. If that is the case please don't refer to words and tuks or sabads from SGGS without posting in full. Don't tell others that they can do themselves when it is your post and elements in your post.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Aristotle, now you are moving to what is superior, that is up to Hindu faith.

Basic fact is Vedas are primary source and any individual verses which contradict main messages in Vedas are null and void, simple as, easy as A,B,C. Vedas teach to practice humanity as verses are clear

Odd non hindu faith individuals telling Hindu faith what their faith is about despite scriptures showing clearly what it is about, and picking on verses from non main holy texts as some sort of ha told u so attitude. No!!

Now can you comment on primal points as requested a few times now, ok, heres a refresher again:......<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

Dogra ji one comment. You keep reposting same thing again and again and it is virtually spamming. If someone is not going to answer and has read I would assume that they don't need to be reminded again and again. This is called a "Mexican Standoff". One asking someone and someone asking you and neither side budging. It adds little to no value in a thread other than some conceited belief of winning points.

You may be interested in the following,

[URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AC%E0%A9%87%E0%A8%A6"]ਬੇਦ

ਪੁਰਾਨ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸੁਧਾਖ੍ਯ੍ਯਰ ॥ ਕੀਨੇ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਇਕ ਆਖ੍ਯ੍ਯਰ ॥
Beḏ purān simriṯ suḏẖākẖ▫yar. Kīne rām nām ik ākẖ▫yar.
Ved, puran and siritees use pure words to describe. Only the creator’s name has been recognized to be the purest.
(http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sukhmani-sahib/37672-sukhmani-sahib-astpadi-1-sabad-1-a.html)

[/URL]
It simply states that Vedas and the like have not addressed the true creator. SGGS is about creator and creation and living in the knowledge of such. This is core of Sikhism.

Take care.

 

[sanj007]

Ambarsaria, fair enough to an extent, but when individual verses from non main hindu texts get quoted and the basic primal messages are not answered then what conclusion can one draw, when non hindu faith individuals think they can tell hindu faith there own faith when verses are clear, and reveals truth.

Pointless just coming out with one *** bit which cannot reconcile to the main messages, when there is no reconciliation one has to question.

Please note have produced many verses.
As regards your quote from Guru Granth Sahibji, you are entitled to your beliefs and i to mine, i dont have the knowledge to talk about GGSji so will not attempt to tell you about your faith though i may ask questions later...

 

[sanj007]

http://agniveer.com/1553/origin-of-vedas/

Shankaracharya writes in commentary on Geeta 3.15 that Vedas are actually never created or destroyed. They merely get illuminated and de-illuminated but remain in Ishwar.
Rigveda 10.190.3 states that the creation remains same in all cycles and hence even the constitution of the creation – the Vedas – also remain exactly the same.

Vedic belief

 

[Ambarsaria]

Ambarsaria, fair enough to an extent, but when individual verses from non main hindu texts get quoted and the basic primal messages are not answered then what conclusion can one draw, when non hindu faith individuals think they can tell hindu faith there own faith when verses are clear, and reveals truth.

dogra ji thanks for your post.

Dogra veer ji one always has a choice. You can become bigger, take the higher ground and ignore such postulations.

Thanks.

 

[ravneet_sb]

Sat Sri Akaal,

One love to learn, acquire

Machine Language C ++ or Dot Net

First car invented or BMW or Volks

One can answer to self and follow the same
for other developed and advanced ways in religion also

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 

[Ambarsaria]

Sat Sri Akaal,

One love to learn, acquire

Machine Language C ++ or Dot Net

First car invented or BMW or Volks

One can answer to self and follow the same
for other developed and advanced ways in religion also

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Kid one never gets a straight answer or on topic from you. What are you on! lol Your cuteness hurts.

Sat Sri Akal.