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From Freedom Struggle to Political Stage

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Archived_Member16, Apr 17, 2007.

  1. Archived_Member16

    Archived_Member16
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    From freedom struggle to political stage

    From freedom struggle to political stage
    Amrita Chaudhry
    Monday , April 16, 2007

    Ludhiana, April 15: The Naamdharis, better known as the Kukas, take the credit for starting India's first freedom struggle in 1857, a month before the Sepoy Mutiny. This movement gradually transformed into a sect, which, in the last few years, has gained a lot of political importance.

    While in the last regime, member of the community HS Hanspal was chosen the PPCC chief, now SAD Chief Minister Parkash Singh Badal is wooing the Kukas by announcing a state function on the 150th anniversary of the movement.

    Interestingly, at the function organised today at Bhaini Sahib, the spiritual centre of the sect, the Chief Minister shared the stage with controversial Nihang chief Ajit Singh Poohla, VHP president Ashok Singhal and leaders of the Shiv Sena.


    The Kukas call Satguru Jagjit Singh their 12th Sikh Guru, against the basic tenets of the Sikhism. Dr Kehar Singh, a Sikh scholar, tracing the Kuka movement, says, "This contradiction of Kukas with Sikhism will always remain. As per Sikhism, Guru Gobind Singh was the last Guru. They also practice rituals which are not part of Sikhism. However, the Kukas have contributed a lot to the nationalistic movement, Gurbani recitation, sports, classical music, agriculture and health services."

    "As far as the CM wooing them is concerned, all I can say is that he is trying to project himself as a leader of all Punjabis and not just the Sikhs," he adds.

    Dr Gurtej Singh, another Sikh scholar, says, "The Akalis courting the Kukas shows that they are trying to attract all communities as they have lost their Sikh base."

    He says, "I have the letters written by the first Naamdhari Guru, Guru Ram Singh, in which he has announced that he is not Guru and the Guru Granth Sahib is the only Sikh Guru. However, after he passed away, the Kukas have spent all their time consolidating the 'Gurudom'. In this process, they have established the titles like 'Guru Gadhi' and 'Sache Patshah'."
    Lambasting Akalis, Patiala-based scholar Dr Balkar Singh says, "By holding a state function, the Akalis have accepted their (Kuka's) version of Sikhism."
     
    #1 Archived_Member16, Apr 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2008
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  3. simpy

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    (simpy previously Surinder Kaur Cheema)
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    Respected Veerji,

    i thought that Respected Jagjit Singh Ji is their 15th Guru.

    very interesting to know the thoughts of Respected Ram Singh Ji.

    forgive me please
     
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  4. simpy

    simpy
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    Respected Saadh Sangat Ji,


    my kooka friend sent me this data on her Gurus-

    first 10 gurus as ours
    following are their Guruship periods-
    11th-(Guru) Balak Singh -1812-1841 (Mahant Balak Nath of Hazaro)(The Namdhari movement was founded by Balak Singh )

    12th-(Guru) Ram Singh 1841-18.1.1872( Namdhari Sect was founded by Ram Singh on 12th April, 1857, at Sri Bhaini Sahib (Dist.Ludhiana, Punjab))
    13th-(Guru) Hari Singh 17.1.1872-17.5.1906
    14th-(Guru) Pratap Singh 17.5.1906-21.8.1959
    15th-(Guru) Jagjit Singh 22.8.1959-present


    their distinctive turban style was also introduced by Ram Singh Ji

    does any body know are there seperate factions within Naamdharies, may be some believe only in Ram Singh Ji and then Jagjit Singh Ji.

    forgive me please
     
  5. simpy

    simpy
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    Respected saadh Sangat Ji,

    This is an old news, from feb 2007, just interested me ....
    it shows that Naamdharies do distort Gurbani whenever it is against their traditions, rules and regulations.....



    forgive me please









     
  6. Dhanwant Singh

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    Respected Surinder Kaur ji, I am a Namdhari so first of all Sat Sri Akal,I have read your views about Namdhari's so I am trying to reply you May be then also you will not agree with me But I think It is my duty to clear some doubts you have about us
    So I am writting Few Pankti from Granth Sahib Ji. Ank No. 306 you can also read it & then you can reply also in which it is written GAURI DI VAAR SALOK MAHALLA 4:
    MALL ZUN PARRIYA,NILA KALA KHIDOLRA TIN VEMUKH VEMUKHUE PAAYA.PAAS NA DEYI KOI BEHAN JAGAD MAIY,GOH PARRSAGVI MAL LAYE MAN MUKH AAYE!

    So you have rightly written that our 7th guru has punish his son for changing the Bani, then how come 10th guruji oppose the Bani, it is true that during the war with Turks guru ji do wear Blue colours that is also some turks named Gani Khan who is a follower of Guru ji suggest to wear those & after escaping from turks guru ji Tore these clothes & do write in Dasam granth NIL BASTAR LE KAPADEY PHADEY TURK PATHANI AMAL GAYA I can also send you the copy from it


    The whole life guru ji wear white clothes & also give white clothes to PANJ PAYARAS Then also I am Failed to understand why sikhs always wear Blue & Black I think it is only because they assume themself what is right & wrong & what is easy to accept If you find Namdaris they are strictly following Sikhism becuse there is some one supreme if they do wrong deeds & our guru is intelactually also very much know what is written in Gurbani where as very few other sikh are aware of it
    In our life also if a child has a strict mother then that child will be very smart then the child who does not have mother or whose mother is very linent then you can see the behavior of that child also Thanks Forgive me please If it hurt your feeling but will be very happy if you answer in a postive mode I am not a spokesman of Namdhari, but i am a sikh follower My Business partner is also not a Namdhari but he is a true Sikh & i really appreciate him very much as he is very very honest & always follow what gurbani say Thanks Again & Best Regards
    Sat Sri Akal V-Vasdev,H-Hari, G-Gobind , R-Ram
     
  7. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Dhanwant Singh Ji,

    Sat Sri Akaal.
    Tore the clothes still doesn't make sense.
    Wear and practise makes complete sense to me.
     
  8. Dhanwant Singh

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    Sat Sri Akal ji, you have written that tore the clothes Does not make sense,It is clearly written in page no.306. that Blue & Black colour clothes which were usually wore by Muslims& pathans while fighting,those clothes were full of zuan & Mull that is insects&**** & those people who wore that clothes are Bemukh i.e. not believer of Guru & its baniSo when it is clearly written & then why 10th guru ji will oppose the Bani who himself is aTrue believer of Bani.He only wore those colour clothes for escaping from the TURKS & it was suggested by GANI KHAN After That Guru ji himself tore those Clothes & write that NEEL BASTAR LAY KAPADAY PHADE TURK PATHANI AMAL GAYA i.e when he tore Blue colour clothes the impact of toring of clothes results in the vichars of Turks also gone with that. But some people who has seen guru ji with those clothesStarting to believe that Guru ji while Fighting in the war do wear only Blue colour clothes but they never try or ready to believe that it is only the Trick played by our beloved Guru & he has not write any where to wear those clothes but do oppose to wear Blue clothes which all Sikh like to wear That is why Dehtari guru is required so that correct mean of Bani should be obtain--SATSRIAKAL
     
  9. Sikh80

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    1. I am not aware of Namdharis and their practices but as a matter of curosity, it would be enlightening to know as to what is the status given to the Granth sahib ji, by the Namdharis.

    2.As a sikh, I do agree that we need interpreters of bani but we need not call them as Gurus as it seemingly equates them with the Ten Gurus of sikhs. This should be the function/duty of the committees of the Gurudwaras only.We, the sikhs of Ten Gurus, feel that we have a living jyot in the Granth sahib ji only.

    What is the view point of Namdharis on this aspect.?

    Kindly reply at your convenience.

    Regards and ignore anything that is objectionable.
     
  10. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    OK, I see your view point now. Tell me what do you think about Neeldhari Sant Baba Harnam Singh Ji, I believe he was ex-communicated by Namdhari Satguru for giving more importance to SGGS than the Living Satguru himself. Please clarify.
     
  11. Archived_Member4

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    Dhanwant Singh ji,

    The shabads that you speak on by Guru Ram Das ji do not oppose the color blue or black, what Guru Ram Das ji oppose is the faithless baymukh. On this person being the faithless baymukh makes what he wears filled with filth and vermin. But the filth does not come from the color blue or black, the filth comes from the person and is transfered from the faithless baymukh to the coat, which happened to be blue-black.
     
  12. pk70

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    My humble question to you Dhanwant Singh ji
    Is this Guru Nanak's Shabad interpreted by your living Guru?
    If answer is "yes", your Guru has problem to understand Guru Nanak, if your answer is "no", then it is fair to say that though you have "DEHDHARI GURU", to understand Gurbani, still you need lessons because the color of clothes mentioned in Guru Vaak is used to qualify that class of rulers. Reread the whole Shabad, it is not about what you say.
     
  13. Sikh80

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    Reply awaited.
     
  14. Dhanwant Singh

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    Thanks for writting this question,Neeldhari sikhs are those who are of the followers of Satguru Ram Singh ji ,We also appreciates Sant Baba Harnam Singh ji, of his Nam Simaran & of his Bhagti & Sadhna,He is a very highly respectable by all Namdharis we never excommunicated them but as they are of the believe that they will not follow after Satguru Ram Singh Ji any Living Guru They have thier point that if we are of the belief that Satguru Ram Singh Ji is alive & he will again come in the same Kaya then we only worship him no any other guru,So my dear this is the answer to you first of all we never Excommunicated them secondly we both religion are of the believe that Sat guru Ram Singh ji still alive & we Namdhari also worship Granth Sahib Ji as the Supreme power this power is spread by our living Guru ji So we all are Sikhs & all are of the follower of the Supreme Bani so dear no Hate for any religions ---THANKS
     
  15. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    I have personally witnessed Satguru Jagjit Singh Ji matha tek to SGGS at Gurdwara Sahib Sri Guru Singh Sabha, Bangkok. He was accompanied by many Namdharis who usually do matha tek to SGGS in the Gurdwara. But this is not the case in the Namdhari Temple. Nobody matha tek to SGGS even though there is parkash done.

    Is bowing to SGGS an option ?
     
  16. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Dhanwant Singh Ji,

    Where can I find 35 Akhri da Paath online ?

    Can you state the types of banis which are in reading practice in your Namdhari community but are non-existent in main-stream Sikhism ? Also state who wrote those banis ?
     
  17. Dhanwant Singh

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    Thanks for writting, The shabad which I speak is by our supreme Sarguru Sri Guru Ram Dass Ji who is aware of all Past & Future you will be agree with me. Now the point is that Guru ji has mention these two colours & according to you that guru ji oppose Baymukh & the clothes are no concern with the Filth ,Vermin these are only in Person to Person , & Guru ji has only indicated these colours comparing to the different person.But My dear veerji There are several other examples where Guru ji has compare Gurmukh with Manmukh(Baymukh) but he never used the name of any colours, As earlier I have mention that he is the master of every thing He knew that Blue Colour is wear by only Pathans & Black is the colour of Dirt that is why he has used only these two colours that in future we his follower should not wear these colour clothes but i am sorry to say that most of our sikh brother loves to wear these two colours clothes but on thier head also where as if you research about this & you will relize that Guru has a point in stating about these colours then why should we wear these . Example is a very simple that Black colour clothes can be wear for many -many days & there is no need to wash where as if white colour is to be wear next day you have to wash it I think you will get answer by your self if you think it again. If you are hurt by my theory then i am very sorry-Sat Sri akal,Any other question Plaese feel free to write
     
  18. Archived_Member4

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    Dhanwant ji

    Why would I be hurt by your theory. I don't agree with it and many other Sikhs will agree with me as well. To get to what the shabad is saying I request you post the whole shabad and then we can anaylze the shabad.
     
  19. Dhanwant Singh

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    Thanks for writting ,first of all our Guru ji has never interpreted any Granth Sahib ji,but i must add that he himself is atrue lover of bani & never allow any body to utter a word against it so you must be very clear of this point
    Second about the bani I speak is the context from Granth Sahib ji which has a full mean in it self that there is a person name called TAPA who was a son of GONDA by whose name Sri GOINDWAL SAHIB Ji has named by satguru ji
    Tapa has become baymukh to guru ji then he was force to wear Blue Black colours full of fielths vermin &so on by the people who were of the view that guru ji is the supreme power then TAPA go to the AKBAR who was the ruler of our country & made complinte against the guruji ,Akbar asked that with whome you have complaint then one of his Mantri told Akbar that he is lodging complaint against that guru where you have gone with Bare foots & you have won the chittorgarh Kila with His blessing then Akbar also give punishment to TAPA So Guru ji write a Bani inthis context NILA KALA KHIDOLRA tin beymukh bemukhey payaya______ so To me it is appear that our Beloved guru has pointed that never wear Blue Black colour clothes I don't know you will agree with me or not But i find all the sikh love to wear those clothes which were wear by TAPA-Thanks & Sat Sri Akal
     
  20. Dhanwant Singh

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    Thanks for your quick reply About the bani I speak is the context from Granth Sahib ji Page No 306 you also can read there the meaning i can write is that there is a person name called TAPA who was a son of GONDA by whose name Sri GOINDWAL SAHIB Ji has named by satguru ji
    Tapa has become baymukh to Guru ji then he was force to wear Blue Black colours full of fielths vermin &so on by the people who were of the view that Guru ji is the supreme power then TAPA go to the AKBAR who was the ruler of our country & made complinte against the guruji ,Akbar asked that with whome you have complaint then one of his Mantri told Akbar that he is lodging complaint against that Guru where you have gone with Bare foots & you have won the chittorgarh Kila with His blessing then Akbar also give punishment to TAPA So Guru ji write a Bani inthis context NILA KALA KHIDOLRA tin beymukh bemukhey payaya______ so To me it is appear that our Beloved Guru has pointed that never wear Blue Black colour clothes I don't know you will agree with me or not But i find all the Sikh love to wear those clothes which were wear by TAPA-Thanks & Sat Sri Akal
     
  21. Dhanwant Singh

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    Thanks for writting Dear Nam Jap ji. if you have witness our Guru ji matha tekna to Your SGGS i think you must not doubt about any namdhari not mathatakena to Granth Sahib ji which is a pavitar Bani of all our SupremeSatguruji,In our Gurudwara if you come then you will find a special room for Granth Sahib ji & a person who is always namsimran will be there & it is the duty repeated by our namdhari Sikhs all the time
    I can assure you that all namdhari has great regards to Granth Sahib Ji ---Thanks & SAT SRI AKAL
     

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