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General Fragmentation Of Sikh souls

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by luv4u, Jun 7, 2007.

  1. luv4u

    luv4u
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    Dear Jeo,

    As per the scriptures it is told that the soul is industructible and that we are all part of the soul till we merge with the Super-soul. However, a basic question that sometimes bother is 'as the populatioon of this world is increasing there must be additional soul's produced with every increase of the human beings , Is it due to the fragmentation of the existing souls or it is due to some additions made to the existing souls?

    A mystery ,you may like to solve for me if you know. Your opinion is very valuable to me.
     
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  3. simpy

    simpy
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    Dear and Respected luv4u ji,

    First of all can you explain what do you mean by the fragmentation of Sikh Souls.

    all this seems bogus after reading all the posts you have posted at SPN so far including respected Hukamnamas.

    humbly asking for your forgiveness
     
  4. FiveLovedOnes

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    I fully agree with Surinder kaur(The princess of Guru) that question posted is baseless to be answered.We need better question to be posted n answered.Thanks.good job Surinder kaur(The Guru's princess).keep it up.
    :)
     
  5. luv4u

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    Thanks for your nice comments. Nothing is Bogus and none has the time for it.
    As I happen to be on Computer I shall answer you right away. As the population is increasing the number of souls will also be increasing, it stands to logic that the existing souls are either expanding to cover the increased population or are being fragmented to meet the objective. Hope I am clear.

    What is Princess of Guru? Never Heard of this word in Gurbani.
    Thanks for making the Hukumnama more useful.
     
  6. FiveLovedOnes

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    Dear Freind Luv4U ur question is really not bogus but unanswerable for a human being.Only the God himself knows what he is doing n maybe there is an answer available in gurbani but not sure though.Ur question is beyond the scope of human knowledge.
    Anyway all r children of Waheguru n all beloved kaurs r princess daughters of Guru Gobind Singh Ji Who created Singhs n Kaurs as Khalsas And so I said Kaur- a princess of Guru.
    Sat Shri Akal:)
     
  7. truthseeker

    truthseeker
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    Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh

    The soul...hmmmm.
    If im not mistaken we go through 8.4 million lives before coming to this one( a Human being)... and so our soul basically travels through all of these different lives right?
    Now assuming that there are no "new" souls being produces, but just more souls being given the chance to live in human form, then there would be no fragmentation, as nothing "new" is being produced.
    Like Fivelovedones said, Only God knows the Truth about the answer. But i hope my andwer may have helped just a bit
    Bhul Chuk maaf Karna Ji

    Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh
     
  8. simpy

    simpy
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    Respected truthseeker Ji, and FiveLovedOnes Ji,

    Truthseeker ji your answer is very clear.
    There is no soul fragmentation. Divine Jot is ONE. residing in every one(indivisble). Human life is given based on karm(karmi aavey kapra). then-punni papi aakhan nahee kar kar karna likh le jah aapey beej aapey hee khah...as well - nadri mokh duaar...

    mwxs jnmu dulµBu hY jg mih KitAw Awie ]

    rMgI rMgI BwqI kir kir ijnsI mwieAw ijin aupweI ]
    kir kir dyKY kIqw Awpxw ijau iqs dI vifAweI ]
    jo iqsu BwvY soeI krsI iPir hukmu n krxw jweI ]
    so pwiqswhu swhw piqswihbu nwnk rhxu rjweI ]

    Awvxu jwxw sBu clqu qumwrw ]
    kir kir dyKY Kylu Apwrw ]
    Awip aupwey aupwvxhwrw Apxw kIAw pwlxw ]

    If we read all the posts by luv4u ji. He/She has mentioned this fact in his/her other posts.

    Gurbani tells us about this again and again. Anybody who does Nitnem everyday, can understand this easily(provided actualy doing it attentively).

    The question our respected luv4u ji is posing sounds bogus to me as a question but it is interesting though, as it makes one think what Guru Ji says. Thanks a lot luv4u ji, you have brought us more close to Guru Ji by starting this thread. and again it is something that can make Gursikhs to ponder on Gurbani more and more, as many must be wondering about this and as this thread is proceeding, many may start paying more attention to what they read in Nitnem as well as while listening /doing Kirtan.....

    Me neech thinks that here is no question of fragmentation when we believe that GOD IS ONE, HE IS ALL AND ALL IS HIM. BRAHM MAIN JAN JAN MAIN PARBRAHM, SABH KICH GHAR MAIN BAHAR NAAHEE, JO BRAHMUNDEY SOI PINDEY......


    one can go on and on with Gurbani on this oneness........................

    anyways we cannot make somebody believe something, Waheguru dear and respected luv4u ji nu sumat bakhshan......

    Dhan Dhan Guru Sahib has not left any possibilty for such a question to be raised, me neech(Guru's Princess) thinks.

    humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness.
     
  9. harbansj24

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    I am too small and ignorant to engage in such a discussion. But I would humbly recommend reading of the incomparable "Guru Nanak Chamatkar" by Bhai Vir Singh to get nearer to such ultimate truths.

    I would, with my very limited intelligence like to say that none of us can get to the ultimate truth, for if we could then we would became equal to HIM and that would be the end of our existance in our present form!
     
  10. roopk

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    Veer ji,
    Thanks for rersponding.
    It is nice and appropriate reply. However, you do agree that in Kalyug there is an increase in the population of mankind. Hence the souls of other Junis are getting transferred if nothiong else is to change.

    Could you kindly let me know the site from where the above book would be available.?
     
  11. simpy

    simpy
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    Respected Saadh Sangat Ji,

    another thing that me neech think about this phrase- FRAGMENTATION OF SOUL:

    it sounds like ILLNESS = LOST SOUL = MANMUKH..............

    only a manmukh's soul can be considered fragmented as it is torn away from the REALITY by the instrument-MIND LOST IN iness, me, mera, mine,..... And only cure for this is Guru's Word/Shabad/Gurmat....

    mn myry haumY mYlu Br nwil ]
    hir inrmlu sdw sohxw sbid svwrxhwru ]


    min mYlY Bgiq n hoveI nwmu n pwieAw jwie ]
    mnmuK mYly mYly muey jwsin piq gvwie ]
    gur prswdI min vsY mlu haumY jwie smwie ]
    ijau AMDyrY dIpku bwlIAY iqau gur igAwin AigAwnu qjwie ]


    hm kIAw hm krhgy hm mUrK gwvwr ]
    krxY vwlw ivsirAw dUjY Bwie ipAwru ]
    mwieAw jyvfu duKu nhI siB Biv Qky sMswru ]
    gurmqI suKu pweIAY scu nwmu aur Dwir ]





    Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
    Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

    humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness
     
  12. simpy

    simpy
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    Respected Harbansj24 Ji,

    you are absolutely right, we cannot get to the ultimate truth, and Guru Ji says:

    jy hau jwxw AwKw nwhI khxw kQnu n jweI ]

    what we neech can say???????? we are nothing...............


    yes it is obvious that human population is increasing, WHY???
    based on Gurbani we can say two things:

    1. more souls are being given the human birth- a rare chance to get liberated
    2. less souls are getting liberated


    ry mUV@y qU ikau ismrq Ab nwhI ]
    nrk Gor mih aurD qpu krqw inmK inmK gux gWhI ]1] rhwau ]
    Aink jnm BRmqO hI AwieE mwns jnmu dulBwhI ]
    grB join Coif jau inkisE qau lwgo An TWhI ]1]
    krih burweI TgweI idnu rYin inhPl krm kmwhI ]
    kxu nwhI quh gwhx lwgy Dwie Dwie duK pWhI ]2]
    imiQAw sMig kUiV lptwieE auriJ pirE kusmWhI ]
    Drm rwie jb pkris bvry qau kwl muKw auiT jwhI ]3]
    so imilAw jo pRBU imlwieAw ijsu msqik lyKu ilKWhI ]
    khu nwnk iqn@ jn bilhwrI jo Ailp rhy mn mWhI ]4]



    we should follow Guru Ji's advise and take full advantage of this rare oppurtunity........ :)



    humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness
     
  13. luv4u

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    No one can say that some become Gurmukh by saying other as Manmukh. Who knows?
    Only He knows and time itself knows.
    WE should all be very careful in addressing others. There are many quotes in SGGS ji as to how should one proceed in the matters.

    Never pass your judgements and never be judgemental about what others do and think. Just carry on with your duty.

    Dear Jeo,

    As per the scriptures it is told that the soul is industructible and that we are all part of the soul till we merge with the Super-soul. However, a basic question that sometimes bother is 'as the populatioon of this world is increasing there must be additional soul's produced with every increase of the human beings , Is it due to the fragmentation of the existing souls or it is due to some additions made to the existing souls?

    A mystery ,you may like to solve for me if you know. Your opinion is very valuable to me.
     
  14. lovely_silky

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    Luv4u ji,

    You are right, one must be very careful while addressing others. Everything around us happens for a reason and according to Gurbani KartaPurkh is the reason for all. God The Almighty teaches us different ways. He has also given us the discriminative intellect to watch for good or bad, right or wrong. I must say, one must learn from everything. Learning ourselves and sharing the knowledge-Just like your doing. Seems like you are helping the Sangat a lot. One must learn from the behaviour and deeds of the person acting under the pressure of ego. It helps to control your own ego, as you are now more aware of the concequences. Learning from others experiences :}{}{}:.

    Learning and sharing always help.

    I am just sharing m 2 cent worth, fragmentation of Soul is the Lost Soul Syndrome, Surinder is right about it. And in Gurmukhi we can name it like manmukh.

    Gurbani says- jo brahmanday soi pinday. it makes it clear that everySoul is complete in itself. so how can we think of fragmenting souls or adding to it.
    Man tu Jot Sarup Hai. can we think of adding.

    I am not sure your question is based on what thoughts. But certainly you taught me something beautiful today.

    You know what I am thinking:

    God's Amazing Creation and His works:

    Jungles are disappearing.
    Several animal species are about to be extinctive.
    Not only the human behaviour, animal behaviour is also changing with time.
    Human population is increasing.
    Human life expectancy is increasing.
    list is endless
     
  15. FiveLovedOnes

    FiveLovedOnes
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    SAT SHRI AKAL
     
  16. Dimitri

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    what about the species that go extinct. what abt loads of dinosaurs and other species that hv gone extint. this concept of soul (in terms of numbers) is ridiculuos. According to Gurmat even plant matter is alive - in sense it breathes. this concept of soul running around doesn't make sense.
     
  17. FiveLovedOnes

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    U should consider again n again what U have written.bodies go extinct n not souls.To me it doesn't make much sense by citing example of plants n trees.If plants r alive do they not die.Yes they do like bodies of other species.Consider the answers of mine again n answers by many others n :advocate:develop a mind of acceptance n not rejection of truth.Drops keep moving in ocean n not the whole ocean.many drops(souls) gain the body due to their deeds while others(gursikhs) remain as drop so that no one can figure out the difference between drop in ocean n ocean itself.
    Nanak leen payoo Gobind sinyoh jeyoo pani sang pani.

    those who follow paths of guru Guru make them as his own form n noone can distinguish between Guru n Gursikh thereafter.So souls don't undergo fragmentation but keep rotating in birth n rebirth cycle for manmukhs while Gurmukhs r brought out of this cycle by Guru himself n remain always with Ocean Guru as drops.Then noone can figure out who is who.They become same as Guru himself.:)
     
  18. Dimitri

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    Acceptance off Truth, according to Gurmat the Creator itself. thats fine. Creator is and will be thats the etrnal thruth.
    Nanak leen payoo Gobind sinyoh jeyoo pani sang pani - for me this means, ppl who believe or came to realization that Eternal is - they live with that feeling. once u have realized it never leaves u. just like water can't be separeted.
    ---i don't know how that relates to the movement of soul through 8.4 million species.
     
  19. roopk

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    There appears to be a lot of truth in the statement . If the population of the world is increasing there should be a corresponding increase in the souls also. The answer is Yes.
    Thus how do we account for the increased number Of souls. That is the precise point that is raised. I also agree with Dmitri ji. One has to account for the increase in the souls and the increase in the population.
     
  20. simpy

    simpy
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    Respected Saadh Sangat Ji,

    Dhan Dhan Kabeer Ji De Bachan on Maanas Janam(Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji De Panna # 1159:

    gur syvw qy Bgiq kmweI ]
    qb ieh mwns dyhI pweI ]
    ies dyhI kau ismrih dyv ]
    so dyhI Bju hir kI syv ]1]
    Bjhu guoibMd BUil mq jwhu ]
    mwns jnm kw eyhI lwhu ]1] rhwau ]
    jb lgu jrw rogu nhI AwieAw ]
    jb lgu kwil gRsI nhI kwieAw ]
    jb lgu ibkl BeI nhI bwnI ]
    Bij lyih ry mn swirgpwnI ]2]
    Ab n Bjis Bjis kb BweI ]
    AwvY AMqu n BijAw jweI ]
    jo ikCu krih soeI Ab swru ]
    iPir pCuqwhu n pwvhu pwru ]3]
    so syvku jo lwieAw syv ]
    iqn hI pwey inrMjn dyv ]
    gur imil qw ky Kul@y kpwt ]
    bhuir n AwvY jonI bwt ]4]
    iehI qyrw Aausru ieh qyrI bwr ]
    Gt BIqir qU dyKu ibcwir ]
    khq kbIru jIiq kY hwir ]
    bhu ibiD kihE pukwir pukwir ]5]1]9]

    Dhan Dhan Bhagat Kabir Ji says human abode is obtained after devotional worship of God, amazing isn't it. So we all now in human life must have Loved Dear Lord/God in other non human life/lives that was appreciated by God and He gave us this body- human form.

    And he also says this is our chance to win or loose....... by loosing we will get lost in reincarnation again.......

    We have been told again and again by Guru Sahibaan to stop loosing time- DO THE USEFUL TASK

    NAAM SIMRAN, LIVING UNDER HIS HUKAM, GURBANI VICHAAR.........LET US LIVE THE TRUTH TRUTHFULLY

    humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness
     
  21. FiveLovedOnes

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    SAT SHRI AKAL
     

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