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Five K's of Sikhism

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Soulful_Sardarni, Feb 19, 2007.

  1. Soulful_Sardarni

    Soulful_Sardarni
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    Sat Sri Akal to all!!!

    I am new member in your community and probably one of the young ones. I have been brought up in a very conventional Sikh household where though I do understand the do's and don'ts of Sikhi but their is no one to explain me the basics of the same.

    I have just one question for all of you. Our last guru gave us five K's which were all equally important. But during the course of 300 long years most of the Sikh's have lost 3 K's which are Kangha, Kirpan & Kachhera and this is an acceptable norm in today's world. Then why are we still trying to hold on to only one K i.e. "Kesh". Any specific reason to give it more importance then other K's.

    Regards
     
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  3. Arvind

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    Only those who treat Sikhi as a matter of convenience, and not something commanded by Guru Sahib, they have lost 5Ks. And they also find all kinds of excuses to defend themselves, that is because we think that we are the smartest ones!!!?
     
  4. gursikh

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    Can somebody explain the spiritual importance of five K's??
     
  5. tony

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    Dear Gursikh ji
    I was wondering the same thing as the other day whilst waiting for my mother who was having treatment at hospital I read the first chapter of a book on the Life of Guru Nanak ji. It tells of how at the age of 10yrs old he refused to have a thread placed around his neck because it would not serve any spiritual purpose. this caused me to ponder on why as sikhs do we place so much importance on the five k's and of the wearing of a turban. I am now confused as to why God should tell Guru Nanak ji that we need no earthly things to show our faith then to Guru Gobing Singh ji To start the Khalsa with all its trimmings. Did Guru Nanak ji carry with him any one of these items to prove his faith in God. Are the five k's and turban any prove that one is truely following the teachings of the Guru jis. I am not trying to slander or dispel the teachings of Guru Gobing singh ji or put down the Khalsa but i am truely confused.
    Tony
     
  6. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Guru Piayario Jio..

    Your answer lies in the Fact that there is a "KESHGARH" fort at the Takhat Anandpur Sahib. The Takhat KESHGARH stands as TESTAMENT to the Importance of the KESH.
    ( Note that there are no kirpan-garh, kangha-garh, kacherra-garh and karra-garh ).

    This is because without the KESH..the other Four have absolutley NO VALUE. The KESH are the PRIMARY....the BASIC Foundation of the Khalsa....and no building ( even a kacha hut) cna stand for long without a Foundation !!

    Read Sikh History....EACH of the Martyrs were asked to Convert or DIE....and the Order was to REMOVE THE KESH...best example is Bhai taru Singh ji whose SCALP was removed in an attempt to cut his KESH. ALL including the five year old child martyrs REFUSED to DISHONOUR their KESH to save their LIVES !!!

    One BECOMES a PATIT by REMOVING/cutting/shaving/destroying/colouring/plucking/etc etc etc THE KESH. A PATIT cannot REJOIN the KHALSA until and unless he/she goes to the PANJ and admits his/her mistake...accepts the TANKHAH or PUNISHMENT meted out by the PANJ....serves it out and then REJOINS in assembly before the PANJ to RETAKE KHANDEH BATTEH DEE PAHUL. Only then is he/she readmitted to the Khalsa Brotherhood.
    SUCH is NOT the case with the SECONDARY Kakaars. Wearing them WITHOUT THE KESH serves no purpose.....and is of no imporatnce whatsoever....WEARING THEM WITH KESH INTACT...makes one a KHALSA/AMRITDHAREE of Substance. But NOTE that...REAL KHALSA JIWAN begins after Khandeh batte dee pahul....it is NOT an end in itself..its the BEGINNING of a Hard and difficult JOURNEY...Its NOT the "destination"....which many think it is....such people sit on their laurels and think they have achieved everything....in fact they have just "enrolled" in the Khalsa School of Sikhi and are in Kindergarten....with a LONG journey ahead of them..IF they go to SLEEP like the Hare...they will lose the race just like the Tortoise.
    Dont fall for the line that KESH were introduced by the Tenth nanak - Guru Gobind Singh Ji.....there is ample proof in the SGGS and Gurbani that KESH were emphasised by ALL the GURUS beginning with Guru nanak JI sahib. ALL the Gurus had dastaars and full length beards. But we must refrain from ...."just growing long hair to show off...Kabir Ji condemns the ACT of making ones hair grow LONG..or making it short !!! The KHALSA just DOESNT INTERFERE in NATURE. Thus IF a person is BALD by NATURE ( he didnt "make" hair short/disappear ) than hes just as khalsa as the one who naturally has long hair..BUT the Baldie "may" be abetter khalsa than the one who tries to "make" his hair long just to prove how good a khalsa he is..THIS is the essence.

    Stay in Chardeekalla....SIKHI and GURMATT is the RIGHT path.
     
  7. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Guru Piayare Tony Ji.
    Gurfateh.

    A common mistake many make is to "separate" the Sikh GURUS....when in fact they are the SAME ONE JYOT - and the culmination of that JYOT is now in the SGGS - so that we SIKHS can refresh our connection with the Jyot anytime we feel like it....thats why the SGGS is called the "living Guru"....its not a breathing guru..its the GYAAN GURU...the repository of the KNOWLEDGE/TEACHINGS of the Gurus which we can consult anytime we like and as often as we like.

    Sikh religion is one named after its FOLLOWERS...the SIKHS.....and NOT its "FOUNDERS".
    Secondly Sikh religion is one that had a LONG development strategy....running from 1469 to 1708 a period of about 250 years. ALL others had only ONE Founder and its all completed after his death.

    1. Guru nanak ji began the Religion..set its Basic Parametres. Guru nanak Ji wore a Dastaar and had long beard. He condemned the un-natural practises of those earlier religious followers who cut hair/became bald/shaved/made their hair LONG artificially/knots etc due to not combing etc etc...
    2. Guru Angad Ji improved on Gurmukhi as the Script of Gurbani....popularised the Guru ka Langgar concept of Waand Chhakna of Guru nanak ji...and also set about beginning SCHOOLS/EDUCATION and PHYSICAL SPORTS for SIKHS.
    3. GUru Amardass Ji further EXPANDED these institutions and set up MANEES - Centres of MISSIONARY WORK to propogate the Teachings of Sikhism. Guru Amardass Ji also wrote some more GURBANI...elaborating on Guru nanak jis Gurbani and strengthened Sikh Centres by constructing Baolis, deep wells for water etc.
    4. Guru Ramdass Ji began the construction of the TOWN of Amrtisar and harmandir sahib as Centre of Gursikhi..he further expanded the Langgar etc and wrote Gurbani.
    5. Guru Arjun Ji sahib completed Amrtisar, built sarovars, completed the Harmandir sahib and most importantly completed and installed the AAD GRANTH as the Compilation of the AUTHENTIC GURBANI of His own and that of the preceeding FOUR Gurus before him. He was martyred for his actions as these had set Sikhism on Firm Ground and thsi incurred the wrath of the Mughal Emperor Jehangir who was infuriated that the new religion was gaining such acceptance among Hindus and Muslims.
    6. Guru hargobind set up the AKAL TAKHAT to instiuttionlise the MIRI-PIRI Concept of Gurmatt. He stood up to the tyranny and injustice of the mughals and fought FOUR BATTLES in which the SIKHS were victorious. This is to show that it is justified to pick up the SWORD as final means of self defence. Sikhs who were being taught to be PHYSICALLY STRONG from the time fo GURU ANGAD JI...now proved it. Guru Arjun jis Physical DEATH under horrendous torture proved that SIKHS were also being trained to be MENTALLY and SPIRITUALLY STRONG..as GURU NANAK showed by challenging the RULERS and Mughal Babbar to his face....So Guru nanak ji sowed the SEED that is now seen bearing FRUIT....nearly 100+ years fater the death of Guru nanak ji.
    7. Guur har rai ji kept the Martial Tradition alive by keeping and maintaining armed forces of about 2000 around him at all times. Guru Ji went on a India wide tour to spread Sikhism.
    8 Guru har kishan Ji kept up the welfare work of Sikhism and travelled to Delhi during a smallpox outbreak to care for the sick.
    9. Guru Teg bahdur ji spread the religion all over India and finally gave his head in the Chandni chowk of Delhi as he was seen as a threat to ISLAM by Aurengzeb. Guru Ji was threatened to CONVERT by the horrible murders of his five companions before his eyes...Bhai Mati dass was sawn alive in two....Bhai Sati Dass was wrapped in cottona nd burnt alive....Bhai Dyala was boiled alive...BUT the GURU remained STEADFAST to his FAITH. Finally he was beheaded. He gave his head but not his faith. This is the FIRST and ONLY sacrifice for RELIGIOUS FREEDOM/HUMAN RIGHTS..because Guru teg bahdur ji gave his head to DEFEND the right of Religious Freedom.
    10. Guru GOBIND SINGH JI....as the Lst and Final Guru CODIFIED all the teachings of the preceeding Nine nanks before Him....added the Gurbani of the Ninth nanak Guru teg bahdur Ji to the AAD GRANTH and passed on the GURGADEE to SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JEE - bringing to an end the HUMAN GURUS. Guru Gobind Singh ji also fought 17 battles with the overwhelming larger mughal forces and made sure the MARTIAL SPIRIT in the Khalsa would survive all odds. He CODIFIED the REHIT the DISCIPLINE, the Khalsa should follow as per the Gurbani of the SGGS...be ever ready to have his HEAD on his palm...( as written by bhagat kabir Ji even before Guru nanak ji sahib in SGGS Bhagat bani).....as well as always being a Spiritual GIANT - MIRI - PIRI in full BLOOM.

    Thus it can be clearly seen that all the Sikh GURUS and the BHAGATS in SGGS are LINKS in a CHAIN...that culminates in the KHALSA PANTH/SGGS. The SGGS is the Spiritual GURU and the Khalsa panth is physical Deh Guru. There is no weak link..no main link...ALL are INTERLINKED in one big CHAIN Mala !! Only enemies of Sikhism try and separate the Gurus or Bhagats - or try to cast aspersions on them...like I am follower of only First Nine Gurus..so i dont need to keep the Kesh and five kakars etc..or certain bhagts are low caste..i cannot bow to their Gurbani..etc etc..ALL these are BLASPHEMY....attempts to divide and rule..divide and destroy... UNITED we stand..Divided we FALL...its all up to US..the SIKHS..the KHALSA BROTHERHOOD.:yes:
     
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  8. tony

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    thank you Gyani ji for your answer and please accept my apologise for any offence my question seems to have caused you. It is quite clear to me now that my question could have been answered by myself had id taken longer to think about it. if I have learned nothing new about sikhism today i have certianly learned to think fully about something before asking questions. I am humbled before you sir and have much to learn. my apologise again for any offence caused
    Tony
     
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  9. BhagatSingh

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    How does his answer follow this statement? Its just a name. This is where khalsa was created. Since khalsa kept hair long, the place is called Keshgarh.

    Have anything to back up this opinion?

    This was because the cutting of hair was part of the conversion.

    Is the "keeping " of kesh emphasized or is it something else?
    and I would like to see where.

    How do you know?

    Where does he condemn this?

    The Khalsa was a direct rebellion against the Mughals. Muslims when converting people would cut their hair as part of the conversion. So it is obvious that one of the first things for Guru Gobind Singh ji to put in his discipline is keeping the kes uncut i.e. not letting anyone cut it.

    Soulful_Sardarni ji and Tony ji,
    The kakkars hold no spiritual value because spirituality is in the mind not in uniforms, clothing, hair, etc.

    Page 650, Line 7
    ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਏਹਾ ਸਿਧਿ ਏਹਾ ਕਰਮਾਤਿ ॥੨॥
    नानक गुरमुखि हरि नामु मनि वसै एहा सिधि एहा करमाति ॥२॥
    Nānak gurmukẖ har nām man vasai ehā siḏẖ ehā karmāṯ. ||2||
    O Nanak, the Lord's Name abides in the mind of the Gurmukh; this is spirituality, and this is miraculous power. ||2||
    Guru Amar Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
     
  10. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Guru Piayare Tony Ji...

    Not at all....i am not offended - certain of it. I am just following what my guru Ji said....
    Guru nanak ji declares..Rois na keejeh..UTTAR deejeh.... dont be offended..Provide the ANSWERS !!.

    2. YES you are definitely RIGHT...IF we have a question...and PONDER over it....the right answer will come. So many "PONDER" PAUSES in the SGGS...each Shabad has a PONDER-PAUSE tuk....meaning Guru Ji provides the answers if we just pause for awhile and think.

    I have so many inquistive minds in my Gurbani and Punajbi language and Computer Classes..( inquisitive is not limited to physical age - some of the most inquistive are 80 year olds...and some 8 year olds...BUT ALL are LEARNERS...SIKHS..just like YOU and ME !!).

    In my worldy sojourn so far i have read the SGGS countless times...in Classes as well as sehaj paaths, akhand paaths etc etc...and so many "questions arise spontaneously" in my mind while doing the paath....and wehnever i do that..I PONDER...and Guru Ji soon enough provides the answers...

    So Happy querying...and Happy Pondering....this is FUN. ( Its ok to double check ones "answers"...thats why we have the SPN !!!):welcome:

    PS. BUT IF you dont see a "reply" from me.... to any questions....then take it that I find those questions as just a "BP" ( not polite language !!) and asked just for the sake of an argument/show off/provoke a response...I IGNORE those...not because i dont have the answers..but i dont want to waste my time with them. Chardeekalla Jio...:happy::welcome:
     
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  11. BhagatSingh

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    Tony ji, when looking at answers presented, it is always a good idea to look for the support behind the statements made in the answer. it is also a good idea to then weigh the that support i.e. how strong is it? If there is no support then its fair to ignore the answer altogether.
    If you find youself in a situation where you are accepting any information presented, then you may find yourself having confirmation bias. When one already agrees with the information presented , whether its true or not, then it becomes easier to accept it, even if there is no support behind it.
    So once again its a good idea to analyze what has been presented before jumping to conclusions. Of course, more questions arise when analyzing the information.

    Good luck
     
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  12. tony

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    Dear Bhagatsingh ji
    My post was only to apologise to Gyani ji, because id thought id offended him and did not want to further offend, it did not mean i agreed with his answer i just knew what the answer would be. I hold no spirituality towards any worldly item and most certainly dont think that by the wearing of them it would bring me any closer to God or salvation, Ive seen far to many who wear items in all religions believing that that is enough to gain access to heaven to follow suit. I believe that those who practice good to others are the true ones to learn from. After listening to others I normally listen to my conscience and then act accordingly, on that occassion I didnt and thought that id offended. My thanks go to you for your sound advice though and agree entirely with you that spirituality is in the mind not in uniforms.
    Tony
     
  13. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Guru Piayario Jio,
    Tony Ji..

    THATS the right attitude. Any SIKH worthy of his salt is an INDEPENDENT THINKER..not BLIND follower. There is no place for blind faith in Gurmatt.
    Guru Ji compels us to ask questions, seek answers, think objectively....AAKLEEN SAHIB SEVEAH....we must use our God given intellect to THINK.

    I always stress this aspect of Gurmatt in my students - anyone - young and old can stand up in class and ask me, shoot down my "proofs"....and we all discuss and everyone is free to accept his/her own heart decides. No one is under any duress to just accept my ideas just because I am master Ji....as I said earlier WE ARE ALL SIKHS...learners and among "learners" no one is at the stage of "finished learning"...."completed learning"....SIKHI and Gurmatt are LIFE long Learning..UN-LEARNING..and RE-LEARNING.

    Thanks again for the clarification. I dont reply to mails i find not worthy of my time.
    Yours definitley are.:welcome:
     
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  14. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    NO where in SGGS is it stressed ( nay not even mentioned) that EXTERNAL UNIFORM/maalas/cholas/ dastaars/tilaks/kirpans/karras etc etc ARE hallmarks of INNER SPIRITUALITY. Neither is it stated that the ABSENCE of these is a Hallmark of inner spirituality. That is why kabir has said...Making ones hair grow long...or making it shorter than short....contribute towards Inner Spirituality...Bhavehn lambeh kesh KAR..bhavehn gharrar mundaeh..the Operative word here is "KAR" meaning to MAKE LONG (through manual actions like not combing/braiding/tying up in knots..like what certain sadhus do jattan waleh sadhus) Again Kabir ji is blunt..Mann mundeah NAHIN..OH man YOU have NOT shaved your Mann of evil..BUT you have shaved your HEAD !! This means it is easier to shave the Head externally than shave the Mann of Evil..YET we have so many excitedly jumping up and saying..I SHAVE..therefore I am HOLY INSIDE !! Wheres the proof ??:welcome:
     
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  15. tony

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    1. Guru nanak ji began the Religion..set its Basic Parametres. Guru nanak Ji wore a Dastaar and had long beard. He condemned the un-natural practises of those earlier religious followers who cut hair/became bald/shaved/made their hair LONG artificially/knots etc due to not combing etc etc...[/quote]

    Dear Gyani ji I have thought long and hard, and have read many artcles on Guru Nanak ji's life but fail to find anything that states one must keep ones hair long. My understanding of what he says is that it is wrong to cut ones hair as an offering to God and believing that by doing so it will cleanse the soul, much the same as he condenmed any other ritualistic practises. and in refusing to cut his own hair was merely a way to show others that it was not needed to achieve spiritual attainment. Could it be that the Following Guru jis where following Nanaks jis example in refusing to cut there hair and that Guru Gobing Singh jis instruction to the newly founded Khalsa was a way of rebelling against the Mogul rulers of that time. Also that if your hair was cut that they would have seen it as a sign of convertion and acceptance of the Muslim faith. I value your answers and hope I do not offend you or anyone else with with my questioning.
     

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