Welcome to SPN

Register and Join the most happening forum of Sikh community & intellectuals from around the world.

Sign Up Now!

Faith Without Right Action is Dead

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by vsgrewal48895, Mar 23, 2009.

Tags:
  1. vsgrewal48895

    vsgrewal48895
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2009
    Messages:
    651
    Likes Received:
    662
    FAITH WITH OUT RIGHT ACTION IS DEAD

    ABSTRACT

    Every action is preceded by a thought and to do a right action one should have a right thought. It is important to train the all powerful mind to create a positive attitude to think that right thought till it becomes a second nature. Kabir says in Raag Gauri that through mind one speaks, acts, and comes to know the mystery about the Akal Purkh of the three worlds:

    ਮਨ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬੋਲੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਈ॥ਮਨ ਮਾਰੇ ਬਿਨੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ॥ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੋ ਜਾਨੈ ਭੇਉ॥ਮਨੁ ਮਧੁਸੂਦਨੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਦੇਉ॥

    Man anṯar bolai sabẖ ko¬ī, Man mārė bin bẖagaṯ na ho¬ī, Kaho Kabīr jo jānai bẖė¬o, Man maḏẖusūḏan ṯaribẖavaṇ ḏė¬o.

    Everyone speaks through the mind. Without killing the mind, devotional worship is not performed. Says Kabir, one who knows the secret of this mystery, beholds within his own mind the Akal Purkh of the three worlds. -----Kabir, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 329-2
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Spiritual growth occurs by following the principles of a faith in their totality with honesty. Sabd Guru advises the humanity to give up the empty rituals and follow their own faiths truthfully and rightly. First is the Word, which leads to thought, and thought to action, and repeated actions form habits, which in turn shape the evolvement of Character. The latter is the essence of Guru Nanak’s teachings in japji. In Siri Raag Guru Nanak says that as you sow and eventually so shall you reap?

    ਜੇਹਾ ਰਾਧੇ ਤੇਹਾ ਲੁਣੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਣ ਜਨਮੁ ਵਿਣਾਸੁ॥ਮੁੰਧੇ ਗੁਣ ਦਾਸੀ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ॥ਅਵਗਣ ਤਿਆਗਿ ਸਮਾਈਐ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਪੂਰਾ ਸੋਇ॥

    Jayhaa RaaDhay Tayhaa Lunai Bin Gun Janam Vinaas, MunDhay Gun Daasee Sukh Ho-ay, Avgan Ti-aag Samaa-ee-ai Gurmat Pooraa So-ay.

    As you plant, so shall you harvest? Without virtue, this human life passes away in vain. O young bride, be a slave to virtue, and you shall find peace. Renouncing wrongful actions, following the Guru's Teachings, you shall be absorbed into the Perfect One.-----Guru Nanak, Raag Siri, AGGS, Page, 56-13

    What is mind and what are thoughts? Without Consciousness, mind and thoughts do not exist. Therefore, we need to understand that ‘mind’ is a tool of Consciousness and depends for its existence on our experiences. Experiences are registered by Consciousness and without Consciousness we have no experiences. Mind forms thoughts and without them, mind cannot exist. Therefore we can say that mind and thoughts are the same since one without the other cannot function as Guru Nanak points out in Japji;

    ਤਿਥੈ ਘੜੀਐ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਮਤਿ ਮਨਿ ਬੁਧਿ ॥

    Ŧithai gẖaṛī¬ai suraṯ maṯ man buḏẖ.

    The intuitive consciousness, intellect and understanding of the mind are shaped there. -----Guru Nanak, Japji, AGGS, Page, 8-2

    If one enquires where a thought arises in the body in the first instance, it will be found that it is not in a physical part of the body, but from an Unknown part within Consciousness… a place that mystics call the Intelligence of the Heart. This is an intangible part of being. It accounts for the presence of ‘I.’ It is the Center of our mystical Heart that manifests in the world of duality as ‘I.’ It reflects the ego of materiality. Guru Nanak vouches for this in Raag Gauri;

    ਦੂਜੀ ਮਾਇਆ ਜਗਤ ਚਿਤ ਵਾਸੁ ॥

    Ḏūjī mā¬i¬ā jagaṯ cẖiṯ vās.

    The duality of Materialism dwells in the consciousness of the people of the world. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 223-2

    The first and foremost of all the thoughts that arise in the mind are the primal I-thought. That is, we remain as Witnesses of ‘I Am I’. After this primal I-thought, an innumerable other thoughts arise. Only after the first personal pronoun, ‘I’, has arisen, do the second and third personal pronouns (‘you, he,’ etc.) occur to the mind. These secondary thoughts cannot subsist without the former. ‘I’ continues to be the ‘Witness’ and the ‘Witness’ is pure and Absolute Consciousness. Guru Nanak ponders on it in Raag Ramkali:

    ਕਿਉ ਤਤੈ ਅਵਿਗਤੈ ਪਾਵੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਲਗੈ ਪਿਆਰੋ ॥ ਆਪੇ ਸੁਰਤਾ ਆਪੇ ਕਰਤਾ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਬੀਚਾਰੋ ॥

    Ki¬o ṯaṯai avigaṯai pāvai gurmukẖ lagai pi¬āro. Āpė surṯā āpė karṯā kaho Nānak bīcẖāro.

    How can one find the essence of the unmanifest reality? This comes through the guidance of the Master and devotional love. The Akal Purkh Itself is consciousness, and the Creator; says Nanak understand it. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 940-9

    Since all thoughts occur only after the rise of the ‘I Am’ thought and since the mind is nothing but a bundle of thoughts that forms the ego, it is only through the enquiry of ‘Who am I?’ that the mind settles down and begins to function properly. Automatically its attention turns towards Consciousness, the real Subject and Witness who is asking this crucial question. Guru Nanak explains in Raag Ramkali that it is here that the union with the “Akal Purkh” takes place through Its fear;

    ਭਉ ਭੁਇ ਪਵਿਤੁ ਪਾਣੀ ਸਤੁ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਬਲੇਦ ॥ ਹਲੁ ਹਲੇਮੀ ਹਾਲੀ ਚਿਤੁ ਚੇਤਾ ਵਤ੍ਰ ਵਖਤ ਸੰਜੋਗੁ ॥

    Bẖa¬o bẖu¬ė paviṯ pāṇī saṯ sanṯokẖ balėḏ. Hal halėmī hālī cẖiṯ cẖėṯā vaṯar vakẖaṯ sanjog.

    Make the Fear of God the farm, purity the water, truth and contentment the cows and bulls, humility the plow, consciousness the plowman, remembrance the preparation of the soil, and union with the Akal Purkh the sowing season. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 955-6

    The basic acknowledgment of the ‘I Am’ Presence focuses the mind and its thought process towards its own source, which is ‘I’ the uncreated and unknown source that can never manifest except as ‘I Am I’. When a seeker enquires and asks questions about his own real identity, searching within himself for the Presence of the ‘I’ - what happens is that automatically all other thoughts collapse and are destroyed or consumed. This is because his mental patterns and thought forms have changed his way of seeing and experiencing himself and the world. Also since the ego cannot recognize itself, it instead reflects on its own Source, which is the ‘I.’ thus one gets lost in it, as indicated by Guru Ramdas in Raag Asa;

    ਹਉਮੈ ਕਰਮ ਕਿਛੁ ਬਿਧਿ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੈ ॥

    Ha¬umai karam kicẖẖ biḏẖ nahī jāṇai.

    One, who acts in ego, knows nothing about the Way.-----Guru Ram Das, Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 367-13

    Can the shadow of an object lead and be responsible for the path that a man takes? Or the opposite is true -- it is the man that directs the shadow? Does the shadow follow the man? “Even when extraneous thoughts sprout up during such enquiry, one should not seek to complete the thoughts that arise. One should instead inquire deeply within oneself, and ask, “To whom has this thought occurred?” No matter how many thoughts occur, one should, with acute vigilance, enquire immediately as each individual thought arises. You may find that your answer is, “It is to ‘me’”. Then you follow up with the question, “Who am I?” At such questions the mind gets introverted. The flow of thoughts arising also subsides. In this manner as one perseveres more and more in the practice of Self-enquiry, the mind acquires increasing strength and power to abide in its Source. It then forgets the ego as explained by Guru Amardas in Raag Majh;

    ਅਨ ਰਸੁ ਚੂਕੈ ਹਰਿ ਰਸੁ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਏ ॥

    An ras cẖūkai har ras man vasā¬ė.

    Other essences are forgotten, when the Akal Purkh's Essence comes to dwell in the mind. -----Guru Amar Das, Raag Majh, AGGS, Page, 115-14

    The mind has no awareness of its own and does not even have intelligence. The mind can only think and doubt. It has beliefs, opinions, likes, dislikes but is not aware of anything. Awareness and true intelligence exist within the SELF. The inner consciousness is aware of what mind thinks. It is the intellectual or rational faculty in humans, which understands, conceives, and judges the entire spiritual nature in a state of harmony, balance, truth, and justice. This consciousness comprises the self itself.

    Over the centuries, people have asked, "Why does evil exist in this world? Why is there so much pain, so much wrong and so little right?" These questions are fundamental to the learning process through thought, action, habit, and finally evolvement of character, leading to spiritual growth. One should continually, ask about the steps needed for conquering ignorance of spirituality, is to make the right thinking a second nature. What then, is evil? Evil is the condition that exists when good does nothing and is not opposite of good. Evil also begins in the mind with a thought followed by actions that create an evil habit. Guru Amardas has puts it in perspective in Siri Raag;

    ਜੇ ਸਉ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਨੀਰੀਐ ਭੀ ਬਿਖੁ ਫਲੁ ਲਾਗੈ ਧਾਇ ॥

    Jay Sa-o Amrit Neeree-ai Bhee Bikh Fal Laagai Dhaa-ay.

    Even if the poisonous plant is watered with ambrosial nectar a hundred times, it will still bear poisonous fruit. -----Guru Amardas, Siri Raag, AGGS, Page, 65-15

    Good is the light of creative action following from a creative thought? Evil too depends on thought and action -- negative thought, negative attitude and negative action. When thoughts are bad there is no good, there is only evil.

    What is good?

    The Primary Good is good, pure and simple, not by virtue of connection with some thing else, because there is nothing else above it. All things are below It, and receive good from It. It is further more an agent, whose action is intellect (The Higher Self), life, and every thing in which there is life and intelligence. It should not be supposed that evil/bad is opposite to the Primary Good, because there is no intermediary between them. The Primary Good (God) has no opposite. Good either does not exist, or if it does exist, it has no opposite what so ever. But it is impossible for the Good not to exist, because it is the cause of causes. Kabir in Gauri Bawan Akhri writes on word ਹ (Haha);

    ਹਾਹਾ ਹੋਤ ਹੋਇ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਨਾ ॥ਜਬ ਹੀ ਹੋਇ ਤਬਹਿ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਾ ॥ਹੈ ਤਉ ਸਹੀ ਲਖੈ ਜਉ ਕੋਈ ॥ਤਬ ਓਹੀ ਉਹੁ ਏਹੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥

    Hāhā hoṯ ho¬ė nahī jānā, Jab hī ho¬ė ṯabeh man mānā, Hai ṯa¬o sahī lakẖai ja¬o ko¬ī, Ŧab ohī uho ėhu na ho¬ī.

    HAHA: God exists, but also is not known to exist. When Akal Purkh is known to exist, then the mind is pleased and appeased. Of course the God exists, if one could only understand It. Then, alone It exists, and not this mortal being.-----Kabir, Gauri Bawan Akhari, AGGS, Page, 342-16 & 17

    To fulfill the goal for which a human comes into this world, the only path is one of truth. So he must be guided by the right thoughts to take the right actions learned through the teachings of Sabd Guru as referred to, by Guru Arjan in Raag Gauri;

    ਸਚੁ ਵਾਪਾਰੁ ਕਰਹੁ ਵਾਪਾਰੀ ॥ਦਰਗਹ ਨਿਬਹੈ ਖੇਪ ਤੁਮਾਰੀ ॥

    Such Vapaar Karoh Vaapaaree, Dargah Nibhai Khayp Tumaaree.

    Deal in the true trade, O trader, and your merchandise shall be safe in the Court of the Akal Purkh. -----Raag Gauri sukhmani, Guru Arjan, AGGS, Page 293-6

    Right action through right thought is the key to all existence. Without thought there is no action, but stasis and the emptiness of nonexistence. Where there is thought there is action, there is life and creation. The most important thing to realize is that it is one’s thoughts through his actions that determine the outcome. Thoughts and actions of each individual are important. All the things that can be thought of will never be more than a dream, unless acted upon. To end evil, one must think and act. To cure disease, one must have it diagnosed it and follow the prescription. To end starvation, one must think and act. It does not matter what it is - if one wants change, he must think and act. One’s words and prayers are nothing compared to the power of a single action accomplished through right thought, as Guru Arjan explains in Raag Jaitsari;

    ਕਰਿ ਅਨਰਥ ਦਰਬੁ ਸੰਚਿਆ ਸੋ ਕਾਰਜਿ ਕੇਤੁ ॥ਜੈਸਾ ਬੀਜੈ ਸੋ ਲੁਣੈ ਕਰਮ ਇਹੁ ਖੇਤੁ ॥ਅਕਿਰਤਘਣਾ ਹਰਿ ਵਿਸਰਿਆ ਜੋਨੀ ਭਰਮੇਤੁ ॥

    Kar Anrath Darab Sanchi-aa So Kaaraj Kayt, Jaisaa Beejai So Lunai Karam Ih Khayt, Akirat-Ghanaa Har Visri-aa Jonee Bharmayt.

    Practicing exploitation, he gathers wealth, but what use will it be in the end? As one plant, so does he harvest; the body is the field of actions. The ungrateful wretches forget the Akal Purkh, and wander in reincarnation. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Var Jaitsari, AGGS, Page, 706-17

    It all begins with you. There are two kinds of thoughts and actions you can do - right and wrong. Right thought and action create and wrong thought and action destroy. The final stage of spiritual evolvement is when all your thoughts and actions are right.

    Each day, you have a chance to change the course of your life. The first step is to examine what it is that makes you the person you are. You are the sum of your thoughts and actions. What were the actions you took today? Were they all right actions? The first step is to realize what actions you are taking. Each time you act, mentally analyze what type of action that was. If it is a wrong action, admit it. Then say to you 'I will not do that type of action again.'

    Inside each of us is a small and independent form of thought process. It's called our conscience. It's the little voice that tells you when you have been bad, and when you have been good. This part of energy of consciousness could be called soul in layman’s term. All eternal laws of Mother Nature are energy oriented. There is a constant to and fro exchange of energy with a perfect accounting system in the Universe. The source of all creation is pure consciousness, which is our spiritual essence. When conscience begins to handle the job of determining right from wrong you feel more assured. Soon conscience can begin to govern all our functions. It will begin to automatically eliminate wrong thoughts, which lead to wrong actions, from even being generated. You, as a person, will begin to channel your energy towards right action. One can see the consequences of his actions with his inner vision. Each thought is also a form of energy traveling at individual frequency. As the spiritual growth occurs this leads one to the eternal powers of seeing without eyes, traveling without moving, and hearing without ears as described by Guru Angad in Vaar Majh;

    ਅਖੀ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਵੇਖਣਾ ਵਿਣੁ ਕੰਨਾ ਸੁਨਣਾ ॥ਪੈਰਾ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਚਲਣਾ ਵਿਣੁ ਹਥਾ ਕਰਣਾ ॥ਜੀਭੈ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਬੋਲਣਾ ਇਉ ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਣਾ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਪਛਾਣਿ ਕੈ ਤਉ ਖਸਮੈ ਮਿਲਣਾ ॥
    Akhee Baajhoh Vaykhna ViN Kanna SunNaa, Paira Baajhoh Chalnaa VinN Hatha KarNaa, Jeebhai Baajhoh BoalNa Eou Jeevat MarNa, Nanak Hukam PachaaN Kai Taou Khasmai MilNaa.

    To see without eyes; to hear without ears; to walk without feet; to work without hands; to speak without a tongue. In this way one can remain dead while yet alive .O Nanak, recognize the Akal Purkh's Command, and merge with your Husband and Master. -----Guru Angad, Raag Majh, AGGS, Page, 139-2

    This recognizing of wrong thought is only half of the process. The other half is to create the right thoughts where there were none before. You start by doing one good deed a day. You create the thought, recognize it as right thought, and then tell yourself to carry it out. After a while, you will begin to generate these right thoughts without a conscious effort. You will be projecting the right thoughts out to those around you and your right actions will be altering another being's behavior. Your actions will speak louder than any words you have ever spoken. Spontaneous right action is the right action at the right moment. Perception of Divinity through right thoughts leads in the right action making the Unmanifest to Manifest. Anything, we thus behold, come from the unknown and show us the right way. This is put in to perspective by Guru Nanak in Raag Sarang;

    ਘਾਲਿ ਖਾਇ ਕਿਛੁ ਹਥਹੁ ਦੇਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਰਾਹੁ ਪਛਾਣਹਿ ਸੇਇ ॥

    Ghaal Khaaey Kich Hathon Dayay, Nanak Raah PachaaNeh Sayay.

    He who toils and earns and then gives away some, has discovered the real way.-----Sarang Ki Vaar, Guru Nanak, AGGS, Page, 1245-19

    One should practice the law of Giving, before one can receive. The more you give, the more you will receive because you will keep the abundance of Universal energy circulating in your life. The gifts of caring, attention, affection, appreciation, and love are some of the most precious gifts you can give, and they do not cost you anything. This all originates in mind as Guru Angad says in Raag Asa;

    ਜੋ ਜੀਇ ਹੋਇ ਸੁ ਉਗਵੈ ਮੁਹ ਕਾ ਕਹਿਆ ਵਾਉ ॥ ਬੀਜੇ ਬਿਖੁ ਮੰਗੈ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਵੇਖਹੁ ਏਹੁ ਨਿਆਉ ॥

    Jo Jee-ay Ho-ay So Ugvai Muh Kaa Kahi-aa aa-o, Beejay Bikh Mangai Amrit Vaykhhu Ayhu Ni-aa-o.

    Whatever is in the mind comes forth; spoken words by themselves are just wind. He sows seeds of poison, and demands Ambrosial Nectar. Behold, what justice is this? -----Guru Angad Raag Asa, AGGS, Page 474-17

    It is not an easy task, to take only the right actions. There will be times when others will do wrong to you. You may do wrong in return to them, but the only one whom you have really wronged is yourself. These actions become part of you, they are you. Do right actions even to those who would do wrong to you as advised by Sabd Guru. Do well to others without thinking about anything you may get in return. Then you will find the source of all right thought. Then you will find the source of all life. You will have progressed spiritually by living in the Sabd as Guru Nanak stated it in Raag Parbhati;

    ਇਸੁ ਜਗ ਮਹਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਕਰਣੀ ਹੈ ਸਾਰੁ ॥ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਹੋਰੁ ਮੋਹੁ ਗੁਬਾਰੁ ॥ ਸਬਦੇ ਨਾਮੁ ਰਖੈ ਉਰਿ ਧਾਰਿ ॥ਸਬਦੇ ਗਤਿ ਮਤਿ ਮੋਖ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥ Iss Jug Meh Sabad Karnee Hai Saar, Bin Sabadai Hoar Moh Gubaar, “Sabadai Naam Rahai Ourdhaar, Sabdai Gat Mit Mokh Duaar.

    In this world, the practice of the Sabd is the most excellent occupation. Without the Sabd, everything else is the darkness of emotional attachment. Through the Sabd, the Naam is enshrined within the heart. Through the Sabd, one obtains clear understanding and the door of salvation. -----Guru Nanak, Raag Parbhatee Bibhas, AGGS, Page, 1342-10

    This is the journey through the ocean of life. Realize your thoughts and take control over them. Guide your thoughts toward right thought. When you know in your heart the difference between right and wrong, you will know what needs to be changed. And with this wisdom, all becomes obtainable through mind and thought processes. Guru Nanak expressed this thought in Sri Raag:

    ਮਤੁ ਜਾਣ ਸਹਿ ਗਲੀ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ਮਾਲ ਕੈ ਮਾਣੈ ਰੂਪ ਕੀ ਸੋਭਾ ਇਤੁ ਬਿਧੀ ਜਨਮੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ॥

    Mat JaaN Seh Gaalee Paa-eaa, Maal Kai Maanai Roop Kee Sobhaa It BiDhee Janam Gavaa-i-aa.

    Do not think that your Husband Akal Purkh can be obtained by mere words. You are wasting this life in the pride of wealth and the splendor of beauty. -----Siri Raag, Guru Nanak, AGGS, Page 24-2

    Conclusion:

    The ego wearing a social mask wants others to live in fear, so that it can control them through many ways. These can be religious robes or abstract principles. However, if one has an exquisite combination of acceptance of the moment, responsibility and defenselessness, one can experience life flowing with effortless ease. Such acceptance must be total and complete. But it is easier said than done. Acting on one’s faith is difficult. A faith even in the right direction, if not followed by action is dead. One cannot progress in spirituality without selfless service to humanity. Such service requires compassion in thought and right action as Guru Nanak says in Sri Raag:

    ਵਿਚਿ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਸੇਵ ਕਮਾਈਐ ॥ ਤਾ ਦਰਗਹ ਬੈਸਣੁ ਪਾਈਐ ॥

    Which Dunia Sayv Kamaa-eaai, Ta Dargah Baisson Paaee-ai.

    In the midst of this world, do service (Seva), and you shall be given a place of honor in the Court of the Akal Purkh. -----Guru Nanak, Siri Raag, AGGS, Page, 26-1

    Virinder S.Grewal
    Williamston,MI
     
    • Like Like x 5
  2. Loading...

    Similar Threads Forum Date
    USA Sikh org on clerk attack: 'Americans must be free to practice their faith without fear' Breaking News Sep 2, 2010
    DEVELOPMENT OF INTERFAITH DIALOGUE BY GURU NANAK Interfaith Dialogues Nov 30, 2016
    Interfaith Meet At Gaya -Concepts Discussed Interfaith Dialogues Nov 30, 2016
    Interfaith Meet At Gaya Interfaith Dialogues Nov 30, 2016
    Interfaith Religion In Sikhism Interfaith Dialogues Nov 30, 2016

  3. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2007
    Messages:
    4,578
    Likes Received:
    1,606
    Re: Faith with out right action is dead

    Grewal Ji,

    Allow me to post this shabad here.
    I hope there is some connection with this beautiful thread.
    Thank you.

    Page 1363, Line 14
    ਅਉਖਦ ਆਏ ਰਾਸਿ ਵਿਚਿ ਆਪਿ ਖਲੋਇਆ ॥
    अउखद आए रासि विचि आपि खलोइआ ॥
    A▫ukẖaḏ ā▫e rās vicẖ āp kẖalo▫i▫ā.
    The medicines are effective, when the Lord Himself stands in their midst.
    Guru Arjan Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
     
  4. vsgrewal48895

    vsgrewal48895
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2009
    Messages:
    651
    Likes Received:
    662
    Re: Faith with out right action is dead

    Please allow me to complete the Sabd; unfortunately individuals hardly talk about good deeds and morality;

    ਵੈਦਾ ਸੰਦਾ ਸੰਗੁ ਇਕਠਾ ਹੋਇਆ ਅਉਖਦ ਆਏ ਰਾਸਿ ਵਿਚਿ ਆਪਿ ਖਲੋਇਆ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਓਨਾ ਕਰਮ ਸੁਕਰਮ ਹੋਇ ਪਸਰਿਆ ਹਰਿਹਾਂ ਦੂਖ ਰੋਗ ਸਭਿ ਪਾਪ ਤਨ ਤੇ ਖਿਸਰਿਆ

    vaiā sanā sang ikṯẖā ho▫i▫ā. A▫uka ā▫e rās vic āp kalo▫i▫ā. Jo jo onā karam sukaram ho▫e pasri▫ā. Harihāʼn ūk rog sab pāp an e kisri▫ā.

    The physicians meet together in their assembly. The medicines are effective, when the Akal Purkh It self stands in their midst. Their good deeds and karma become apparent. O God! Pains, diseases and sins all vanish from their bodies.
    -----Guru Arjan, Chaubolay Sloke, AGGS, Page,1373-14

    Let me add one more s\Sabd of Guru Arjan in Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 274-14

    ਸਰਬ ਰੋਗ ਕਾ ਅਉਖਦੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਲਿਆਣ ਰੂਪ ਮੰਗਲ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਮ ਕਾਹੂ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਕਿਤੈ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਧਰਮਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਸੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਜਿਸੁ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਧੁਰਿ ਕਰਮਿ

    Sarab rog kā a▫uka nām. Kali▫ā rūp mangal gu gām. Kāhū juga kiai na pā▫ī▫ai ḏẖaram. Kāhū juga kiai na pā▫ī▫ai ḏẖaram. Nānak is milai jis liki▫ā ḏẖur karam.

    The Naam is the panacea, the remedy to cure all ills. Singing the Glory of God is the embodiment of bliss and emancipation. It cannot be obtained by any religious rituals.
    O Nanak, he alone obtains it, whose karma is so pre-ordained.

    A request is made to please put your name on the response so that the writer and the responder knows as to who is who. I could be contacted as under

    Cordially,

    virindergrewal@cablespeed.com
    517-992-9134
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
    Expand Collapse
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4,560
    Likes Received:
    6,989
    Re: Faith with out right action is dead

    Faith makes people blind.Sikhi is not about faith but based on 3 basic tenets:

    1. Naam Japnah- Understanding and using Gurbani as the tool box to construct a positive life that can make a difference.

    2. Kirat Karni- Using the tools from SGGS to have a work plan as a true student from the very young age. Studying hard and dilligentlyand honestly- no cheat sheets preparations- and as an older student of life, working in an honest manner to make a living.

    3. Vand kei Chaknah- Only Ik Ong Kaar gives. A Sikh has no capacity to do so. So by having reaped the fruits by sowing the seeds with the above two, a Sikh starts sharing with others. As a student at a school or in a college, helping others who need help like tutoring and other things and as a student of life, helping anyone who needs a hand in anyway or form, irrespective of their hue,creed of faith.

    That is why for me, Sikhi is neither a belief system nor a faith but a WAY OF LIFE.

    Tejwant Singh
     
    • Like Like x 4
  6. vsgrewal48895

    vsgrewal48895
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2009
    Messages:
    651
    Likes Received:
    662
    Teji Ji,

    I agree with your last sentence Way Of Life- Naam Dan Ishnan- will post on it.

    Virinder
     
  7. Saint Soldier

    Saint Soldier
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    13
    I still remember when i was a little cute naughty boy yes the time when i was a student of nursery i had a teacher mrs. C.R.Anson she was a very nice lady a catholic by religion she once told me "son never build castles on sand when the storm comes everything vanishes" i questioned her "miss what should i do then" and she replied "son build castle on hill top" today when i remember that talk i feel as if it was a moment ago i don't know if the lady lives today or not but her teaching lives.To build faith in religion is like building castle on sand the sand particles are our little beliefs and practices and when the storm comes everything is vanished everything on the other hand if you are practical you try things before building you beliefs it is building castle on hill top.............
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. vsgrewal48895

    vsgrewal48895
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2009
    Messages:
    651
    Likes Received:
    662
    Thanks.
    Virinder
     
  9. Saint Soldier

    Saint Soldier
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    13
    all of you must know why we must not have a Guru a prophet who so ever your Guru or prophet may be you will have to make your self enlightened for your self your prophet will not do that here is something--

    Drop your master.
    Yes! That’s right.
    This is the biggest lesson one can ever learn.
    It doesn’t matter how much your guru is wise or enlightened, his light is not going to help you to become enlightened. Guru is your ultimate safety but enlightenment is RUNNING FROM SAFETY.
    You are not enlightened as long as you are a follower and dependent. One is confused and following different gurus.
    It creates more confusion. Get clear.You are not going to understand a Buddha, because you are listening to him through YOUR conditioning, your past experiences, concepts and confusion. Clarity and order is Meditation. Do not bother what masters are telling; first look deep within the mess and chaos you have created. Look into the mind; watch it and you will find clarity of perception. That perception which is free from all prejudices and concepts is your real guru. Of course in the end you are NOT going to find out ENLIGHTENMENT!

    This is an extract from a madmans book THE TEN DIRTY SECRETS OF GETTING ENLIGHTNED.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. vsgrewal48895

    vsgrewal48895
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2009
    Messages:
    651
    Likes Received:
    662
    Dear Last Sikh Ji,

    How did you got from 1st grade till now with out a teacher? Please go and read my post on Self for answers.

    Here I have some meanings of Guru/teacher from Mahan Kosh and references from Sabd Guru for your perusal;

    GUR/GURU-ਗੁਰ/ਗੁਰੂ

    Mahan Kosh, Page, 415 and writes as you mentioned;

    1. Guru or Gur is from the word ਗੀ੍- ਧਾਤੁ meaning; (1) ਤਤ (2) ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਜੋ ਸਭ ਨੂੰ ਧਾਰਨ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ। ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖ (3) ਧਾਉਣਾ, ਦੌੜ (4) ਧਰਤੀ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਨਿਕਲਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਖਣਿਜ ਪਦਾਰਥ (ਨਿਰਣੈ,ਦਰਪਣ) ਭਾਵ ਜੀਵ ਆਤਮਾ (ਮਹਾਨਕੋਸ਼) (5) ਗੁਣ (ਮਹਾਨਕੋਸ਼), ਬੀਜ, ਮੂਲ (ਨਿਰਣੈ), ਅਸਲਾ (ਦਰਪਣ) (6) ਮਾਇਆ, ਧਾਉਣ ਵਾਲੀ, ਨਾਸ਼ਵੰਤ (7) ਭੱਜ ਕੇ ਦੂਰ ਜਾਣ/ਮਾਇਆ ਵਾਲਾ (8) ਰੁਚੀ,

    2. ਨਿਗਲਣਾ-To swallow, to gulp, to eat, to embezzle.

    3. ਸਮਝਾਉਣਾ- ਗ੍ਯਾਨ ਕਰਾਉਣਾ. ਸਮ੍ਯਕ ਬੋਧ ਕਰਾਉਣਾ.- To explain, to instruct, to cause to understand, to advise, to inculcate, to warn.

    4. To remove- Ignorance, lack of knowledge, lack of information.- ਗਿਆਨ-ਹੀਨਤਾ, ਬੇ-ਸਮਝੀ/ ਅਗਯਾਨ ।

    5. To teach- ਤਤੁਗਯਾਨ-Spiritual Wisdom- ਤਤ੍ਵਗ੍ਯਾਨ. ਸਾਰਗ੍ਯਾਨ. ਯਥਾਰਥਗ੍ਯਾਨ। (2) ਆਤਮਗ੍ਯਾਨ. ਬ੍ਰਹਮਗ੍ਯਾਨ.

    In short it means “SPIRITUAL TEACHER”

    ਭਾਈ ਰੇ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥

    Bẖā▫ī re gur bin gi▫ān na ho▫e.

    O Siblings of Destiny, without the Guru, there is no spiritual wisdom.-----Guru Nanak, Siri Raag, AGGS, Page, 59-7

    ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਬਿਖਿਆ ਦੂਜਾ ਸਾਦੁ ॥

    Gur bin gi▫ān na pā▫ī▫ai bikẖi▫ā ḏūjā sāḏ.

    Without the Guru, spiritual wisdom is not obtained; other tastes are poison.------Guru Nanak, Siri Raag, AGGS, Page, 61-17

    ਗਿਆਨ ਕਾ ਬਧਾ ਮਨੁ ਰਹੈ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥

    Gi▫ān kā baḏẖā man rahai gur bin gi▫ān na ho▫e.

    just so, the mind is restrained by spiritual wisdom, but without the Guru, there is no spiritual wisdom. ------Guru Nanak Raag Asa, AGGS, Page, 469-17

    ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਰਮ ਬਿਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ॥ਸਚ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਾਖੀ ਮੂਲੋ ਨ ਬਾਕੀ ॥

    Gur bin gi▫ān ḏẖaram bin ḏẖi▫ān. Sacẖ bin sākẖī mūlo na bākī.

    Without the Guru, there is no spiritual wisdom; without righteousness, there is no meditation. Without Truth, there is no credit; without capital, there is no balance.
    -----Guru Nanak, Sloke Vaaran To Vadheek, AGGS, Page, 1412-5

    ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਸਾਂਤਿ ਸਤਿ ਬੁਧਿ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਪਾਰਸ ਪਰਸ ਪਰਾ ॥

    Gurḏev sāʼnṯ saṯ buḏẖ mūraṯ gurḏev pāras paras parā.

    The Divine Guru is the image of peace, truth and wisdom. The Divine Guru is the Philosopher's Stone - touching it, one is transformed. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 262-3

    You have the right to have your own understanding and thanks for sharing.

    Cordially,
    Virinder
     
  11. Archived_Member4

    Archived_Member4
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2008
    Messages:
    635
    Likes Received:
    124
    Re: Faith with out right action is dead

    The state of the faithful cannot be described. One who tries to describe this shall regret the attempt. No paper, no pen, no scribe can record the state of the faithful. Such is the Name of the Immaculate Lord. Only one who has faith comes to know such a state of mind. || 12 || The faithful have intuitive awareness and intelligence. The faithful know about all worlds and realms. The faithful shall never be struck across the face. The faithfuldo not have to go with the Messenger of Death. Such is the Name of the Immaculate Lord. Only one who has faith comes to know such a state of mind. || 13 || The path of the faithful shall never be blocked. The faithful shall depart with honor and fame. The faithful do not follow empty religious rituals. The faithful are firmly bound to the Dharma. Such is the Name of the Immaculate Lord. Only one who has faith comes to know such a state of mind. || 14 || The faithful find the Door of Liberation. The faithful uplift and redeem their family and relations. The faithful are saved, and carried across with the Sikhs of the Guru. The faithful, O Nanak, do not wander around begging. Such is the Name of the Immaculate Lord. Only one who has faith comes to know such a state of mind. || 15 || ang 3


    Make contentment your ear-rings, humility your begging bowl, and meditation the ashes you apply to your body. Let the remembrance of death be the patched coat you wear, let the purity of virginity be your way in the world, and let faith in the Lord be your walking stick. See the brotherhood of all mankind as the highest order of Yogis; conquer your own mind, and conquer the world. I bow to Him, I humbly bow. The Primal One, the Pure Light, without beginning, without end. Throughout all the ages, He is One and the Same. || 28 || ang 6


    Let me be the blindest of the blind, for my eyes are blind with Guru jis guidance. I have attached myself to Guru ji's feet. If I could see then i would be mislead by the maya of the world, I thank the Lord for making me blind.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
    Expand Collapse
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4,560
    Likes Received:
    6,989
    Re: Faith with out right action is dead

    Singh ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    I am sorry to say that you are confused between faith as a belief system and having faith in Ik Ong Kaar and being faithful to Ik Ong Kaar's teachings.

    You are right about the latter two as mentioned in SGGS and quoted by you, but they have nothing to do with faith as a belief system which I mentioned in my post.

    Secondly, you are again confused when you say :

    "Let me be the blindest of the blind, for my eyes are blind with Guru jis guidance "

    Your quote is about having trust in Guru ji which I agree with but it has nothing to do with the blind faith as explained in my initial post.

    Tejwant Singh
     
  13. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    Faith Without Right Action is Dead

    ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
    ik oankaar sathigur prasaadh ||
    One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:



    ਆਪੈ ਆਪੁ ਖਾਇ ਹਉ ਮੇਟੈ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਰਸ ਗੀਤ ਗਵਈਆ ॥
    aapai aap khaae ho maettai anadhin har ras geeth gaveeaa ||
    One who eliminates his self-centeredness, and eradicates his ego, night and day sings the songs of the Lord's Love.



    ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪਰਚੈ ਕੰਚਨ ਕਾਇਆ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਮਿਲਈਆ ॥੧॥
    guramukh parachai kanchan kaaeiaa nirabho jothee joth mileeaa ||1||
    The Gurmukh is inspired, his body is golden, and his light merges into the Light of the Fearless Lord. ||1||


    ਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਧਾਰੁ ਰਮਈਆ ॥
    mai har har naam adhhaar rameeaa ||
    I take the Support of the Name of the Lord, Har, Har.


    ਖਿਨੁ ਪਲੁ ਰਹਿ ਨ ਸਕਉ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਠ ਪੜਈਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    khin pal rehi n sako bin naavai guramukh har har paath parreeaa ||1|| rehaao ||
    I cannot live, for a moment, even for an instant, without the Name of the Lord; the Gurmukh reads the Sermon of the Lord, Har, Har. ||1||Pause||


    ਏਕੁ ਗਿਰਹੁ ਦਸ ਦੁਆਰ ਹੈ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ ਤਸਕਰ ਪੰਚ ਚੋਰ ਲਗਈਆ ॥
    eaek girahu dhas dhuaar hai jaa kae ahinis thasakar panch chor lageeaa ||
    In the one house of the body, there are ten gates; night and day, the five thieves break in.



    ਧਰਮੁ ਅਰਥੁ ਸਭੁ ਹਿਰਿ ਲੇ ਜਾਵਹਿ ਮਨਮੁਖ ਅੰਧੁਲੇ ਖਬਰਿ ਨ ਪਈਆ ॥੨॥
    dhharam arathh sabh hir lae jaavehi manamukh andhhulae khabar n peeaa ||2||
    They steal the entire wealth of one's Dharmic faith, but the blind, self-willed manmukh does not know it. ||2||



    ਕੰਚਨ ਕੋਟੁ ਬਹੁ ਮਾਣਕਿ ਭਰਿਆ ਜਾਗੇ ਗਿਆਨ ਤਤਿ ਲਿਵ ਲਈਆ ॥
    kanchan kott bahu maanak bhariaa jaagae giaan thath liv leeaa ||
    The fortress of the body is overflowing with gold and jewels; when it is awakened by spiritual wisdom, one enshrines love for the essence of reality.



    ਤਸਕਰ ਹੇਰੂ ਆਇ ਲੁਕਾਨੇ ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਪਕੜਿ ਬੰਧਿ ਪਈਆ ॥੩॥
    thasakar haeroo aae lukaanae gur kai sabadh pakarr bandhh peeaa ||3||
    The thieves and robbers hide out in the body; through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, they are arrested and locked up. ||3||


    ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਪੋਤੁ ਬੋਹਿਥਾ ਖੇਵਟੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਿ ਲੰਘਈਆ ॥
    har har naam poth bohithhaa khaevatt sabadh gur paar langheeaa ||
    The Name of the Lord,Har,Har, is the boat, and the Word of the Guru's Shabad is the boatman, to carry us across.


    ਜਮੁ ਜਾਗਾਤੀ ਨੇੜਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨਾ ਕੋ ਤਸਕਰੁ ਚੋਰੁ ਲਗਈਆ ॥੪॥
    jam jaagaathee naerr n aavai naa ko thasakar chor lageeaa ||4||
    The Messenger of Death, the tax collector, does not even come close, and no thieves or robbers can plunder you. ||4||


    ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵੈ ਸਦਾ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ ਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਜਸੁ ਕਹਤੇ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਲਹੀਆ ॥
    har gun gaavai sadhaa dhin raathee mai har jas kehathae anth n leheeaa ||
    I continuously sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord,day and night; singing the Lord's Praises,I cannot find His limits.


    ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮਨੂਆ ਇਕਤੁ ਘਰਿ ਆਵੈ ਮਿਲਉ ਗ+ਪਾਲ ਨੀਸਾਨੁ ਬਜਈਆ ॥੫॥
    guramukh manooaa eikath ghar aavai milo guopaal neesaan bajeeaa ||5||
    The mind of the Gurmukh returns to its own home; it meets the Lord of the Universe, to the beat of the celestial drum. ||5||



    ਨੈਨੀ ਦੇਖਿ ਦਰਸੁ ਮਨੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਪਤੈ ਸ੍ਰਵਨ ਬਾਣੀ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਣਈਆ ॥
    nainee dhaekh dharas man thripathai sravan baanee gur sabadh suneeaa ||
    Gazing upon the Blessed Vision of His Darshan with my eyes, my mind is satisfied; with my ears, I listen to the Guru's Bani, and the Word of His Shabad.


    ਸੁਨਿ ਸੁਨਿ ਆਤਮ ਦੇਵ ਹੈ ਭੀਨੇ ਰਸਿ ਰਸਿ ਰਾਮ ਗੋਪਾਲ ਰਵਈਆ ॥੬॥
    sun sun aatham dhaev hai bheenae ras ras raam gopaal raveeaa ||6||
    Listening, listening, my soul is softened, delighted by His subtle essence, chanting the Name of the Lord of the Universe. ||6||


    ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹਿ ਵਿਆਪੇ ਤੁਰੀਆ ਗੁਣੁ ਹੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਲਹੀਆ ॥
    thrai gun maaeiaa mohi viaapae thureeaa gun hai guramukh leheeaa ||
    In the grip of the three qualities, they are engrossed in love and attachment to Maya; only as Gurmukh do they find the absolute quality, absorption in bliss.


    ਏਕ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਸਭ ਸਮ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਨਦਰੀ ਆਵੈ ਸਭੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪਸਰਈਆ ॥੭॥
    eaek dhrisatt sabh sam kar jaanai nadharee aavai sabh breham pasareeaa ||7||
    With a single, impartial eye, look upon all alike, and see God pervading all. ||7||


    ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਹੈ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਬਾਈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਆਪੇ ਅਲਖੁ ਲਖਈਆ ॥
    raam naam hai joth sabaaee guramukh aapae alakh lakheeaa ||
    The Light of the Lord's Name permeates all; the Gurmukh knows the unknowable.


    ਨਾਨਕ ਦੀਨ ਦਇਆਲ ਭਏ ਹੈ ਭਗਤਿ ਭਾਇ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਸਮਈਆ ॥੮॥੧॥੪॥
    naanak dheen dhaeiaal bheae hai bhagath bhaae har naam sameeaa ||8||1||4||
    O Nanak, the Lord has become merciful to the meek; through loving adoration, he merges in the Lord's Name. ||8||1||4||


    Ang 833, Guru Ram Das
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,188
    Sarab ROG ka AUKHAD Naam...
    The CURE of all "diseases" is NAAM.

    Now a days many have begun to stress on this TUK as proof that "Naam" cures all diseases.
    IF that were really so..there will be no diseases left.
    IMHO..the ROG...the Mother of all ROGS is..the exact thing that NAAM CURES.
    Why are we sad when disease strikes...when we get Cancer ?? Heart Disease..Stroke..??
    Because we are AFRAID...afraid to DIE !!!
    NAAM takes away the FEAR...FEAR of DEATH...that is the CURE. Of course we WILL DIE..of the Cancer..heart disease..liver problem...prostate enlargement whatever...or we will just DIE of old age..BUT we WILL DIE....and the :"disease" will TRIUMPH.
    BUT NAAM cured the FEAR..so we are no more afraid..That is the TRUE meaning of sarab Rog ka aukhad Naam. You will still have to continue taking your PILLS..the Blood transfusions..the Surgical operation..whatever to PROLONG LIFE....Naam will not replace those !! BUT NAAM will bring SERENITY..Calmness..PEACE...readyness to meet the Creator..Happiness...instead of the TERROR of the devil..the Jammdoots..the Hell fire and brimstone.... Naam KILLS all those FEARS.
    A friend of mine is suffering EXTRA...because a Mahapurash advised her to STOP going for Chemo Therapy for Braest cancer and instead just read sukhmani Sahib Daily five times..OF course the Cancer is rapidly growing..and shes in great pain...and shes faithfully reading sukhmani Sahib...even more than five times in five hours...and shes GOING TO DIE...any day soon...it would have been better to explain to her the REAL MEANING of sarab Rog ka aukhad Naam earlier...and continue the chemo treatment as well.:yes:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer sikhiart.com

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2006
    Messages:
    2,912
    Likes Received:
    1,640
    naam (meditation) as well and vand chakna (sharing), honest living, volunteering, will prevent many mental disorders like depression, and such, just because they keep your thoughts and brain healthy.
    I believe SGGS referring to this disease. Since naam comes from your mind not heart, it will only cure diseases relating to mind.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. Archived_Member4

    Archived_Member4
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2008
    Messages:
    635
    Likes Received:
    124
    Re: Faith with out right action is dead

    Tejwant ji
    I say, there isn't confusen. As 'blind' faith is the initial position for a Sikh and then for the time to come. You have put your trust in Guru Sahib and are blind with Guru Sahibs guidance. Without faith the 'I' ego still exist. The 'I' doesn't allow the faith in for 'I'' says I am the doer and/or know better. Once a person has faith it allows him/her to become faithful to the Lord by following Guru Sahibs teachings; putting complete faith in Guru Sahib.

    And do explain how I got it confused.

    As you said Sikhi is not about faith. And these shabads say it is about faith. 'let faith in the Lord be your walking stick', This line clear says put your complete faith in the Lord. As these shabds were a direct response to your first sentence in the post that got me writing on this. The part where you speak about you at the end of the post has nothing to do with what i responded too. I am responding to where you said Sikhi is not about faith.

    Pilgrimages, austere discipline, compassion and charity these, by themselves, bring only an iota of merit. Listening and believing with love and humility in your mind, cleanse yourself with the Name, at the sacred shrine deep within. All virtues are Yours, Lord, I have none at all. Ang 4

    Now this above line says to have faith aswell. The interesting thing about this line in bold is Guru Sahib adds humility there. Now ponder over why Guru Sahib said humility. Humility is the opposite of EGO.

    To have trust in Guru Sahib it requires Faith. As I explained above a person goes in with 'Blind' Faith. Also Faith does not make a person blind. Having no faith makes a person blind because the ego is in control now and the person does as the mind sees fit.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Archived_Member4

    Archived_Member4
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2008
    Messages:
    635
    Likes Received:
    124
    Gyani ji, to a extent I agree with you that meds should be taken when your sick. But because of a personal experience I would have to disagree aswell. What would you say to the person, where no meds could cure the pain? I was in this position and the only thing that got me through it was faith. As the faith grow stronger the pain disappeared. I did Simran as much as I could, listened to paath did paath and kept doing everything regularly as I would any other day and the pain went away. Would I say this is a miracle! NO WAY It was the best medicine of all Naam. It was completely surrendering to his will and his doing. I did not desire for the pain to go away, but asked for his Naam. The pain wasn't the problem, but the lack of faith in the Lord. It just took the pain to understand complete acceptance is required.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. kiram

    kiram
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    338
    "It was the best medicine of all Naam. It was completely surrendering to his will and his doing. I did not desire for the pain to go away, but asked for his Naam. The pain wasn't the problem, but the lack of faith in the Lord. It just took the pain to understand complete acceptance is required." - Singh ji

    Veerji, that was beautiful !!:wah:
     
  19. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,188
    Singh Ji..the pain went away..because you shifted attention away from it and into Naam..
    I have experienced it many times. Either one can take an aspirin...and it will deaden the "physical nerves" radiating the pain..or one can go into Naam simran. Normally i prefer the Naam simran whenever i get a headache..and it goes away soon after.
    A small child who si yelling ****** murder due to small cut on hsi finger..can be soon quietedend down..by diverting his attention by some ice cream..or toy...neat "trick" and once he forgets..the pain goes away...and it will return..once the ice cream is finished...
    THIS is primarily because as Bhagat Ji says..the PAIN IS IN THE MIND....and mind can be controlled/diverted...blocked even.
    But my concern is misusing the Naam simran to convince people that their CANCER will disappear...no need to go to hospital etc. Naam is for the MIND..not sreerak Rogs as Gurbani tells us..Dukh Sukh are bodily functions..one day sukh..next day dukh..they come and go as per His HUKM..LIVE with them.

    2. GURU HAR RAI JI was a RENOWNED PHYSCIAN..VAID. He maintained a Large DISPENSARY ( DWA KHANNA of traditional Herbs, medicines etc. His medicine saved the life of Dara, the mughal Prince son of Aurengzeb. Now no one can reach GURU JIs position vis a vis NAAM SIMRAN...but Guru Ji used PHYSICAL MEDICINE..for the PHYSICAL ROG. period. It just has to be that way...or no one will get sick and die.

    3. GURU Harkrishan Ji passed away after CONTRACTING SMALL POX while he was helping the sick during an apidemic in Delhi. Small Pox is a Physical Disease and often FATAL..as was the case with Guru Ji.

    Cheers and keep in Chardeekalla..one cannot have enough of Naam simaran !!!:welcome::yes:
     
    • Like Like x 3
  20. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
    Expand Collapse
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4,560
    Likes Received:
    6,989
    Re: Faith with out right action is dead

    Singh ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    You write:

    .

    Can you explain the difference between'blind' faith and " blindfaith", the term I used? Can you quote SGGS to elaborate the difference?

    Are you using Faith as Trust or as a religion? I used Faith as a religion and also " Blind faith" as a dogmatic religion.

    Once again you are confused. I do not think you read my post properly. What I said was that Sikhi is not about faith as a religion. I think, If I am not mistaken, as mentioned above you are confusing yourself between FAITH as a religion and having FAITH in our GURUS.

    Allow me to repeat what I said in my post:

    "I am sorry to say that you are confused between faith as a belief system and having faith in Ik Ong Kaar and being faithful to Ik Ong Kaar's teachings. "

    I agreed with you about having faith in Ik Ong Kaar and being faithful to Ik Ong Kaar's teachings which were bestowed to us from our Gurus?

    Below is my agreement with you.

    "You are right about the latter two as mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and quoted by you, but they have nothing to do with faith as a belief system which I mentioned in my post."

    So I do not understand why this confusion!


    I would request you one thing. Please do not copy and paste literal translations from the internet because they are misleading at times. If you know Gurmukhi which it seems you do then read Prof. Sahib Singh ji's explaination in Gurmukhi and put in your own words in Englush so we can be on the same page,so to speak. No pun intended. I look forward to reading the interpretation in your own words of the above Shabad. However,once again, I agree with what you have highlighted above.



    What does humility have to do with what we are talking about? Humility is the tool that Gurbani gives us like many others. But, this tool like others can only be obtained when we have trust- faith in our Gurus. This 'faith' has nothing to do with faith as a religion, the point of my initial post.



    Faith as a religion or faith in Gurbani? I talked about faith as a religion. The latter part I did agree with you. Please learn to make the distinction.

    Once again, FAITH as what or FAITH in what and whom? The answer to the former is faith as a religion and the answer to the latter two is faith in Gurbani and in our Gurus.

    So which FAITH are you talking about? Please elaborate. I only believe in the faith in the latter two as explained before.

    I will wait for your response where you can distinguish between 'blind' faith and " blindfaith" the term I used as a dogmatic religion, as mentioned above.

    Tejwant Singh
     
  21. vsgrewal48895

    vsgrewal48895
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2009
    Messages:
    651
    Likes Received:
    662
    Dear All,

    IMHO Sikh faith is no religion but a set of principles to live a way of truthful life as a householder as described by Guru Nanak;

    ਗਿਆਨ ਵਿਹੂਣਾ ਗਾਵੈ ਗੀਤ ॥ ਭੁਖੇ ਮੁਲਾਂ ਘਰੇ ਮਸੀਤਿ ॥ ਮਖਟੂ ਹੋਇ ਕੈ ਕੰਨ ਪੜਾਏ ॥ ਫਕਰੁ ਕਰੇ ਹੋਰੁ ਜਾਤਿ ਗਵਾਏ ॥ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੀਰੁ ਸਦਾਏ ਮੰਗਣ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਤਾ ਕੈ ਮੂਲਿ ਨ ਲਗੀਐ ਪਾਇ ॥ ਘਾਲਿ ਖਾਇ ਕਿਛੁ ਹਥਹੁ ਦੇਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਰਾਹੁ ਪਛਾਣਹਿ ਸੇਇ ॥

    Gi▫ān vihūṇā gāvai gīṯ. Bẖukẖe mulāʼn gẖare masīṯ. Makẖtū ho▫e kai kann paṛā▫e. Fakar kare hor jāṯ gavā▫e. Gur pīr saḏā▫e mangaṇ jā▫e. Ŧā kai mūl na lagī▫ai pā▫e. Gẖāl kẖā▫e kicẖẖ hathahu ḏe▫e. Nānak rāhu pacẖẖāṇėh se▫e.

    The one who lacks spiritual wisdom sings religious songs. The hungry Mullah turns his home into a mosque. The lazy unemployed have his ears pierced to look like a Yogi. Someone else becomes a pan-handler, and loses his social status. One who calls himself a guru or a spiritual teacher, while he goes around begging- don't ever touch his feet. One who works honestly for what he eats, and gives some of what he has- O Nanak, he knows the Path.
    -----Guru Nanak, Raag Sarang, AGGS, Page, 1245
    Virinder
     

Share This Page