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Evolution Deceit

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by muslim, Jul 25, 2005.

  1. muslim

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  3. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Its the same stuff as before.

    jarnail singh gyani
     
  4. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Theres a photograph of a six year old boy in Cambodia with a 15 CM tail and it is growing ...

    Proof that we have ape ancestors !! ?? how come ??
     
  5. CaramelChocolate

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    Evolution can be seen in today's society, people are even gettin six fingers and toes today... I think in the future this is something we will all have as well...
     
  6. S|kH

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    Actually, Scientists predict the opposite for toes.
    The pinky toe gets smaller as generations go on, and is supposedly going to disappear all together eventually.

    If I remember correctly that is...
     
  7. CaramelChocolate

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    Ah ok, didn't know that, just reverse what I said then ::cool:2:
     
  8. drkhalsa

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    Dear brithers

    You are right it is being thought over that next step in evolution could even smaller smal toe but we should be awrae that this kind evolutionary change takes time in term of thousands of year and not jsut year so for scientist physical evolution of man is not the issue but still scientist think that cultural evolution is the thing we would be looking in our life time
    well from embrology piont of view the very interesting thing and the thing that support theory of evolution is that embryo while in mothers womb undergo all the changes of evolutionary past and then develop into human embryo and having a tail liek this child is jsut taken as defect in that process in medical terms and infact this is not uncommon other similar interesting things could be voluntary movement of human ears ( just like animals ) actually humans have muscles in ear structure but are not functional but in some case they are functional and in that case one can move his ears just like animals

    well similar other thing could be multiple mammary nipples on the trunk just like canines ( dogs )
    well there are many other examples but i think i would be too much :)

    being said all this still my personal view is that this theory has many flaws but still the best explanation of all these things

    Jatinder Singh
     
  9. Lee

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    I guess that all depends on how you think evolution works as far as I know modern thinking stipulates that evolution can happen very quickly as a reaction against sudden and deadly climate change, or over a long period of relative calm.

    Although the World is always changing, evolution works to enable the enhabitants to cope with the changes. I'm not sure what advantage evolving a smaller toe would give us, and I'm pretty sure the boy with a tail has a genetic abnormality, unless of course one of his parents, or grand parents, or great grand parents, have a similar thing going on.

    Cheers,

    lee.
     
  10. rosethorne

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    WJKK
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    Satsri Akal to everybody on Spn. Dear Mr. Lee has said very correctly, that is surely a genetic disorder. Everything is under GOD'S control but some kind of bad deeds or Curse like things, when a person behave so bluntaly to a kind or innocent person then the person suffering from his remarks just speaking to GOD to save him/her from the other, Made the curse. which is very difficult to revert. Soul of a suffering person, gone closer to WAHEGURU. That is evolution. Evolution is for science research but for Gursikh it is a curse. Guru has warn us several times in Sri Guru Granth Saheb. Bani of GURU is to save from all the sins.
    So do right and get right.


    gauVI mhlw 5 ] krY duhkrm idKwvY horu ]
    rwm kI drgh bwDw coru ]1] rwmu rmY soeI rwmwxw ] jil Qil mhIAil eyku smwxw ]1]
    rhwau ] AMqir ibKu muiK AMimRqu suxwvY ] jm puir bwDw cotw KwvY ]2] Aink pVdy mih
    kmwvY ivkwr ] iKn mih pRgt hoih sMswr ]3] AMqir swic nwim ris rwqw ] nwnk iqsu
    ikrpwlu ibDwqw ]4]71]140] pNnw 194
     
  11. thecoopes

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    The debate on evolution in respect to being fact or fiction has divided people into the two camps of believers and non-believers with a proportion of fence wobblers.

    However I have found that most people do not fully understand either what they believe or disbelieve vis-à-vis evolution.

    The religious non-believers get offended and close their ears and eyes feeling that any who talk of evolution are heretics, and the believers are just as dogmatic in their contempt for those who take the view of disbelief.

    There can be little doubt that evidence exists that life forms have adapted to suit a changing environment, also as with the picture of the boy and tail, some evolutionists see this as proof that mutation’s or gene blips are evidence that change can occur.

    For what it’s worth I have come to modify my total disbelief in evolution to one that allows for a creator that built into his creation the flexibility to adapt to a changing environment. I find though, that belief in a primeval soup that through some unknown force develops simple life forms and then these go onto evolving into complex structures is just a credibility gap that cannot be spanned, even with large measures of faith!

    Evolution is a word that attempts to simplify peoples thinking into answering the complex with unsubstantiated faith.

    However a complex flexible creation that has wonders of genetic potential laying dormant just waiting for the right signal to activate, is another example of an omniscient Creators handiwork. :wah:
     
  12. rosethorne

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    Dear mr. The Coopes Said,
    [The religious non-believers get offended and close their ears and eyes feeling that any who talk of evolution are heretics].

    I think What Mr. The cooper said is true without any argue. The religious persons know that the any thing which is visible with eyes or any other mean of seeing or ears to hear, that is clearly defined by Dhan Guru Granth Saheb JI Maharaj, The words in which he described the Meaning are
    Anwhd nwd , Anwhd bwxI !
    Because WAHEGURU cannot be seen with Eyes. Evolution or any thing or any living thing Is a creation of WAHEGURU. A GURSIKH need not to open his eyes or ears to listen or to see WAHEGURU. You and the most of community don't even know about WAHEGURU. Spiritualy only we can feel WAHEGURU. Kaaynaat Means Nature which encludes Every thing is creation of WAHEGURU. There is no question Of being offended or Thinking of Heretics. Mr. The Coopes Has shown that he is living with 5 Chors. First thing to live with Gursikhi Is Namrata, Understand the truth and follow the path.
    nw ko bYrI nwhI bygwnw! sgl sMig hmko bin AweI !

     
  13. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Actually GURBANI by itself wont accomplish anything.

    It is a RECIPE for a SUCCESSFUL "LIFE" ( not just life on thsi earth but also Muktee life for ever. )

    A RECIPE by itself will NOT bake you a cake !! No way.

    A Good cook/baker reads the recipe carefully, makes sure all the ingredients listed are there in the correct measures/weights. Then he will read through the recipe carefully..FOLLOW each instruction EXACTLY...no leeway..or guess work... and only then will his cake turn out PERFECT.

    Similarly GURBANI...."spiritual experiences" of many..Bhagats, Sheikhs, Bards, Singers, poets, GURU SAHIBS...are an attempt to let us KNOW what can happen if we FOLLOW GURBANI...to the letter and spirit.

    Just ritually "matha teking" to Gurbani, keeping it wrapped up in the best most expensive Korean Silk Rumallas, under Golden canopies, or "reciting" it mechanically jsut for the sake of it/nitnem/ritualised reading like akhand paath etc WONT accomplish a tiny bit.

    Gurbani says.. thaal wich teen vastu piyeo...Sat santokh vicharo...JE KO KHAVVEH...JE KO BHUNCHHEH..TIS ka HOI UDHARO.... This spiritual FOOD has to be EATEN/CHEWED/SWALLOED...and DIGESTED..then and then only will its EFFECT take place on our Spirit...Just merely "looking" at the food wont make our HUNGER go away ( darshan).."eating/chewing"..BUT NOT SWALLOING..is not OK either...( reading Gurbani nitnem without following its instructions)..BUT if SWALLOED and DIGESTED..then its STRENGTH is useful for our mann/body.

    Jarnail singh
     
  14. rosethorne

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    Dear Sant Jarnail SinghJi has said very correctely. But the idea of cooking anything with the whole knowledge of recipe is very far from the fact to know about GURU GRANTH SAHEB JI fully. May be Sant Jarnail SinghJi having the knowledge of whole GURU GRANTH SAHEB, But in my view we, means we all, are not capable to get the full view of GURU SAHEB in a single life. If we are relating GOD with any Materialistic thing then we very heaviely mistaken. Guru Granth Saheb Is not a material at all. It is in every Gursikh's Heart and soul. It is not a recipe at all because anter Guru is capable enough to bake our soul.

    isrIrwgu mhlw 1 Gru 4 ] eykw suriq jyqy hY jIA ] suriq ivhUxw koie n kIA ]
    jyhI suriq qyhw iqn rwhu ] lyKw ieko Awvhu jwhu ]1] kwhy jIA krih cqurweI ] lyvY dyvY iFl n
    pweI ]1] rhwau ] qyry jIA jIAw kw qoih ] ikq kau swihb Awvih roih ] jy qU swihb Awvih roih ]
    qU Enw kw qyry Eih ]2] AsI bolivgwV ivgwVh bol ] qU ndrI AMdir qolih qol ] jh
    krxI qh pUrI miq ] krxI bwJhu Gty Git ]3] pRxviq nwnk igAwnI kYsw hoie ] Awpu
    pCwxY bUJY soie ] gur prswid kry bIcwru ] so igAwnI drgh prvwxu ]4]30]
    pNnw 24




     
  15. jagmeet

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    I haven't read this thread very carefully,but if anyone here believes that there's anything against/(in contradiction with) evolution in our religion then he/she's mistaken.Nowhere is it claimed that the world was created in a day, or one fine day.I think there are lines to indicate that it has been a process--lines which mention 'sunn' in the early history of universe(may be one of you can confirm this).

    Bhul chuk maaf,
    Jagmeet
     
  16. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    This is from GURU GRANTH JI SAHIB... Guru nanak Ji sahib describes EXACTLY what SCIENTISTS are "guessing" about based on their evidence...

    AArbadd is TEN KRORR YEARS...and the Next Word is N-AARbadd 10 Krorr to the power of n...an INFINITE NUMBER !! This is GURU NANAK Ji writing 500 years ago....long long before any Scientist or Mathmeatician was using such HUGE numbers ( SURPRISED ?? You bet !!!)

    Guru Ji says..Aarbadd narbadd..Tens of Thousands of Billiosn Trillions of JUGGS ago... it was Complketely DARK and SILENT... Akal Purakh ws sitting in SAMADHI...presiding over this scene.. there was NO " earth" and NO "sky"..NO suns and NO moons..NO day and NO night..all was SILENCE and in SAMADHII...Then in an INSTANT ( too short to describe)..( the BIG BANG !! maybe ??) the CREATION BEGAN... galaxies and Universes...began to form....

    NO other Religious book contains such EXPLICIT and EXACT terminology that we dont need to "stretch" the meanings or use "metaphorical expressions" etc to make the GURBANI agree with modern science... IN FACT GURBANI tells us mUCH More than Science ever could.and 500 years in ADVANCE..

    Page 1035
    mwrU mhlw 1 ] Arbd nrbd DuMDUkwrw ] Drix n ggnw hukmu Apwrw ] nw idnu rYin n cMdu n sUrju suMn smwiD lgwiedw ]1] KwxI n bwxI paux n pwxI ] Epiq Kpiq n Awvx jwxI ] KMf pqwl spq nhI swgr ndI n nIru vhwiedw ]2] nw qid surgu mCu pieAwlw ] dojku iBsqu nhI KY kwlw ] nrku surgu nhI jMmxu mrxw nw ko Awie n jwiedw ]3] bRhmw ibsnu mhysu n koeI ] Avru n dIsY eyko soeI ] nwir purKu nhI jwiq n jnmw nw ko duKu suKu pwiedw ]4] nw qid jqI sqI bnvwsI ] nw qid isD swiDk suKvwsI ] jogI jMgm ByKu n koeI nw ko nwQu khwiedw ]5] jp qp sMjm nw bRq pUjw ] nw ko AwiK vKwxY dUjw ] Awpy Awip aupwie ivgsY Awpy kImiq pwiedw ]6] nw suic sMjmu qulsI mwlw ] gopI kwnu n gaU guoAwlw ] qMqu mMqu pwKMfu n koeI nw ko vMsu vjwiedw ]7] krm Drm nhI mwieAw mwKI ] jwiq jnmu nhI dIsY AwKI ] mmqw jwlu kwlu nhI mwQY nw ko iksY iDAwiedw ]8] inMdu ibMdu nhI jIau n ijMdo ] nw qid gorKu nw mwiCMdo ] nw qid igAwnu iDAwnu kul Epiq nw ko gxq gxwiedw ]9] vrn ByK nhI bRhmx KqRI ] dyau n dyhurw gaU gwieqRI ] hom jg nhI qIriQ nwvxu nw ko pUjw lwiedw ]10] nw ko mulw nw ko kwjI ] nw ko syKu mswieku hwjI ] reIAiq rwau n haumY dunIAw nw ko khxu khwiedw ]11] Bwau n BgqI nw isv skqI ] swjnu mIqu ibMdu nhI rkqI ] Awpy swhu Awpy vxjwrw swcy eyho Bwiedw ]12] byd kqyb n isMimRiq swsq ] pwT purwx audY nhI Awsq ] khqw bkqw Awip Agocru Awpy AlKu lKwiedw ]13] jw iqsu Bwxw qw jgqu aupwieAw ] bwJu klw Awfwxu rhwieAw ] bRhmw ibsnu mhysu aupwey mwieAw mohu vDwiedw ]14] ivrly kau guir sbdu suxwieAw ] kir kir dyKY hukmu sbwieAw ] KMf bRhmMf pwqwl ArMBy gupqhu prgtI Awiedw ]15] qw kw AMqu n jwxY koeI ] pUry gur qy soJI hoeI ] nwnk swic rqy ibsmwdI ibsm Bey gux gwiedw ]16]3]15] {pMnw 1035-1036}


     
  17. jagmeet

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    Gyani ji,thanks for your reply.Let me just add the following:-I looked up the meaning of 'Narbad' in Darpan--it says 'Not Arbad' and interprets this to mean infinite.

    Are there lines which indicate how the universe or earth evolved over the years?
     
  18. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Dear Jagmeet Ji,
    Waheguur ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh.

    Yes you are right. I was intrigued by the astonishing similarity of the "N" alphabet to show INFINITY. Modern day it is written as 10-n..meaning 10 followed by INFINITE ZEROES....exactly the same as GURU Ji says N-Arbad.."N" meaning infinite number of ZEROES on Arbad (10)

    Here is the English Translation of this shabad. It is from the Manmohan Singh Teeka - 8 vol set published by sgpc.

    For countless ages, there was utter darkness.
    there was no earth and no sky, but the Infinite Lord’s will alone was pervasive.
    Neither there were mines of creation, nor speech, nor air nor water.
    Neither creation, nor destruction nor coming, nor going.
    There were no continents, nor under worlds nor seven ocean, nor rivers nor the flowing of water. Then there was no higher middle and lower plane. Neither thee was hell, nor heaven, nor death, nor time.
    There was no world of tortures or region of bliss, no birth or death, nor did any one come or go. There was no Brahma nor Vishnu or Shiva.
    None else was seen but He, the One lord. Neither there was female, nor male, nor caste, nor birth nor did any one suffer pain or pleasure. Then there was neither the celibate nor the man of charity, nor the forest-dweller. Then there was no adept, no striver, no dweller at ease. There was no Yogi, wandering sage and the religious garb and none called himself the supreme Yogi. There was no contemplation, penance, self-control, fasting and worship, There was no contemplation, penance, self-control, fasting and worship, Creating His own self the Lord was supremely rejoiced and Himself valued His own self. There was no purification, or self restraint, or rosary of sweet basil. There was no Milk -maid, or Krishan, or cow or herdsman. There were no incantations and spells, no hypocrisy, nor did any one play on the flute. There were no deeds, religion and the gadfly of mammon. Caste and birth were not to be seen with eyes. There was no noose of secular attachment, nor was earth writ on the mortal’s brow, nor did any one meditate on aught else. Then there was no Gorakh nor Machhinder. Then there was no Divine knowledge, meditation, lineage and creation, nor there was reckoning of accounts.
    There was no caste,or religious grab, or Brahman or Kharti, Neither there was demigod, nor temple, nor cow nor the Hindu’s primal, spell, There used to be no burnt offerings ; nor gratuitous feasts, nor ablutions at holies and nor did any one perform worship. There was no Muslim scholar or judge. There was no muslim preacher, nor a penitent nor Macca-pilgrim. There was no subject, king and worldly pride, nor idd any one give himslf a big Name. There was no love or devotion nor mind or matter. There used to be no Friend, intimatcy, seed and blood. There Lord Himself was the Banker and himself the Merchant, Such was the will of the True Lord. There existed no Vedas nor Muslim book, nor Simirtis and nor Shashtras. There was no reading of Puranas, nor sun-rise, nor sun-set. The Incomprehensible. Lord was Himself the speaker and Preacher.The Unseeable Lord Himself saw everything. When he so willed, then created He the world and without support sustained the firmament. He created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva and extended the love of mammon. Rare is the person whom the Guru cause to hear the Lord’s word, By His will, the Lord has created the creation and watches over all. He founded the continents solar systems and under worlds and from the absolute self, He became manifest. His limit no one knows. It is through the Perfect Guru, that I have obtained Understanding. Nanak, wondrous are they, who are imbued with the Lord’s truth and hymning His praise they became delighted. Creating the world, all by Himself remains detached. The Merciful Master has established His True abode. Binding together air, water and fire, He has created the body fortress.

    Jarnail singh
     
  19. Sikh N Sleek

    Sikh N Sleek
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    I predict in the far distant future the human race will more or less look the same all bald, greyish in colour , small in frame and structure with big black eyes and big heads to accomidate the bigger sized brains.

    Thats just my theory ... lol
     
  20. jagmeet

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    Waheguru ji ka khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh.

    What I meant was:- 'Narbad' literally means 'Not Arbad'--so let's leave it at that.Instead of 'interpreting' it as infinite,one could also 'interpret' it to mean some 'unspecified big number'.The current estimates of the age of the universe are 13-14 billion years.I don't think this is a final estimate,but whatever be the actual number,it would be in tune with the latter interpretation.

    Bhul chuk maaf,
    Jagmeet
     
  21. thecoopes

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    No I think you may be wrong, here is the new staff preparing for the next shift at Gate Gourmet.
     

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