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Eternity of The Soul

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by abba, Sep 8, 2010.

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  1. abba

    abba
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    Question about the ultimate goal of man:

    Does the soul "become God" and cease to be other than God OR does the soul become "one" with God while at the same time remaining other than God (a paradox to our human minds, being one and other at the same time)?

    If we "become God" this would seem to mean that our souls disappear into God, like the flame of a candle would disappear in the sun. Also, to say that "we become God" is idolatrous if you take it literally.

    If we become "one with God" and remain "other than God" at the same time, then this would seem to mean that we live forever, that our distinct personalities live forever and we can enjoy and bask in the radiance of God's light forever.
     
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    #1 abba, Sep 8, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2010
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  3. abba

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    I'd like to put my question another way:

    My name is Abba. According to Sikh beliefs, when I eventually reach the highest level and merge with God, will Abba still exist forever or will there eventually be no more Abba?
     
  4. Bahadar S

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    Now I am installed on the throne of God,
    Merging into him, as the wave merges into the sea,
    Ram and Kabir are now one,
    They cannot be distinguished.
    :)
     
  5. abba

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    You wrote "I am installed". Does this I - the You - Bahadar - exist forever?

    What are Ram and Kabir?
     
  6. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Abba Ji,

    I kind of understand where you are coming from. I, myself, have asked these questions to appease my mind. What I was actually doing was trying to satisfy my mind, eventually realized that the mind never stops asking questions. A time came when I evolved to understand, nothing changes whether the mind finally gets satisfied with very many answers because since we have a physical body we still have the "I-ness" to deal with.

    There are many gurbani quotes which attempt to give a close answer to how our illusion-filled mind would understand what we think is reality.

    E.g.
    ਕਬੀਰ ਤੂੰ ਤੂੰ ਕਰਤਾ ਤੂ ਹੂਆ ਮੁਝ ਮਹਿ ਰਹਾ ਹੂੰ
    Kabīr ṯūʼn ṯūʼn karṯā ṯū hū▫ā mujẖ mėh rahā na hūʼn.
    Kabeer, repeating, "You, You", I have become like You. Nothing of me remains in myself.

    ਜਬ ਆਪਾ ਪਰ ਕਾ ਮਿਟਿ ਗਇਆ ਜਤ ਦੇਖਉ ਤਤ ਤੂ ॥੨੦੪॥
    Jab āpā par kā mit ga▫i▫ā jaṯ ḏekẖ▫a▫u ṯaṯ ṯū. ||204||
    When the difference between myself and others is removed, then wherever I look, I see only You. ||204||
     
  7. abba

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    Namjap Ji (means Dear?),

    Thank you. Let me please ask futher:

    Do Nanak and the other Gurus know what is happening on Earth right now? Do they know what is happening in the higher worlds? Do they know what is happening to themselves? Are they aware of G-d and of other souls? Can they communicate with God and with other souls?
     
  8. findingmyway

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    First define 'I'. Is soul part of this or all of this?
     
  9. Seeker9

    Seeker9 United Kingdom
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    Excellent questions Abba Ji

    Let's look at this form the point of view of transmigration, reincarnation and the cycle of births and deaths as determined by Karmic progress

    There are rare instances where some people may remember a previous life but most of the time, those memories are wiped

    I would therefore suggest that any earthly memories of earthly lifes are wiped once the Soul merges with the Source

    And to be honest, who would care for such banal memories having made such an achievement in the first place! So, basically, the identity of Abba would be irrelevant and erased

    That's what I think.....
     
  10. abba

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    The good, holy, Godly, part of your soul, in other words, the essence of your soul, in other words, You without all of the negative aspects (ego, anger, lust, etc.), just the good part of you. This is what I mean by "I".
     
  11. abba

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    Seeker9 Ji,

    I'm not referring to the soul having memories of everything that happened to it during it's lifetime on earth.

    Right now, at this very moment, is Guru Nanak aware of God and of himself as being God's child?
     
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  12. Seeker9

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    Dear Abba Ji

    It's a good queston

    What happens when a rain drop falls into the ocean?

    Does it merge and become part of the ocean?
    Can it still be distinguished as an individual rain drop?

    I think not

    And so, my answer to your question would be no as well
     
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  13. abba

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    So according to Sikhi, Guru Nanak has no existence. In other words, his soul was, for all intents and purposes, destroyed long ago (at the time he merged with God)?
     
  14. Seeker9

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    Destroyed? NO ABSOLUTELY NOT!

    But I can see where you are heading with this and I know there are far more learned individuals than I on this forum so I will let them answer your question

    I prefer to think of altered states of existence but definitely not destruction! Is the rain drop in my earlier analogy destroyed? No off course it isn't!
     
  15. abba

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    The "drop" is destroyed in the sense that it is no longer a "drop" because all of the H2O molecules separate, i.e. one H2O molecule might end up in the Indian Ocean and another in the Atlantic. The atoms that composed the original drop might still be there, but the form of the drop disappears out of existence.

    When Guru Nanak merged with God, did the "drop" of Guru Nanak disappear out of existence? Or does anything remain of the "drop" of Guru Nanak that lives forever, any consciousness that he is Guru Nanak?

    If whatever is left of the "drop" of Guru Nanak can no longer experience pain, does this mean he also can no longer experience pleasure - even Godly pleasure?
     
  16. Astroboy

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    Guru Nanak and other living masters had reach enlightenment during their journey as human beings. Their writings are living proof of their attainment.
     
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  17. abba

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    So according to Sikh beliefs, after our souls leave our bodies and finally merge with God, we are wiped out of existence? Isn't this what Buddhists believe? Don't they believe that Nirvana is the total extinction of consciousness? There is no more pain, but neither is there any pleasure (certainly not physical pleasure but not even spiritual bliss).

    If this is Sikh belief, then all I have to look forward to for the ultimate future is the temporary pleasure of actually merging with God, but afterwards I dissipate like a drop of water and there is nothing left of me, no consciousness, no ability to have an eternal relationship with God or with other souls. I am asleep and effectively dead forever.

    Is this what Sikhism says?
     
  18. Seeker9

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    You appear to be very reluctant to let go of your ego! Whilst this discussion is ongoing, it would be interesting to learn more about your views in this regard.

    What spiritual path/religion, (if any) do you follow and what is your understanding of what happens to the soul while we are alive and after we die?

    I look forward to receiving your response
     
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  19. abba

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    I would love to finally be rid of my ego, but that probably won't happen while I am alive. (ego meaning my selfish desires). But I also have Godly desires which are selfless that I believe are eternal. But even my selfish desires can be channeled for goodness while I am alive on this earth. So, I am in constant battle with my ego - if I can't destroy it, at least for the time being I can channel it towards good.


    I really don't think this public forum should be used to discuss other religions. I think we should stay on the topic of Sikhism in this public forum. I only want to ask questions about Sikhism. I am sorry that I can't answer your question here. I came on this forum to find out what Sikhism says about what will happen to the soul after we merge with God.
     
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  20. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    This is a very important issue. I am very heartened that you have the stamina to persist with your questions. Questions that many of us also share.
     
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  21. Tejwant Singh

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    Abba ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    According to you, what do you think happens to our Soul and what makes you believe that we only merge with Ik Ong Kaar after death? Isn't the merger possible in this life of ours that we know?

    Please share your thoughts.

    Thanks & regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
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