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UK EDL's Sikh Spokesman Guramit Singh Faces Excommunication by Global Sikh Authorities

Discussion in 'Breaking News' started by spnadmin, Apr 5, 2011.

  1. spnadmin

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    EDL’s “Sikh” spokesman Guramit Singh faces excommunication by global Sikh authorities

    by Jai
    4th April, 2011 at 9:00 am

    Further to the recent joint statement by multiple British Sikh and Hindu groups condemning the English Defence League (EDL) and any Sikhs who support them, the EDL’s “Sikh” spokesman Guramit Singh has been given an ultimatum by the Sikh signatories involved: He must publicly renounce the EDL by the end of the major Sikh festival of Vaisakhi on 13 April 2011.

    Failure to do so will result in the matter being formally escalated directly to the most senior global Sikh authorities at the Golden Temple complex in Amritsar, India, who will be requested to issue an excommunication order to permanently expel Guramit Singh from the worldwide Sikh faith. As an ultimate sanction, this could result in him being formally declared a pariah to be ostracised by the world’s entire Sikh population, including being formally stripped of his right to be called a Sikh, along with being permanently banned from every Sikh temple in the world.

    As confirmed by the extensive list of signatories involved, this action is endorsed by the British Sikh population, including numerous influential Sikh temples & organisations across the United Kingdom, particularly in London and Birmingham. This includes the two largest Sikh temples outside India — one of which involves the Guru Nanak Nishkam Sewak Jatha, which was given an award last year by the Queen for its exceptional humanitarian activities and is run by “Bhai Sahib” Mohinder Singh, one of the most senior and respected Sikh figures outside India. Bhai Sahib was previously discussed on Pickled Politics here and here, and has been involved in interfaith bridge-building activities on an international scale, including efforts to counteract the increasing bigotry towards ordinary Muslims in Britain in recent years. Bhai Sahib was also responsible for escorting the Queen around the Golden Temple during her visit to Amritsar in the late 1990s.

    In complete violation of core Sikh tenets, Guramit Singh has been heavily involved in the EDL’s persecution of ordinary Muslims en masse whilst explicitly representing himself as a Sikh and claiming to be acting in the name of Sikhism, including deliberately modifying & grossly distorting sacred verses by the Sikh Gurus in order to “inspire” EDL members present during his foul-mouthed public speeches demonising Muslims, Islam and the Prophet Mohammad. Guramit Singh’s excommunication would therefore be entirely in line with historical precedents during the time of the Sikh Gurus along with the temporal authority permanently bequeathed to the Khalsa by the 10th Sikh Guru Gobind Singh. As recently discussed on Pickled Politics, it has also been confirmed that one of the EDL’s founders is a convicted criminal for downloading child pornography, and that the EDL itself has multiple links to international terrorists.

    Latest press release

    Varinder Singh, an organiser of the ‘Sikhs Against the EDL’ campaign, has issued the following public statement in the campaign’s latest press release:

    “The Sikh Community has clearly condemned Guramit Singh’s public actions which are being used as a political stunt by the EDL and thereby bringing the Sikh faith into disrepute. His actions do not reflect the Sikh faith or the community and must be stopped to prevent further damage to inter-faith relations.

    We believe because of his influence they carry the Sikh flag on their marches, use Sikh emblem and insignia in their propaganda and make one-sided and inflammatory statements about any past divisions between Sikhs and Muslims, including the Partition.

    We will be raising the concerns of our community leaders and will look to appeal to the Jathedar (Leader) of Sri Akal Takht Sahib, for him to formally issue excommunication orders should Guramit Singh decide not to denounce and distance himself from the EDL immediately.”

    Examples of propaganda by the EDL’s Guramit “Singh”

    As one of the EDL’s most high-profile spokesmen, Guramit Singh has been at the forefront of the EDL’s ongoing attempts to whip up hostility towards Muslims en masse. As previously discussed on Pickled Politics, this includes giving a public speech in December 2010 which contained the following expletive-laden propaganda slandering Islam, the Prophet Mohammad, Muslims and Allah (the video of his speech is available on Youtube):

    “I’m going to tell you precisely right now what threat of Islam is. Muhammad and Islam is not a religion… Muhammad was a paedophilic pirate… Islam, in not just this country but around the world, has been using their disgusting threat, their threat has been going on for 1400 years, “if you do not bow before Muhammad and his so-called Allah, you are to be beheaded”… Hitler had **** all on Muhammad.

    The Koran and the Hadiths is written in Arabic. Muslims are not allowed to be taught Arabic in the mosque. Muslims are told, “do not question what your Imam says, although they don’t even know what the Imam’s saying, because the Imam’s just a “Allah, **** it”. Stick your Allah up your ****, you ****. **** em, **** em, **** em. I’m not being funny, **** em. I may get arrested for this ****, but **** em, **** em, I’m not having it, **** em, **** em, **** em, **** em.”

    As a result of his appearance on the BBC’s Newsnight during a documentary about the EDL in February 2011, Guramit Singh is on record as publicly referring to Islam as “evil” and expressing vehement hostility towards the religion as a whole, not just extremist interpretations of the faith (ie. “militant Islam”).

    Due to a speech he gave at an EDL rally in November 2010, Guramit Singh is also on record as publicly attempting to exploit sacred verses by Guru Nanak (the founder of Sikhism) exalting women by first quoting the verses concerned, then deliberately paraphrasing them to change their meaning and connect them to the EDL, and finally engaging in yet another vicious expletive-laden diatribe demonising Britain’s entire Muslim population along with Islam and the Prophet Mohammad.

    Furthermore, as a result of his interview during the BBC Asian Network’s documentary “Who’s afraid of the EDL ?” in December 2010 (in which he also claimed that there is no difference between Islam and “militant Islam”), Guramit Singh is on record as using his Sikh background to justify his hatred of Islam by publicly making the historically & theologically false claim that Sikhs have been trying to “protect the world from Islam for 300-400 years”.

    Sikhism’s real stance towards Islam, Muslims and Allah

    Given the sheer scale of the demagogue Guramit Singh’s distorted propaganda, readers may wish to refer to the Pickled Politics article about the aforementioned joint statement for a detailed historical & theological overview of Sikhism’s real stance towards Islam, Muslims and Allah. Such as the fact that – for example – the foundation stone of the Golden Temple itself was laid by a Muslim saint upon the invitation of the Sikh Guru at the time, on land granted to the Sikhs by a Muslim emperor. Or the fact that the Sikh Guru who began the process of militarising the Sikhs by raising a standing army also had a mosque built for the Muslim population of the town he’d founded. Or the fact that the Guru Granth Sahib, the Sikh scriptures, includes hundreds of sacred verses originally written by Muslims, along with Islamic names for God such as “Allah”.

    In the meantime, the matter was eloquently summarised by the 10th Sikh Guru Gobind Singh, who compiled the final version of the Guru Granth Sahib; he was also responsible for fully militarising the Sikh population by creating the Khalsa on Vaisakhi in 1699. From the Akal Ustat, by Guru Gobind Singh himself:

    “Someone calls himself a Hindu, another a Turk, someone a Shia, another a Sunni. Recognise the whole of humanity as one race……

    He the One is the only God of us all: it is His Form, His Light that is diffused in all…..

    The temple or the mosque are the same, the Hindu worship or the Muslim prayer are the same; all humans are the same, it is through error they appear different…..it is the one God who created all.

    The Hindu God and the Muslim God are the same; let no man even by mistake suppose there is a difference.”

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

    http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/12279
     

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  3. spnadmin

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    Admin note:

    There are at least two issues that call attention in the above article. 1) Of course, the matter of interfaith tolerance; and 2) the issue of excommunication.

    Is excommunication possible within Sikhi? If a Sikh is "excommunicated" (perhaps shunning is a better term) and denied pangat and sangat, who does that? How does it happen according to principles of Gurmat? The Sikh Rehat Maryada discusses local and corporate punishment very explicitly. Who are the worldwide Sikh authorities that are empowered to excommunicate, as described in this article? Does this fit with the Sikh Rehat Maryada?

    I raise the last point: though I may not like Guramit Singh and I reject what he stands for, is it acceptable to have different rules for different folks depending on whether we accept their point of view?
     
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  4. Ambarsaria

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    Just some comments.

    Sikh community needs to get on with the times. Not all Sikhs are going to think alike.

    Sat Sri Akal.




     
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  5. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    a small question...just how many "islamic" organsiations are on record for having requested similar actions against any similar loud mouthed muslim fanatic in UK ??..and there are many many such loud mouthed and even foul mouthed mullahs that have been recorded by authorities preaching hatred as well. A clap has to be reciprocated by both hands if there is to be a sound...the better the reciprocation..the louder the clap !! to me it seems just one palm trying hard to clap...hence no sound....imho the Civil Authorites in UK are in avery good position to handle such issues without involving religion/religious authorities..esp the ones in Punjab which themsleves have a dismal record...and will give a totally wrong perpesctive on Sikhism/Gurmatt as is evident from the above report...a cursory reading gives the impression that Sikhism is akin to the Catholic Church..inter alia Vatican / Rome /Pope type of "religious dictats"..which are actually ULTRA VIRES the Sikh rehat maryada or Code of conduct which gives precedence to LOCAL SANGATS rather than those 8,000 miles away.
    Guramrit Singh is an exception rather than the rule of a typical Sikh...lets not make him a Martyr by giving him too much credence..
     
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  6. SachaSingh

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  7. SachaSingh

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  8. Ambarsaria

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    SachaSingh ji I appreciate that you have good intentions.

    One however has to recognize that the gentleman is using his civil rights. What difference does it make if you excommunicate such person. In all media and everywhere he cannot be stopped from using his name or doing what he does as long as it is within the local laws.

    Let us grow our minds and not shrink them through exclusion or petty persecution of our own. Alienation is never the answer. Check how many people still adore so called the Ex-communicated Professor Darshan Singh ji and his gift of Kirtan, Viakhia, etc.

    The saying is "let sleeping dogs lie". The best action in such situations is to ignore. Let us know how much control you have been able to exercise in other people's sons who may be relatives or friends peacesign and acting not to your liking.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  9. SachaSingh

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    Ambarsaria Ji, I take your point as regard to Prof. Darshan Singh ji, and also this person, if excommunicated may in fact become more popular in some circles.

    But as regard to my sons and my reatives' or friends' sons, I have been very blessed that, so far none of them support any fascists and do not join gangs of football hooligans to march up and down to terrorise some frightened communities.

    I am sure you would agree with me that its not the way Sikhs behave and to demonise and villyfy a whole people, for the actions of a small minority, is against all Sikh principals.

    Above all, as the pickeledpolitics article shows, none of our great gurus ever blamed Islam as a whole and in fact they only wished 'Sarbat Ka Bhala'.
     
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  10. Ambarsaria

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    Thanks for the post and great to hear about your personal blessing for sure.

    By the way in the context of "Sarbat da Bhala" our Gurus did not insist that we don't worry more for our own either. Just out of curiosity how many muslims have you come across who either personally raised the matter of a Sikh beheading by Taliban and showed remorse or disgust about it? This I find very disturbing as I don't run into many and they are always blaming someone else for all that ails them. It is USA, UK and so on.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
  11. SachaSingh

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    Ambarsaira ji, I am only a simple man and not educated like yourself. Please forgive me if I misquote some of our guru's teachings as its only from memory. But from what I remember is that Guru Ji said, 'No Koi Apna Na Koi Prya' and they also said 'Awal Allah Noor Upaya, Kudrat ke Sab Bande'.

    As regards to Muslims not condeming bad things done by other Muslims, I think 'two wrongs don't make one right'. Perhaps we can teach them by example.

    Sat Sar Akal ji
     
  12. Ambarsaria

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    Guru Gobind Singh ji also taught them through sacrifice and sword. So we need to be Saint-Soldiers not just saints.

    Regards and take care. There is nothing wrong with your posting and it is appreciated.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
  13. kds1980

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    YouTube - Gaddaar Sikhs supporting Jagdish Tytler

    What about these Sikhs?Should all of them allowed to be part of Sikhism?

    As far Gurmail singh is concerned he cannot be excommunicted .He is not a mass leader of sikhs ,He is not an elected politician or even representative of Sikhs.He is not even fully practicing sikh.As far bad language against muslims is concerned I guess some people need to read 18th century Rehat nama's.This will show them what type of language against muslims is written by some puratan sikhs.

    The truth is these days Sikhs are running and associating with several organisations .There are several sikhs in RSS who also use hate words against muslims What about them? So when Sikhism is already divided you cannot say that other person should be excommunicated Whether they are pro, anti muslim or anything.
     
  14. SachaSingh

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  15. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Has anyone any info on whether the Pope in Rome has received any such request to excommunicate the Roman catholic EDL members ?

    Has the Queen of England as Head of the Church in London received a simialr request to excommunicate any of Church of England members of EDL ??

    The Roman vatican has an OFFICIAL policy on EXCOMMUNICATION while GURMATT and SIKHI has NO SUCH THING . The Church can excommunicate and that is Valid..but not in Sikhi....who are we trying to FOOL here ?? Is the EDL a SIKH MAJORITY PARTY ?? Its a campaign by some SELF SERVING SELFISH SIKH fighting to preserve his TURF. nothing more. Dont be misled .:singhsippingcoffee::interestedsingh::eek:rangesingh:japposatnamwaheguru:
     
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  16. spnadmin

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    Gyani ji

    I cannot say whether the Pope has received any requests to excommunicate EDL members. But from early life experiences, in the Roman Church, excommunication does not happen because of outcries on the Internet that the "Pope should do something about this." Excommunication, in modern times post 1700, unfolds in a variety of ways.

    1. There is a social justice issue which the Roman Church has studied for a long time (maybe over a century. An example would be slavery. After sustained debate on the issue, the Pope decides that slavery is a grave sin. In the 19th Century, therefore, the Pope declared that slave-holders would be excommunicated. Many countries in the New World, like Mexico, disbanded the practice by law. On the other hand, slave-holders in slave states in the US with large RC populations like Louisiana, were likely to keep slaves until the hour of death and then set them free. So important was slavery to the economy of those states. Today the discussion is looking at the death penalty as a possible crime against the church.

    2. An individual or group of individuals continue to preach theories that are held to be heretical. Again, after much study by specially appointed theologians, they are called to Rome and a virtual trial takes place, conducted according to canon law. At the end it is decided whether they are preaching heresies. If so, they are given a choice to cease and desist or leave the church. Hans Kung the famed German theologian is an example. Liberation theologians, most in South American, also faced the same.

    As an aside, American universities supported by orders of priests and nuns were told to fire professors who were walking outside the bounds of accepted dogma, or else.

    3. An individual engages in practices that lead automatically to excommunication because of a past Papal decree where the Pope has spoken "ex cathedra," that is from the throne of Peter, on a matter of faith or morals. Abortion, failure to receive holy communication during the Easter season are just 2 examples. Since the Pope has spoken by official decree, this can never be reversed by popes to follow.

    These 3 very general examples come to mind immediately. There are others I have left out. the process was worked out over centuries, especially post-the-Spanish-Inquisition. The difference with Sikhi should be clear. The Roman Church depends on the authority of Peter the Apostle to make excommunication legitimate. However, pressure builds within the church on various issues which the Pope eventually addresses. There is a lengthy period of debate by scholars and theologians attached to the Vatican, there may be evidence collection, and even a trial in some cases. I leave it to forum members to complete the comparison. How does Sikhi differ? It boils down to knowing our seat of authority -- no one individual. And it boils down to knowing our history... how matters of faith were resolved in the past.
     
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  17. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Spnadmin Ji,
    Thank you for the fully informative reply on Rome vis avis excommunications.

    I must apologise becasue i failed to make it clear in my message that i was trying to be "sarcastic"..or tongue in cheek.
    You see RC have ex-communications but we siksh DONT...yet here is a bunch of sikhs trying to achieve the impossible...do what cant be done. So IF the others cna see the sheer stupidity why cant this small group (maybe just 1 or 2 ) of sikhs see how stupid they are ??cheerleader
     
  18. spnadmin

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    That's OK veer jio,

    I did not pick up the sarcasm. But did pick up the point. Sikhs do not have excommunication.

    The reason I went into detail was to give background to my own sarcastic statement

    The Pope simply does not excommunicate at the drop of a hat. It is a laborious process. Having clamor on the Internet will not move the Pope one way or the other. Therefore .... I don't know how to finish the sentence.
     
  19. Chaan Pardesi

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    The point being missed is that those who are commiting violence and crime in the name of islam are not at all proper muslims.Yet, proper muslims are very quiet on the acts of these fanatical scum.This portays that the whole of islam agrees or condones the acts of the criminals, otherwise WHY THE SILENCE of the majority of muslims about the lowlife acts of the criminals in the name of islam.This is another crime against humanity and GOD- using religion to appease God- but then killing in the name of GOD is a seriously grave error in understanding God and religion.

    Therefore some people have taken to do something about these issues.That may be morally wrong , criminally against the law, but then it is the fault of the law that is not doing anything about the crimes from the muslims in the name of islam.

    For a Sikh when all means have failed to resolve the issue peacefully and amicably, and he feels it is right as the last alternative to fight back, then that is not morally wrong nor criminally, as long as the fight does not transgress upon the rights of others and the poor.

    This is exactly what Gurmit Singh feels.that is his right.but whether it morally right or wrong, that can only be told by time to come.

    However, Varinder Singh jhas jumped on to a diffeent horse and is running down the wrong alley.He has done absolutely nothing about the acts committed in the name of religion nor the crimes against innocents, and has started chasing after those who decied to act and expose the crimes.

    Secondly, Varinder is no Sikh himself as he does NOT understand the Sikh law of communication- and is using it for the wrong reasons to attain his own rewards.he is politicising the Sikh canon law to appease powers that do not beleive in freedom of religion and have long history of forcing conversions for one excuse or another for the " cause of GOD" that they feel is ONLY CONTRACTED out to one religion.That is all absolutely rubbish-However Sikh gurus and Sikh religion has had a long history of fights against such thinking and such forceful conversions and thinking.So how does Varinder explain this and the Sikh history?

    It at all, it is Varinder that should be ex- communicated for misusing and misleading the Sikh religion and involving it's law for political gains.

    Gurcharan Singh, Kulim
     
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  20. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    1. So there you have it right from the horses mouth...Chann Ji has let the Varinder Cat out of its bag...and I was right in assuming that all this hoo haa has to be 1 or at most 2 self serving politicians out to protect their turf.

    2. Spnadmin Ji I too missed your sarcasm in my first reading...yes i agree Sikh jathedars take every opportunity to sit down and announce this excommunication that communication..and even withdraw or refuse to withdraw...any such at the behest of their masters..thats is when asked JUMP..they ask HOW HIGH ???

    3. The Liberal Muslims are deathly scared. period. Their policy is keep quiet and why invite trouble. They KNOW what happens to those Muslims who dare speak up...see what happened to the Gov of Lahore in Pakistan and others. I am sure all of you read what the REAL MUSLIM on the plane that forced a Catholic Nun to disembark on susicion of being a "muslim" said in the story...he said..I am muslim, my name Abdullah clearly declares this fact..and I was ENJOYING the show...sitting back and seeing this Non-Muslim getting thrown off the plane simply becasue the others thought she was "muslim". I have a sneaky feeling this is exactly what such people discuss among themsleves when news of SIKHS shot and killed in hate Crimes becasue of being mistaken for MUSLIMS happens. They must snicker and laugh..at the sikh fools......and that may be what many of them think of Guru teg bahdur Jis sacrifice for freedom of religion of the Hindus...its reality. My view may be tainted by my perceptions...apologies if hurt anyones feelings.animatedkhanda1animatedkhanda1animatedkhanda1animatedkhanda1animatedkhanda1
     
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  21. Ambarsaria

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    Gurcharan Singh, Kulim ji your posts and insights much appreciated. It is petty politics as you said.

    It is important for Sikhism to have Sikhs of varied opinions. That is one of the biggest gift of our Gurus and our religion if people understand. It is the gift of understanding, learning and living so rather than be led like a flock of sheep where everyone and everything is done the same way.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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