Ear Wax And Creation Issues Raised By S. Harmanjeet Singh Ji Answered

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh
Devi Bhagat!

Well now when a poor Sikh who knows only Akal is accused of being Devi Bhagat? Why Tejwant Singh Ji are not saying anything in here ? Does not it pains ?

Devi also means devine in Sanskrit. Trust has to be on Akal and not humans as humans are false.

Brother, you can take address of Das from Father of all missionaries in Lajpat Nagar delhi, as Das is one of you only.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh
Devi Bhagat!

Well now when a poor Sikh who knows only Akal is accused of being Devi Bhagat? Why Tejwant Singh Ji are not saying anything in here ? Does not it pains ?

Devi also means devine in Sanskrit. Trust has to be on Akal and not humans as humans are false.

Brother, you can take address of Das from Father of all missionaries in Lajpat Nagar delhi, as Das is one of you only.

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

If you sing praises of devi, you are a devi bhagat. Simple and clear as that. I don't sing any praises of kala afgana yet I get labelled kala afgani for no reason.

First of all, I am not a kala, I am brown.
Secondly, I am not an afgan, I a Punjabi.

Someone who reads devi joo kee ustat get angry when he gets labelled devi bhagat. THen he says devi means divine. Deep down, he knows who devi is refferred to and got mad because he knows the link.

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

If someone loves to read devi joo kee ustat, they should man up and admit they are devi bhagats. Props to Hindus for admitting truth. Those who are confused about being Hindu and Sikh, what can be said about such people?

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Daer Brother,

Glory to the devine one, is meant with devi Ju Ki Ustat. In latin term Dei is used for God.

Did Guru sung Devi's praise when Guru is termed as Parbati Mai(Japu Ji Sahib) or Self is Kavla and self is Kant(Ang 1190) ?

Some time people are of some other color from above and some other color from inside dear brother.

So

ਪੰਨਾ 534, ਸਤਰ 4
ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਮਹੇਸ ਸਿਧ ਮੁਨਿ ਇੰਦ੍ਰਾ ਮੋਹਿ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਹੀ ਦਰਸਾਰੇ ॥੧॥
ब्रहम महेस सिध मुनि इंद्रा मोहि ठाकुर ही दरसारे ॥१॥
Barahm mahes siḏẖ mun inḏrā mohi ṯẖākur hī ḏarsāre. ||1||
Brahma, Shiva, the Siddhas, the silent sages and Indra - I seek only the Blessed Vision of my Lord and Master's Darshan. ||1||
ਮਃ 5 - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

Is this some Hindu Bhagat of Vishnu.


As per Vishnu Puran,Padam Puran, Makandey Puran and Shrimad Bhagvat Purana, there is Vishnu who is Nirankar,Oankar, Takhur, Gobind, Ram living in all and taking form of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiv.

Let us check your understanding of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, how is that Vishnu differnt than our God of Sikhs ?

This is the logic Mr Ambala used to attack the part of Shri Dasham Granth Sahib.
[/SIZE]

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

What does the above quote have to do with Mahakal being God or earth being created from wax? WHy post unrelated quotes?

You have read too many puraans so you are confused.

Puraans also say Vishnu has 4 arms, etc. etc. which gives the distinction between God of Sikhs and God of puraans. Same is the case with Mahakaal. That is why devi joo kee ustat readers can't tell difference between hingula, pingula and Akaal Moorat, Nirankaar.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh
What was the reason for calling a fellow Sikh as Devi Bhagat ? Answer was given to that wrong assertion dear brother.

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

What wrong assertion? Was I wrong to call you a devi bhagat? You are not a devi bhagat? You don't read devi joo kee ustat with devotion?

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh
Dear Brother,
Four Armed term is there in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji also.

ਪੰਨਾ 324, ਸਤਰ 13
ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ਨ ਚਤੁਰਭੁਜੁ ਪਾਈਐ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
चतुराई न चतुरभुजु पाईऐ ॥ रहाउ ॥
Cẖaṯurā▫ī na cẖaṯurbẖuj pā▫ī▫ai. Rahā▫o.
Through cleverness, the four-armed Lord is not obtained. ||Pause||
ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

It does not mean at all as you have asserted ie to provide food to four direction. If that Bhuj has to be taken as Bhunj, then it will mean as consumer of four direction.

Term Bhunch is used for that in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji while for arm we have term Bhuj.

Lastly kindly apprriciate that nomenculture of upper caste Vaishnavs, attributed to Vishnu is used for attributing the qualities of true God of Sikhs as kirtam nam or name based upoon deeds.

Why cannot the outcaste Shakta's(both Vam Margi/twisted path and Dakshin Margi/right path) could be preached sprituality by letting them know that name of thier demigods are attributes of True Gods of Sikhs.

Kindly read Braham Kavach, which comes at last of Chandi Charitar the second. It is not in Markandey Purana and it will remove the doubts.Akal Bless.

 

[spnadmin]

Gurfateh
Dear Brother,
Four Armed term is there in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji also.

ਪੰਨਾ 324, ਸਤਰ 13
ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ਨ ਚਤੁਰਭੁਜੁ ਪਾਈਐ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
चतुराई न चतुरभुजु पाईऐ ॥ रहाउ ॥
Cẖaṯurā▫ī na cẖaṯurbẖuj pā▫ī▫ai. Rahā▫o.
Through cleverness, the four-armed Lord is not obtained. ||Pause||
ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

It does not mean at all as you have asserted ie to provide food to four direction. If that Bhuj has to be taken as Bhunj, then it will mean as consumer of four direction.

Term Bhunch is used for that in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji while for arm we have term Bhuj.

Lastly kindly apprriciate that nomenculture of upper caste Vaishnavs, attributed to Vishnu is used for attributing the qualities of true God of Sikhs as kirtam nam or name based upoon deeds.

Why cannot the outcaste Shakta's(both Vam Margi/twisted path and Dakshin Margi/right path) could be preached sprituality by letting them know that name of thier demigods are attributes of True Gods of Sikhs.

Kindly read Braham Kavach, which comes at last of Chandi Charitar the second. It is not in Markandey Purana and it will remove the doubts.Akal Bless.

vijaydeepsingh ji

In my opinion, the above post sounds very much like offering a sop to vendantist sympathiizers in a purely political sense of the word "sympathisizers." Not for one minute do I believe that you intend your comments to be taken literally as a way of showing broad and inclusive sentiments toward Hindu beliefs. This sounds almost like frustration and anger at Sikhs who will not bend in your direction -- all covered up with the sound of compassion for "outcastes" and "Shata and Dakshin Margi." This is Arya Samaaj talk. Pure and simple!

 

[Astroboy]

I think Vijaydeep Singh Ji has gone very deep in his research of Gurbani and wants to find the missing links. But however, an archeological based fact finding might be frustrating because of ambiguity of words and also in SGGS there are many languages used. Therefore, the only source of fact finding remains in old publications of articles which have become home of the silverfish.

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Vijaydeep, once again you are making false statements. Read Mahan Kosh, Chattar Bhuj means provider of food. Do you get your food from Vishnu of Purans? Why are you trying to find Vishnu from Purans anyways? Looks like you have read too many shasters and Purans, this is causing major problems for you. That is why Gurbani said not to sing shastars and Purans. Gurbani says:

ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਆਨੰਤਾ ਗੀਤ ਕਬਿਤ ਨ ਗਾਵਉਗੋ ॥ ਅਖੰਡ ਮੰਡਲ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਮਹਿ ਅਨਹਦ ਬੇਨੁ ਬਜਾਵਉਗੋ ॥ ੧॥ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ਰਾਮਹਿ ਗਾਵਉਗੋ ॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੯੭੨}
Baid Puraan Saastar Aanantaa Giit Kabit Na Gaavogo || Akhand Mandal Nirankaar Mahe Anhad Bayn Bjaavaogo || Bairaagee Raamhe Gaavogo ||
There are many songs and poetic verses from Vedas, Puraans and Saastars but I do not sing them. In the everlasting realm of Formless Master, I play the flute of the Anhad shabad, the vibration of God’s praise. I sing God’s praises while remaining detached from the influences of worldly affairs.

Looks like devi bhagats are also vishnu bhagats.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

vijaydeepsingh ji

In my opinion, the above post sounds very much like offering a sop to vendantist sympathiizers in a purely political sense of the word "sympathisizers." Not for one minute do I believe that you intend your comments to be taken literally as a way of showing broad and inclusive sentiments toward Hindu beliefs. This sounds almost like frustration and anger at Sikhs who will not bend in your direction -- all covered up with the sound of compassion for "outcastes" and "Shata and Dakshin Margi." This is Arya Samaaj talk. Pure and simple!

Dear Sister,

When we talk via logic, we are actually falling in Arya Samji talk as their Nayay(justification by logic) is being used by Sikh. while das talked of two ways of Shaktas. There another reason in here.Das has proved it via qoutes in answering the doubts raised by Mr Ambala Ji.

In Shaktas, there is no text where Vam Margi and Dakshin Margi vocbulary is used at all. It is only by Tenth Master. Reason, to unite mankind in one, the way both Islamic and Vaishnavite vocabulary is used to prove the principle of Sanjhiwalta or commonlity of God in all.Be it Muslim, Be it Vaishnavite or Be it Shakta.

Arya Samaj is worst enemy of Vedanta.Das will not elaborate about it much other then there mere gaining the knowledge of God in all is target while in Sikhs, we have to realise it too.Arya samaji Ramdev recently called Vedanta and Adi Sankara as the reason for India's slavery.

As a Sikh dealing with Hindus, das finds them making such comments as "poem of Nanak" were in praise of Vishnu or Tenth Master worshipped goddess and such things. They are given the befitting reply.

coming to assertion that Shri Dasam Granth Sahib will bring Hindu texts into Gurudwara. It should be noted that in the relgious houses of Bandai, Sindhi, Nanak Panthis, Udasis, we find Hindu books with Shri Guru Granth Sahib and Shri Dasham Granth Sahib is not there at all.

Whereever Shri Dasham Granth Sahib is there no Hindu book could intrude us.

Just two examples of opposition of Vedas in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji are given and there are many more.
ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਭੈ ਬਹੁ ਭੇਦ ਕਹੈ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਨ ਜਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਸਿਪਾਨ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕਰਿ ਮੈ ਨ ਕਹਯੋ ਸਭ ਤੋਹਿ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥੮੬੩॥
Sinmrit(i) Saasta Bed sabhai bahu bhed kahai ham ek naa jaanyo|| Sriasipaan kripaa tumrikar(i) main a kahyo sabh tohe bakhaanyo||863||
The Simritis, Shastras and Vedas describe several mysteries of yours, but I do not agree with any of them. O sword-wielder God! This all has been described by Thy Grace, what power can I have to write all this?.863.(End of Ram Avtar)

Also see Charitropakhyan 266.

For Vedas and Samritis
1. Page134 Line 10
ਜੇ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਨ ਕੇ ਭਏ ਅਨੁਰਾਗੀ ॥ ਤਿਨਿ ਤਿਨਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੀ ਤਿਆਗੀ ॥
Je Sinmritan ke bhae anuraagoo|| Tin(i) tin(i) kriaa Brahm koo tiaagoo||
All those who became followers of these smritis, they abandoned the path of the Lord.
2. Page134 Line 14
ਜਿਨ ਮਤ ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬਨ ਤਿਆਗੀ ॥ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੇ ਭਏ ਅਨੁਰਾਗੀ ॥
Jin mat Bed Kateban tiaagoo|| Paarbrahm ke bhae anuraagoo||
Those who abandoned the path of the Vedas and Katebs, they became the devotees of the Lord.

From Vachitar Natak Sahib.

Lastly coming to defination given by Nabha Sahib, as per him too Bhuj is not to do with food provider.

It is more to do with what is called Father Bethal give me Arm/support.


ਚਤੁਰਭੁਜਸੰ. ... ਵਿ- ਚਾਰ ਬਾਹਾਂ ਵਾਲਾ। ੨. ਸੰਗਾ- ਵਿਨੁ, ਜਿਸ ਦੀਆਂ ਚਾਰ ਬਾਹਾਂ ਹਨ। ੩. ਕਰਤਾਰ, ਜੋ ਚਾਰ ਦਿਸ਼ਾ ਨੂੰ ਭੁਜ (ਪਾਲਨ) ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ. ''ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ਨ ਚਤੁਰਭੁਜ ਪਾਈਐ.'' (ਗਉ ਕਬੀਰ)Defination three, does Bhuj/rearing/support to four direction.

It has nothing to do with let other's eating at all but to consuming of all.

See the defination of Bhuj
ਭੁਜਦੇਖੋ, ਭੁੰਚ। ੨. ਸੰ. ਸੰਗਾ- ਜਿਸ ਨਾਲ ਭੋਜਨ ਕਰੀਏ ਬਾਂਹ ਭੁਜਾ. ''ਭੁਜ ਬਲਬੀਰ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਸੁਖ ਸਾਗਰ.'' (ਗਉ ਮ ੫) ੩. ਹੱਥ। ੪. ਬੰਬਈ ਹਾਤੇ ਕੱਛ ਰਿਆਸਤ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਧਾਨ ਨਗਰ. ਦੇਖੋ, ਕੱਛ ੨। ੫. ਹਾਥੀ ਦੀ ਸੁੰਡ। ੬. ਸ਼ਾਖਾ, ਟਾਹਣੀ। ੭. ਭੋਜਪਤ੍ਰ ਬਿਰਛ। ੮. ਦੋ ਸੰਖਾ (ਗਿਣਤੀ) ਬੋਧਕ. ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਬਾਹਾਂ ਦੋ ਹੁੰਦੀਆਂ ਹਨ.
Then see Bhunch
ਭੁੰਚ

ਭੁੰਚੁਸੰ. ... ਭੁਜ. ਧਾ- ਟੇਢਾ ਹੋਣਾ, ਪਾਲਨਾ, ਝੁਕਣਾ, ਖਾਣਾ, ਭਣਕਰਨਾ, ਭੋਗਣਾ, ਆਨਦ ਲੈਣਾ. ''ਮਨਇਛੇ ਫਲ ਭੁੰਚਿ ਤੂ.'' (ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮ ੫)
ਭੁੰਚੁ''ਕਮਾਵਦਿਆ ਸੁਖ ਭੁੰਚੁ.'' (ਮ ੫. ਵਾਰ ਗੂਜ ੨)
ਭੁੰਚੁ''ਸੁਖ ਭੁੰਚਹੁ, ਮੇਰੇ ਭਾਈ.'' (ਸੋਰ ਮ ੫)
ਭੁੰਚੁ''ਰਸ ਕਸ ਸਭ ਭੁੰਚਹ.'' (ਆਸਾ ਮ ੫)
ਭੁੰਚੁ''ਭੁਚੰਤੇ ਮਹੀਪਤੇ.'' (ਸਹਸ ਮ ੫)
ਭੁੰਚੁ''ਜੇ ਕੋ ਖਾਵੈ, ਜੇ ਕੋ ਭੁੰਚੈ.'' (ਮੁੰਦਾਵਣੀ ਮ ੫)
ਭੁੰਚਹੁ

ਭੁੰਚਾਦੇਖੋ, ਭੁੰਚ.
ਭੁੰਚਾਵਉ

ਭੁੰਚਿਆ

ਭੁੰਚੈਦੇਖੋ, ਭੁੰਚ.
It has nowhere being told to be providing food.

Same way term Bhuj or Banh is used in Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji.

Das hopes that matter is clear by now.

 

[spnadmin]

vijaydeep ji

You may be right - vedanta may be the enemy of arya samaaj! That is even more grist for my mill -- because I really do not think that this entire discussion really is about any holy or divine whatsoever. The great disrespect to our Gurus in my opinion is that they are being used in a complicated debate over the authenticity of texts to advance a political agenda -- once again. It is no different from putting Guru Arjan Dev on a hot plate and then marching him into a river -- recipe for sudden death. (Have you ever seen a cook take the skin off a tomato?) No different.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh
Dear Sister,

Das agrees to you and will be careful in future. Here in India, leftism is dealt at social level also, which oppose the liberal outlook of the society.

In the case of spirituality, its intrusion is not very good.

Say in hindu Nepal, Maoist once made their own priest to Hindu Temple, who siphoned off the temple funds for guirillas /rebels.

Large number of Indian district are ubder thier control.

Areas with good Sikh influence are out of bound for them.

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

coming to assertion that Shri Dasam Granth Sahib will bring Hindu texts into Gurudwara. It should be noted that in the relgious houses of Bandai, Sindhi, Nanak Panthis, Udasis, we find Hindu books with Shri Guru Granth Sahib and Shri Dasham Granth Sahib is not there at all.

Whereever Shri Dasham Granth Sahib is there no Hindu book could intrude us.

They don't need Dasam Granth because they already have the original Hindu texts, instead of translations. A Sikh only needs Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Not translations from Markandya Puran or Bhavat Puran or whatever other texts were used to create Dasam Granth. I don't understand your love for arya smajis and videnta. It doesn't matter what they believe or what they don't believe. Focus of Sikh is what Guru Granth Sahib Ji says. Guru Granth Sahib Ji says Ika Bani Ik Gur Ikko Shabad Veechar. No Dasam Granth or Sarabloh Granth. Guru Gobind Singh Ji was equal to other Gurus so if he had written by Gurbani, it would have been in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Fifth Nanak added own bani in Aad Granth Ji so there was no restriction on 10th Nanak either. Dhirmalleas and prithias type created another granth to fool Sikhs.

Those definitions of Charturbhuj are correct. Kahan Singh says God is the caretaker in all directions. How does God take our care? God gives to us. It doesn't mean God has four arms at all and Bhai Kahan Singh says the same thing. Why would you try to fool Sikhs then? Other than that, Dasam Granth's chaturbhuj is about 4 physical arms because he is none other than Mahakaal. He has conch in one hand, snakes in neck, etc. so it is clearly not God of Gurbani. Sarpanee is maayaa so God is maayaadhaari?

As said before Vijaydeep, please don't try to fool Sikhs. Especially not on sites where people are awake.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh
Dear Brother,

People who das qouted misqoute Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, so they were talked about. Had Shri Dasham Granth Sahib not there then Sikhs would have been Hindus by now.

There are referance to various episode in Bhagwat Puranas mentioned in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, we do not have to go to Hindu Brahmin for that. We are told in correct prespective by Tenth Master.

Likewise coming to the translation of Markandey Purana, it is not detto as per the source of Hindus. As Sikh we are only told to not go to Devi as "she" is mere manifestaion of Akal, likewise Devi worshippers are told that goddess in only a Kirtam Nam or name by actions attributed to of Akal.

your qoutes from Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji say that Guru is one, Voice is one and verses views are one.This rather shows one ness of Guru ie Akal as source of Both Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji.

Lastly you want to say that Tenth Master would have included his verse in Shri Guru Granth Sahib. Had he included even one, then people would have taken that only authantic. Would it be easy for Sikhs to handle such a big volume if both text were to be combined and that also in medivial ages ?

Why did not Tenth Master put his order to behold Shri Guru Granth Sahib as Guru in Shri Guru Granth Sahib ?

Lastly about conch,snake and mammon, das has clarified them in issues answer Mr Ambala.

Does eveything in direction eat? are we the only one in four directions ? who supports objects in space ?

Das himself is a fool.

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Guru Gobind Singh Ji didn't include that Guru Granth Sahib Ji is Guru in Guru Granth Sahib Ji because he didn't have to. Guru Nanak had already declared and Guru Arjan had written: Pothi Parmesure Kaa Thaan. Pothi is one word. Not plural. Are we clear?

How do snakes turn into asteroids is some not known. Unfortunately, I don't consume Mahakaal drinks so I can't imagine snakes being referred to as asteroids. And when did space turn into neck of Mahakaal? Vijdaydeep, please don't try to fool others by making false statements. Asteroids have no relation to snakes. I already answered this false statement of yours in another thread.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh
Dear Brother,

Pothis is term used to Gurbani at the time of First Master and was not Shri Guru Granth Sahib, It is place of God, which place does God not exists ?

By your logic already some guys have started to say that Baba Nanak did not made Second Guru as his hier(Again no personal attack for yourself but to "logic").

Even after saying Pothi Parmeshwar Ka thaun we had Nine more bodies Gurus. Tenth Master ended this and made Guru Granth Sahib Ji as our eternal Guru, which he has not mentioned in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Your qoutes does not still answer the question and twisting attempt has failed.

Well what do you mean by nugg in Punjabi ? Why a gem/precious stone is called Nugg in Punjabi ? As Cobra lives in mound so they are called Naag. Big mound itself is called Naag. what else is astroid ?

 

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Pothi Parmesur Kaa THaan = Shabad from 5th Nanak in reference to Aad Granth Ji. Where does first Nanak writing Pothi Parmesure Kaa THaan come from? When will you stop lying and misleading the Sikh sangat?

You said nine bodies after 5th Nanak.
Lets see:
1) Guru Hargobind
2) Guru Har Rai
3) Guru HarKrishan
4) Guru Tegh Bahadur
5) Guru Gobind Singh Ji

That is only 5. How did you get nine? Added names of those poets?

Lets see
6) Poet Shyam
7) Poet Raam
8) Poet Kaal
9) Sukha Singh Patna?

Also, do you know diffrence between naag and nugg? I sure do because I sure can read Gurmukhi script. You might fool those who have no clue about Gurmukhi script but not us.

There is no twisting attempt. I am not attempting to twist anything. I am not the one saying poet Shyam is 10th Nanak. Come on Vijay, speak truth. Gurbani says:

ਬੋਲੀਐ ਸਚੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਝੂਠੁ ਨ ਬੋਲੀਐ ॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੪੮੮}
Boaleeaai Sach Dharam Jhooth Na Boaleeaai ||
Speak truth in righteousness, do not speak falsehood.

I am sorry, how would there be righteousness when poet SHyam is declared as 10th Nanak.