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UK Drunken Thug Rips Sikh's Turban off his Head. Sikh Man Shunned by his Community

Discussion in 'Breaking News' started by Tejwant Singh, Feb 27, 2013.

  1. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Drunken thug, 25, ripped Sikh man's turban off his head for a joke causing the victim to be shunned by his own community

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rips-Sikh-mans-turban-causing-victim-shunned-


    By AMANDA WILLIAMS


    Ashley Cicatello (pictured at North Staffordshire Justice Centre today) ripped a Sikh supermarket worker's turban off his head

    A man ripped a Sikh supermarket worker's turban off his head and told friends to film the incident and put it on YouTube during a drunken joke, a court has heard.

    Ashley Cicatello, 25, had spent the afternoon drinking beer and Jagerbomb shots when he spotted the victim in a Sainsbury's supermarket on December 27, last year.

    Cicatello, from Dunkirk, Newcastle-under-Lyme, Staffordshire, told his friends: 'Get this on record. This is going on YouTube' before running up behind the victim and yanking the turban off his head.

    The prank caused the victim to be ostracised from his own community, it was claimed.

    Cicatello sprinted off with the turban and was chased through the store before being wrestled to the ground by security guards.

    He later admitted to police that he had 'been an absolute prat' and had done it because he wanted to be the 'class clown.'

    Magistrates were told the Sikh father-of-two has since transferred stores after being being too ashamed to return to work.

    North Staffordshire Justice Centre heard the victim - who cannot be named for legal reasons after a judge ruled that the shame of the incident had led to him being ostracised from his community - had faced the most 'gratuitous degradation.'

    Cicatello was convicted of religiously aggravated assault following a trial on Monday.

    He had admitted assault but denied it was religiously motivated.

    Carol Brown, chairman of the bench, said: 'Mr Cicatello caused gratuitous degradation of the victim which has resulted in an ongoing effect on the injured party.

    'This was a person working in the public sector in a public place.

    North Staffordshire Justice Centre heard the victim - who cannot be named for legal reasons after a judge ruled that the shame of the incident had led to him being ostracised from his community - had faced the most 'gratuitous degradation'

    'It's our belief that the defendant demonstrated hostility to the person who wore the turban, and therefore we find him guilty.'

    Sikh men are not permitted to cut their hair and must keep their heads covered.

    Normally turbans are only removed in the most intimate of circumstances, when bathing the head, or washing the hair.

    The victim told the court the incident had devastating consequences for him.

    Cicatello (believed to be pictured here on a night out) then sprinted off with it and was chased through the store before being wrestled to the ground by security guards

    Giving evidence he said: 'Taking a turban off a Sikh guy in public is just like hanging him in public.

    'After this I was not able to face my colleagues.

    'If this happened in India a man would never go to this place again, it is that disgraceful.

    'My self-esteem and confidence - everything has been shattered because of this incident.'

    The court heard Cicatello had gone to the store at 5pm to buy beer with three friends.

    He had drunk 'four or five pints' and four Jagerbombs - a mixture of spirit Jagermeister and Red Bull.

    He told the court: 'I got dared to take the turban off his head. It was nothing to do with his religion or the colour of his skin.

    'It was just being stupid. I just did it because I wanted to be the class clown.'

    He told magistrates he ran off with the turban because he 'panicked' when he saw the anger on the victim's face.

    Nicola Bell, defending, said he was in full-time work and had not been before the courts for five years.

    She said: 'He is mortified by his actions. He has given a formal apology to the injured party.'

    Magistrates heard Cicatello's pals had filmed the attack on a mobile phone but the footage was deleted and never uploaded to the internet.

    Sentence was adjourned to allow for reports to be prepared.

    He was bailed to appear before the same court on March 18.


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...g-victim-shunned-community.html#ixzz2M4axSQg6
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
     
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  3. Admin Singh

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    The news nowhere explains why and how the Sikh community shunned him? :mundaviolin:
     
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  4. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Some Sikhs are insecure and feel embarrassed. He seems to be one of them. He shunned himself, it seems. Many would do the opposite and organise protests against these atrocities.

    I am surprised there is no mention of United Sikhs or any other Sikh advocacy group.
     
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  5. Harry Haller

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    'Taking a turban off a Sikh guy in public is just like hanging him in public.

    '
    This is the second incident on this forum in the last few weeks, soon we will get a reputation for being precious.

    Its a pity Gurbani deals with the more intricate details of how to live, how to compose yourself, but never dealt with what to do when someone grabs your turban and runs off.

    The turban means nothing if you have not the heart of a Sikh.

    As for the community, well it appears a Punjabi man had an article of clothing stolen, and the local Punjabi community shunned him, this has little or nothing to do with Sikhism, I see nothing in this that represents any facet of Sikhism as I know it.
     
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  6. Ishna

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    It doesn't deal with wearing one, either... but that's probably for another thread.
     
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  7. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    It does DEAL with the dastaar....but def agree that its NOT the same as a Brahmins Goatee..Since a Brahmin's blood couldnt be spilt for ANY REASON WHATSOEVER....the only punishment for a head-cutting crime by a Brahmin was to CUT his Goatee OFF. This was as good as his head being cut off ( What a Vily ESCAPE PLAN or LOOPHOLE kept by the Vily Brahmin )...and a BRAHMIN whose goatte was MISSING would be SHUNNED by the public and woudlnt dare face the community...( A kind of Known offender list via the missing goatee)...This is the first i hear of the Dastaar taken off = Brahmins goatee cut off=shunning community equation...
    As a Sikh..just pick it up and LIFE GOES ON...unless you are not satisfied..and beat him up..take him to court etc..and also end up in court for taking the Law into your own hands..its your choice...def NOT "shunning".
     
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  8. Harry Haller

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    I think all the Sikh advocacy groups have their hands full with all the turban incidents in Punjab, which I understand has the highest number in the world.

    There is also a refuge for men who have had this happen to them where they can get help to reintegrate back into the community
     
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  9. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
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    Hmm yes for a Sikh it is just about putting things back in the place. Many Sikhs don't share or come out openly with their hair. Most people don't know how long the hair is. I usually have this conversation and tell them it is waist long and there is no other way for us without turbans. So they feel too embarrassed when the turban comes off.

    My dad used to take his turban off in one go. I always found it weird but never thought more about it. I find dumalla solves this problem. Specially if it is half width but 15 meters long (thus same area of cloth like a 6-7 meter turban). You cannot take it off in one go. You have to unwind it layer by layer, fold by fold. That is why it was practical in battlefield and most of today's sports.
     
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  10. Rory

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    Just a theory;
    It seems to me that perhaps the Sikh man said this for the pity of the jury or as an exaggeration to make them realize how embarrassed he was.
    If that is the case you can kind of understand the man's intentions, while admittedly it does do damage to the Sikh community by spreading misinformation.

    I could be wrong.
     
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  11. spnadmin

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    Rory ji

    Yes and the Daily Mail always has long sensational headlines. Maybe they exaggerated the headline and left things out. For example, the Mail may have distorted testimony.
     
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  12. Rory

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    @spnadmin ji, you're right. I scanned through the article again and they never quoted the man saying he was shunned by his community or anything alluding to those words.
    It seems the judge is the only one who the claim of the Sikh being "ostracised" or "shunned" can be attributed to.
    So let's sum it up by realizing that the only things the Sikh has been claimed to have said are as follows:
    Sounds like he is understandably embarrassed by the crime committed against him. He is not quoted as saying anything whatsoever about being shunned by his family/community, in fact he said nothing at all as regards to the response by his fellow Sikhs to the incident.

    At any rate I'd be very shocked and disappointed if it turned out to be true that his community shunned him for a crime committed against him? That doesn't sound like Sikhi to me. It looks like the Daily Mail was playing up on the misconception of Sikhism being a "strict eastern religion".
     
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  13. spnadmin

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    My theory is that the Sikh explained about not dishonouring kesh and that the turban is required for Sikh men in the Sikh Rehat Maryada. Maybe the explanation even got as far as a description of the need to go before panj pyare for a punishment if hair was dishonoured. Not That Any of This Happened! It was likely he was giving just a description so the court would understand how serious the matter was. It was not only an assault but a religious issue too. I wan't there, but it is not off the radar screen to imagine 2 things happened. The judge got it bungled up. The press reporters in the court took it and ran for all the sensation they could squeeze out of the story.

    This kind of thing happens on a smaller scale when Akal Takht is referred to as the apex throne, the jathedar is called a high priest, a granthi is called a priest. a gurdwara is called a temple, a difference of opinion is called a beadbi, disagreement is called the wrath of the panth. The last 2 being Sikh exaggerations in the Sikh press.

    Sikhi is a religion not given to all this hoop-ti-do but there is no way of stopping it that I can think of.
     
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  14. Harry Haller

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    :mundafacepalm:
     
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  15. spnadmin

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    Harry Haller ji

    Here is where you can refocus my attention. I am not sure how this type of story gets to the level of "precious." But then I may take things more at face value. You will help me understand.

    The story is newsworthy because it led to a court trial and a verdict of assault. In New York City, this would be classified both as an assault and a hate crime. The court is not concerned with whether or not the victim has the heart of Sikh in its determinations. Rather it is concerned that the victim was targeted because of outward signs of religious/cultural identity...assuming the assailant even knew what he was up to or what was waiting for him. There is that "both true and false" element to the story. Maybe the un-named victim has the heart of a Sikh and maybe he does not. The law can't be concerned with what is in the heart of the victim, only with the actions of the perpetrator, and evidence of motive. That means that even if a complete scoundrel is deprived of his turban, he is still owed full protection of the law. The Law has to do its duty; and the press can be counted on to get it wrong.

    Here it seems we have not a scoundrel as victim, but perhaps a cry-baby... but I wasn't there and have to depend on the hyperbole of the Daily Mail... now that is precious, Yes!

    Another thought comes to me....if this were happening in the US methinks that a good lawyer would coach the victim to really play up the "mental anguish" because a criminal conviction + mental anguish opens the door to damages in a civil case to follow.How it works in UK I don't know.
     
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    #14 spnadmin, Feb 28, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2013
  16. Luckysingh

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    The 2nd time in the last few weeks !!!
    I know Harryji, what the hell is going on with these people ??

    Why does the sikh and his turban come out to sound like a a softy love marriage between Mr singh and his pagh ?? (please don't hurt them !!)
    Why does the Singh come out looking like an embarrassed, soft, shunned and disgraced puny victim ??

    THis is bad publicity at it's best.
    AlL this is doing is telling the world about how sensitive and touchy the knocking off of a turban can be. It doesn't endorse anything about the Lion-heart and strength of a 'Singh'.

    I know that particular area of Newcastle and Stoke has a huge drug and crime problem.
    I know that the thug in the picture is one that most security personnel ..etc.. would be careful of since these type carry syringes that they will use to stab you with. (Thus infecting you with disease as well as injury.)

    But I don't understand why Mr singh didn't shout abuse and call on-lookers to help grab the attacker if he felt not strong enough on his own !!

    To tell the world that the community has shunned him makes it sound like he's no longer allowed in the gurdwara because he exposed his underhair !!!

    When faced with such a low-life attacker or thug then a Singh should never be the weak victim getting stamped on, instead he should turn the situation around so that he becomes the attacker and the thug becomes the victim !!
     
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  17. Harry Haller

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    Adminji

    although what you say is correct and true, and I am probably in the minority here, but I find the whole thing quie shambolic in terms of how I expect people to behave. What we have here is a bit of high jinks, if this gentleman is lying so that the court inflicts the maximum sentence, or the maximum compensation, then that is even worse. I know it is common to inflate the value of your goods to the insurance company after a theft, or pretend to have whiplash after a crash, and in todays society that may seem acceptable, but that is not acceptable to me. The truth, is the most valuable thing we have, and at the end of the day, the only thing that has been hurt here is pride. In playing up the mental anguish, the loss of Sikh principles and Sikh lifestyle is immediate.

    Im sorry, but if it were me, and it has been me, plenty times, I would just let it go, unless an actual assault had taken place, or, I would have tried to land a punch at the time, either way, given what we have been through as a community, I just cant get it through my head that so much pain and anguish could be caused to someone for such a trivial matter.

    So what do we know about Sikhs so far thanks to these buffoons, we now know the following.

    Sikhism is made up of men that are terrified of someone knocking their turban off.This is because a Sikh is not allowed to be seen in public with just hair, simply, it is against the religion for such a spectacle to be in the public domain. In the event of such a horrifying thing happening, the victim will be shunned by his community, and basically have some sort of nervous breakdown, before running to the authorities to prosecute. At the trial, a good Sikh should play up to the image of the frightened, abused and hurt ethnic minority in order to obtain the maximum conviction for the abuser and the maximum compensation for the self.

    Well here is Harrys action plan if you are unlucky enough to suffer this horrible injustice, first, run after your abuser, second, grab your turban back, third, laugh out loudly, slap abuser round the head, mutter kids will be kids and get on with your life.
     
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  18. spnadmin

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    Harry ji

    Why didn't he do that?

    Actually there are probably more than a dozen personal truths represented in this story, with the Daily version of it being just one. It is fascinating in a way.

    There must be people who read the Daily Mail and absorb every word as the "true facts." A whole bunch of other people read it for kicks. And a whole bunch don't read it at all. I think it has a bombing collection of photographs. I also think the nameless victim is in great pain.

    What is amazing in the story is the fact versus fiction problem. Facts that misrepresent deeper realities. Fictions that suggest a different truth. Facts lie and lies make sense. Like one of those confusing and endless novels by South American writers who are looking at life as everyone knows it and no one knows it in the same way. Tejwant Singh ji has raised a lot of questions along those lines. And I am just throwing out possible scenarios, like Detective Inspector X, which is my way of poking at problems. So far the characters in this story are mysteries and that gives the Daily free rein.
     
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    #17 spnadmin, Feb 28, 2013
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  19. Harry Haller

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  20. Luckysingh

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    I'm not sure which way the lawyers were playing this case but the laws overall are pretty soft in the UK when it comes to this.
    There is no official hate crime charge that I know of.
    Racial harassment is there but it is difficult for this matter since there is no proof of a racial threat.
    If the case had been '' give me......or I will knock your turban off''.... then it would be taken more seriously.
    The charges are most likely to be related to public disorder since no threats or intent for harm can be proved.

    The lawyers are just trying to prove that the reaction from such an embarrassment of turban removal is not what the attacker expected and leads to mental instabilities for the victim with sever mental trauma....etc..etc...
    -You see it seems better if they justify that Mr Singh will end up with 18 months off work due to depression and mental trauma from this incident and that he will be unable to go back to previous employment...etc.

    With UK laws it will be difficult to prove that it was racially provoked in any way!!


    The laws do suck at times like this and in comparison a speeding driver can get more severe punishments than a no good thug !!
    That's where the general public really get annoyed !!!
     
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  21. spnadmin

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    Yes I do. Something tells me he was manipulated, is not speaking in his own voice because he doesn't know he has one, was given lines to recite, is not in command of his own life, and is alienated from his "people" who might be a hard lot, and not that supportive to begin with. Obviously he doesn't trust he has anyone who can watch his back. And then, some of us are just fragile. Sometimes the reasons are real. What does he know, that the rest of us don't know, about the risks of fighting back? I read a story about what happened to this man. Correction: what the Daily says happened to this man. I don't have a clue who he really is and what makes him tick.
     
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