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Dr. Janet Lant MD's Essay on Discovering Sikhism

Discussion in 'New to Sikhism' started by Harkiran Kaur, Jan 10, 2013.

  1. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur Canada
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    This letter was posted on the Facebook page for the local Gurdwara where I attend (Maritime Sikh Society). Permission has apparently been granted to use it. It is a letter sent by an American female MD (Dr. Janet Lant, MD) who is embracing Sikhism, and why she chose this path. The letter was to a friend of hers, who had condemned the Sikh faith before she embraced it.

    I just read the whole thing and it's very awe inspiring!! Her reasons for finding and following this faith almost exactly echo mine!!! (equality for everyone including women, frustration at the way Christianity and all the other religions place women into a subordinate position and refer to women as unclean and cursed, and also the fact that Sikhi totally agrees with science.) It is as true today as when it was written, and contains knowledge only scientists of today in recent times are only beginning to find out (proof of divine knowledge). It's a bit long, but it's definitely worth the reading!


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    Sikhism - By Dr. Janet Lant



    Listen Chris Hammers, I never got around to telling you some of the things about Sikh religion that convince me of its authenticity.

    One major evidence is the "Holy Book" of Sikh religion known as the "Granth Sahib". The Granth Sahib was complied over a period of 240 years by the hands of the beings that founded Sikh religion. All copies are matched to the original handwritten one. It is scientifically impossible for any known being to write a book with all the qualities found in the Granth Sahib. Below are some of those amazing qualities:

    1. It is written using very deeply profound words obtained from over 16 languages. (I would say that it's words are more profound then that of any other Book on the planet, but that would not get anywhere, I would be simply dismissed as being biased)

    2. The words from over 16 incompatible languages are incorporated in a way that they make perfect sense.

    3. The alphabet the Granth Sahib uses was invented by the Supreme Beings that wrote it. The Alphabet is called Gurumukhi, it is impossible to make a spelling mistake using this alphabet because it has logical grammar rules. Every word or sound can only be written one way. Not like English where the k in knife is silent. This is the easiest alphabet to master. I bet the world would be using computers a long time ago to write things using speech recognition programs if Gurumukhi was the business language of the world.

    4. Every sentence is written in poetry of the highest order. (William Shakespeare would have been envious.)

    5. At the same time every sentence rhymes.

    6. At the same time everything is in music verse form, so that all sorts of musical instruments can be played while it is sung.

    7. Sikh religion believes praying should be a very pleasurable, stress reliving, thought provoking event. Most other religions believe praying should be a act of submission (Catholics make you kneel allot!), unquestioningly following rituals, and fear of a jealous Angry God (the Ten Commandments of Judao-Christianity state something about God being a Jealous God and one prone to Anger.)

    Now Chris, tell me does it make sense following a God who is so immature he gets Jealous, how insecure could that kind of a God be! And how wimpy and powerless must this God be if he gets Angry.

    8. The God of Sikh religion never gets Jealous because he made all those awesome things that make insecure persons jealous. Sikh religion also says God is without anger. There is a very beautiful song about this in the Granth Sahib!

    9. Before the Equal Rights movement, in fact 540 years before , Guru Nanak said many nice Praises about women, instead of condemning them like all the other great religions do. Quotes about Women in Sri Guru Granth Sahib In praise of women. "We are born of woman, we are conceived in the womb of woman, we are engaged and married to woman. We make friendship with woman and the lineage continued because of woman. When one woman dies, we take another one, we are bound with the world through woman. We grow up stronger and wiser having drunk milk from the breast of woman. Why should we talk ill of her, who gives birth to kings? The woman is born from woman; there is none without her. Only the One True Lord is without woman" (Guru Nanak Dev, Var Asa, pg. 473)

    10. Marriage is an equal partnership of love and sharing between husband and wife. "They are not husband and wife, who merely sit together. Rather they alone are called husband and wife, who have one spirit in two bodies." (Guru Amar Das, Pauri, pg. 788)

    11. Women have an equal right to participate in the congregation. "Come my sisters and dear comrades! Clasp me in thine embrace. Meeting together, let us tell the tales of our Omnipotent Spouse (God). In the True Lord are all merits, in us all demerits." (Guru Nanak Dev, Sri Rag, pg. 17). God is the husband and we are all his brides. "The spouse is but One and all others are His brides. The false bride assumes many religious garbs. When the Lord stops her going into another's home, then is she summoned into her Lord's mansion without any let and hindrance. She is adorned with the Name and is dear to her True Lord. She alone is the true bride and the Lord lends her His support." (Guru Nanak Dev, Ramkali, pg. 933) (note: Lord is one of the names of God)

    12. God is our Mother as well as our Father. "Thou O Lord, art my Father and Thou my Mother. Thou art the Giver of peace to my soul and very life." (Guru Arjan Dev, Bhairo, pg. 1144)

    13. The rape and brutalities committed against women by the Mughal invader Babar condemned. "Modesty and righteousness both have vanished and falsehood moves about as the leader, O Lalo. The function of the Qazis and the Brahmins is over and the Satan now reads the marriage rites (rape). The Muslim women read the Quran and in suffering call upon God, O Lalo. The Hindu women of high cast and others of low caste, may also be put in the same account, O Lalo." (Guru Nanak Dev, Tilang, pg. 722)

    14. The practice of women burning themselves on their husband's funeral pyre (sati) condemned. "They cannot be called satis, who burn themselves with their dead husbands. They can only be called satis, if they bear the shock of separation. They may also be known as satis, who live with character and contentment and always show veneration to their husbands by remembering them." (Guru Amar Das, Var Suhi, pg. 787)

    15. The ritual of dowry so prevalent in many societies condemned. "Any other dowry, which the perverse place for show, that is false pride and worthless gilding. O' my Father! give me the Name of Lord God as a gift and dowry." (Guru Ram Das, Sri Rag, pg. 79)

    16. First Supreme Being Guru Nanak laid the foundation of Sikhism which believes in a casteless, egalitarian society which guarantees equal rights to Women. Each of the Supreme Being Gurus under authority of God gave women equal status. They gained social and religious freedom at a time when the existing religions and society considered women to be property. The false notion that they were inherently evil and unclean was removed. A woman was regarded as temptation-incarnate. The Gurus exposed the folly of such notions.(Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Jainism, they all directly say Women are Unclean and Inferior.].

    17. Sixth Supreme Being Guru Hargobind called Woman "the conscience of man". In religious gatherings, men and women sang and preached without any distinction. The wearing of purdah (women wearing veils to hide the face) was rejected as demeaning to women. Guru Hargobind refused to have dinner with any Queen who wore a veil.

    18. Ik OnKar: means "One Creator"

    19. The circle is a chakram representing the Universe, the double edged sword represents the positive and negative side of the Force, the 2 swords on the outside of the sphere represent the hands of the One Creator protecting and beholding all that exists and beyond.

    Dear Inquisitive, challenging brother "Chris Hammer",

    I will answer all your questions in better detail when time permits. For now I will torpedo your points. PLEASE READ THE KHALSA CONSENSUS ENGLISH TRANSLATION OF GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI. Then you will see that Sikhs have more Divine proofs then any other Religion. I was born and still am a Christian, but I will soon Convert to Sikhism. The main reason being the Bible is anti-Women, it talks about the Woman’s Curse, the Old testament says God wants you to steal a baby boys foreskin, Science now says that mutilative operation is very harmful to the Defenseless infant boy, Mothering Magazine did a Science article on it. But Sikhs knew one should never destroy any Gift God gives, so cutting of a skin from the genitals is quite Evil, what happened to Human Rights, The Sikh religion Honors infants and all beings! Everyday a teaching of the Bible is found to be harmful.

    First: You claim the proof that a revelation is truly from God, is Prophesy! As you know any occult palm reader etc... can claim they predicted an Earth Quake a year before it happened. All a Psychic has to say is next year the Earth will shake. Chances under rules of Science are that there is a good chance that some kind of explosion or Earth Shaking activity will happen in a year, so Prophesy is just clever manipulation of history. You say ""The Bible prophesied hundreds of years in advance giving detailed accounts of the major empires of the world and all major cities of the ancient world as well as the names of two emperors 200 years before they were born".

    I have read the Bible, I find that these so called revelation do not prove anything anyone can make them, it's easy to turn anything written in the past into a accurate prediction, by stretching interpretations to suite an end result.

    Not to really answer your challenge. SIKHS do not depend on Prophesy, because God like a Movie producer can make any changes whenever He/She wants to. What Proves the Sikh religion came directly from God is it is the only Religion in the world that has perfect Science. Your Bible was the reason Galileo was almost Executed, because the Bible was saying the Earth is Flat & the Sun revolves around the Earth. This Male Egotistical writing is now proven face by Science. The First Supreme Being GURU NANAK, "The Light that Dispels the Darkness", wrote many Divine Poems describing Solar Systems. If you know science you know Solar System means a planetary system in which all the planets revolve around a central Star.

    Second proof The first Supreme Being or Light that Dispels the Darkness-Guru Nanak with his own hands at the order of God wrote Hymns that say the Earth and many planets are round. I will now Quote a Divine Poetic Quote translated from Gurmukhi, that teaches that not only is Earth Round but there are uncountable Earths (planets), Uncountable Solar Systems around which they orbit, Uncountable Galaxies.

    Chris Hammer, you know that it was only a few decades ago when "Hubble" an astronomer discovered that we live in a Galaxy, then much later Hubble discovered that there are many Galaxies outside our own. Well Mr. Hammer, the Sikh Holy Scripture which is the only Holy Book written by the Founder(s) of its Faith. That is like saying Jesus wrote the Bible, instead of Chauvinistic men 100's of years after Jesus died.

    The Guru Granth Sahib, over 540 years ago stated that their were Countless Galaxies, Galileo was not born until 100 years later. Guru Nanak did not have a Telescope or vast scientific resources like Galileo did. If that is not enough & you demand Sikhs to have prophesy to be valid, then I will give you something no human not even Jesus knew, the Gurus said there are Universes upon Universes, Spheres upon Spheres. What this means is that when you reach the end of our 15 billion light years size Universe, go many times that distance into empty space, you will encounter the neighboring Universe, keep traveling and the scenario will repeat. Now the Spheres upon Spheres means that about 400 trillion Universes each the size of our one Universe make a Spherical structures called a Sphere, & that there are countless numbers of these huge Spheres each containing Trillions of Universes.

    Now Mr. Hammer, your God is a God of 1 Flat Earth, 1 spiritual heaven, & 1 Spiritual Hell! The Sikh God as I mentioned above is bigger, his Earth is a Sphere, he is master of many Planets, Universes, Galaxies etc.. plus his is master of countless Physical Heavens in addition to 1 Spiritual Heaven plus countless Physical Hells in addition to 1 Spiritual Hell! So your God Mr. Hammer is quite small in power etc... How come your Bible did not mention this.

    Now to give you a prophesy, in the Future your Scientists will discover that the Sikh religion was correct when Guru Nanak stated there are Universes upon Universes, then much further into the future your Scientists will eventual realize that Trillions of these Universes form a Sphere. Below is the Quote! Enjoy!

    "There are worlds upon worlds, solar systems upon solar systems, galaxies upon galaxies, universes upon universes, spheres upon spheres, They function according to Command of God. God gets joy by thinking of and beholding His Creation;"

    "Beyond this Earth, there are many more and more earths. What power bears their load from underneath? (Not the supposed bull, but God's Force)."

    "God's One Word created the world's expansion. And lakhs of rivers began to flow."

    "There are nether worlds and more nether worlds below them and there are lakhs of skies over them. Limitless the worlds beneath, limitless the worlds above. One may grow weary of searching out His limits. One can never reach the end of His Vastness."

    "The continents, worlds and solar system, established by God, sing His glories. God's enlightened beings steeped in the Name, who are pleasing to God, sing His praises"

    "God has His seat and His storehouses in all the worlds. Whatever is stored, was put only once for all, enough forever!"

    "How many Indras, moons, suns, and how many Star Systems[Surya Mandals], and stars, How many [countless], Siddh, Buddhas [like Gautama Buddha], Nath [Gurus], and how many forms and incarnations of Devi [Durga], How many Angles, Demons, Speakers of Truth[Muni], and countless Oceans having precious stones",

    My Dear brother Chris Hammers,

    You say "I am very sorry to hear of your bad experience with Christianity, but don't make the mistake of throwing out the baby with the bath water."

    Now listen, why do you consider my future plans of upgrading (converting) to Sikhism, as throwing out the baby with the bath water. I am not interested in converting because I had bad experience with Christianity, how could I have a bad experience when all I knew as an infant was Christianity.

    My parents like you tried to discourage me from embracing Sikh ways, they said Sikhism is primitive religion. I then proved to them exactly how misguided & ignorant they were. I did this by pointing out that Christianity began 2000 years ago, it was a primitive man's attempt to understand God. So it is Christianity that is primitive, Sikhism I taught my parents is a Religion of Divine Science.

    You gave some quotes from the Bible, about Stars, but the Man who wrote that had no idea that a star is a HOT SUN like our sun, not a cool pretty shiny grain of sand in the sky. Most of my relatives understand the Bible considers stars to be Gods heavenly wallpaper nothing more. Only in the Sikh religion is it clearly stated that Stars are Suns because the Granth states Suraa Mundala, meaning solar systems.

    I never said a Guru is "The Supreme Being". What I said is "The First Supreme Being GURU NANAK, "The Light that Dispels the Darkness", wrote many Divine Poems describing Solar Systems."

    The Sikh religion states there is only one "SAT GURU" meaning True God. When I refer to Guru Nanak as a First Supreme Being, it means Pehla Mehel or First Mehel, it does not mean GOD. God is The One Supreme Being, the Gurus were one step below as Supreme Beings under the One True Supreme Being.

    The word GURU comes from 2 words GU & RU, GU means Light, RU means Darkness. Combined they mean "The Light That Dispels The Darkness" or simply GURU. Clearly each of the 10 Gurus were and are Supreme Beings working for God the One True Supreme Being. Guru Nanak walked the Land like Jesus, only difference is Nanak walked much further distances, in fact Nanak at a minimum based on other nations historical records walked enough to circle the Earth 3 times over. But in the future I feel the distance record will increase even further, for example the nation of ITALY has villagers reporting their ancestors made company with Nanak, and the Provincial Governments of CHINA are reporting, that they had visits by Nanak, they have now proved that Nanking province And Nanking City were named to Honor First Supreme Being Nanak.

    If you read Genesis or the TORAH it has a section called "The Woman's Curse", which is a Man made Bible teaching that God punished Women because a mythical Eve gave Adam a forbidden fruit. I will give you an exact quote when time permits. This Bible chapter states that women have monthly menstrual cycles because God has Cursed her. In Genesis it also says a Woman's Husband shall strike her in the Head. Read the Bible & the Old Testament or Torah and you will see how much hatred of woman there is in there. It talks of God wanting Woman to be submissive to Man.

    I am a MD and no Bible Thumping Man tells me what to do. I told my Fiancée that I am almost sure I am converting to Sikhism & if he is unwilling to do the same, then he can hit the road. He said whatever I want he wants too. I have been teaching him many of the Khalsa Books on Sikhism, and he is impressed at the GURU's teachings.

    Chris Hammers, I studied all the religions, and found all flawed, only Sikhism was able to withstand my fierce assault. I tried & tried to find fault in Sikhism, I found NONE! When I first saw a Sikh, I thought he was a Muslim, I latter learned that most Muslims never wear a Turban, a Sikh wears a Turban, because it Give a Free Cranial Adjustment & tells him & everyone else that he is beneath no one and only God is above him!

    The Pro Woman aspect of Sikhism is only one of the many Divine Reasons I am planning on Upgrading to Sikhism. I find Sikhism is a very advanced Dharma for the Modern world. My current religion just has no place to meet my Modern Demands, its not like after I got my MD, some guy with a Old Testament is going to put me in the Kitchen, because some imaginary MALE GOD told him a Woman belongs in the Kitchen, HA HA! Of course I do a lot of work in the Kitchen, but only when I want to cook something I love & avoid the unhealthy restaurant food.

    The Tenth Supreme Being Guru Gobind Singh, when traveling by the woods, got of his horse upon the sight of a Tobacco Plant. He then drew his Kirpan (holy Sword) and chopped it up, then with his feet he smeared it into the ground. Onlookers belonging to many different religions, asked the Tenth Supreme Being, why have you destroyed that plant? The Tenth Supreme Being replied "Alcohol will destroy one Generation, But Tobacco will destroy many generations."

    Chris Hammers, as you know it was only about 4 years ago that Scientist discovered that Second hand Tobacco Smoke kills, thus destroying (damaging or killing) the fetus and destroying the lives of children & great Grand Children & friends. So because the Tenth Supreme Being was in constant communications with the One True Supreme Being (Ik Onkar, Sat Nam) he had access to absolute Science. Did the Men who wrote the Holy Bible not know about Tobacco, were the not in communication with the One True Creator? Sikhism is the only Faith that forbids Tobacco in its Scriptures. Read the English Translations by SANT SINGH KHALSA, also a MD! I only hope that God will let me earn the only True Degree there is the "Degree of Divine Sikhism".

    Chris it was my Medical Colleagues who during the 50's started routine Circumcision of Defenseless Babies. This was done to make extra income for medical professionals, Circumcision increases the transmission and acquiring of STD's. Plus many other problems, In my next posting I will give over 70 Scientific references proving my point. I will do this not to prove you wrong, but to prove another Sikh wrong. Chris even Jesus tried to ban Circumcision, because the practice is Satanic, no Loving God would ask anyone to chop of a very valuable pleasure producing part.

    Until the past 12 years I went to Church every Sunday, now hopefully I will get to go to Gurdwara any day of the week as convenient. Instead of hearing a fiery sermon, I will get to enjoy Divine Music & Hymns!

    And Chris Hammer, Only Ik Onkar or One Creator's name is Precious, not a Nice Guy named Jesus. I get the impression you are a Religious Fanatic, something that the Sikh Dharma shuns. Because Fanaticism puts a wall between ones spiritual connection to One True Creator.

    Sikhs don't waste time spreading Sikhism like other religions do because, one does not give away Diamonds. I am lucky I came across this True Diamond, I only hope I have the IQ it takes to follow the Super Advanced Spiritual Teachings of the "Lights that Dispel the Darkness or Gurus".

    See, I am not the only one that knows a Turban gives a Cranial Adjustment. It is a law of Physics, not Indian culture. Sikhism is from the future, Indian is from the past, you can take the wayward path if you like. Your comments indicate you already made many a wrong choice.

    And, the Gurus were & are Supreme Beings, and there is nothing you can do to hurt them or lower their power. Some other Sikh, wrote that Punjabi Sikhs are cutting their Hair and trying to blend in with western culture. Well that's theirs & their parents poor understanding of Divinity of Sikhism. So by dumping diamonds they don't hurt me one bit, its their loss. I as a very Modern American, know I am becoming even more Modern by adopting the Guru's (the Lights that Dispel the Darkness) teachings and way of life. If Punjabi Sikhs misbehave they loose big time. I have looked at all Religions and Sikhism is the only Dharma that can exist in its current form on any Planet in Any Universe, maybe the Punjabi Sikhs don't deserve this best of all Universal Knowledge anymore.

    I wore a Kara (Sikh bangle) to the last continuing medical education seminar, and some of my colleagues asked me about it. So I told them what it was and about Sikh Dharma, they showed great interest in learning more. Two of the ladies from the group asked where they could get a translation of the Sikh Holy book. Page 14 of the Khalsa Consensus Translation must be what peaked their interest! If God gave me more time, I know it would be so easy to get far more individuals interested in Sikhism! I never ever saw a Sikh of India sharing knowledge of Sikhism with a Non-Sikh. Probably a good thing in disguise, because, I have been told so much misinformation by Native Sikhs. For example some tell me Meat is good, then they justify such butchery by saying the Gurus ate it. When I ask them for proof they come up with sloppy translations. I then waste time dissecting them and find the Gurus are speaking against killing animals in those passages. For a person like myself, it is so obvious the Gurus could never condone eating meat. As meat is unhealthy & a Shameful destruction of Life Force. I quit eating meat 12 years ago, way before I even knew Sikhs existed. Thank God the Gurus wrote the Granth and not some body much latter on.

    The Spiritual Strength Of Woman - The following is an article that Shanti Kaur Khalsa presented at the Women's Seminar at the World Sikh Samelan, Amritsar 1995.

    BANA : The Khalsa Uniform Bana is our own flag. Bana is our Nishan that states unequivocally who we are. If we have the dress and fashion of a movie star, that makes a statement as to who we are. If we wear the clothes of beggar, that also tells the world what our status is. And if we wear the Bana of the Khalsa, this makes a statement of strength that cannot be ignored by the hardest of hearts. Bana is the image and dress of grace.

    Bana is the five K's of the Khalsa: Kesh, Kachera, Kanga, Kara, and Kirpan. Each one of these beautiful accouterments gives us strength and beauty.

    Bana is a statement that says, with a look, that I belong to Guru Gobind Singh, and He belongs to me. I belong to the Khalsa and Khalsa belongs to me as the drop of water forever merges into the ocean (Guru Gobind Singh).

    I would like to share with you my own story and experiences in relation to the Bana of the Khalsa. When I first became a Sikh, twenty-three years ago, I had never seen an Indian Sikh woman. I knew only American Sikhs, and in fact, very few of those. But I knew that Kesh and Dastar were part of the 5-K's of Guru Gobind Singh. And I knew that Guru Gobind Singh promised:

    If the Khalsa maintains the distinct path, I shall give them all my strength. But if the Khalsa leaves this path, then I will withdraw my recognition.... Guru Gobind Singh

    Well, as a young woman of 18 years, full of the spirit of life and the excitement of discovering the teachings of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, it never occurred to me not to wear a turban. The Khalsa of Guru Gobind Singh wore the Dastar, and that was who I wanted to be. So it was with great sincerity that I tied my first turban. From the moment I put on a turban, the effect was immediate and exciting.
     
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  3. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    This would be someone I would take very seriously.
     
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  4. BlazinSikh

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    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh!

    Man! Just reading this, and reminding me what sikhi is again, just made me cry, tears of joy. I may have a crummy life, but being a sikh is the only greatest thing in my life and i would not have it any other way. Har Har Waheguru Ji, Har Har Waheguru Ji, Har Har Waheguru Ji, Har Har Waheguru Ji.

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh!
     
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  5. Kanwaljit Singh

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    I wanted to share this, but I had to edit it out. It is a bit impartial against Christian and other faiths. Hope the author gives up that grudge like feeling as she finds peace within herself.
     
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  6. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur Canada
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    I don't think it was a grudge so much as defending her decision to become Sikh, to a Christian Fundamentalist who was condemning her decision. It sounds to me like she was merely rebutting things that he had brought up earlier to her. (for example the way she says to him in response to his comments about a true religion needing prophesy... she rebutted by explaining that Revelations part of the Bible can be interpreted many ways, depending on who is doing the interpreting and when (because instead of straight forward language, allegory is used i.e.: "the earth will shake"). And then she adds that Sikhi had scientific knowledge long before scientists discovered the same... in reference to galaxies, solar systems etc) Sikhi had this without needing to prophesize the future, but regardless, those same scientific discoveries were made in the future.

    I think her frustration lies in the fact that most really serious Christians feel the need to 'save everyone'

    I do sense her strong feelings and frustration about her former religion though... and reading this brought back a bunch of my own frustrations. My reasons for following Sikhi are the same as hers: Frustration at how women are viewed in Abrahamic religions (cursed, unclean, original sin etc) and the actual scientific knowledge that Sikhi had long before those things could be proven by sicentists is proof to her (and me) that the Gurus had true divine knowledge!!!
     
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  7. BlazinSikh

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    Waheguru Ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ke fateh!

    my knowlegde on the New testament is weak, but i don't ever recall Jesus Christ ever referring that women are bad or have sin, however I do agree that other Abrahamic religion really have such "hate" for women which is unfair. And I also do agree with Akasha ji that christianity really do think that they can save everyone, i'm not saying that is bad, but all i am saying they shoul help other by reflecting Waheguru ji off themselves so poor, unfortunate people may feel tha vibe of Waheguru ji, rather being preached by some tom,**** and harry.

    Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ke fateh!
     
  8. Harkiran Kaur

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    BlazinSikh Ji, here are a few quotes:

    “I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (1 Timothy 2:12)

    “Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:22)

    "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3)

    "For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (I Corinthians 11:8-9)

    "Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)

    As you can see, these are just a few quotes from the Bible which sealed women's fate into subjugation for ages (and still does in some fundamentalist countries!) I can find many more quotes like these... but thought these got the point across. The whole point being, woman deceived man, (Eve made Adam eat a forbidden piece of fruit) therefore all womankind are cursed and not pure according to the Abrahamic religions.


     
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  9. spnadmin

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    Thank you www ji for answering my request.
     
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  10. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    www ji

    You could be even more specific, pointing out what phrases or writing style make you suspicious that the doctor is not a "white doctor." I myself replied she should be taken "seriously." However, I have my own doubts, but not about color or religion. I find it difficult to believe that someone with training in the sciences, in preparation for medical school, would make some statements she has made about science. I also have problems with the idea that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji validates modern scientific discovery. This always signals me that a person is taking Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in a very literal way, and is reading tuks out of the context of the entire shabad. IMHO, a problem because science evolves and will make more discoveries in decades to come. We don't even know what they will be. If Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji validates the discoveries of today, what can we say about Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and the scientific discoveries yet to come? My final concern is that our grasp of the spiritual truth, the sat, should not depend on a match with science because the truth of the sat transcends the truth of science and all natural wonders. I do not believe that the doctor is a fake. I do think her thinking is simplistic.

    p/s It is one thing to say one will only marry within one' own faith. However, when a person demands/commands that his/her spouse or intended spouse convert, what does that say how a person is living that faith?
     
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  11. BlazinSikh

    BlazinSikh
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    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh!

    WWW Ji, Why does the colour of the doctor concern you? Secondly I am not knowledgeable in native indian language, or how they pronounce the english langauge so forgive me. But to be honest who cares who wrote the article, I mean even if the article was meant to a prank, the joke is on them cause they have just talked highly of the lovely Sri Guru Granth Sahib. God bless the jokers who do not realise that there joke are love.

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh!
     
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  12. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur Canada
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    spnadmin: I can understand your thoughts on linking scientific knowledge to passages within the Guru Granth Sahib Ji, however I too am guilty of this. One passage in particular gave me goose bumps the first time I read it. And it is not a discovery that could change over time. It's one of those things that either is or isn't.

    This is the passage:
    Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji p.21

    "ਜਹ ਦੇਖਾ ਤਹ ਰਵਿ ਰਹੇ ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤੀ ਕਾ ਮੇਲੁ ॥
    Jah ḏekẖā ṯah rav rahe siv sakṯī kā mel.
    Wherever I look, I see the Lord pervading there, in the union of Shiva and Shakti, of consciousness and matter."

    The above line can not be misinterpreted... it's in plain language. The Lord is pervading everything and there is a union between shiva and shakti (defined: Shiva represents the unmanifest and Shakti the manifest; Shiva the formless and Shakti the formed; Shiva consciousness and Shakti energy, not only in the cosmos as a whole but in each and every individual) and then it goes further to say consciousness and matter.

    The reason that one line hit me with awe, is because there are glimpses now in science that prove there is a definite connection between consciousness and matter. Some scientists even go as far to say that consciousness creates matter and not the other way around. This is huge... and not widely accepted yet. There are skeptics but many physicists are scared by what is known as 'The Measurement Problem' This is when the outcome of an experiment in quantum physics, is changed simply by having a conscious observer.

    The most well known examples of this are two experiments I can think off hand:

    The double slit experiment where electrons fired at a screen with two slits behaved as a particle when observed and went through either the left or right slit as expected, however when there was no conscious observer, the electrons fired at the screen behaved as a wave instead, producing an interference pattern on the back, as if that single electron had gone through BOTH slits simultaneously. This is HUGE because it shows us that subatomic particles do not manifest without a conscious observer! This is the basis of our entire Universe! Since our brains are made of these same electrons and quarks etc. That means there had to be a conscious observer even to manifest our brains in the first place. It puts into question the whole idea of human consciousness simply being an emergent property due to the complexity of the brain! It also suggests that we co-create reality (have the divine within us).

    The second experiment I can think of that agrees with this idea of consciousness affecting matter is Masaru Emoto's water experiments where he flash froze drops of water and then looked at the crystalline structure under a microscope. With some of the samples, he consciously thought of feelings such as hate, greed etc directed at those samples, and others he projected feelings of love. The difference in the ice crystals were amazing! The ones that were subjected to feelings of hate, had broken structures, discolouration, and were not uniform. Those however which had feelings of love projected, had beautiful crystalline structures.

    I had known about both of the above prior to reading that line in Guru Granth Sahib Ji for the first time, so it quite literally gave me goose bumps. I can't think of any other way to interpret that line since it plainly says 'union between shiva and shakti, consciousness and matter' I can't see any way to misinterpret it!

    So I am also one of those who are guilty of attributing scientific discovery to things already written in Gurbani. The fact that was written long before these ideas ever entered modern physics, is proof to me that it was divine knowledge.

    The overall article, I posted because whether or not it's author is true (though I did find it online on a site where it was supposedly posted by the original author, Dr. Janet Lant) I posted it because it does outline the many positive things about Sikhi! Also, her "reasons" were very close to mine! (frustration with Christianity, treatment and equality of women, and the fact that it does not go against science). I agree with Blazin Sikh, that regardless of the Author's authenticity, it's an excellent article!
     
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  13. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Akaha ji

    The tuk, taken out of the shabad, cannot be correctly understood.

    "ਜਹ ਦੇਖਾ ਤਹ ਰਵਿ ਰਹੇ ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤੀ ਕਾ ਮੇਲੁ ॥
    Jah ḏekẖā ṯah rav rahe siv sakṯī kā mel.
    Wherever I look, I see the Lord pervading there, in the union of Shiva and Shakti, of consciousness and matter.

    The meaning of the shabad casts a completely different light on the stanza you have chosen. See the full shabad in my next post.

    Therefore, I cannot agree with the rest of what you say. But thank you for taking the time to post such a detailed reply. Guru ji is not saying that consciousness, applied with deliberate human intention, can change matter. The tuk is not support for scientific experiments such as you have described. All-the-more it worries me when individuals do pick tuks to give credibility to something they themselves want to be true.

    Emoto was not a trained scientist and criticism of his work has been scathing in the scientific community. Does Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji support the scientific merits of both Emoto and his critics, who consider his work fake science? His results cannot be replicated and he makes the classic error of trying to "prove" when science itself is based on "disproving" or ruling out explanations in a systematic way.

    From Castelton State University. http://is-masaru-emoto-for-real.com/
     
    #12 spnadmin, Jan 14, 2013
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  14. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    The full shabad, on Ang 21. The rehao line giving us the context for understanding the meaning of the tuk. This shabad is not about how consciousness changes matter, it is about how and why we can change our own consciousness. The shabad does not give support to science; it is about finding a spiritual identity, so that we can extinguish pain.

    ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥
    Sirīrāg mėhlā 1.
    Sri Rag, First Guru.


    ਮਰਣੈ ਕੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਨਹੀ ਜੀਵਣ ਕੀ ਨਹੀ ਆਸ ॥
    Marṇai kī cẖinṯā nahī jīvaṇ kī nahī ās.
    I have no anxiety regarding fear of death nor any hope (craving) for life.


    ਤੂ ਸਰਬ ਜੀਆ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਾਲਹੀ ਲੇਖੈ ਸਾਸ ਗਿਰਾਸ ॥
    Ŧū sarab jī▫ā parṯipālahī lekẖai sās girās.
    Thou cherisheth all the beings (O Lord!) In account are the breathings and morseles of all.


    ਅੰਤਰਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਤੂ ਵਸਹਿ ਜਿਉ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਿਉ ਨਿਰਜਾਸਿ ॥੧॥
    Anṯar gurmukẖ ṯū vasėh ji▫o bẖāvai ṯi▫o nirjās. ||1||
    Through the Guru Thou abidest within the heart and as Thou willest so dost Thou decide.


    ਜੀਅਰੇ ਰਾਮ ਜਪਤ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨੁ ॥
    Jī▫are rām japaṯ man mān.
    O my Soul! by meditating on the Omnipresent Lord the mind is propitiated.1


    ਅੰਤਰਿ ਲਾਗੀ ਜਲਿ ਬੁਝੀ ਪਾਇਆ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    Anṯar lāgī jal bujẖī pā▫i▫ā gurmukẖ gi▫ān. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    By Guru's instruction Divine knowledge is obtained and the fire raging within is extinguished. Pause.

    ਅੰਤਰ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲੀਐ ਸੰਕ ਉਤਾਰਿ ॥
    Anṯar kī gaṯ jāṇī▫ai gur milī▫ai sank uṯār.
    Cast away thy doubt, meet the Guru and thou shalt know the condition of the inner-self.


    ਮੁਇਆ ਜਿਤੁ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਈਐ ਤਿਤੁ ਜੀਵਦਿਆ ਮਰੁ ਮਾਰਿ ॥
    Mu▫i▫ā jiṯ gẖar jā▫ī▫ai ṯiṯ jīvḏi▫ā mar mār.
    Whilst alive annihilate thine evil inclinations for that House where thou hast to reach after death.


    ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦਿ ਸੁਹਾਵਣੇ ਪਾਈਐ ਗੁਰ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥੨॥
    Anhaḏ sabaḏ suhāvaṇe pā▫ī▫ai gur vīcẖār. ||2||
    The fascinating celestial strain is obtained through the discerning wisdom imparted by the Guru.


    ਅਨਹਦ ਬਾਣੀ ਪਾਈਐ ਤਹ ਹਉਮੈ ਹੋਇ ਬਿਨਾਸੁ ॥
    Anhaḏ baṇī pā▫ī▫ai ṯah ha▫umai ho▫e binās.
    Through Gurbani, that unbeaten melody is procured and there with egotism is annulled.


    ਸਤਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵੇ ਆਪਣਾ ਹਉ ਸਦ ਕੁਰਬਾਣੈ ਤਾਸੁ ॥
    Saṯgur seve āpṇā ha▫o saḏ kurbāṇai ṯās.
    I am ever a sacrifice unto him who serves his True Guru.


    ਖੜਿ ਦਰਗਹ ਪੈਨਾਈਐ ਮੁਖਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ॥੩॥
    Kẖaṛ ḏargėh painā▫ī▫ai mukẖ har nām nivās. ||3||
    He within whose mouth God's Name abides, is taken to God's Court and is dressed (with the robe of honour).


    ਜਹ ਦੇਖਾ ਤਹ ਰਵਿ ਰਹੇ ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤੀ ਕਾ ਮੇਲੁ ॥
    Jah ḏekẖā ṯah rav rahe siv sakṯī kā mel.
    In the universe the union of sensitiveness and stupefaction wherever I see, I find God pervading there.


    ਤ੍ਰਿਹੁ ਗੁਣ ਬੰਧੀ ਦੇਹੁਰੀ ਜੋ ਆਇਆ ਜਗਿ ਸੋ ਖੇਲੁ ॥
    Ŧarihu guṇ banḏẖī ḏehurī jo ā▫i▫ā jag so kẖel.
    The body is bound down by three dispositions. Who-so-ever comes in this world he plays (subject to their hint).


    ਵਿਜੋਗੀ ਦੁਖਿ ਵਿਛੁੜੇ ਮਨਮੁਖਿ ਲਹਹਿ ਨ ਮੇਲੁ ॥੪॥
    vijogī ḏukẖ vicẖẖuṛe manmukẖ lahėh na mel. ||4||
    The separatists part way with the Lord and are in anguish. Those self-willed obtain not union (with Him).


    ਮਨੁ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ਘਰਿ ਵਸੈ ਸਚ ਭੈ ਰਾਤਾ ਹੋਇ ॥
    Man bairāgī gẖar vasai sacẖ bẖai rāṯā ho▫e.
    Becoming desire-free, if the mind abides in home and is dyed red in the fear of the True Lord,


    ਗਿਆਨ ਮਹਾਰਸੁ ਭੋਗਵੈ ਬਾਹੁੜਿ ਭੂਖ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥
    Gi▫ān mahāras bẖogvai bāhuṛ bẖūkẖ na ho▫e.
    it shall then enjoy the Supreme Nectar of Divine Knowledge and shall not feel hunger again.


    ਨਾਨਕ ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਰਿ ਮਿਲੁ ਭੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਦੁਖੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥੫॥੧੮॥
    Nānak ih man mār mil bẖī fir ḏukẖ na ho▫e. ||5||18||
    Nanak, subdue this mind and meet the Lord, thus thou shalt suffer agony no more.

    My understanding is this.


    Through the rehao we find the motivation:

    ਅੰਤਰਿ ਲਾਗੀ ਜਲਿ ਬੁਝੀ ਪਾਇਆ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    Anṯar lāgī jal bujẖī pā▫i▫ā gurmukẖ gi▫ān. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    By Guru's instruction Divine knowledge is obtained and the fire raging within is extinguished. Pause.


    Why must the raging fire be extinguished?

    ਨਾਨਕ ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਰਿ ਮਿਲੁ ਭੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਦੁਖੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥੫॥੧੮॥ ५॥१८॥
    Nānak ih man mār mil bẖī fir ḏukẖ na ho▫e. ||5||18||
    Nanak, subdue this mind and meet the Lord, thus thou shalt suffer agony no more.


    Manmohan Singh also giving a different meaning to the pangatee of Shiva (siv) and Shakti (sakti)

    ਜਹ ਦੇਖਾ ਤਹ ਰਵਿ ਰਹੇ ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤੀ ਕਾ ਮੇਲੁ ॥
    Jah ḏekẖā ṯah rav rahe siv sakṯī kā mel.
    In the universe the union of sensitiveness and stupefaction wherever I see, I find God pervading there.


    Wherever and whenever that happens the mind is trapped in the gunas, the qualities of maya.

    ਤ੍ਰਿਹੁ ਗੁਣ ਬੰਧੀ ਦੇਹੁਰੀ ਜੋ ਆਇਆ ਜਗਿ ਸੋ ਖੇਲੁ ॥
    Ŧarihu guṇ banḏẖī ḏehurī jo ā▫i▫ā jag so kẖel.
    The body is bound down by three dispositions. Who-so-ever comes in this world he plays (subject to their hint).
     
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  15. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    WWW ji

    Please make another try. If you are going to say that the writer is an Indian and a Muslim, then you have to be specific. Otherwise it is no more than negativity. I don't myself see anything to go with the idea that she is a fake. She has strongly held views and they read as if they are based on principles that she holds fast to. I don't agree with about half of what she says, but calling her a fake is out of bounds without any examples or details.
     
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  16. aristotle

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    Fake or authentic, this article does shed some serious light on the Sikh faith. Why not weigh it on merit, on the points it raises, rather than determining its authenticity.
     
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  17. WWW

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    Who said she was muslim? WTH? Can anyone find any proof that she even exists?

    Nothing about what she wrote suggest she is a doctor, to me her writing style sounds indian, thats all I was saying. The title, and the overall tone of the paper, both emphasize the fact that she IS a doctor, as if that makes her conversion more valid... authors point not mine.
     
  18. spnadmin

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    WWW ji

    Anything your read and anyone who writes on the Internet can be a fake, even you. And without doing research it is impossible to know. No more on the fake thing. Thanks.
     
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  19. gur_meet

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    "ਜਹ ਦੇਖਾ ਤਹ ਰਵਿ ਰਹੇ ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤੀ ਕਾ ਮੇਲੁ ॥
    Jah ḏekẖā ṯah rav rahe siv sakṯī kā mel.

    Wherever I look, I see the Lord pervading there, in the union of Shiva and Shakti, of consciousness(?) and matter."
    - Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji p.21

    In the above Tuk there is reference to the union of Shiva - meaning what is subject to destruction or death and Shakti - meaning the power which is not visible or apparent .
    What is seen around is the material world ( subject to destruction). But the vision of one imbued in naam sees the karta in the creation .The karta invisibly pervades within the creation .
    This Tuk is also a guide as to how the spiritual vision of sikh should be .

    WJKK WJKF
     
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  20. Harkiran Kaur

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    Your description still 'agrees' with quantum physics, since the material world is basically just energy existing at a very slow virbation, and that matter is temporary, but the underlying energy (now thought to be consciousness - at the universal field level) will always exist. And since quantum physics is showing that consciousness actually affects matter, it pervades all of it.

    I am not saying that line was written AS science, to be a scientific teaching, just that it agrees with science!



     
  21. gur_meet

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    Akasha ji
    I agree with what you say.

    Gurbani states the truth and there are directions as to how to perceive the truth.
    This tuk has truth and direction both as to how to change perception so that Waheguruji is seen and felt to be pervading in the creation.

    Vichar is part of simran. When we do vichar we contemplate. In our dhyan there are thoughts of sat. Here the Vichar of a sikh with non scientific background would be to move towards perception of the material world in an intuitive way.

    The acceptance of reality in the person with logical or scientific bent of mind would be different. The experiments like the one described in above posts act as anchors in shifting of belief.To think of Matter as not matter but having consciousness connection is one way to shake our mind's beliefs . When we do vichar further the reality would go even further as waheguruji is also not consciousness as we know it.

    The common perception of the people is that material world is matter and they do not stick to the view that God is in every thing ,in all the objects. A table is a table for them and a chair a chair. Sikh has to see the sacha pervading everywhere and in everything.


    Wjkk Wjkf
     
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