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Does Akaal Forgive?

Discussion in 'Questions and Answers' started by Ishna, Mar 11, 2016.

  1. Ishna

    Ishna
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    Sat Sri Akaal Sangat Jio

    So in another thread, a member is seeking forgiveness from Akaal Sahib (for what, we do not know). In that same thread, another member suggested that Akaal Sahib / Ik Onkar does not forgive.

    So I'm wondering about this shabad which starts on panna 157 (and the many others) that call Akaal Sahib the Forgiver:

    ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ ਗੁਆਰੇਰੀ
    Rāg ga▫oṛī gu▫ārerī.
    Raag Gauree Gwaarayree:

    ਮਹਲਾ ਚਉਪਦੇ
    Mėhlā 3 cẖa▫upḏe.
    Third Mehl, Chau-Padas:

    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
    Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
    One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

    ਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਹਰਿ ਮੇਲਾ ਹੋਈ
    Gur mili▫ai har melā ho▫ī.
    Meeting the Guru, we meet the Lord.

    ਆਪੇ ਮੇਲਿ ਮਿਲਾਵੈ ਸੋਈ
    Āpe mel milāvai so▫ī.
    He Himself unites us in His Union.

    ਮੇਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸਭ ਬਿਧਿ ਆਪੇ ਜਾਣੈ
    Merā parabẖ sabẖ biḏẖ āpe jāṇai.
    My God knows all His Own Ways.

    ਹੁਕਮੇ ਮੇਲੇ ਸਬਦਿ ਪਛਾਣੈ ॥੧॥
    Hukme mele sabaḏ pacẖẖāṇai. ||1||
    By the Hukam of His Command, He unites those who recognize the Word of the Shabad. ||1||

    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਭਇ ਭ੍ਰਮੁ ਭਉ ਜਾਇ
    Saṯgur kai bẖa▫e bẖaram bẖa▫o jā▫e.
    By the Fear of the True Guru, doubt and fear are dispelled.

    ਭੈ ਰਾਚੈ ਸਚ ਰੰਗਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    Bẖai rācẖai sacẖ rang samā▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    Imbued with His Fear, we are absorbed in the Love of the True One. ||1||Pause||

    ਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਹਰਿ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਸੁਭਾਇ
    Gur mili▫ai har man vasai subẖā▫e.
    Meeting the Guru, the Lord naturally dwells within the mind.

    ਮੇਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਭਾਰਾ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਨਹੀ ਪਾਇ
    Merā parabẖ bẖārā kīmaṯ nahī pā▫e.
    My God is Great and Almighty; His value cannot be estimated.

    ਸਬਦਿ ਸਾਲਾਹੈ ਅੰਤੁ ਪਾਰਾਵਾਰੁ
    Sabaḏ salāhai anṯ na pārāvār.
    Through the Shabad, I praise Him; He has no end or limitations.

    ਮੇਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਬਖਸੇ ਬਖਸਣਹਾਰੁ ॥੨॥
    Merā parabẖ bakẖse bakẖsaṇhār. ||2||
    My God is the Forgiver. I pray that He may forgive me. ||2||


    ਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਸਭ ਮਤਿ ਬੁਧਿ ਹੋਇ
    Gur mili▫ai sabẖ maṯ buḏẖ ho▫e.
    Meeting the Guru, all wisdom and understanding are obtained.

    ਮਨਿ ਨਿਰਮਲਿ ਵਸੈ ਸਚੁ ਸੋਇ
    Man nirmal vasai sacẖ so▫e.
    The mind becomes pure, when the True Lord dwells within.

    ਸਾਚਿ ਵਸਿਐ ਸਾਚੀ ਸਭ ਕਾਰ
    Sācẖ vasi▫ai sācẖī sabẖ kār.
    When one dwells in Truth, all actions become true.

    ਊਤਮ ਕਰਣੀ ਸਬਦ ਬੀਚਾਰ ॥੩॥
    Ūṯam karṇī sabaḏ bīcẖār. ||3||
    The ultimate action is to contemplate the Word of the Shabad. ||3||

    ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਸਾਚੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਹੋਇ
    Gur ṯe sācẖī sevā ho▫e.
    Through the Guru, true service is performed.

    ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ਕੋਇ
    Gurmukẖ nām pacẖẖāṇai ko▫e.
    How rare is that Gurmukh who recognizes the Naam, the Name of the Lord.

    ਜੀਵੈ ਦਾਤਾ ਦੇਵਣਹਾਰੁ
    Jīvai ḏāṯā ḏevaṇhār.
    The Giver, the Great Giver, lives forever.

    ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੇ ਲਗੈ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥੪॥੧॥੨੧॥
    Nānak har nāme lagai pi▫ār. ||4||1||21||
    Nanak enshrines love for the Name of the Lord. ||4||1||21||
    Thanks
     
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  3. Sherdil

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    Bakhse = To bless
    Bakhsanhar = The blesser

    The ultimate blessing is for the Divine unite Himself with us, thus dissipating the illusion of duality. The translator has chosen to use the word "forgive". This still works because it implies forgiveness for our sins. All karma arises from dualistic thinking. Through Divine union, all karma associated with dualistic thinking is negated, i.e. all sins are forgiven.

    The dichotomy between us and Him in this shabadh reflects the mindset of bhakti (devotional worship). All glory is given to the Divine. Through self-negation, only the One remains.

    According to the Hukam, blessings and forgiveness come to pass. All power resides with the One.
     
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  4. ActsOfGod

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    Just out of curiosity, where did you get that phrase, "Akaal Sahib"? Did you read it somewhere or did you coin it yourself?
     
  5. Ishna

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    I think I read it somewhere and liked it. Akaal Sahib. Timeless Master.
     
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  6. ActsOfGod

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    Would be very interested in the reference, if you are able to find it again or recall.

    Thanks
    [AoG]
     
  7. Ishna

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    I think I dwelt on the word "Sahib" in a shabad. I connect strongly to the Akaal description of the Ik Onkar, so I think I put the two together. If I do come across it somewhere else, I'll let you know.
     
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  8. ActsOfGod

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    Just be careful lest you end up like this guy:

    http://www.spiritvoyage.com/mantra/Sat-Siri-Siri-Akal/MAN-000014.aspx

    Doesn't take much to construct meaningless nonsense:

    Sat siree siree akaal, siree akaal mahaa akaal, Mahaa akaal, sat naam, akaal moorat, wahay guroo

    Complete gibberish.

    [AoG]
     
  9. Ishna

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    What does the "mahaa akaal" part mean? Like, what is "mahaa"?

    Apart from that, don't the words just make a pleasant chant? Not that I'm an advocate of random chants, but how is it gibberish.

    Sat Sri Akaal. Sat Naam. Akaal moorat. Waheguru. All familiar terms.
     
  10. ActsOfGod

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    "Yogi Bhajan" IMO was not a spiritually elevated person. He was a master manipulator and a charlatan. He was also spiritually blind, ignorant, and egotistical. He had very limited knowledge of gurmat and Sikh philosophy. Perhaps he was delusional too. Cult leaders tend to be like that.

    Thinking himself to be at par (or greater than) the Sikh Gurus, he began his own brand of Sikhism, making kundalini yoga a central part of his teachings and a requirement for all his followers. In addition to a whole host of other questionable practices, he started doing this nonsensical thing where he would string together a bunch of words from the Sikh lexicon to come up with his own unique "mantra" which he would then instruct his follows to chant.

    I find that practice to be spurious at best, and more likely a sinister attempt at hijacking Sikhism.

    So yes, there is harm in stringing together a bunch of words, all of which are individually familiar to you. This is actually what the "Yogi" was counting on, that people would see the words and say, "Oh, I know those words", and take the bait.

    All these "mantra's" to chant for various things (for healing back pain, to eradicate depression, to generate happy thoughts, to recover from emotions of sadness, etc. etc.) are all anti-Gurmat practices and are veering away from the message that the Sikh Guru's taught and practiced.

    As far as "Mahakal", check it out:

    Mahakal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Use your discerning intellect. See through the fraudsters so that you may stay on the path.

    [AoG]
     
  11. Tejwant Singh

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    Sherdil ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    I beg to disagree with you. The above two words mean to Forgive and Forgiver according to mahan kosh. Here it is:

    SGGS Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary
    ਮਾਫੀ ਦੇਣ ਵਾਲਾ। ਉਦਾਹਰਣ: ਆਪਿ ਛਡਾਏ ਛੁਟੀਐ ਆਪੇ ਬਖਸਣਹਾਰੁ॥ {ਸਿਰੀ ੧, ਅਸ ੧੫, ੨:੩ (62)}। ਹਉ ਪਾਪੀ ਤੂੰ ਬਖਸਣਹਾਰੁ॥ {ਆਸਾ ੧, ੨੪, ੧:੨ (356)}। ਗੁਨਹਾਂ ਬਖਸਣਹਾਰੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਕਮਾਵਹੀ॥ {ਆਸਾ ੧, ੧੬, ੮:੨ (420)}। ਗੁਨਹਾਂ ਬਖਸਣਹਾਰੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਕਮਾਵਹੀ॥ {ਆਸਾ ੧, ਅਸ ੧੬, ੮:੨ (420)}। ਤੁਧੁ ਜੇਵਡੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਕੋ ਨਹ

    Sri Granth: Punjabi Dictionary & Encyclopedia

    Ik Ong Kaar, that is Nirbhau Nirvair as mentioned in Moolmantar can not be anything but a forgiver.
     
  12. Ambarsaria

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    Good posts if I may also put in a word.

    For me in Sikhism, the creator delegates to each Sikh all in the sense of to Act according to the understanding of , "What is and How is".

    If there is understanding within oneself, the concepts of forgive/forgiver and bless/blesser fall to the way side.

    The concepts of forgive/forgiver and bless/blesser come into play only when we lack understanding and are surprised, fearful, happy, in jubilation, etc., at goings on. Then we can conveniently for lack of understanding attribute situations as forgive/forgiver and bless/blesser vis-a-vis the creator. Nothing should surprise a Sikh, perhaps just awe at experiencing "What is and How is".

    Sat Sri Akal.

    PS: We as human beings are by design perhaps lazy. We rather be led than lead ourselves. There is livelihood, fame and fortune to be had by those who take the people on who want to be led. Look around there are Sikh sects and many other religions even structured to operate that way. Big money and big business it is.

    At the very base level living and surviving is not much of a challenge. It only becomes a challenge when our 6' x 4' bed becomes a 3000 square foot house and our sandals become wheels of a car. So our understanding needs to frame the extremes and realities in a manner peaceful and in content and you will find yourself forgiven and blessed ;).
     
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    #11 Ambarsaria, Mar 17, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2016
  13. Sherdil

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    It depends on how the word is used within the context of the line in question.

    Here is the same word ਬਖਸੇ with the connotation of blessing.

    GGS, page 5:

    ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਬਖਸੇ ਸਿਫਤਿ ਸਾਲਾਹ ॥
    जिस नो बखसे सिफति सालाह ॥
    Jis no bakẖse sifaṯ sālāh.
    One who is blessed to sing the Praises

    Whether it is translated as blessing or forgiveness it implies Divine Union. According to the Hukam, the Divine brings us close and unites us with Himself. According to the Hukam the Divine pushes us away. If we are so blessed to receive His glance of grace, then He will unite Himself with us. By doing so, all sins are forgiven and we are "liberated".

    GGS, page 1:

    ਇਕਨਾ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਬਖਸੀਸ ਇਕਿ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਸਦਾ ਭਵਾਈਅਹਿ ॥
    इकना हुकमी बखसीस इकि हुकमी सदा भवाईअहि ॥
    Iknā hukmī bakẖsīs ik hukmī saḏā bẖavā▫ī▫ah.
    Some, by His Command, are blessed and forgiven; others, by His Command, wander aimlessly forever.

    Bakhsis in this context implies liberation, i.e Divine Union.

    Removed from the context of the tukk, as a stand alone word, bakhse is best translated as "to bless".
     
  14. Ambarsaria

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    Sherdil ji thanks for your reply and quoting Gurbani in your replies. I know it takes time and effort versus off the cuff contributions even though I don't mean to minimize anyone's contributions.

    It just occurred to me that sometimes we over complicate the simple or debate where none may be required. Let us understand the common usage of wording that we have been discussing.

    Punjabi(Gurmukhi,Shahmukhi) to English Dictionary:: ACTDPL Punjabi University, Patiala

    1
    ਬਖਸ਼
    [​IMG]
    بخش
    noun, feminine gift, boon, blessing, bestowal, largess; suffix indicating giver, bestower, as in ਸਿਹਤ ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ , salubrious​

    So the core word has multiple meanings and is used much in context.

    I do have a question regarding your assertion about duality, merging. For example you say;

    The ultimate blessing is for the Divine unite Himself with us, thus dissipating the illusion of duality., etc.
    I don't think it is of any relevance. We are never separate and I don't think the other party thinks we are separate. It is simply our lack of understanding that makes us believe or think it that way and does not make it so.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  15. Sherdil

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    Yes ji, I agree wholeheartedly. This is why I have described it as the illusion of duality. This illusion is produced by the mind. It afflicts us all. Through Bhakti however, we make the Divine appear grand and ourselves miniscule and of little importance in comparison. What can the slave do beyond the Master's will? This is part of the technique, if you will, of breaking that shackles of Haumai. Become the dust at the lotus feet of the Divine. When you are nothing, then only the One will remain.

    An ode to Tejwant Singh ji's Mahan Kosh referral:

     
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  16. Harry Haller

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    Does Akal Sahib know what it feels like to forgive?

    I doubt it, I would imagine that Akal Sahib is way way beyond such pointless and human emotions.
     
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  17. Sherdil

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    Who is there to forgive in the first place? All is One. There is no other.

    No one has the power to defy the One. Nothing happens outside of the Hukam. Nothing happens that the Divine didn't will to happen, so what is there to forgive?

    The technique of Bhakti differs from the reality of what Gurbani is saying.
     
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  18. Tejwant Singh

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    "Forgiveness is in the mind of the forgiver, hence needs no "acceptance"".
     
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  19. swarn bains

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    sorry to say, but i am ignorant what is akaal sahib
     
  20. Ishna

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    Okay, point taken. I will refrain from using this term in future.

    How about I just say, "the Sat". Does the Sat Forgive?

    If this is not acceptable either, may the sangat kindly instruct me as to what the preferred term is for me to use to refer to That which is described by the Mool Mantar.

    Thanks
     
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  21. Tejwant Singh

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    Personally, Akaal Sahib is a beautiful way to describe the indescribable.
     
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