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Do you believe Anna Movement will effect change in the current political system in India?

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by dilgeer, Nov 14, 2011.

  1. dilgeer

    dilgeer
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    Sat Sri Akal ji.

    Whats your view on this ? There are fanatic views spread by Congress people on TV that this is a ploy of RSS or BJP to destabilize the government. The Law that is being asked for by Anna team is on the lines of ICAC in Hong Kong.

    It has transformed that country by putting corrupt people behind bars. Are we that Sick minded people that believe that any person working for no gains must have some hidden agenda ? That is said to be a Servant Attitude, since we have been serving British for so long that it has creeped into our mentality.
     
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  3. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Re: Do you believe Anna Movement would effect change in current Political System in India


    Dilgeer ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    What odds do you give to this demand by Anna to become the law of the land and how long will it take?

    If it is passed, is there a recourse to the Supreme court by those who oppose it?

    Thanks & regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
  4. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
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    Re: Do you believe Anna Movement would effect change in current Political System in India

    The laws are all there. The hard problem is enforcing people to follow the laws. Asking everyone they are supposed to do what they have to do. By just having a law, that laws should be implemented perfectly, is a fallacy in itself.
     
  5. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
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    Re: Do you believe Anna Movement would effect change in current Political System in India

    I suggest that anyone seen taking bribe should be shot dead. I know that is draconian. But pass the law. I know it will not be passed. But I believe it would be vEry effective. Trust me.
     
  6. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Re: Do you believe Anna Movement would effect change in current Political System in India

    GIVER and TAKER...BOTH should be SHOT DEAD. Thats FAIR.
    WHY should the Giver escape ?? NO supply no demand...

    2. what guarantee that such a LAW will be ENFORCED ?? ha ha..just like the other thousand and one laws that read like the Thousand and One Arabian Nights Tales...(Fairy Tales enjoyment sake)
     
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  7. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Re: Do you believe Anna Movement would effect change in current Political System in India

    any guesses on what will be the population of INDIA after ALL the Bribe Givers and Takers have been SHOT DEAD ?? LOL.............it will be a LONELY PLACE !!!
     
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  8. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
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    Re: Do you believe Anna Movement would effect change in current Political System in India

    Ji Gyani ji, it will also solve India's population problem!

    And people are so fed up with corruption, they might execute the laws themselves :)
     
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  9. dilgeer

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    Re: Do you believe Anna Movement would effect change in current Political System in India

    SSA Tejwant Singh Ji.

    What made you say Anna wants to be Law of the Land ? Well, Right to Information(RTI) Law took a fight of 10 Years and 8 Fasts unto death by Anna in Maharashtra and then In Delhi, in absence of Media pressure and widespread campaign. Its anybody's guess how much time it will take to pass. More importantly, We have to say how much strong bill is passed. Bcoz, it is just going to be suicide for Congress. Cases from the times of Nehru would be taken up and those who have airports and statues in their names would be politically finished.

    In terms of recourse, Judicial system is too slow to respond as of now. There are provision to declare a particular law as hurting fundamental right or being Unconstitutional ?

    I believe you are saying as first hand information(as having studied those laws) or is it bcoz our politicians or popular tv channels are saying this ? If either of two exists, then I shall put a few words here, affirming that I am no expert on this but have been exploring of late on this. To curb corruption, Our law Makers have different agencies, starting with Anti-corruption section of the concerned department of which the corrupt officer is employee, Central Vigilance commision, CAG, CBI anti-corruption Wing. Now, Lets Say, A police officer s of current law commits corruption, some officer reports it, Police department itself wont take any actions on it rather settle the issue some sort of monetary of political influence. If it gets through due to media pressure or like, It shall be investigated by CBI anti-corruption wing, which is devil's advocate as has been seen of late. If you demand independent enquiry, Central Vigilance Commission(CVC) would do it but its report is considered only advisory and not binding. If officer is found to be corrupt by CVC, Police dept in our case would tell CVC, "Thanks, we would take appropriate action". From CBI, you cannot get anyone to have a fairer enquiry. Rather, it is used for political vendetta or to curb movements like Anna's. As they did for Kiran Bedi, they sent people to booking agents and took history of last 4 years and posted it anonymously to Indian Express.


    So Jist of the matter is that in Proposed JanLokpal, we can get an independent enquiry without need of anyone's approval and whistleblower would be kept anonymous, as many as 13-14 activists have been killed over past 1-2 years working on RTI.

    I guess all those who have replied are not hopeful of the movement and would like to see from the side and would rather like to go with the current system. It seems to be so.
     
  10. prakash.s.bagga

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    Re: Do you believe Anna Movement would effect change in current Political System in India

    There is one conspicuous result of Anna Hazare Movement that people got stirred in mind about Corruption. I am sure this is going to yield some good results but it may take a pretty long time.It would be better to wait till next general elections.There are always some good people at the helm of affairs and as law of nature nothing goes for ever the things would definitely change.
    Corruption is a very deep rooted problem related to past history of the politics of this area and no one should expect it to go at once in a present scenerio of democratic set up of India.
    Let us always hope for the best and be positive.It is obvious that any such movement which is connected with the finacial interests will be subjected to derailment by the self interested persons.And its true direction will always remain under attack.But we should be interested in final resuts.

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
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  11. dilgeer

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    Re: Do you believe Anna Movement would effect change in current Political System in India

    Bagga Ji, Cheers to your opinion.

    Sarcastic views of beheading or cutting heads etc of people as said earlier here) involved in corruption is just hypothetical and not realistic in our country but it does come out of frustration, understandably. We can let the steam out that way. To gauge the truth of the movement, just check out the life of Anna, and his team. Also, just see the amount of dirt being thrown at them, and none has been proved. Every sort being done to not talk about the Lokpal or bring in Weak Lokpal. Well, Hopes are high. After Long periods of mismanagement and slavery at hands of these corrupt people, just rightful people and movement just seems fake, But Pray to God, it reaches the Climax. Some states have already implemented the same like Uttrakhand. SO, Change is on and it is certainly not fake.
     
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  12. prakash.s.bagga

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    Re: Do you believe Anna Movement would effect change in current Political System in India

    Fortunately I got the opportunity to work in GoVernment,Semi Government,Private organisations and now own business so I am well familiar with this problem of Corruption.I know How difficult it can be for any person who is required to face nearly forty Gov Departments every year for continuity of his business.
    There are in fact different levels of corruption and quantum of corruption is also level dependent.But Broadly the major corruptions are of Political and Administrative level.It is the SYSTEM not the PEOPLE that promotes corruption.I personally feel no one would be interested in GIVING the bribe unless the GIVER is entrapped by the SYSTEM to do so.We can notice that people in operation of the SYSTEM would always put a blame for bribe on the GIVER since this is the easiest scapegoat for a person taking the bribe.

    Now I think the people have become aware where the actual problem or cause of corruption lies .That is why some Governments are taking initiative for administrative amendments.However according to me there are two administrative tools that promote corruption such as "Sufficient reason to believe" and Discretionary powers of Officers to decide,are not elliminated corrupition would be difficult to elliminate.
    At present whatever changes are being done these changes would help in mitigating the Corruption.
    At last we should bear in mind afterall HABITS ARE HARD TO dIE.Come what may.

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
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  13. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Re: Do you believe Anna Movement would effect change in current Political System in India

    Isnt the RTI also in Punjab ? I thought i did meet someone who worked on RTI ? am not sure....but he was complaining that any To.m. Dic.k. and Harr.y. could just pay a few RS and demand any file running into hundreds of pages photocopied at Govt expense...RIGHT TO INFORMATION....but certain people like Makkar badal seem to be EXEMPT anyway...:interestedsingh:
     
  14. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
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    Re: Do you believe Anna Movement would effect change in current Political System in India

    Probably no one wants to challenge Badal's authority such that their life is gone before the information is out!
     
  15. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Re: Do you believe Anna Movement would effect change in current Political System in India

    This Morning when Advani and GANG were bestowed SIROPAS in Darbar sahib...( it felt like HITLER had been honoured in Auswitchz ..by JEWS !!).....the Jathedar TILTED the entire HUKMNAMAH for the day towards BADAL and how he was Messiah for Sikhs and Punjab heaven sent like Akal Purakh to Prehlaad....!!! 7.30 - 8-45 am....had no idea someone could stoop SO LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW !!
     
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  16. Kanwaljit Singh

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  17. dilgeer

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    Re: Do you believe Anna Movement would effect change in current Political System in India

    Sir, Amazed to see your reply. First person I have come across who calls people empowered by RTI ( it ensures transparency of government ) as To.m D.ck and har.ry. SARCASTIC. Similar law is in USA called Freedom of information act, Is it again for To..m...... ??

    Sounds like our arrogant Politicians who are under scanner now owing to this superb law.. Unreasoned comment about "Govt expense".. Hasn't "few RS" put them under surveillance and on trial on cases like Illegal Mining Scam, Commonwealth Games, Adarsh Scam and many more etc. ? Manpreet Badal had put a RTI few weeks ago to demand the expenses incurred on caravan of Cars in Sukhbir's KAFILA. Didn't you happen to come across the News ? It does have control over Badals and even their bosses. Just that So-called leaders in Punjab are as short-sighted, unreasoned and narrow-minded as I have seen few people around here in this forum. NO OFFENSES. Moreover, they are less educated, hungry for Power and chaudhar, thus, these dwarfs cannot see above level of their heads. Even SGPC must come under such a law, which would bring transparency and accountability to the Sangat, Bcoz in Sikh Kaum, SANGAT is supreme and even our Guru gives Sangat high reputation.

    Singh Saab, Please revisit your views on this issue. My humble request.

    Bhull Chukk Muaff.
     
  18. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Re: Do you believe Anna Movement would effect change in current Political System in India

    Dilgeer Saab Jio....I was "quoting" someone who works at the RTI Office in Kapurthala....not my views. Apologies if misunderstood.
     
  19. dilgeer

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    Re: Do you believe Anna Movement would effect change in current Political System in India

    Satkaryog Gyani Ji,

    Your apologies not accepted. You are our Elder, you cannot apologize.

    Meri Bhull Chukk Muaff.
     
  20. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    Re: Do you believe Anna Movement would effect change in current Political System in India

    Indian politics need major overhauling. Indian administrative services should also be revamped and should be remodeled so that so called public servant really becomes servants and not Masters of the ordinary people who have to face corruption almost on daily basis. Indian Bureaucracy has an inflated ego, may be, English Legacy. IAS is one of the other rogue element in our system. Bureaucrats have got many immunities for the wrongs done by them as an acts done in 'public good/interest'
    For any healthy system there has to be separation of power between Parliament, administration and judiciary. However, none can deny that Parliament is supreme but what is to be done when the parliamentarians or Senators are corrupt and Vagabonds. The system becomes hollow when the Administration follow the footsteps of politicians and the thin veil of separation of power is shared equally by the Parliament along with the high headed Administrative officer who are virtual rulers of states.
    Anna movement has brought these issues in forefront and effects of the movements are visible in many Government departments even though no Formal Lokpal has been passed. India is also following the model of Hongkong. It is the only way left to Mal-administration, corrupt politicians and the problems of Black money the price of which has to be paid by ordinary citizen. Whichever party comes to power shall be required to pass this Bill and that shall be for public good.
    At this point of time, It is irrelevant if BJP or RSS comes to power. May be there is a hidden agenda, I do not know. But national interest is supreme than the interest of particular caste and creed. Sikhs, in India, are also citizens of India besides being sikhs.
    Regarding Tejwant ji's query about jurisdiction of Supreme Court, I have to state that normally , as a rule, the jurisdiction of civvil courts is not restricted. Even the those found guilty and charge sheeted under POTA and TADA had right to make an appeal to Supreme Court or challenge the verdict of the agencies investigating the case.I think a fine reading of the bill shall clarify the doubts. I have yet to study the Bill as it is yet to be approved by the standing committee of Parliament. It is then we can see the jurisdiction of Courts.
    These are personal thoughts.

    Kudos to Anna who has taken the Government of India almost singly and has made it bow..!!
     
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    #19 Taranjeet singh, Nov 16, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2011

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