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Hinduism Do Animals have a Soul? Why do many Sikhs eat Meat?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by amarjit singh bamrah, Jan 19, 2012.

  1. amarjit singh bamrah

    amarjit singh bamrah
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    Do animals have a soul?

    What is your opinion?

    Why do many sikhs eat meat?

    I have read a lovely book by Sardar Joginder Singh Talwara
    which states extract from Gurbani where eating Meat
    is prohibited. If you want a copy of this in English or Punjabi
    I have this in PDF form and I can e mail this
    to you.

    Animals have feelings they have the same organs we have
    they have compassion.

    So why do many Sikhs eat Meat?
    Please tell me.



    Amarjit
     
    #1 amarjit singh bamrah, Jan 19, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 19, 2012
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  3. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    #2 Ambarsaria, Jan 19, 2012
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  4. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Re: DO ANIMALS HAVE A SOUL Why do many Sikhs eat meat?

    Please do compare ALL the Shabads (Given in FULL in the SPN Abstract) and the shorter versions given by Talwara Sahib.....and make up your mind about what Gurbani really means and says Jio.

    Its a rule of thumb to always take the ENTIRE FULL SHABAD to get the real menaing/message of Guru Ji...single or two lines/panktees taken out of context can and do always give the wrong impression..either on purpose to serve the personal beleifs or agenda of the quoter...or inadvertantly/mistakenly/without adequate knowledge of Gurbani.

    Only certain Very CLEAR and distinct assertions like for example..HAAK PRAYA NANAKA...us SOOR..us GAYEH can stand ALONE. Notice that SUCH assertions are almost always IGNORED/not stressed by most Parcharaks/writers..BECAUSE this is a very very INCONVENIENT and unpalatable TRUTH - what we call KAURRA SACH of Guru ji..which we DONT WANT TO FOLLOW becasue it doesnt suit us...we all just LOVE Praya Haak..grabbing others Haak/propeties/wealth/jobs etc...so we IGNORE such ONE LINER TRUTHS that stand out like SORE THUMBS to point us in the DIRECTION we dont wnat to go !!! In all my 60 years of going to Gurdwaras, huge Kirtan darbars, kathas of Maskeen Parwana etc etc I havent yet heard even once a parcharak touch on THIS "Praya haak" concept...about 1% touch on ALCOHOL/partying/bhanggrraing/dowry/bride burning/female foetus killing etc..BUT the remaining 95% always mention "MEAT EATING IS BAD for you"....be vegetarian blah blah blah...when the SGGS on Page 15 Sri raag Mahalla PEHLA clearly LISTS Maas as LAST on a List of Things to AVOID IN EXCESS !!!

    Enjoy your stay here at SPN ...and feel welcome Jios...we are all learners and equals...all share our joys and sorrows...Sukh Dukh...:happymunda:
     
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  5. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Re: DO ANIMALS HAVE A SOUL Why do many Sikhs eat meat?

    Amarjit Singh ji,
    Please send me the PDF files in Punjabi and English of Talwara Jis book at this address:
    jsarshi@Gmail.com. Thanks Ji.
     
  6. BaljinderS

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    Re: DO ANIMALS HAVE A SOUL Why do many Sikhs eat meat?

    Veer Ji I couldn't agree with you more!!! All this Brahmin preaching is making Sikhs weak everyday. If meat eating is so bad for then don't use any animal products and lets see how long you last.

    If meat eating was such a sin then all Muslims,Christians,Jews etc etc are all sinners... lets say Sikhism forbids meat and its biggest sin ever then why is there Gurbani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which is from Muslims etc???? Have a look at the Sikh history, Sikhs have always eaten meat.. Akali Phula Singh (was he not a Sikh)???

    Sikh Rehat Merada doesn't forbid you from eating meat and Sikh Rehat Merada wasn't set in a day. I know allot of Sikhs who are well versed in Sikhi eat meat.

    People should stop misusing gurbani to prove a point. What is this authors background? How many year has he spent studying Sikhi? Has this book been given the green light by all Sikhs scholars?? I guess not..
     
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  7. Kanwaljit Singh

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    Re: DO ANIMALS HAVE A SOUL Why do many Sikhs eat meat?


    I gave up meat with a whole lot of friends when we took Amrit together in Hyderabad. Till now my parents say its OK to eat meat, but the way they sound, it feels they 'know' Amritdharis don't eat meat. Anyway I have wanted to share this funny thing about the whole issue:

    One of the people I knew there in Hyderabad (following Hazoori maryada) was born in a family of butchers. Yes meat cutting and selling was the family business. Later in life, he got closer to Gurbani. And he gave up the business. He opened a printing shop. He also gave up eating meat.

    For me that is an example which stands out in a way. But of course nothing is Higher than Truth and Truthful living.
     
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  8. Kanwaljit Singh

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    Re: DO ANIMALS HAVE A SOUL Why do many Sikhs eat meat?

    Its funny how growing up, I never liked wearing belt, avoided leather shoes and always picked up those fake leather wallets :D

    Only in recent years, I have felt some kind of connection in that. But anyway, before leaving my dad took me to a store to buy a new wallet, they had no fake ones. So currently on my person, I do have a genuine leather item. Ah I hope no animals were killed in manufacturing my laptop and making this post!
     
  9. amarjit singh bamrah

    amarjit singh bamrah
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    Re: DO ANIMALS HAVE A SOUL Why do many Sikhs eat meat?

    I have been a Vegan for the last 15 years as I started to feeel the compassions from the Animals towards us Humans.
    I have lasted over 15 years now without any problems thanks to
    Waheguru and his Blessings on me.
    One point we must remember is in our Gurbani its clearly mentioned that we evolve from Animals into a Human.
    If we have evolved from an Animal into a Human then the same soul also
    existed in our previous incarnation as an animal.

    amarjit
     
  10. dalbirk

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    Re: DO ANIMALS HAVE A SOUL Why do many Sikhs eat meat?

    Amarjit Ji ,
    I admire your dedication regarding turning & maintaining vegan diet . However there is not IMHO binding in Gurbani regarding FOOD except for sacrifical HALAL & KOSHER meat . Only binding is to stay away from ALCOHAL ( strictly prohibted ) , tobbacco & each & every intoxicant in this world however MILD it might be . Following is a great link of an excellent thread which puts any doubts regarding DIET to rest . Based only on this thread , the value of SPN is in BILLIONS OF DOLLARS , because such exhaustive discussion I am yet to find on the whole internet .

    http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/8828-fools-who-wrangle-over-flesh.html

    Hope you take some time to go through this thread , this might be worth it .
    Regards ,
    Dalbir Singh
     
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  11. BaljinderS

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    Re: DO ANIMALS HAVE A SOUL Why do many Sikhs eat meat?

    A little extract from that blog
    ----------------------------------

    "You asked why people leaving in western seems to be more obssesed with vegitarian food

    Possible reason as I could understand

    1. Most of the parchar /preaching here is by Sants of various sampradas and sant samaj even Taksal ( accepts it is allowed only as last resort)and they are the one propagating

    2.In the obsession to oppose / resist everything related to western culture people think themself more elevated or doing good by oppsoing everything incluiding meat eating also the idea supported by Sant jis"
     
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  12. Admin Singh

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    Re: DO ANIMALS HAVE A SOUL Why do many Sikhs eat meat?

    Just a little clarification... it is a wrong notion to state that Amritdharis don't eat meat... i have known many Amritdhari families from time to time, who consume meat and some of them also work in top Gurudwara administration. The most interesting part is that they also state that as they got closer to Gurbani, they realized of futility of the argument...

    Gurfateh!
     
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    #11 Admin Singh, Jan 19, 2012
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  13. BaljinderS

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    Re: DO ANIMALS HAVE A SOUL Why do many Sikhs eat meat?

    Just to add to this....you should never ever trust anybody just because they say so... you can only realise the TRUTH if you discover for it yourself. Having blind faith in something is same as having no faith.

    Sikhs do not have a priestly caste system so these so called baabe are not above you. Do your own research.
     
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  14. Seeker9

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    Re: DO ANIMALS HAVE A SOUL Why do many Sikhs eat meat?


    I have started working my way through the above thread

    A remarkable achievement and Randip Ji and all contributers are to be highly commended for their honesty of approach and adding to our knowledge and understanding

    I am learning new things and would echo Dalbir Ji's advice above...no point in rehashing the same concepts when they have been so throughly serviced via the above thread....
     
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  15. Harry Haller

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    Re: DO ANIMALS HAVE A SOUL Why do many Sikhs eat meat?

    some eat meat
    some do not
    only fools argue about it :redturban:
     
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  16. amarjit singh bamrah

    amarjit singh bamrah
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    waheguru I have attached the Book and I pray it attaches as I have been having problems attaching it
     
  17. Kanwaljit Singh

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    I was just pointing to the fact that my parents themselves think Amritdharis shouldn't eat meat, yet used to ask me (till a year back or so) to start eating again.
     
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  18. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Amarjit Simngh bamrah Ji..

    1.Thanks forthe PDF file.

    2.Gurmatt BROKE AWAY from ALL the previous established "truths and half truths"...sucham, bathing at teeraths, teertah yatras, ganga yatra, hardwaar , fasting, keeping silent, body torture, living alone in caves etc etc etc....GURU JI THREW all that in the DUSTBIN and gave us a BRAND NEW GYAAN....and called it GYAAN KHARRAGGH SWORD of KNOWLEDGE...to CUT ourselves free of all this Garbage/baggage. Gurbani is clear proof of this...BUT people who wear ORANGE coloured spectacles..cannot help but see "Gurbani in ORANGE" ( Similar to the Ahmadiahs/theri followers/sufis etc. who wear GREEN Coloured Spectacles..and SEE Gurbani/Guru nanak ji as GREEN !! )
    GURU JI REMOVED our OLD Spectacles, removed the CATARACT...so we could see clearly !!..alas..many among us loved those old specs/catarct so much..we just couldnt live or be happy without them..so we went right back and INVENTED..our own Teeraths...sarovars..made up our own jantar mantars, paaths, various methods of doing paaths, fasts, rituals, rakhri bandhans and lohris and bandi choorrs, snagrands and shubh shubh dins diharras, etc etc etc..( I say "made up" because we also feel a need to be "different"....we even made up supports to our blind faith..Bipran ki reet...main na karoon in kee parteet etc etc.. which is actually SELF DECEPTION really..because even though History clearly proves Guru hargobind Ji couldnt have arrived in Amritsar in Oct/November...we still feel the dire need to have a Bandi Chhoorr diwas in the disguise of Diwali..we feel the need to have a MAGHI PURIFYING BATH..Maghi Sanskryata dip in saraswati/ganga/jumna....so we drag the 40 muktas form MAY/JUNE to DECEMBER to FIT our "need".of the PURIFYING BATH at Mukatsar Sarovar.....same thing with GURBANI..we stretch and pull push GURBANI to SUIT our MEANINGS...what we wnat to beleive..we make the GURU SAY.)...GURU ji told us.."This is Kaurra..its poison..its bitter...DONT EAT...what did we do..we "Coated the kauarra poison bitter with SUGAR....put it in our mouth..and say..NO GURU JI..its really SWEET...!!!.
    3. TASTE...taste..taste...vegans stress so much on the "taste of MEAT"....* there is a multi billion dollar market for VEGAN MEAT !! Why does a VEGAN feel the NEED to eat a "CHICKEN LEG" ( which is made of Soybean flour ) ??? Gurdwars also serve such VEGETARIAN Mutton..chicken..etc...?? who are we trying to CHEAT ?? Isnt this Vegetarian chicken the same as the Diwali disgusied as bandi chhorr Diwas ?? And are Vegans really FREE of the "power of tste" ?? Doest this POWER control their MINDS just as much as the power that controls meat eaters tastes ? Havent you ever heard of 36 Padarths..."heavenly taste" of Amrtisaree Mahaan dee daal..daal makhnni..dahin bhalleh..Jalebis..speciality barfees etc etc..Moti choor Laddoos ?? what ALL THAT ABOUT ?? isnt it all about TASTE too ?? Do vegans eat a .."tasteless lsurpy slush"..or do they too love a well salted..sauteed onion/garlic/ laced with a dash of lime..mirchee massalla..etc etc ?? Cant a Vegan be so "addicted" to Daal makhnni just as soem one else to Kentucky Fried Chicken ?? GURBANI and GURMATT declares the ADDICTION as BAD....its the ADDICTION that CONTROLS OUR MINDS....not chicken or mutton or daal makhhnnee !! Who says that "ADDICTION" of a vegan to daal makhhnnee is BETTER than the ADDICTION of another to KFC drumsticks ?? GURBANI alreay dispelled the SOOTAK MYTH..daal wheat etc all contain LIFE...microbes etc..susree..all of which have to DIE when we cook....

    5. What would be the SIKH equivalent of a SOOR/GAI ?? as in ..Haak praya Nanaka..US soor us Gayeh ?? Chicken ?? after all IF we can pick and choose just any one line we like..then CHICKEN is not mentioned..only soor and gayeh...and Kabir Ji is being polite..in aksing the Kazi ..KION MURGEE MAREH ?? becasue the KAZI is NOT killing for TASTE per se..He is KILLING it as SACRIFICE to His God...what Kabir Ji is really asking is what gives the Kazi the RIGHT to CHOOSE what to sacrifice ??
     
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  19. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Amrtidharees...feeling guilty..stopping meat etc..etc..blah blah blah...
    I have yet to hear about...
    Amrtidharees...feeling guilty...giving up control of Gurdwara GOLUCKS...and turning to Gurmatt Parchaar..community service...helping poor greeb sikhs with jobs etc etc ..for a change !!!
    I would LOVE to hear soemone tell me about one such "amrtidharee" pardhaan /skattar...who felt guilty..and gave up goluck..and opened a school for poor sikh kids..began to give free tuition to sikh kids..opeend an orphanage for sikh kids..etc etc....ANYONE ???

    Just GOOGLE YOU TUBE..and see ?? any ex-amrtidharees...goluck grabbers...feeling guilty.....and... into samaaj seva ?? I BET my last Dollar you will NEVER find such...BUT you will find plenty of gurdwara fights..swords flashinga dn turbans flying...and ALL involved are"Amrtidharees" ( who almost certianly are also VEGAN !!....simply because its been almost mandatory for amrtidharee = vegan..or at least in "theory"...I cannot understand why these vegans carry swords to cut fellow vegans..addiction to GOLUCK perhaps...japposatnamwaheguru:)
     
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  20. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Why do people say "killing animals for food" is bad karma..you will end up ina bad joon...etc etc...really ??
    And so lots of Simran sessions...go on endlessly (muktee from ava gaunn..freedom form joons..etc etc)..lots of Dhadrianwallahs bang huge groups of Chamtas and Chhainnas...lots of sukhmani sahib paaths...akhand paaths in figures such as 501..1001..etc etc..havans..chaliisaas....etc etc..yatrs to hemkunt..hazoor sahib..amritsar...all for MUKTEE...from bad Karma..Joons..
    But Guru Arjun ji is telling us...
    Raaj na chahon..MUKTEE na Chahon....PREET CHARAN KAMLAREH !! Page 534
    ਰਾਜੁ ਨ ਚਾਹਉ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਚਾਹਉ ਮਨਿ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਚਰਨ ਕਮਲਾਰੇ॥
    ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਪੰਨਾ ੫੩੪
    Which is which ?? Muktee or NOT ?? what do we really wnat ?? what does the GURU tell us to WISH FOR ?? Is the Guru instructing us..Hey Dont kill that chicken !! ( or you will get Bad karma..get reborn in a chicken joon..and wont get muktee !!) Or is the Guru telling us soemthing entirley different..BUT we refuse to take off that old pair of green/blue/orange/bhagwa specs..and contineu to see ornage/bhagwa/green muktee..salvation..daan..punns..paaps etc etc... After all the main reason behind all this "so kion murgee mareh" thing is about paap..animal soul...blah blah...and how to escape that paap..bad joon....avoid narak and attain surag..BUT then again Gurbani tells us >>Gursikhs DONT DESIRE surag/narak etc..etc..so whats the deal ??are we trying to FIT the PENTAGON shaped Gurmatt into the same old 'round"..square...triangle ??? IT just WONT FIT JIOS....a Pentagon is a Pentagon.....random thoughts...
     
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  21. Ambarsaria

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    Let us ask some basic things even though much is covered in the other thread.

    Organizationally who are pushing for ways different from Gurbani? We know very well that these are Babey, sub-sets of Sikhs who are then glorified for following as though they some how become superior.

    Tactics,

    • One Dehra with Sikh persona at the head, at the banks of a river in Punjabi ( River west of Sutluj, I forget the name)lol ?
      • Same Dehra kicked out SGGS prakash on premises
      • So suddenly people not eating meat and accepting insult of SGGS ji have achieved higher status in Sikhism
        • Totally obnoxious
      • The followers are very funny and logic is pretty trash too
        • This is the "no-Egg" crowd who will eat mushrooms, yeast products, and perhaps many bugs ground into the flour and Restaurant curries thoroughly enjoyed
    • Another Dehra with Sikh persona at the head preaches great Humanity while denigrating SGGS
      • I think their name starts with "Ni" and ends with "ari", I forget the complete name lol
      • Suddenly their followers start feeling superior as though Sikhism is not Humanistic
    • Then there is Dehra of the "True Merchandise" who attracts in the name of Humanism various perversions while trying most of the time to denigrate Sikh gurus
      • I believe it is near some city in Haryana that starts with "S" and ends with "sa", I forget the name
    From a Sikhism perspective the fundamental question is if any such aberrations make some one better relative to others?

    • Example: Someone not eating meat is somehow spiritually or otherwise superior or higher than the one eating meat?
      • I would like to see one and we will be able to find many more examples of meat eaters with same or better qualities.
    Just as we consume to live the others eventually consume us to live. This is fundamental in creation.fundamental. Given that humans have developed ways to increase the choices of what they can eat does not make any difference what one may eat. It can taste bad to some, it may look bad to some, but that is a choice humans have.

    "Lions" eat meat,

    [​IMG]

    When the lions die they will be eaten by the vultures, hyenas, worms, and the earth and the grass and the plants.

    Al such debates and tangential cults are simply part of taking Sikhism back centuries through partitioning people with "vehms/doubts" and "Bhulekhas/trickery" and misquoting of SGGS. The end game is to destro Sikhism and make it part of its origins which I believe relates to a religion which starts with "Hi" and ends with "u", I forget the name lol.

    Shame on Sikhs following such destroyers of Sikhism and shame on such deceiving people with Sikh persona trying to destroy Sikhism.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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