Welcome to SPN

Register and Join the most happening forum of Sikh community & intellectuals from around the world.

Sign Up Now!

Sakhis Do all Sakhis compliment Gurmat?

Discussion in 'History of Sikhism' started by Tejwant Singh, Jul 18, 2007.

  1. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
    Expand Collapse
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4,560
    Likes Received:
    6,989
    Do all Sakhis compliment Gurmat?


    It is interesting to observe that how much credence we give to the Sakhis which are passed on as oral traditions and some have been used in writings and are shamlessly used on the pulpit by the Ragis and the Kathavachaks without even giving it a second thought if they compliment Gurmat or not.

    We as Sikhs must be always aware that only the Sakhis that compliment Gurbani- Gurmat values- should be embraced. The rest should be rejected and should be forbidden by the Akal Takht for the Ragis/ Kathavachaks to ever use them.

    Lets take the Sakhi below as told by Dr. Hakam Singh in another forum .

    Aurangzeb invites Guru Har Rai to come to Delhi (For reasons of his own).

    Guru Har Rai, instead of going himself, sends his eldest son Ram Rai.

    Ram Rai answers most of the questions posed to him on Sikhism in the emperor's
    court and even works miracles.

    In answer to one question on the validity of Guru Nanak's Sabad, "Mittee
    Musalman ki pere paee kumhiaar ----------", Ram Rai wavers and says that the
    Sabd is "Mittee Baeemaan ki" and not Mittee Musalman ki.

    Guru Har Rai on hearing what Ram Rai had done (distorted the Sabad of Guru
    Nanak) said, "I do not wish to see the face of Ram Rai any more".


    Before we dissect its contents, lets look in the back ground of the Shabad.First and foremost this Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji which was written more than a century before this incident has supposed to have happened. We are all aware through history that all these Mughal emperors were not illiterate nor dumb. They had advisers in all fields specially about Sikhi as Aurangzeb felt threatened about Sikhi taking over Islam. Hence he must have been told about Gurbani and Adi Granth and as the conventional wisdom indicates that he must have also known the right verse, thus had no reason to ask Ram Rai about it.

    Now lets assume for the sake of argument that Aurangzeb had no idea about the following Shabad:-

    This Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Aasaa on Pannaa 466

    ma 1 ||

    First Mehla:

    mittee musalamaan kee paerrai pee kumihaaar ||
    The clay of the Muslim's grave becomes clay for the potter's wheel.

    gharr bhaa(n)ddae eittaa keeaa jaladhee karae pukaar ||
    Pots and bricks are fashioned from it, and it cries out as it burns.

    jal jal rovai bapurree jharr jharr pavehi a(n)giaar ||
    The poor clay burns, burns and weeps, as the fiery coals fall upon
    it.

    naanak jin karathai kaaran keeaa so jaanai karathaar ||2||
    O Nanak, the Creator created the creation; the Creator Lord alone
    knows. ||2||

    The above Shabad is talking about the burial. As India had no Christians nor Jews at that time then the only people who were buried in India rather than cremated were only the Muslims.

    The Sakhi based on the above Shabad goes like this:

    Some Muslim scholars were having a chat with Guru Nanak Dev Ji and they told him that all Muslims go to Heaven after the burial where it is cool and all kafirs go to hell which is steaming hot. After listening to them Guru Nanak asked them through the Shabad, how can heaven be cool when you are put in a hot oven by The Potter? In other words, No Hell- No Heaven-.Now this Sakhi does compliment the Shabad and makes sense.

    Aurangzeb did not know the shabad but as a devout Muslim he knew that Allah is mentioned as the Potter in Koran.

    In Judaism, Christianity and Islam, Ik Ong Kaar is considered The Potter and Heaven is considered as a cool place and Hell as steaming hot cauldron.


    The Holy Bible

    Isaiah 64:8 (New International Version)
    8 Yet, O LORD, you are our Father.
    We are the clay, you are the potter;
    we are all the work of your hand

    Isaiah 45:9 (New International Version)
    9 "Woe to him who quarrels with his Maker,
    to him who is but a potsherd among the potsherds on the
    ground.
    Does the clay say to the potter,
    'What are you making?'
    Does your work say,
    'He has no hands'?

    The Holy Koran

    [55.14] He created man from dry clay like earthen vessels,

    [6.2] He it is Who created you from clay, then He decreed a term;
    and there is a term named with Him; still you doubt.

    [15:28-31]
    Your Lord said to the angels, "I am creating a human being from aged
    mud, like the potter's clay. Once I perfect him, and blow into him
    from My spirit, you shall fall prostrate before him. The angels fell
    prostrate; all of them, except Iblis (Satan). He refused to be with
    the prostrators.

    Now coming back to the Sakhi. If Ram Rai had changed the word from Musalmaan to Bayeemann, that would have been much more offensive because then it would indicate that all Musalmaans are Bayeemanns.

    In conclusion, the above incidence is not likely to have happened as it gets Ram Rai into bigger trouble.

    Tejwant

    BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 50 versions and 35 languages.
    The Koran
    RACISM-A Gross Sin and Psycho-Spiritual Illness-Islam-Submission-Introduction,definition, discussion, debate, laws-Women-blacks-African-Ameerican-naation of islam-noi-Elija Muhammad, Farrakhan-discrimination-racial-prejudice-in Islam-Submission-Muham
     
  2. Loading...

    Similar Threads Forum Date
    Sakhis Janam-Sakhis: The FABEL-ous Cultural Heritage History of Sikhism Feb 7, 2011
    Bhagats Sakhis of Bhagat Namdev History of Sikhism Jan 30, 2011
    Sanatan Sikhi Sau Sakhis: Prophesies or Myths? Sikh Sikhi Sikhism Jun 11, 2010
    Sakhis The Magic of Sakhis - Share Your Views History of Sikhism Nov 20, 2009
    Sakhis About Sakhis/Janam Sakhis Section History of Sikhism Oct 8, 2009

  3. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2007
    Messages:
    4,578
    Likes Received:
    1,606
    When you make comparisons, there has to be a yardstick. My suggestion is that you first understand the 3 Gunas - Sattas. Rajas and Tamas. With this three divisions that makes a yardstick, one can assess which historical event belongs to which Guna.

    When you have measured the properties of the Gunas in a story (sakhi) you can decide which one is more reliable than the other.

    Your confusion will change to knowledge.
    See the topic - Faith has its reasons. (Point to Ponder)
     
  4. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    Begum,

    For Sikhs, the yardstick is Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib. Variance in core beliefs always looks like confusion across philosophical plains and valleys.

    Cheers
     
  5. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2007
    Messages:
    4,578
    Likes Received:
    1,606
    With due respect aad penji,
    my intention was to address the matter to humanity as a whole. While Sikhs have their core belief in SGGS , Muslims and Christians don't. I have to take into consideration the other races as they too might benefit from these forum threads.
    Maybe it is time we took a step towards universality and oneness rather than diversity and religion.
     

Share This Page