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Database corruption Network or Program?

Discussion in 'Information Technology' started by Jody K, Jul 28, 2006.

  1. Jody K

    Jody K
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    I currently have a database that that is used by 4 users over a network. The
    four users are connected via winterms. The database is being accessed by
    these users simultaneously and each user has his own form that he updates.
    Each form also has a sub form and all the data is stored in two tables. The
    database isn’t split due to the winterm issue.
    The problem is that every so often the network starts to slow down and my
    database becomes corrupt. Sometimes just the relationships are deleted and
    other times I have to restore a backup copy. Our IT department insists that
    the problem is with the database but I feel it is the network. We also have
    the same problems with excel and other programs that we use. The IT guys tell
    me that Access isn’t meant to be used for multiple users and this is the
    problem. The database is in .mdb form and is stored on our local network. IT
    tells me that we do have a SQL server available but say this would not help
    the problem. Currently they are wanting me to convert my database and use
    Infopath which I am hesitant to do. I am told that the reason this is wanted
    is because it is more user friendly and can reside on the SQL server. I
    guess I want to know what does it take to run a database from a SQL server
    and do you think this would help? My data base is simple to use and the
    reports are important in our production facility. Any advice would be
    appreciated.
     
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  3. Mastercafe - Juan

    Mastercafe - Juan
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    I don't recommend you use WinTerm with access MDB.
    The best solution is MDB on server and MDE/MDB on the end user terminal,
    link tables and ready to use.
    The problem with MDB is left open any table or process, normally create a
    corrupted MDB.
    If you want to continue using MDB with WinTerm you need change your
    application to retrieve only 1 registry, or recover more to snapshot format.
    Similar operation to ASP uses with an MDB.
    MDB permit much options to use on network, but need some specifications that
    convert the traditional MDB in an application closed to ASP.
    Other option is convert MDB to SQL server and try to connect.

    --
    Saludos desde Oviedo (Asturias)

    Juan Menéndez
    Mastercafe S.L.
    www.mastercafe.com
    juan@mastercafe.com

    Si la información recibido te ha servido indicalo con otro post.
    En caso de resolverlo por otros medios, indica la solución usada
    ayudaras a otros y aprenderemos todos.

    "Jody K" <JodyK@discussions.microsoft.com> escribió en el mensaje
    news:9009555A-38C7-4A33-AF47-1471781F8CCF@microsoft.com...
    >I currently have a database that that is used by 4 users over a network.
    >The
    > four users are connected via winterms. The database is being accessed by
    > these users simultaneously and each user has his own form that he updates.
    > Each form also has a sub form and all the data is stored in two tables.
    > The
    > database isn't split due to the winterm issue.
    > The problem is that every so often the network starts to slow down and my
    > database becomes corrupt. Sometimes just the relationships are deleted and
    > other times I have to restore a backup copy. Our IT department insists
    > that
    > the problem is with the database but I feel it is the network. We also
    > have
    > the same problems with excel and other programs that we use. The IT guys
    > tell
    > me that Access isn't meant to be used for multiple users and this is the
    > problem. The database is in .mdb form and is stored on our local network.
    > IT
    > tells me that we do have a SQL server available but say this would not
    > help
    > the problem. Currently they are wanting me to convert my database and use
    > Infopath which I am hesitant to do. I am told that the reason this is
    > wanted
    > is because it is more user friendly and can reside on the SQL server. I
    > guess I want to know what does it take to run a database from a SQL server
    > and do you think this would help? My data base is simple to use and the
    > reports are important in our production facility. Any advice would be
    > appreciated.
    >
     
  4. Sylvain Lafontaine

    Sylvain Lafontaine
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    I don't know what the database isn't split but unless you really cannot do
    this with Winterm, this is probably a bad decision and could be one of the
    source of your corruption problems.

    When you say that relationships are deleted, do you mean that records with
    foreign keys are missing or that the database schema have really been
    changed?

    Unless you are using some very, very strange VBA code, you should be OK
    using SQL-Server as the backend and this would probably stop your corruption
    problems. In many cases, a basic conversion of the backend to SQL-Server
    using linked tables will take at most a few hours (however, I cannot tell
    for sure in your case as I don't know your stuff). I don't understand why
    your IT department say that this would not help.

    My opinion is that one your IT guys is willing to make his hands on Infopath
    with some project and is searching an excuse for doing so. This is usually
    a bad combination when your database becomes a study project for someone
    else.

    --
    Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
    MVP - Technologies Virtual-PC
    E-mail: http://cerbermail.com/?QugbLEWINF


    "Jody K" <JodyK@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    news:9009555A-38C7-4A33-AF47-1471781F8CCF@microsoft.com...
    >I currently have a database that that is used by 4 users over a network.
    >The
    > four users are connected via winterms. The database is being accessed by
    > these users simultaneously and each user has his own form that he updates.
    > Each form also has a sub form and all the data is stored in two tables.
    > The
    > database isn't split due to the winterm issue.
    > The problem is that every so often the network starts to slow down and my
    > database becomes corrupt. Sometimes just the relationships are deleted and
    > other times I have to restore a backup copy. Our IT department insists
    > that
    > the problem is with the database but I feel it is the network. We also
    > have
    > the same problems with excel and other programs that we use. The IT guys
    > tell
    > me that Access isn't meant to be used for multiple users and this is the
    > problem. The database is in .mdb form and is stored on our local network.
    > IT
    > tells me that we do have a SQL server available but say this would not
    > help
    > the problem. Currently they are wanting me to convert my database and use
    > Infopath which I am hesitant to do. I am told that the reason this is
    > wanted
    > is because it is more user friendly and can reside on the SQL server. I
    > guess I want to know what does it take to run a database from a SQL server
    > and do you think this would help? My data base is simple to use and the
    > reports are important in our production facility. Any advice would be
    > appreciated.
    >
     
  5. Jody K

    Jody K
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    The database isn’t split and all users use the same file to enter the
    information. I was told that it would not make a difference with the winterm
    if I split it. If I did split it the backend would be on the local server and
    the front end would reside on the corporate server in our “My Documentsâ€
    folder. I assume with a split database each user would take a copy of the
    front end and store it in his “My documents†folder. With this set up would
    I need to make changes to the “master†front end then instruct each person to
    make a new copy after the changes? Would I split the database then upsize
    just the back end for the SQL server? If I did this then could the front end
    reside on the local server and each person use the same front end?

    When I said the relationships are deleted I mean that when I go to the
    relationship view the links between them are gone and in some cases the
    primary key has been deleted. I must go back in and re-establish the
    relationships and reset the Key.

    The VBA code that I use is straight forward and not to technical.

    You talk about the SQL conversion, is this done by using the “Upsizing
    Wizard�
    If so, do you just upsize the backend for storage on the SQL server?

    As far as my IT department goes they have never like the database that we
    use. Part of it is that they do not have a clear understanding of how access
    works. I was told in the beginning that they would not support it. IT keeps
    telling me that ACCESS is geared for a single user and was never intended for
    multiple users using the same database. Everything that I have read is quite
    the opposite of this.

    Our company has recently upgraded to Sharepoint and has been pushing InfoPath.
    I agree with them that InfoPath has some great possibility but I do not feel
    that it can compete with ACCESS as far as data collection and reporting.

    As you can tell I am still struggling with ACCESS myself. This project was
    dumped in my lap about three years ago and it has been an up hill battle. I
    have learned a lot from this community and can’t tell you enough how much I
    appreciate people like yourself and all the others that take the time to
    answer our questions and help us out.


    "Sylvain Lafontaine" wrote:

    > I don't know what the database isn't split but unless you really cannot do
    > this with Winterm, this is probably a bad decision and could be one of the
    > source of your corruption problems.
    >
    > When you say that relationships are deleted, do you mean that records with
    > foreign keys are missing or that the database schema have really been
    > changed?
    >
    > Unless you are using some very, very strange VBA code, you should be OK
    > using SQL-Server as the backend and this would probably stop your corruption
    > problems. In many cases, a basic conversion of the backend to SQL-Server
    > using linked tables will take at most a few hours (however, I cannot tell
    > for sure in your case as I don't know your stuff). I don't understand why
    > your IT department say that this would not help.
    >
    > My opinion is that one your IT guys is willing to make his hands on Infopath
    > with some project and is searching an excuse for doing so. This is usually
    > a bad combination when your database becomes a study project for someone
    > else.
    >
    > --
    > Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
    > MVP - Technologies Virtual-PC
    > E-mail: http://cerbermail.com/?QugbLEWINF
    >
    >
    > "Jody K" <JodyK@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    > news:9009555A-38C7-4A33-AF47-1471781F8CCF@microsoft.com...
    > >I currently have a database that that is used by 4 users over a network.
    > >The
    > > four users are connected via winterms. The database is being accessed by
    > > these users simultaneously and each user has his own form that he updates.
    > > Each form also has a sub form and all the data is stored in two tables.
    > > The
    > > database isn't split due to the winterm issue.
    > > The problem is that every so often the network starts to slow down and my
    > > database becomes corrupt. Sometimes just the relationships are deleted and
    > > other times I have to restore a backup copy. Our IT department insists
    > > that
    > > the problem is with the database but I feel it is the network. We also
    > > have
    > > the same problems with excel and other programs that we use. The IT guys
    > > tell
    > > me that Access isn't meant to be used for multiple users and this is the
    > > problem. The database is in .mdb form and is stored on our local network.
    > > IT
    > > tells me that we do have a SQL server available but say this would not
    > > help
    > > the problem. Currently they are wanting me to convert my database and use
    > > Infopath which I am hesitant to do. I am told that the reason this is
    > > wanted
    > > is because it is more user friendly and can reside on the SQL server. I
    > > guess I want to know what does it take to run a database from a SQL server
    > > and do you think this would help? My data base is simple to use and the
    > > reports are important in our production facility. Any advice would be
    > > appreciated.
    > >

    >
    >
    >
     
  6. Sylvain Lafontaine

    Sylvain Lafontaine
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    In a perfect world, splitting or not a database wouldn't make any
    difference. However, before Access can use or run a form, a module or a
    query, it must compile it and this process seems to be extremely sensitive
    to any disturbance or to any difference of versions of Windows and Service
    Packs between your users. Even when all of your users have the same version
    of Windows because they are using Winterm or Citrix/TS, it has always been
    suggested in this newsgroup that each user should have his own copy of the
    frontend in order to minimize the risk of corruption and this apply whether
    the backend is a MDB file or SQL-Server.

    Of course, this rise the problem of updating these copies when there is a
    new version but this is a small problem in comparaison of having corruption
    on a regular basis. Search Google or this newsgroup for « FE AutoUpdater »
    to find an easy solution for this.

    For the upsizing process, yes, you can use the Upsizing Wizard and you
    should be done at the end in most cases. If you are using a lot of DAO, you
    will have to add the option dbSeeChanges here and there but Access will tell
    you everywhere you have missed it when you will try to run the code; so it's
    easy to correct the situation.

    InfoPath can be a good solution for collecting data; however, it's
    bi-directional communication with the database is very weak so if you have
    to go further than just collecting data, it's not the ticket for you.
    Besides, if you want to use InfoPath, you will have to set up your database
    on SQL-Server, so I don't see the point of not trying this first with
    Access.

    --
    Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
    MVP - Technologies Virtual-PC
    E-mail: http://cerbermail.com/?QugbLEWINF


    "Jody K" <JodyK@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    news:19828887-283F-409A-A650-85FAAC575529@microsoft.com...
    > The database isn't split and all users use the same file to enter the
    > information. I was told that it would not make a difference with the
    > winterm
    > if I split it. If I did split it the backend would be on the local server
    > and
    > the front end would reside on the corporate server in our "My Documents"
    > folder. I assume with a split database each user would take a copy of the
    > front end and store it in his "My documents" folder. With this set up
    > would
    > I need to make changes to the "master" front end then instruct each person
    > to
    > make a new copy after the changes? Would I split the database then upsize
    > just the back end for the SQL server? If I did this then could the front
    > end
    > reside on the local server and each person use the same front end?
    >
    > When I said the relationships are deleted I mean that when I go to the
    > relationship view the links between them are gone and in some cases the
    > primary key has been deleted. I must go back in and re-establish the
    > relationships and reset the Key.
    >
    > The VBA code that I use is straight forward and not to technical.
    >
    > You talk about the SQL conversion, is this done by using the "Upsizing
    > Wizard"?
    > If so, do you just upsize the backend for storage on the SQL server?
    >
    > As far as my IT department goes they have never like the database that we
    > use. Part of it is that they do not have a clear understanding of how
    > access
    > works. I was told in the beginning that they would not support it. IT
    > keeps
    > telling me that ACCESS is geared for a single user and was never intended
    > for
    > multiple users using the same database. Everything that I have read is
    > quite
    > the opposite of this.
    >
    > Our company has recently upgraded to Sharepoint and has been pushing
    > InfoPath.
    > I agree with them that InfoPath has some great possibility but I do not
    > feel
    > that it can compete with ACCESS as far as data collection and reporting.
    >
    > As you can tell I am still struggling with ACCESS myself. This project was
    > dumped in my lap about three years ago and it has been an up hill battle.
    > I
    > have learned a lot from this community and can't tell you enough how much
    > I
    > appreciate people like yourself and all the others that take the time to
    > answer our questions and help us out.
    >
    >
    > "Sylvain Lafontaine" wrote:
    >
    >> I don't know what the database isn't split but unless you really cannot
    >> do
    >> this with Winterm, this is probably a bad decision and could be one of
    >> the
    >> source of your corruption problems.
    >>
    >> When you say that relationships are deleted, do you mean that records
    >> with
    >> foreign keys are missing or that the database schema have really been
    >> changed?
    >>
    >> Unless you are using some very, very strange VBA code, you should be OK
    >> using SQL-Server as the backend and this would probably stop your
    >> corruption
    >> problems. In many cases, a basic conversion of the backend to SQL-Server
    >> using linked tables will take at most a few hours (however, I cannot tell
    >> for sure in your case as I don't know your stuff). I don't understand why
    >> your IT department say that this would not help.
    >>
    >> My opinion is that one your IT guys is willing to make his hands on
    >> Infopath
    >> with some project and is searching an excuse for doing so. This is
    >> usually
    >> a bad combination when your database becomes a study project for someone
    >> else.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
    >> MVP - Technologies Virtual-PC
    >> E-mail: http://cerbermail.com/?QugbLEWINF
    >>
    >>
    >> "Jody K" <JodyK@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    >> news:9009555A-38C7-4A33-AF47-1471781F8CCF@microsoft.com...
    >> >I currently have a database that that is used by 4 users over a network.
    >> >The
    >> > four users are connected via winterms. The database is being accessed
    >> > by
    >> > these users simultaneously and each user has his own form that he
    >> > updates.
    >> > Each form also has a sub form and all the data is stored in two tables.
    >> > The
    >> > database isn't split due to the winterm issue.
    >> > The problem is that every so often the network starts to slow down and
    >> > my
    >> > database becomes corrupt. Sometimes just the relationships are deleted
    >> > and
    >> > other times I have to restore a backup copy. Our IT department insists
    >> > that
    >> > the problem is with the database but I feel it is the network. We also
    >> > have
    >> > the same problems with excel and other programs that we use. The IT
    >> > guys
    >> > tell
    >> > me that Access isn't meant to be used for multiple users and this is
    >> > the
    >> > problem. The database is in .mdb form and is stored on our local
    >> > network.
    >> > IT
    >> > tells me that we do have a SQL server available but say this would not
    >> > help
    >> > the problem. Currently they are wanting me to convert my database and
    >> > use
    >> > Infopath which I am hesitant to do. I am told that the reason this is
    >> > wanted
    >> > is because it is more user friendly and can reside on the SQL server.
    >> > I
    >> > guess I want to know what does it take to run a database from a SQL
    >> > server
    >> > and do you think this would help? My data base is simple to use and
    >> > the
    >> > reports are important in our production facility. Any advice would be
    >> > appreciated.
    >> >

    >>
    >>
    >>
     
  7. Jody K

    Jody K
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Thanks so much for the information. I work shift work and will not be able to
    try this until a week from Monday 6/12/06 but I will try it and I will post
    how it goes. Again Thanks for the advice.

    "Sylvain Lafontaine" wrote:

    > In a perfect world, splitting or not a database wouldn't make any
    > difference. However, before Access can use or run a form, a module or a
    > query, it must compile it and this process seems to be extremely sensitive
    > to any disturbance or to any difference of versions of Windows and Service
    > Packs between your users. Even when all of your users have the same version
    > of Windows because they are using Winterm or Citrix/TS, it has always been
    > suggested in this newsgroup that each user should have his own copy of the
    > frontend in order to minimize the risk of corruption and this apply whether
    > the backend is a MDB file or SQL-Server.
    >
    > Of course, this rise the problem of updating these copies when there is a
    > new version but this is a small problem in comparaison of having corruption
    > on a regular basis. Search Google or this newsgroup for « FE AutoUpdater »
    > to find an easy solution for this.
    >
    > For the upsizing process, yes, you can use the Upsizing Wizard and you
    > should be done at the end in most cases. If you are using a lot of DAO, you
    > will have to add the option dbSeeChanges here and there but Access will tell
    > you everywhere you have missed it when you will try to run the code; so it's
    > easy to correct the situation.
    >
    > InfoPath can be a good solution for collecting data; however, it's
    > bi-directional communication with the database is very weak so if you have
    > to go further than just collecting data, it's not the ticket for you.
    > Besides, if you want to use InfoPath, you will have to set up your database
    > on SQL-Server, so I don't see the point of not trying this first with
    > Access.
    >
    > --
    > Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
    > MVP - Technologies Virtual-PC
    > E-mail: http://cerbermail.com/?QugbLEWINF
    >
    >
    > "Jody K" <JodyK@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    > news:19828887-283F-409A-A650-85FAAC575529@microsoft.com...
    > > The database isn't split and all users use the same file to enter the
    > > information. I was told that it would not make a difference with the
    > > winterm
    > > if I split it. If I did split it the backend would be on the local server
    > > and
    > > the front end would reside on the corporate server in our "My Documents"
    > > folder. I assume with a split database each user would take a copy of the
    > > front end and store it in his "My documents" folder. With this set up
    > > would
    > > I need to make changes to the "master" front end then instruct each person
    > > to
    > > make a new copy after the changes? Would I split the database then upsize
    > > just the back end for the SQL server? If I did this then could the front
    > > end
    > > reside on the local server and each person use the same front end?
    > >
    > > When I said the relationships are deleted I mean that when I go to the
    > > relationship view the links between them are gone and in some cases the
    > > primary key has been deleted. I must go back in and re-establish the
    > > relationships and reset the Key.
    > >
    > > The VBA code that I use is straight forward and not to technical.
    > >
    > > You talk about the SQL conversion, is this done by using the "Upsizing
    > > Wizard"?
    > > If so, do you just upsize the backend for storage on the SQL server?
    > >
    > > As far as my IT department goes they have never like the database that we
    > > use. Part of it is that they do not have a clear understanding of how
    > > access
    > > works. I was told in the beginning that they would not support it. IT
    > > keeps
    > > telling me that ACCESS is geared for a single user and was never intended
    > > for
    > > multiple users using the same database. Everything that I have read is
    > > quite
    > > the opposite of this.
    > >
    > > Our company has recently upgraded to Sharepoint and has been pushing
    > > InfoPath.
    > > I agree with them that InfoPath has some great possibility but I do not
    > > feel
    > > that it can compete with ACCESS as far as data collection and reporting.
    > >
    > > As you can tell I am still struggling with ACCESS myself. This project was
    > > dumped in my lap about three years ago and it has been an up hill battle.
    > > I
    > > have learned a lot from this community and can't tell you enough how much
    > > I
    > > appreciate people like yourself and all the others that take the time to
    > > answer our questions and help us out.
    > >
    > >
    > > "Sylvain Lafontaine" wrote:
    > >
    > >> I don't know what the database isn't split but unless you really cannot
    > >> do
    > >> this with Winterm, this is probably a bad decision and could be one of
    > >> the
    > >> source of your corruption problems.
    > >>
    > >> When you say that relationships are deleted, do you mean that records
    > >> with
    > >> foreign keys are missing or that the database schema have really been
    > >> changed?
    > >>
    > >> Unless you are using some very, very strange VBA code, you should be OK
    > >> using SQL-Server as the backend and this would probably stop your
    > >> corruption
    > >> problems. In many cases, a basic conversion of the backend to SQL-Server
    > >> using linked tables will take at most a few hours (however, I cannot tell
    > >> for sure in your case as I don't know your stuff). I don't understand why
    > >> your IT department say that this would not help.
    > >>
    > >> My opinion is that one your IT guys is willing to make his hands on
    > >> Infopath
    > >> with some project and is searching an excuse for doing so. This is
    > >> usually
    > >> a bad combination when your database becomes a study project for someone
    > >> else.
    > >>
    > >> --
    > >> Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
    > >> MVP - Technologies Virtual-PC
    > >> E-mail: http://cerbermail.com/?QugbLEWINF
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> "Jody K" <JodyK@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    > >> news:9009555A-38C7-4A33-AF47-1471781F8CCF@microsoft.com...
    > >> >I currently have a database that that is used by 4 users over a network.
    > >> >The
    > >> > four users are connected via winterms. The database is being accessed
    > >> > by
    > >> > these users simultaneously and each user has his own form that he
    > >> > updates.
    > >> > Each form also has a sub form and all the data is stored in two tables.
    > >> > The
    > >> > database isn't split due to the winterm issue.
    > >> > The problem is that every so often the network starts to slow down and
    > >> > my
    > >> > database becomes corrupt. Sometimes just the relationships are deleted
    > >> > and
    > >> > other times I have to restore a backup copy. Our IT department insists
    > >> > that
    > >> > the problem is with the database but I feel it is the network. We also
    > >> > have
    > >> > the same problems with excel and other programs that we use. The IT
    > >> > guys
    > >> > tell
    > >> > me that Access isn't meant to be used for multiple users and this is
    > >> > the
    > >> > problem. The database is in .mdb form and is stored on our local
    > >> > network.
    > >> > IT
    > >> > tells me that we do have a SQL server available but say this would not
    > >> > help
    > >> > the problem. Currently they are wanting me to convert my database and
    > >> > use
    > >> > Infopath which I am hesitant to do. I am told that the reason this is
    > >> > wanted
    > >> > is because it is more user friendly and can reside on the SQL server.
    > >> > I
    > >> > guess I want to know what does it take to run a database from a SQL
    > >> > server
    > >> > and do you think this would help? My data base is simple to use and
    > >> > the
    > >> > reports are important in our production facility. Any advice would be
    > >> > appreciated.
    > >> >
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>

    >
    >
    >
     

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