Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is Masculine or Feminine and What is the Significa

Discussion in 'Gurmat Vichaar' started by Ambarsaria, Nov 26, 2011.


  1. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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    I share below couple of great comments I got from gurmatbibek site regarding this question.

    1. Grammar oriented


    2. Essence and Reference
    Additionally I believe, from what I understand, the use of masculinity in General in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is such that the female persona did not become a point of illustration and possible misuse. Feminine or female persona was considered sacred and beyond reproach and so was the use of such not common in dialog or the conveyance of messages of Guru jis. This is just my observation and I apologize ahead of time in any errors.

    What do you think?

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
    #1 Ambarsaria, Nov 26, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2011
  2. prakash.s.bagga

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    Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

    AMBARSARIA Ji,
    It is really an interesting subject which every Gursikh must become familiar to get clear understanding about the messages of Gurbani.
    I personally feel that our understanding about CREATOR is confusing .According to Gurbani CREATOR is SYSTEM which itself is CREATED from the word GuRoo.Thus the source of SYSTEM CREATOR is the word GuROO itself.(This word GuRoo is GuR with Dulakad matra under its letter R).This we are not able to catchand hence the difference in understanding.

    The words NOUNS and or ADJECTIVES are classified as
    According to gender as Masculine/Feminine or Neutral
    According to Vachan that is the number the word represents

    Further there are several classification of Nouns and the most important found in Gurbani are Common Noun and COLLECTIVE NOUNS.
    In Gurbani we have to understand the significance of COLLECTIVE NOUNS.
    COLLECTIVE Nouns are words for representing two things together

    GENDER OF WORDS In GURBANI
    ..........................................

    In Gurbani the gender of the NOUN words is as
    The NOUN words with a matra of AUKAD under its last letter is MASCULINE(SINGULAR) whereas the words without any matra under its last letter is FEMININE (SINGULAR)
    .Further any FEMINIE(SINGULAR) is a MASCULINE (PLURAL)...This is very important to understand.
    If we apply the above grammer to the word GuR we can see

    GuRoo.(Masuline,SINGULAR COLLECTIVE NOUN) and

    GUR....(MASCULINE PLURAL) or FEMININE SINGULAR.

    Now one can see that the word GuR is SINGULAR FMININE but PLURALMASCULINE
    and this understanding can reveal the difference in the reference meanings of the words GuRoo/GuRu and GuR.

    This is my personal understanding of Gurbani grammer and is subject to discussion.

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  3. sandeep17oct

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    Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

    CAll it whatever you like. Assign an attribute male to it if that pleases you or do the opposite . Does that change the word? Does it have an effect on the message that it tries to convey? These questions arise in the mind to distract the individual from the path and keep him/her astray. Concentrate on the Naam. No better time than this. Human life is rarest among the rare .Dont waste it on petty questions as these.
    Waheguruji ka Khalsa. Whaeguruji ki Fateh.
     
  4. prakash.s.bagga

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    Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

    SANDEEP17Oct ji,
    Well said ,but can you tell what is NAAM you are talking about.?

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  5. sandeep17oct

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    Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

    We are blessed in so many ways that we have the gift of the Naam with us if we keep that in mind we will never fall astray. With His grace we know Him and He Himself separates and then reunites.
    Waheguruji Ka Khalsa. Waheguruji ki Fateh.
     
  6. sandeep17oct

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    The Naam is Waheguru.
     
  7. prakash.s.bagga

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    Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

    SANDEEP 17 Oct ji,
    Can you give any quote from Gurbani to confirm your message about NAAM as mentioned by your goodself.
    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  8. sandeep17oct

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    Prakash Ji
    Page 839, Line 18
    ਤਹੀ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਸਾਚੋ ਨਾਉ ॥
    [SIZE=+1]तही निरंजनु साचो नाउ ॥[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1]Ŧahī niranjan sācẖo nā▫o.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1]and concentrate on the pure True Name.[/SIZE]
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
     
  9. harry haller

    harry haller Chocolate-yes, religion-no, way of life-absolutely
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    Sandeepji,

    I notice you are new to Sikhism, I welcome any debate on points such as these, they further our knowledge and understanding, You are also questioning someone who has been an inspiration to my understanding of Sikhism and has done much Seva in bringing concepts and translations to this forum.

    I do not think the first posts someone new should make is a criticism of the thread discussion in a manner such as this, I detect arrogance, ego, anger, and yet in the thread question, just a desire to serve and a desire to be hunble, I hope your future contributions are a bit more positive and inclusive, rather than negative and divisive

    best wishes
     
  10. prakash.s.bagga

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    Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

    SANDEEP17Oct ji,
    This is not the answer to what asked for.

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
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  11. sandeep17oct

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    Harry Ji
    I am extremely sorry if my posts appeared arrogant and critical. As I am new please forgive my folly and I will try and be considerate in my expression.
     
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  12. sandeep17oct

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    Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

    Prakash Ji
    I dont think I am eligible to answer your query.
     
  13. harry haller

    harry haller Chocolate-yes, religion-no, way of life-absolutely
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    Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

    Sandeepji,

    Brother, now, like the rest of us, with love and humility, we can learn,

    Please feel free to likewise point out to me if you feel any of the thieves are present in my posts

    kudihug
     
  14. ravneet_sb

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    Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

    Sat Sri Akaal,

    Following reference can resolve

    naaree purakh sabaa-ee lo-ay. ||3||
    Among all the women and the men, His Light is shining
    (His is used as the author being male but jyot has no gender)

    har kay bi-og kaisay jee-a-o mayree maa-ee. 331-1
    I am separated from the Lord; how can I survive, O my mother? ||1||Pause||

    ka-un ko purakh ka-un kee naaree.
    Whose husband is he? Whose wife is she?

    araDh sareeree naar na chhodai taa tay hindoo hee rahee-ai. ||3||
    She is the other half of a man's body, and she does not leave him, so he remains a Hindu.

    saach katayb bakhaanai alhu naar purakh nahee ko-ee.
    Your holy scriptures say that Allah is True, and that he is neither male nor female.
    (Again "he" is used as the author being male but the right way can be "one" referred "is neither male nor female)

    parmaysar ditaa bannaa. 627-17
    The Transcendent Lord has given me His support.
    dukh rog kaa dayraa bhannaa.
    The house of pain and disease has been demolished.
    anad karahi nar naaree.
    The men and women celebrate.

    sunn mandal ik jogee baisay. 685-16
    The Yogi, the Primal Lord, sits within the celestial sphere of deepest Samaadhi.
    naar na purakh kahhu ko-oo kaisay.
    He is not male, and He is not female; how can anyone

    purakh meh naar naar meh purkhaa boojhhu barahm gi-aanee. 879-2
    The female is in the male, and the male is in the female. Understand this, O God-realized being!

    naaree purakh purakh sabh naaree sabh ayko purakh muraaray. 983-2
    Women and men, all the men and women, all came from the One Primal Lord God

    aapay purakh aapay hee naaree. 1020-15
    You Yourself are the male, and You Yourself are the female.

    Wheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Waheguru Ji Ki Fatheh
     
  15. prakash.s.bagga

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    Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

    From the last quote given by Ravneet Sb ji as

    "aapay Purakh aapay Naaree" pp1020-15

    It is pretty obvious that the CREATOR in Gurbani is MALE as well as FEMALE.Therefore it would be interesting to note what constitutes MALE as well FEMALE together for THE CREATOR.

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  16. harry haller

    harry haller Chocolate-yes, religion-no, way of life-absolutely
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    Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

    Prakashji,

    What constitutes male as well as female, also constitutes what is neither male, nor female, also constitutes what likes pepsi, and doesnt like pepsi,and what is neither huge, nor small, neither likes KFC, neither dislikes KFC.......... The Creator simply is everything ......inho
     
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  17. prakash.s.bagga

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    Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

    HARRY HALLAR Ji,

    Your analysis is very correct. This is why THE CREATOR in Gurbani is refered by words which are SINGULAR,COLLECTIVE NOUNS represening two things together.
    Now you can also analyse about the grammer of the word GOD and see how we can referTHE CREATOR in Gurbani as GOD.
    The word GOD is SINGULAR COMMON NOUN ,MASCULINE GENDER...........................
    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
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  18. Tejwant Singh

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    Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

    This shows how our Gurus were visionary and practiced gender equality in all aspects. The proof is that they gave both genders to Ik Ong Kaar in Gurbani. There are many Shabads in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru where Ik Ong Kaar is mentioned as Father, Mother, Sister, Brother, mate etc. etc.

    So, in order to have gender equality, The Source is explained in both genders. What a great vision of our Gurus!

    One more interesting thing to notice is that Ik Ong Kaar is addressed as Tun, Tunhee, Tera etc. etc. which in Punjabi language are singulars but in Punjabi culture, they are considered disrespectful, even insulting when addressed to our elders. We use plurals like Tusi,Tuhadei, Tuhanoo etc. etc. as a sign of reverence and respect.

    Thanks to our visionary Gurus, they only used the singular, not as a sign of an insult nor as a sign of disrespect but to breed/ create/develop closeness to Ik Ong Kaar. Hence, Ik Ong Kaar is our Father, Mother, Sister, Brother, and the most important, our Mate, our Friend.

    Tejwant Singh
     
    #18 Tejwant Singh, Nov 26, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2011
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  19. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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    Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

    Thanks Prakash S. Bagga ji, Tejwant Singh ji, Harry Haller ji.

    Fundamental reason for my initial question was that as I endevor to create some translations I am forced to ask myself whether I should use He, She, It ,etc., or cleverly avoid using any of these with words like such, so, etc.

    Perhaps we will see some practical applications of this thread when we review, comment and correct me on my effort and post of attempted and humble Gurbani translations.
    I am much happier through interactions and contributions of all in this thread.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  20. prakash.s.bagga

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    Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

    AMBARSARIA Ji,
    Well,I will always welcome and appreciate your efforts to interprate Gurbani as per grammatical considerations of the Divine Words.This would be great SEWA by your goodself and it would be my pleasure to be of any use in this regard.

    I understand you are fully capable of doing so in the larger interest of Gurbani understanding.
    With best wishes
    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
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