Islam Creation In Islam

[ekmusafir_ajnabi]

Gurfateh

Brother Aziz,

Asalaam Al Qum,

There are some Muslims who say that this version of Holy Kuran is only 1/3rd.Anyway das is more with you that what we have is OK.

We also have faith that Gurmat is from Baba Adam Ahle Sala.

have a look.

ang 1165



ਸਤਰਿ ਸੈਇ ਸਲਾਰ ਹੈ ਜਾ ਕੇ ॥
सतरि सैइ सलार है जा के ॥
Saṯar sai­ė salār hai jā kė.
He has 7,000 commanders,

ਸਵਾ ਲਾਖੁ ਪੈਕਾਬਰ ਤਾ ਕੇ ॥
सवा लाखु पैकाबर ता के ॥
Savā lākẖ paikābar ṯā kė.
and hundreds of thousands of prophets;

ਸੇਖ ਜੁ ਕਹੀਅਹਿ ਕੋਟਿ ਅਠਾਸੀ ॥
सेख जु कहीअहि कोटि अठासी ॥
Sėkẖ jo kahī­ahi kot aṯẖāsī.
He is said to have 88,000,000 shaykhs,

ਛਪਨ ਕੋਟਿ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਖੇਲ ਖਾਸੀ ॥੧॥
छपन कोटि जा के खेल खासी ॥१॥
Cẖẖapan kot jā kė kẖėl kẖāsī. ||1||
and 56,000,000 attendants. ||1||

ਮੋ ਗਰੀਬ ਕੀ ਕੋ ਗੁਜਰਾਵੈ ॥
मो गरीब की को गुजरावै ॥
Mo garīb kī ko gujrāvai.
I am meek and poor - what chance do I have of being heard there?

ਮਜਲਸਿ ਦੂਰਿ ਮਹਲੁ ਕੋ ਪਾਵੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
मजलसि दूरि महलु को पावै ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Majlas ḏūr mahal ko pāvai. ||1|| rahā­o.
His Court is so far away; only a rare few attain the Mansion of His Presence. ||1||Pause||

ਤੇਤੀਸ ਕਰੋੜੀ ਹੈ ਖੇਲ ਖਾਨਾ ॥
तेतीस करोड़ी है खेल खाना ॥
Ŧėṯīs karoṛī hai kẖėl kẖānā.
He has 33,000,000 play-houses.

ਚਉਰਾਸੀ ਲਖ ਫਿਰੈ ਦਿਵਾਨਾਂ ॥
चउरासी लख फिरै दिवानां ॥
Cẖa­urāsī lakẖ firai ḏivānāʼn.
His beings wander insanely through 8.4 million incarnations.

ਬਾਬਾ ਆਦਮ ਕਉ ਕਿਛੁ ਨਦਰਿ ਦਿਖਾਈ ॥
बाबा आदम कउ किछु नदरि दिखाई ॥
Bābā āḏam ka­o kicẖẖ naḏar ḏikẖā­ī.
He bestowed His Grace on Adam, the father of mankind,

ਉਨਿ ਭੀ ਭਿਸਤਿ ਘਨੇਰੀ ਪਾਈ ॥੨॥
उनि भी भिसति घनेरी पाई ॥२॥
Un bẖī bẖisaṯ gẖanėrī pā­ī. ||2||
who then lived in paradise for a long time. ||2||

ਦਿਲ ਖਲਹਲੁ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਜਰਦ ਰੂ ਬਾਨੀ ॥
दिल खलहलु जा कै जरद रू बानी ॥
Ḏil kẖalhal jā kai jaraḏ rū bānī.
Pale are the faces of those whose hearts are disturbed.

ਛੋਡਿ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਰੈ ਸੈਤਾਨੀ ॥
छोडि कतेब करै सैतानी ॥
Cẖẖod kaṯėb karai saiṯānī.
They have forsaken their Bible, and practice Satanic evil.

ਦੁਨੀਆ ਦੋਸੁ ਰੋਸੁ ਹੈ ਲੋਈ ॥
दुनीआ दोसु रोसु है लोई ॥
Ḏunī­ā ḏos ros hai lo­ī.
One who blames the world, and is angry with people,

ਅਪਨਾ ਕੀਆ ਪਾਵੈ ਸੋਈ ॥੩॥
अपना कीआ पावै सोई ॥३॥
Apnā kī­ā pāvai so­ī. ||3||
shall receive the fruits of his own actions. ||3||

ਤੁਮ ਦਾਤੇ ਹਮ ਸਦਾ ਭਿਖਾਰੀ ॥
तुम दाते हम सदा भिखारी ॥
Ŧum ḏāṯė ham saḏā bẖikẖārī.
You are the Great Giver, O Lord; I am forever a beggar at Your Door.

ਦੇਉ ਜਬਾਬੁ ਹੋਇ ਬਜਗਾਰੀ ॥
देउ जबाबु होइ बजगारी ॥
Ḏė­o jabāb ho­ė bajgārī.
If I were to deny You, then I would be a wretched sinner.

ਦਾਸੁ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਤੇਰੀ ਪਨਹ ਸਮਾਨਾਂ ॥
दासु कबीरु तेरी पनह समानां ॥
Ḏās Kabīr ṯėrī panah samānāʼn.
Slave Kabeer has entered Your Shelter.

ਭਿਸਤੁ ਨਜੀਕਿ ਰਾਖੁ ਰਹਮਾਨਾ ॥੪॥੭॥੧੫॥
भिसतु नजीकि राखु रहमाना ॥४॥७॥१५॥
Bẖisaṯ najīk rākẖ rehmānā. ||4||7||15||
Keep me near You, O Merciful Lord God - that is heaven for me. ||4||7||15||
Also try to read the tranlitration for Islamic terms.

Fact is both we and you Ie Sikhs and Muslim worship same God and faith is same Sanatan(Akali or eternal faith called Islam or Gurmat.

Just for the sake of fundamentalists ego people tend to fight that yours is Good or mine is good.

Kabir ji appears to be conversing with someone is saying that your are telling me your God is:

He who has seven thousand commanders, whose prophets are one and a quarter lakh. Who is said to own 88,000,000 religious learned men, and whose courtiers are 56,000,000. What chance, can I, a poor man, have of being heard there? His court is said to be so far away, how can one then find it.
Pause.
He who has thirty three millions resident servents. Eighty four million of his beings madly wander lost in his existence. When the Lord gazed a stern look at Baba Adam, evenhe had to quickly exit from paradise. (What chance do I have for staying there for a long time ?)

Pale are the faces of those, whose hearts are perturbed.They forsake their scripturers and practise evil. Then theyblames the world and are cross with the people(take anger out on people); they receive the fruit of his mis-deeds.
Kabir ji is saying that I do not need any paradise :
You are the Giver, O Lord, and I am forever a beggar at your door. (What ever you offer me is acceptable) If I were to deny it , then I would be a sinner.Kabir, Thy slave, has entered into you refuge.Keeping me near you, O Merciful Master is like heaven for me.

This shabad appears to indicates that a muslim is suggesting to Kabir to convert to Islam. The muslim is doing a show off of his God and his influence. But kabir ji is responding to the muslim by saying that I am a poor man, among all that crowd who is going to listen to my plea. He is so far away. Staying immersed in his remembrance is like heaven for me.


Your translation above by Dr Sant Singh Khalsa is incomplete.

Regard

ekmusafir_ajnabi

 

[azizrasul]

The above quotes from the Quran clearly show that the Quran's version of Cosmic science is greatly flawed.

Exactly what do you mean? I’m a bit confused by what u r getting at. If u can clarify, then hopefully I can answer.

If "science" explains that the universe was gaseous. And the Qur'an says that the universe was as smoke....so what does that imply?

That God’s science and His scripture agree.

Was the universe created randomly or divinely guided? Were you and I created simply by cellular division or was there some divine intervention?

divinely guided & divine intervention. I’ll talk about the creation of man at a later stage.

Is your focus on the process of creation or on the creator of the universe?

creator of the universe

Assuming that you believe in a divine creator, what do you believe his purpose was in creating the universe and mankind?

Purpose of our creation is to

Who has created death and life, that He may test you, which of you is best in conduct; and He is the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgiving;
Qur’an - Surah at-Talaaq (Divorce) 67:2 See also 6:18.

 

[Astroboy]

Azizrasul,
You are no advocate in Cosmology, whether in the eyes of Islam or any other way. How can you come up with such a lame excuse that you don't understand. This is definitely not a scholarly approach. I wonder if the contents in Your Book are entirely borrowed without your real understanding what is written.

 

[spnadmin]

Creation in Sikhi

According to Bhai Gurdas, Nanaak gave this account of Creation

Varr 1 – Pauri 4 – Creation - Bhai Gurdas

EAMkwr Awkwr kr eyk kvwau pswau pswrw]
ouankaar aakaar kar eaek kavaao pasaao pasaaraa||
All prevading Oankar through His One Word created the whole expansive cosmos.
Line 1
pMc q`q prvwn kr Gt Gt AMdr iqRBvn swrw]
panch thaath paravaan kar ghatt ghatt andhar thribhavan saaraa||
Through the five elements, as the quintessence He permeated in the three worlds and their denominations.
Line 2
kwdr ikny n liKAw kudrq swj kIAw Avqwrw]
kaadhar kinae n lakhiaa kudharath saaj keeaa avathaaraa||
That creator could not be seen by anyone who to expand Himself created the infinite nature(prakrti).
Line 3
iekdUM kudrq l`K kr l`K ibAMq AsMK Apwrw]
eikadhoon kudharath laakh kar laakh bianth asankh apaaraa||
He made myriad forms of nature.
Line 4
rom rom ivc riKEn kr bRhmMf kroV Sumwrw]
rom rom vich rakhioun kar brehamandd karorr shumaaraa||
In His each one hair He gathered up millions of worlds.
Line 5
ieks ieks bRhmMf ivc ds ds kr AOqwr auqwrw]
eikas eikas brehamandd vich dhas dhas kar aathaar outhaaraa||
And then in one universe He comes in tens of forms.
Line 6
kyqy byd ibAws kr keI kqyb mhMmd Xwrw]
kaethae baedh biaas kar kee kathaeb mehanmadh yaaraa||
He has created many a dear personality such as Vedavyas and Muhammad dear to the Vedas and the Katebas respectively.
Line 7
kudrq iek eyqw pwswrw ]ô]
kudharath eik eaethaa paasaaraa ||a||
How wonderfully the one nature has been expanded into many.
Line 8

Notice that this Creation story is so different from any other you have read. God does not dramatize His persona in this story - He Creates - And the pervasive theme is about His divine nature and His appreciation for what He has created - He seems to really like the result - A God who nurtures - A God who is not bombastic - Not forbidding. Read more
Source: http://www.searchgurbani.com/main.php?book=bhai_gurdas_vaaran&action=pauripage&vaar=1&pauri=4

 

[azizrasul]

You are no advocate in Cosmology, whether in the eyes of Islam or any other way. How can you come up with such a lame excuse that you don't understand. This is definitely not a scholarly approach. I wonder if the contents in Your Book are entirely borrowed without your real understanding what is written.

If it is not a scholarly approach, then why are you afraid to point exactly what you earlier thought was flawed. Surely by avoiding any discussion u r effectively turning ur back to any scholarly discussion.

As far as understanding what is written, I do understand, but I'm not being challenged on this forum on the verses least by u who simply make statements then refuse to discuss or let me interact. This only shows that all u r doing is copying something from somewhere without understanding anything yourself and then when challenged u have nothing to offer.

The science bit that I am giving stems from the book The Bible, Quran and Science by Dr. Maurice Bucaille. It can be read here online.

In His each one hair He gathered up millions of worlds.

How does this relate to the science of creation? BTW ur link didn't work. Can u have a look and repost it?

 

[GURVINDER]

DEAR BROTHER WHAT U WILL DO BY KNOWING THE BIG BANG THEORY I ACCEPT THAT IT IS THERE IN THE HOLY QUIRAN . I M ALSO A LISTNER OF SPEAKERS OF COMPARATIVE RELIGIONS ONE OF THE GOOD EXAMPLE IS DR ZAKIR NAIK PRESIDENT OF IRF BUT A THEORY WILL NOT LET U TO HEAVEN BROTHER U SHOULD DO 5 TIME NAMAJ DAILY BECOME A GOOD PERSON FOR OTHERS ,SEE EVERYONE AS YOUR BROTHER
HUAMANITY IS OUR FIRST RELIGION THISE IS NOT RIGHT PLACE FOR DAWAAH

 

[azizrasul]

I pray 5 times a day and I treat people that I'm in contact with in a good way as well. The point of the thread is to discuss a specific issue i.e. compare creation btween Islam\Sikhism\Science\Hinduism\etc.

For example what do the Hindu scriptures say about th moment of creation of the universe?

Why is this not the place for dawah. Is this not a religious discussion forum? I am after all in the Interfaith section. Why have this if we can't discuss.

 

[azizrasul]

The Qur'an also tells us that the universe is expanding.

“The heaven, We have built it with (Our creative) power. Verily, it is We who are steadily expanding[1] it.”
Qur’an - Surah az-Zaariyat (The Winnowing Winds) 51:47

[1] Edwin Powell Hubble (1889 -1953) was able to establish in 1929 that the galaxies were moving away from us and thus we had an expanding universe. This was a momentous discovery towards understanding the origins and current state of the universe.

 

[Astroboy]

do u believe allah has created this universe?

 

[azizrasul]

Yes. He created the particle that began the whole thing. From the moment that the particle erupted or blew assunder, the universe has continued to expand.

 

[spnadmin]

You are right Gurvinder ji,

We do not discover Truth in a forum on the Internet.

 

[Astroboy]

and this earth with all its living and non living things?

 

[azizrasul]

Allah is the Creator (Khaliq). Everything you can see\hear\touch etc. is created by God.

 

[Astroboy]

does allah loves his creation that he has made?

 

[azizrasul]

There is an attribute of God called Wadud, The Loving. However there are passages in the Qur'an where God hates certain actions made by men.

On a general basis whether God loves His creation, I would need to search the Qur'an to find out.

What did you think of the Qur'anic verse concerning the expanding heavens?

 

[Astroboy]

I need to know if Allah loves His creation that he made.
i mean all his creation?

About the Quranic verse concerning expanding heavens? I don't know much about it. But my question first.

 

[azizrasul]

The definition of DISCUSSION is:

when people talk about something and tell each other their ideas or opinions:

How about u getting involved. This is not ask TWENTY questions but a debate. I have given verses relating to

1. Moment of creation
2. Gaseous universe
3. Expanding universe

What r ur views on any of these? Or as I suspect ur not up to it?

 

[Astroboy]

Is there any verse in the Quran that says that Allah loves all of HIS creation ?

I will come to your 3 points at a later stage.
1. Moment of creation
2. Gaseous universe
3. Expanding universe

But I need to know if your mind applies to logic or not. Important for me to know whom I;m debating with.
On my above question, you can simply answer YES or NO, according to your own beliefs. Bear with me and we will will soon be on our way for your debate.

 

[azizrasul]

The debate began some time ago. Get with it.

I remember asking you what u thought about the word Day. I don't remember u even answering that?

 

[azizrasul]

Come to the point now if u want to be serious contender.

Why r u afraid?
What r u afraid of?