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Could this article be describing Hukam?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Ishna, Dec 14, 2014.

  1. Ishna

    Ishna
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    Free Will Is an Illusion, so What?
    What are the implications?
    Published on May 8, 2012 by Raj Raghunathan, Ph.D. in Sapient Nature

    Think of someone that you dislike. Let’s call this person X. Now, imagine that you were born with X’s “genetic material.” That is, imagine that you had X’s looks, body odor, inherent tastes, intelligence, aptitudes, etc. Imagine, further, that you had X’s upbringing and life-experiences as well; so, imagine that you had X’s parents growing up, and that you grew up in the same country, city, and neighborhood in which X grew up, etc.
    Would behave any differently from how X behaves?

    Most people realize, perhaps after a moment of startled pause, that the answer to the question is “No.”

    The question helps people realize that their thoughts and actions are determined entirely by their genetic and social conditioning. In other words, it helps people intuitively grasp the idea that free will is an illusion.

    ver the past few decades, gathering evidence from both psychology and the neurosciences has provided convincing support for the idea that free will is an illusion. (Read this and this, but for a contrarian view, also read this.) Of course, most people can’t relate to the idea that free will is an illusion, and there’s a good reason why. It feels as if we exercise free will all the time. For instance, it seems that you are exercising free will in choosing to read this article. Similarly, it seems that you exercise free will when you deny yourself the pleasure of eating tasty-but-unhealthy food, or when you overcome laziness to work out at the gym.

    But these choices do not necessarily reflect free will. To understand why, consider why you sometimes deny yourself an unhealthy-but-tasty snack. It’s because you were, at some point in your life, made to recognize the long-term negative effects of eating such food. Perhaps you noticed that consuming unhealthy food makes you feel heavy, or that regularly consuming such food makes your blood pressure shoot up. Or perhaps your doctor told you that you need to stop eating unhealthy food; or maybe you read about the negative effects of consuming unhealthy food in a magazine. In other words, you deny yourself the pleasure of consuming unhealthy food because of exposure to external inputs—feedback from your body or from others—over which you had no control. Had you been exposed to a different set of inputs—e.g., despite consuming unhealthy food, your health did not suffer, or your doctor never dissuaded you from eating unhealthy food—you wouldn’t deny yourself the pleasure of eating tasty-but-unhealthy food.

    If you think carefully about any decision you have made in the past, you will recognize that all of them were ultimately based on similar—genetic or social—inputs to which you had been exposed. And you will also discover that you had no control over these inputs, which means that you had no free will in taking the decisions you did. For instance, you had no choice in where, to whom, and in what period of time, you were born. You also had no choice in the kind of neighbors and friends to whom you were exposed during early childhood. You therefore had no choice in how you made your decisions during that time.

    It might seem, at first blush, that many of the decisions you made later—during late childhood or adolescence—were based on free will, but that is not the case. The decisions you made during late childhood and adolescence were based on the tastes, opinions, and attitudes you had developed in your early childhood, and on those to which you were exposed through your family, friends, media, or the natural environment. And so on, which means that the decision you now make are based on the tastes, opinions and attitudes you have developed over the years or on those to which you are now exposed through contact with the external environment. Looked at in this light, belief in free will is itself a consequence of genetic and social inputs: without the development of the neocortex and without exposure to the idea of free will from societal inputs, we wouldn't believe in free will.

    Thus, although it might seem like you exercise free will in overcoming temptations or in overriding self-centered interests, this is not the case. Free will is equally uninvolved when you give into temptations and when you curb them.

    If free will is an illusion, what are the implications? How should we think or behave differently?

    There are two incorrect and two correct conclusions to which most people arrive when they are introduced to the idea that free will is an illusion. The first incorrect conclusion to which many people arrive is the following: “if free will is an illusion, it is OK for me to give into my impulses and temptations.” Several studies have shown that when people are told that free will is an illusion, they are more likely to cheat and less likely to work hard. It is easy to understand why people have this reaction to the idea that free will is an illusion: if giving into temptations is no more or no less an act of free will than is curbing them, why struggle to overcome the temptations?

    This way of thinking, however, is incorrect because, although curbing temptations doesn’t involve the free will, the consequences from curbing temptations are very different from those that arise from giving into them. Thus, whether or not you act of out of free will in denying yourself the unhealthy-but-tasty cake, you will still have to face the health consequences of eating unhealthy meals. Likewise, whether or not you acted out of free will in committing a crime, you will still have to face the consequences of your misdeeds. So, from a purely consequentialist perspective, it makes sense to sometimes curb your temptations.

    The second incorrect conclusion to which people arrive is related to the first: “if free will is an illusion, there is no use in punishing wrong-doers.” Again, it is easy to see why people think this way. If others did not have a choice in how they behaved, how can they be held culpable? However, although wrong-doers did not have a choice in how they behaved, their behavior still has real and important consequences for the others around them. And more importantly, we know that one of the ways of changing people’s behaviors is by exposing them to a set of external inputs—including punishments—that steer them in a different direction.

    Thus, it makes sense to mete out punishments to wrong-doers, so as to dissuade them from committing similar types of misdeeds in the future.
    This brings me to the first of the two correct conclusions to which people should—but rarely do—arrive after realizing that free will is an illusion.

    This conclusion concerns how we treat others for their misdeeds. Although, for reasons explained above, it is important to punish wrong-doers, those who realize that free will is an illusion should mete out the punishments with compassion. Understanding that free will is an illusion means recognizing that people behave in the only way they know how. As such, it is important to realize that, when people act in harmful ways, it is because they are ignorant of the forces that actually shape their thoughts and behaviors.

    There are two main reasons why one should be compassionate even towards those who commit misdeeds, such as hurting others. First, those who commit misdeeds are also hurting themselves. As results from research on emotions show, selfish or hurtful acts generally stem from emotional negativity. In other words, it is those feeling angry, insecure, and stressed—and not those feeling happy, secure and relaxed—who are likely to behave badly. And second, those who behave badly are setting themselves up for negative outcomes in the future. In other words, because those who commit misdeeds are currently suffering from emotional negativity or will suffer from negative outcomes in the future, one should be compassionate towards them.

    The second implication centers on the attributions that one should make for one’s successes and failures. As is well known, people generally tend to take credit for their successes, and tend to blame others or the circumstances for their failures.

    Those who recognize that free will is an illusion will realize that their successes and failures have much more to do with “luck”—the set of genetic and social inputs to which they have been randomly exposed—than with their “self developed” talents and consciously-made choices. Crediting luck for one’s successes leads one to experience an entirely different set of emotions—gratitude, elevation, love, etc.—than does taking personal credit for them. Likewise, recognizing the role of the inputs that led to failures promotes learning and wisdom. By contrast, blaming others for failures leads to the experience of anger, and the sense of entitlement that, as I discussed in an earlier article, leads to negative consequences and divisiveness.

    So, overall, contrary to what one may initially think, realizing that free will is an illusion should lead to greater maturity, compassion, and emotional stability. Hopefully, the ideas in this article serve as the external inputs that steer you in this positive direction.

    Source: Psychology Today
     
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  3. Gourav sharma

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    It's a matter of perception.

    In which state are we. If body is taken as a chariot & mind it's charioteer and the soul as the consciousness
    Mind play an impotant role . Whether it is entangled with body or soul . If to body then it seems our will is on
    the external inputs but if it is entangled to soul it seems that we have a choice .

    All living beings are bound in nature but human beings are free to some extent . A fish have no choice to get out of water and be on ground but can go anywhere in water.

    if there are two paths one leading to external worldly affairs and another to the internal soul where even the thoughts ceases to be . I am free to chose ..
     
  4. Sherdil

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    You feel you have a choice because of Haumai, literally meaning "I am". Eradication of Haumai reveals there is no I, you, me, he, she, etc. There is only the One. So it is not you who is making the choice, rather it is the One who is acting.
     
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  5. Ishna

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    Sherdil Ji

    Yet again this brings up the issue of cruelty. Who is it exactly that is acting cruelly towards another?
     
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  6. Sherdil

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    GGS, page 251:

     
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  7. Gourav sharma

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    Sherdil ji

    What as per my experience and understanding "i am" represent 'haumai' is a state of mind.

    When i was unaware of gurbani then to me i was used for this body.In that state of mind my mind was entangled with my body only and there was no awareness of the invisible soul. After hearing lectures of a great scholar of gurbani there happen a lot of changes in my thoughts or mind.when i become aware of some invisible soul by concentrating on myself the meaning of i got totally changed now 'i' remain to me as just an indication to my body only.


    A ring made of gold could be called as gold but to represent it we named it a ring . A tiny fraction of water taken from sea named as a drop.

    For a person who is entangled to this body only for him or her "i am " would act as 'haumai' but for those whose mind get entangled with soul for them i,you ,he ,she etc are just used to indicate someone physically. This is as per my mind understanding but there could be a more better view....
     
  8. Gourav sharma

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    What i think just like the glass mirror to see the physical body our concentration is the mirror to see what exactly we are and when our concentration will reach the soul then may all questions get cleared or maybe there remains not a single question when we will reach there.
    As the saints say that we got god not by thoughts or mind . Being thoughtless only god exist and we loose our identity...our thoughts were the only barrier otherwise god is omnipresent.
     
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  9. chazSingh

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    if we really sit down and contemplate this...

    how often do we really make free will choices...
    we can only ever be conscious of a couple of things at any given time...so many of our ideas, thoughts, temptations seem to just sprout out of nowhere....our subconscious...and turn into actions...

    we think...oh look "i had some sort of choice" so i am acting in free will...but often there are underlying reasons why we made certain choices...

    a person who suffers from anxiety can often allow those over heightened emotions to make the decisions for them...they don;t even have to think about it..

    whats to say this doesn't affect our decision making when we pick what drink to chose from Costa Coffee? every decision we make seems to have a set of underlying emotions, life experiences, reasoning behind them, that within a split second have pointed you in making the decision you have made...

    True free-will can only occur when the effects of the mind and what it stores very deep within are reduced....

    once this happens or begins to happen...Free will blossoms forth...with no influence by the yapping mind and it's endless bombardment of thoughts...

    the Ego drops, God manifests and we see the drama in the world for what it is...countless souls trapped by the mind...wondering around aimlessly and a few souls that come once in a while trying to awaken them, so that true free will can manifest in everyone...

    so that we see God in all...and treat each other like God in all..
     
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  10. Sherdil

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    There is no free will. That is what the shabadh I posted is getting at. There are quite a few shabadhs I was considering, but I picked that one because it is the shortest.

    The following is not a shabadh:

    He Himself is the potter
    He Himself is the clay
    He Himself is the master
    He Himself is the servant
    He Himself is the sinner
    He Himself is the saint
    He Himself is the hunter
    He Himself is the hunted

    This is His khel (play)

    This brother explains it beautifully. :wahmunda:

    <iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/6XJEpIxTwn0" allowfullscreen="" width="560" frameborder="0" height="315"></iframe>
     
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    #9 Sherdil, Dec 19, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2014
  11. Gourav sharma

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    If there is no choice then how karma philosophy would be validated. As so sow so shall you reap.

    If god himself is in sin actions then what is the need of avtaars to come and teach people to follow the right path to get salvation.

    salok.

    pvxu gurU pwxI ipqw mwqw Driq mhqu ]
    Air is the Guru, Water is the Father, and Earth is the Great Mother of all.
    pavan guroo paanee pitaa maataa Dharat mahat.

    idvsu rwiq duie dweI dwieAw KylY sgl jgqu ]
    Day and night are the two nurses, in whose lap all the world is at play.
    divas raat du-ay daa-ee daa-i-aa khaylai sagal jagat.

    cMigAweIAw buirAweIAw vwcY Drmu hdUir ]
    Good deeds and bad deeds-the record is read out in the Presence of the Lord of Dharma.
    chang-aa-ee-aa buri-aa-ee-aa vaachai Dharam hadoor.

    krmI Awpo AwpxI ky nyVY ky dUir ]
    According to their own actions, some are drawn closer, and some are driven farther away.
    karmee aapo aapnee kay nayrhai kay door.

    ijnI nwmu iDAwieAw gey mskiq Gwil ]
    Those who have meditated on the Naam, the Name of the Lord, and departed after having worked by the sweat of their brows
    jinee naam Dhi-aa-i-aa ga-ay maskat ghaal.

    nwnk qy muK aujly kyqI CutI nwil ]1]
    -O Nanak, their faces are radiant in the Court of the Lord, and many are saved along with them! ||1||
    naanak tay mukh ujlay kaytee chhutee naal. ||1||

    The sacred shalok of shri Guru Nanak Dev ji describing clearly that

    ""__According to their own actions, some are drawn closer, and some are driven farther away.
    karmee aapo aapnee kay nayrhai kay door__.""

    Many questions arises in mind and lead to some misconceptions ,if without god will no action could happen then some people ask when god will want we will go to gurudwara,when god will want we will recite the naam.

    There are many shaloks in which it is described that everything is in his hand ,every action happen because of him.

    There are a lots of question regarding this arises. When i hear some lectures of the great scholar giani sant singh maskeen ji problems get solved

    As per maskeen ji

    Just like due to the sun the seasons exist, if saints said that everything is in god hand it is in the sense that the freedom to choose right or wrong path is also given by God. So every thing is in his hand...... saints come on earth to teach people the true path so that they may not be on wrong path and loose the chance to get united with god......

    What a great line is HE IS THE MAKER OF PAINTING. HE IS NOT THE PAINTING...
    most people spend their life in worshipping the painting without worshipping the painter.....

    There are two ONE IS TRUTH OTHER IS MYTH.....TRUTH IS THE CREATOR OF MYTH HE HIMSELF IS NOT IN MYTH......
     
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  12. Sherdil

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    Hinduism teaches about avtaars and devtas, but who is it that controls them? Even they are subject to the Hukam. That is why Sikhs do not believe they are worthy of worship. Only the One who is writing the Hukam is worthy of reverence.

    God Himself is Dharam Raj (The Lord of Dharma). He is also subject to the Hukam, just like we all are. He doesn't exist as a separate entity.

    Karma is like the fuel the driver puts in his car. On his way to the destination, the driver burns the fuel off. But who is driving the car? If you say the driver, then that is Haumai. God is controlling the actions the driver.

    He Himself is the accused. He Himself is the judge.

    GGS, page 337:

    Next you say...

    That is not the correct analogy for God and creation. Once the painting is finished, it exists separately from the painter. God is Karta Purakh, which means He is actively involved with the creation. The correct analogy is that of a dancer and a dance. The dance cannot exist without the dancer. The dancer is actively creating the dance while dancing. Once the dancer stops, the dance ends.

    GGS, page 1021:


     
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    #11 Sherdil, Dec 20, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  13. Scarlet Pimpernel

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    Veera a painting possesses the spirit of the painter forever,reverence is usually a good state to adopt and more becoming than indifference.
     
    #12 Scarlet Pimpernel, Dec 22, 2014
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