Contradictions Of Opinion

[carolineislands]

how then can one get closer to quench this ever-present desire ?

By continuing to express your love? Continue until you dissolve into that expression...

I have a very wonderful husband and he has taught me so much about love. He is always kind to me, accepting of me, understanding, attentive, and has never put his own needs before mine. I am humbled by him and I've learned a few things about getting closer to God from him. It's nearly impossible to resist loving someone who loves you the way my husband loves me. So it is with God -- how could I not love such a Guru? When I turn my mind in to Him and lose myself in that love there is nothing but Him. There is no time or place or me or Him or the World of This & That... there is just this matchless, all pervading, inexplicable... well I can't explain it because it's inexplicable. All I know is that every time it happens I want it to last forever. And I live in a constant state of desire from one of these moments until the next.

Oh, and JMHO means "just my humble opinion."

 

[Astroboy]

By continuing to express your love? Continue until you dissolve into that expression...
And I live in a constant state of desire from one of these moments until the next.

Oh, and JMHO means "just my humble opinion."

Thank you for such a lovely and thoughful expression of emotions and JMHO.

 

[Astroboy]

My next question is -
What's wrong in accepting Dalits into the fold of Sikhism ?

Why won't the Sikh authorities in Punjab (Akaal Takht) made this decision ?

 

[Astroboy]

Belittling the Caste-System

A Gateway to Sikhism | Guru Stories:Belittling the Caste-System - A Gateway to Sikhism

Guru Nanak Dev disparagingly condemned caste-prejudices. To do away with this social malady he set an example. He visited Bhai Lalo an 'out-caste', and both had their meals together, giving a shocking surprise to the village-folk. Moreover, Mardana, the life-long companion of Guru Sahib was minstrel, coming from 'low-caste'.​

 

[Archived_Member4]

namjap
who told you or where did you read that dalits are not accepted into Sikhism?????

 

[Astroboy]

At what rate are new converts being brought into the fold of Sikhism and cite case examples not hearsay. Provide links.

 

[Archived_Member4]

See namjap a Sikh will never try to convert someone of one religion to another. One of the Sikhs missions is to teach humanity about Sikhism and if by these teachings that person chooses to accept Sikhism that is great. People ask for links for source of proof but one of the greatest links we have is our mind and the Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

 

[Astroboy]

namjap
who told you or where did you read that dalits are not accepted into Sikhism?????

Your answer does not reflect your above-mentioned quote. Are you contradicting yourself ?

 

[Archived_Member4]

namjap
How am I contradicting myself? I simply asked you a question without out taking a side on the issue. Then I told you a Sikh will never convert someone of one religion to another. So please explain to me where I contradicted myself in these two comments

 

[Astroboy]

See namjap a Sikh will never try to convert someone of one religion to another. One of the Sikhs missions is to teach humanity about Sikhism and if by these teachings that person chooses to accept Sikhism that is great. People ask for links for source of proof but one of the greatest links we have is our mind and the Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

Singh Ji,

The greatest link we have is our mind and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Please elaborate why we are given a mind. If we are not the mind, then who are we ?

 

[Archived_Member4]

namjap
who are we? We are body, mind and spirit

 

[Astroboy]

See namjap a Sikh will never try to convert someone of one religion to another. One of the Sikhs missions is to teach humanity about Sikhism and if by these teachings that person chooses to accept Sikhism that is great. People ask for links for source of proof but one of the greatest links we have is our mind and the Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

Can you give reference from SGGS that we are body, mind and spirit ?

 

[Archived_Member4]

At the moment I cannot and when I do come across it in SGGS I will put it on this thread.

 

[Astroboy]

Is there a bridging proposal for Dalits to adopt the Sikh way of life by allowing gradual changes from their current lifestyle. By this I mean to improve their traditional habits in a step by step way. If there is such an attempt to accept them, then what would be the capacity of inflow of new sikhs from this Dalit caste ?

Is there a restriction by the Indian constitution of mass conversion to Sikhism ?

 

[spnadmin]

Nam Jap ji

I am not missing the subtle parts of your questions. They are all very good and probing. But there is actually a example in real-time that is related to the question you are asking.

There was a proposal by SGPC to admit Sanatan Sikhs into the fold. Sanatan Sikhs historically have been largely members of the Dalit caste. This is going back a few centuries. The proposal was made in April or so a year ago. I am not 100 percent certain of the timing of this. The argument was that Sikhs should and could increase their numbers by forgetting historical differences and religious differences that were part of ancient history. This move many said would be good for everyone. It would improve the political standing of Sikhs in India and it would demonstrate that Sikhism is a religion that embraces many different groups. Now a year later what has happened with this proposal? Do we hear anything about it any more? No. Now once again Sanatans are being characterized as "out of the fold" for their heresies.

My personal opinion is irrelevant. I have some questions however.

It seems that an older frame of mind dominates the discussion of who is and who is not a Sikh. Yet exclusion by caste goes against the core values of Sikhi. I am well aware of the religious reasons given to exclude Sanatans. Moreover, in day to day life contact with Dalits is kept to a minimum. Only this week there was yet another story of an honor killing in India. A young Sikh woman was caught with her Dalit boyfriend. She was beaten unconscious and the burned to death by her family.

Tell this moorath Westerner then what are the ways in which Dalits can be included if not welcomed. If not conversion, if not evangelism, then what? If not Dalits, then what about others? How do others find their way to the fold?

 

[Archived_Member4]

Add ji
I see you have gone to the extent of name calling on this discussion. Surely you should know that this is against Sikhism and the same with anger. I even waited a couple of weeks for you to realize this yourself, but surely you have not done so.

Now to get back on the topic; my whole point here is that a person cannot be converted into Sikhism. Sikhism is a way of life and either you follow it or you don’t. Once the Sikh knows that he/she is capable of this lifestyle, then that Sikh can take Amrit and become a true Sikh while still obeying to the lifestyle.

 

[spnadmin]

Singh ji

You must have missed my reply of May 3 -- because it was erased during the forum software upgrade. Calm down! Your previous comment in which you apparently thought I was calling you names was also erased. Reread what I said. I was calling myself a "moorath" and a "Westerner". Not you. I don't even know you.

 

[Archived_Member4]

Tell this moorath Westerner then what are the ways in which Dalits can be included if not welcomed. If not conversion, if not evangelism, then what? If not Dalits, then what about others? How do others find their way to the fold?

add ji this above quote was written by you. This quote clearly states you called me a moorath westerner, even though i do not know what it means, but it was meant as an insult by you. If you had called yourself one you would have said, 'tell me, the moorath westerner.....

I hold nothing against you everyone makes a mistake for we all are human.

 

[futurekaur]

SinghJi;
when I read the post I took it as AntoniaJi speaking about herself; this is a poetic-rhetorical device. So she omitted the 'You' as in 'You tell this moorath Westerner....''
I see this as the problem inherent in ethnic religion. Maybe when young generations living outside India grow up, when global Sikhs are considered mainstream-normal, caste will be meaningless.

 

[Archived_Member4]

Futurekaur ji, you amuse me by this poetic rhetorical device comment lol. I wish I had more time to sit and listen, but I have to get some sleep it is 11pm where I live and I need my sleep. Catch up with you guys on the fill side. Peace