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Christianity Contradictions in Bible ???

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by Neutral Singh, Sep 10, 2004.

  1. Neutral Singh

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    Hi

    i will be occasionally posting some of the famous contradictions in Bible under this thread... although it would be cut and paste job on my part as i only know about bible through these forums...

    i would like the learned Christian members to explain the verses and how they are out of context and refute them rationally.

    Best Regards
     
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  3. Neutral Singh

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    God good to all, or just a few?

    PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.


    JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
     
  4. Neutral Singh

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    Who is the father of Joseph?

    MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.


    LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.
     
  5. Rajs

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    Neutral Singh,

    I don't know to what extent you ignorance can be excused, but once again, I will at least try to point out your mistakes:

    1. Jeremiah 13:14 is a part of scriptures that is expressing God's judgment on the Israelites, who were God's chosen people to be priests and a holy nation. (Exodus 19:5) NO IDOLATERY was the second command stated in the Ten Commandments. Therefore, after repeated warnings, God judges his "holy" nation, which you can read few verses earlier. Jeremiah 13:14 is an indictment on the Jews for their behaviour as stated in Jeremiah 13:10 "These wicked people, who refuse to listen to my words, who follow the stubbornness of their hearts and and go after other gods to serve and worship them."

    2. The genealogy of Jesus as mentioned in Matthew and Luke is traced from two different lineages. Matthew through Joseph's and Luke through Mary's. For further details and a clear explanation, visit http://www.acns.com/~mm9n/Genealogy/cha4.htm.

    If you still have trouble understanding, please send Mr. Ninan an email and he will be more than happy to rectify your ignorance.

    Regards
    Rajs
     
  6. Neutral Singh

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    Who was at the Empty Tomb? Is it:

    MAT 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
    MAR 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

    JOH 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
     
  7. Neutral Singh

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    Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?

    JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.

    JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
     
  8. Rajs

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    Neutral Singh,



    Mark (70 A.D.), Matthew (80 A.D.), Luke (90 A.D.), and John (90-105 A.D.) known as the “the Gospels” were written by four different people at four different time for different group of people. For e.g.
    Gospel according to Mark was directed at Jewish people.

    Gospel according to Matthew for Jewish Christian converts.

    Gospel according to Luke was directed at Gentile believers.

    Gospel according to John was an evangelical document directed at unbelievers.



    Who or how many went to Jesus’ tomb is not the point of the scriptures but that, empty tomb was “witnessed”. The omission of names or mention of names is not contradictory but depends on the author’s purpose. For. e.g. Mark and John do not mention the birth of Jesus but Luke provides more detailed version of Jesus’ birth in comparison to Matthew.



    The four gospels are not identical in details because the reason of their writing was different and they were directed at different audiences. Finally, Luke’s account that you seem to have missed (for whatever reason) clarifies what I am saying - “On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb.” (Luke 24:1) Who and how many went is not the purpose of writing the account but that there were witnesses.



    In your case, perhaps, this can be further understood by account of Guru Nanak’s disappearance for three days. Follow along with me as I provide you with few of the various accounts of this incident as circulated among Sikhs:



    Early one morning accompanied by Mardana, Guru Nanak went to the river Bain for his bath. After plunging into the river, Guru Nanak did not surface and it was reported that he must have drowned. (http://www.sikhs.org/guru1.htm)



    The Janamsakhis narrate that one morning, Guru Nanak went to bathe in the neighboring river called Baeen. While bathing he disappeared in water and remained as such for three days - Some writers say that after taking the bath in the river, he went to the nearby forest. (http://www.searchsikhism.com/nanak1.html#_ftn6)



    By all accounts, 1496 was the year of his enlightenment when he started on his mission. (http://www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/gurus/nanak1.html)



    It was in 1499 that the day of destiny of ecstatic communion with God came. While taking his daily bath in the rivulet Bain that flows near Sultanpur. (http://allaboutsikhs.com/history/his0915.htm)



    At the age of 38, in August 1507, Guru Nanak Sahib heard God 's call to dedicate himself to the service of humanity after bathing in "Vain Nadi" (a small river) Near Sultanpur Lodhi. (http://www.sgpc.net/gurus/gurunanak.asp)

    One day after bathing Nanak disappeared in the forest. (http://www.sacred-texts.com/skh/tsr1/tsr106.htm)

    Now, would you be kind enough to clarify above-mentioned discrepancies and perhaps set the record straight as per Guru Granth Sahib? Or would you like to take an issue with the authors regarding the lack of consistency? Awaiting your explanation with great anticipation.






    Moving on, let’s look at John 10:30 and John 14:28.



    Jesus’ statement “I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30) is directed at Jewish religious authorities, who questioned him; “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” (John 10:24) Jesus is telling them that He is the Christ, who they were expecting. Jesus, as Christ, is one with the Father – in Spirit, Character and Purpose. In other words, He is God because no human can be one in Spirit, Character and purpose with God. The Jews immediately understood this and “picked up stones to stone him.” (John 10:31)



    Jesus’ statement “Father is greater than I” (John 14:28) is directed at the twelve disciples during one of his private discourse with them. The disciples, unlike Jewish authorities, had understood that Jesus was one with God in divine purpose but it was Jesus' human purpose they did not fully comprehend. Jesus is explaining that he is on earth in human body as God’s servant to carry out a mission – to die for the sins of the world and after that he has to return to God the Father and take up his divine nature once again which He relinquished as per God’s will. “After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.” (Hebrews 1:3) So, it is in his human nature, though sinless, Jesus is lesser than God, the Father.



    Jesus, the Son, and God, the Father, are “one” (equal) in divine nature and purpose. However, they are separate (unequal) in the sense that Jesus became human and identified himself with sinful nature of mankind. Therefore, Jesus in divine nature is same as God, but God is greater then Jesus, in human nature, though without sin.



    Regards

    Rajs
     
  9. drkhalsa

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    dear Rajs

    I have recently read your post they quite stimulating for my brain as it makes me think a lot thanks for your post.
    but fortunately or unfortunately i was born in a time and place (1980 punjab) that i had little exposure to you rfaith (christianity) but i have actively tried learn about this and many other religions (bhuddism jainism islam) but my knowledge in not much as i think i wanted some things to be clearified

    1 what do you think is should be aim of our life as i think it is to be one with god what do you think
    2 As jesus has said I am the way does this mean he is the only way
    3 if yes then i means that any other religious leader or preacher like muhammed, nanak , buddha were a) just nonsense personality disorders
    or b) god was some how happy with them due to thier efforts or what ever so made them one with himself but they were not the way for others
    or c) they may some how have been in contact with jesus through bible or some other means
    I have many more quetions that i would like to ask but it is good to start with few


    Also i want to share my views regarding the your above post about enlightment of guru nanak i think you made a mistake in doing so as you have referred various sources these are the various sites and sources of general information for public and not the religious text like gospels .What i mean is inconsistence in gospels is totally different thing and of these sources totally different , but you are most welcome to point out same type of inconsistences in our religious text (GURU GRANTH SAHIB)

    I again want to remind you that my enquiry is not critical one but that of a learner as want to look at everything objectively just not to stand on one side defending it and critisizing the other side
     
  10. Rajs

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    Dear Drkhalsa,

    All these so called contradictions have been concocted without proper study and understanding. Furthermore, quoting words out of context can turn any statement contradictory. Here are few examples from Guru Granth Sahib for you to contemplate, which can easily be turned into “inconsistencies” if one was to follow the logic or criterion used by Mr. Neutral Singh in his postings in this thread:


    Guru Arjan says, ”Aapeh paap punn bisthaaraa.”
    Does Sikhism teach that God distribute both sins and good deeds?



    Kabir says, ”Paap punn du-ay ayk samaan.”

    Does it mean that in Sikhism to sin is same as doing good?

    Guru Nanak says, “Karnee baajhahu bhisat na paa-ay”
    Kabir says, “Kavan narak ki-aa surag bichaaraa santan do-oo raaday”
    Kabir says that Saints reject heaven but Nanak says one cannot attain heaven without good works?

    Guru Nanak says, “suni-ai dookh paap kaa naas.”
    He also says, “ko-ay na kaatai avgun mayray.”
    Does listening to God’s name remove sins or does it not?

    Guru Nanak says, “laykhaa iko aavhu jaahu.”
    Guru Arjan says, “aap bhulaa-ay naankaa pach pach jonee paahi.”
    Is reincarnation due to man’s own actions or does God mislead man?


    I hope you are getting the drift of my argument here. Now, moving on to your questions:

    1 what do you think is should be aim of our life as i think it is to be one with god what do you think

    I think our aim is to do God’s will and we can know God’s will for us only through the Bible. When we read the Bible we learn that we are separated from God because of our sins. We are unable to become sin-free therefore we receive God’s forgiveness for our sins in Jesus Christ, who paid the price for our sins. Once the sin question is settled, separation from God is only physical not spiritual.


    2 As jesus has said I am the way does this mean he is the only way


    Jesus is the “only” Way. He is the only sinless person to have ever lived, and died for sins of the mankind, to redeem them from the wrath of God. "Salvation is found in no-one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

    3 if yes then i means that any other religious leader or preacher like muhammed, nanak , buddha were
    a) just nonsense personality disorders
    or b) god was some how happy with them due to thier efforts or what ever so made them one with himself but they were not the way for others
    or c) they may some how have been in contact with jesus through bible or some other means

    Please see the thread – "An ex-Sikh's journey in faith"

    Regards

    Rajs
     
  11. Neutral Singh

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    Dear Rajs

    You are not following my logics at all. I am quoting each and every contradiction with each version and line number where they appear and these translations are compelete in itself. You are advised to produce these verses from SGGS where they apear.

    Now, take the following verses... Each version is talking about the same instance but the outcome is looking at opposite direction.

    Gurbani should be read in full verses and not one line take out of context. But even if we take the above quoted verses in correlation with other verses as you attempted some posts above. Why do they differ in meangin and what should considered as a true version... anyways the above contradictions have nothing to do with spirituality and these are mere historical facts.

    You are advised to produce these verses from SGGS, where they appear along with Page No and Line No.

    Over to You, Sir.

    Best Regards
     
  12. Rajs

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    Neutral Singh,

    The supposed contradictions you are pointing out is in the verse "number" or the "meaning" of the verse? The Bible says, "A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions." (Proverbs 18:2)

    Rajs
     
  13. Sikh News Reporter

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    Who is fooling around here... i really wonder ... ;)
     
  14. Arvind

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    Site Admin,

    Please dont ban or even warn Raj for getting delight in airing his opinions. Entertainment must continue ;-)

    Or may be warn me for some time. I will be off internet for some time :)

    Regards.
     
  15. Neutral Singh

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    Hi Rajs

    You have rightly quoted from bible about fools... :)

    Just have a look at this... http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

    This is a very interesting site... it has explained Old Testament and New Testament insideout and step by step so that nothing is quoted out of context... so now, we have given you a common platform... i will be posting some of the famous contradictions/absurditeis in Bible from this site from time to time... that will give our members a clearer picture about this topic.

    Enjoy Life
    Best Regards
     
  16. Bittu

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    Dear Neutral Singh ji,Rkhalsa Ji and other,
    "Gurbani should be read in full verses and not one line take out of context."- like that Bible should be read in full verses .
    "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost".(2 peter 1:20-21)

    "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction".(2 Peter 3:16)

    Now about contradiction you mentioned-
    MAT 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
    MAR 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
    Luke 23:55 & 24:1And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
    JOH 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

    Where is contradiction?
    Every Gospel says "women" came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared. In those women "Mary Magdalene" is comman. So,where is the contradiction?
    As Raj said,"Who or how many went to Jesus’ tomb is not the point of the scriptures but that, empty tomb was “witnessed”.

    {PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
    JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
    MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
    LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.
    JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.
    JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. }
    about thease-- Raj have already explained all.
    Dear Drkhalsa ji,
    you questioned,
    As jesus has said I am the way does this mean he is the only way
    3 if yes then i means that any other religious leader or preacher like muhammed, nanak , buddha were a) just nonsense personality disorders
    or b) god was some how happy with them due to thier efforts or what ever so made them one with himself but they were not the way for others

    YES ITS TRUE "JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONLY WAY".


    "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.{Hebrews 1:2}

    "In the past God spoke by the prophets,in these last days has spoken to us in His Son"
    When God have spoke in the past through prophets and in these last days at last he send his son and spoke through him,now why will he speak through other people or send another prophets? God have spoke everything in his only son Jesus Christ, now nothing is left to say.

    "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world". (1 John 4:1-3)

    "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves".(2 Peter 2:1)

    "No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds". (2 Corinthians 11:14-15)

    "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed". (Galatians 1:8-9)

    "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.The same was in the beginning with God.All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.In him was life; and the life was the light of men.And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not".(John 1:1-8)

    "That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not". (John 1:11)

    "And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life". (1 John 5:20)

    "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God". (Isaiah 44:6)

    "When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last,and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades".(Revelation 1:18)

    I answered from BIBLE.My intention is not bad towards anyone so, PLEASE FORGIVE ME IF I HURT YOU!! ::cool::
     
  17. spnadmin

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    "In the past God spoke by the prophets,in these last days has spoken to us in His Son"
    When God have spoke in the past through prophets and in these last days at last he send his son and spoke through him,now why will he speak through other people or send another prophets? God have spoke everything in his only son Jesus Christ, now nothing is left to say.

    Because Bittu ji

    Not everyone accepts this idea that nothing is left to say, or that anyone after Jesus of Nazareth is a false prophet, or that there is/was no need for God to speak through other people. Your position is clearly a Christian position. If that perspective were clearly all that the peoples of the world were to need, then that would be the only message. Clearly this is not the case. Thus, in Sikhism (I will only speak for my personal path), Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj speaks more clearly than the Christian Scriptures. And 25 million people feel the same.


    :)
     
  18. Bittu

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    Dear Neutral Singh,

    Skeptics will obviously tell such things.These atheist people not only says about Bible(Christianity) but about every religion includind Sikhism.
    If you will read my previous post then you will understand.

    FOR ALL:-
    "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts". (Isaiah 55:8-9)

    "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?" (Isaiah 43:11-13)

    "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God". (Isaiah 44:6)

    "When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last,and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades".(Revelation 1:18)

    For Skeptics and to those who reffer and shows Gnostic Gospels against those which are in New Testament :-

    "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God". (1 Corinthians 1:18)

    "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction".(2 Peter 3:16)


    "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not".(2 Peter 2:1-3)

    "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us". (1 John 2:18-19)
     
  19. Bittu

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    Dear aad0002,

    BEFORE THE SECOND COMING OF JESUS CHRIST:-
    "And the gospel must first be preached unto all the nations". (Mark 13:10)
    BEFORE HIS COMING HIS NAME WILL REACH TO EVERY NATION AND PEOPLE,SO THERE IS NO NEED OF OTHER MESSAGE OR SAVIOUR!! AND MORE THAN 25 million people BELIVE THE SAME . WE CAN NOT MEASURE THE TRUTH BY THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE BELIVE IN THAT THING.MORE THAN 25 million people ,HINDU,MUSLIM BELIVE IN OTHER THING AS TRUTH!
    "TRUTH WILL REMAIN TRUTH NO ONE CAN CHANGE IT" HOW MANY PEOPLE BELIVES IN IS DOSENT MATTER.
    "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever". (Hebrews 13:8)

    "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me". (John 14:6)
     
  20. spnadmin

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    Bittu ji

    This thread is in Interfaith Dialogs. That means that a dialog or conversation is expected. So you have to expect forum members of other faiths to disagree -- I hope respectfully. So far you are posting verses from the Bible in bold, red fonts. You offer very little explanation, and sometimes none at all.

    Now this is what disturbs me as forum leader

    BEFORE THE SECOND COMING OF JESUS CHRIST:-
    "And the gospel must first be preached unto all the nations". (Mark 13:10)
    BEFORE HIS COMING HIS NAME WILL REACH TO EVERY NATION AND PEOPLE,SO THERE IS NO NEED OF OTHER MESSAGE OR SAVIOUR!! AND MORE THAN 25 million people BELIVE THE SAME . WE CAN NOT MEASURE THE TRUTH BY THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE BELIVE IN THAT THING.MORE THAN 25 million people ,HINDU,MUSLIM BELIVE IN OTHER THING AS TRUTH!


    Proselytizing is forbidden by forum rules. The above is looking like missionary work to me. If you continue doing this, then I will delete your message. You have already received a warning on a different thread. Please do not continue on this path. aad0002
     
  21. shearwater

    shearwater
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    SPNer

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    Re: Who is the father of Joseph?

    Joseph was the son of Heli. Heli was the name of a person.
     

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