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General Conception in Sikhism

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Ishna, Dec 30, 2012.

  1. Ishna

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    On hiatus
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    May 9, 2006
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    Vouthon ji posted this in another thread. My questions are throughout in blue.

    "...Sikh moral and ethical values are based on the idea of natural law - similar to the Roman Catholic idea of natural law - the way God wants the universe too work...Nowhere in the Guru Granth Sahib is divorce mentioned because marriage is preordained by God." <-where does Guru Granth Sahib Ji talk about marriage between human husband and wife? Even the lavan are about a human's bond with Guruji, not each other. Does that mean marriage is actually in the same category as divorce, since it's not mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib Ji? This is a dangerous argument because so much of the mundane is left OUT of Guru Granth Sahib Ji that one could make an arugment against almost anything from it.

    "The Gurus believed in the commitment to marriage...Sikh theology, like Catholic theology supports the idea that there is only one kind of morally good sexual act: sex between a man and woman who are married and who are having sex to conceive and raise children to perpetuate God's creation..." <- so sex as part of a relationship, sans the aim of conception, is not a good sexual act? Where does this come from in Sikh theology? I have not come across any primary sources for it. Therefore conjecture.

    "According to the Guru Granth Sahib human life begins immediately at the moment of conception and that creation of life is the will of God...The embryo or zygote that God has created is a divine gift which has to be nurtured and nourished to prepare it for the world, and the time in the womb is a valuable element of the spiritual development of the human being...For Sikhs an embryo or foetus has feelings as soon as conception takes place. In the Guru Granth Sahib there are verses which describe how the unborn child has the ability to meditate upon God's name as soon as it is conceived...Since Sikh theology argues that the soul is 'born' immediately upon conception it can be infered that it would be a sin to abort a foetus because, first, human life is created by God, and second, to abort the life would be to interfere with God's creative work..." <- does anyone know which verses the author is referring to? A zygote has feelings the moment a sperm penetrates an ovum...? Guru Granth Sahib Ji says babies meditate in the womb, but from the moment of conception..?? I really would like to see some sources. And I would also say human life is created in line with natural laws, not necessarily "by God himself with his mighty sceptre".

    "The sex of a child is preordained and God's hukam (will). Children are gifts from God and couples should accept God's will...From an analysis of the Guru Granth Sahib it is clear that the Gurus had a high respect for life, which they viewed as a gift from God. Thus, a Sikh has to accept that the life he/she has was decided by our karma <- ... and that God has determined how many breaths we 'breathe'. The injuction that God has preordained how long we live and whether we have to suffer goes against the increasing modern practice of euthanasia and mercy killings. As a result there is no place for mercy killing, assisted suicide or euthanasia in Sikhism, for death happens when God commands it..." <- outside the title of the thread but a juicy discussion in itself...
    - Jagbir Jhutti-Johal (in "Sikhism Today")
    What are your thoughts?
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  3. Archived_member15

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    Feb 23, 2012
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    I'm leaving this forum soon (probably on January 1st) and I have promised myself that I am not going to spend my last days embroiled in threads, however I will put in a helpful little tidbit until I go mundahug

    I will say first of all that there will be a significant number of Sikhs who will probably not agree with that British Sikh scholar from the University of Birmingham (I believe) ie they are her distinguished views.

    I would expect though that two of the passages she is referring to would be:

    I would also suggest that you buy her book, "Sikhism Today" to read these passages in the context of the entire chapter.

    You can also read portions of the book on GoogleBooks.
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  4. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Jul 4, 2004
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    The SGGS is not a "book of Laws..dos and dont..written on the lines of the Ten Commandments !!"
    The SGGS is a Book of Experiences of the DIVINE...similar to the Psalms of david..of the 36 contributors...a One to One Personal Experience of the Creator and His Divinity ...expanse...His Attributes beyond description..His Laws that run the Universe and Nature...His Goodness His compassion His Love..and HOW TO "experience those experiences yourself.." The SGGS is a Manual of Life..a TOOLBOX of LIFE...a How to Book and not a Why..why not..type of Question/Answer book. The CREATOR CANNOT be QUESTIONED..He is simply to be LOVED..LOVED..LOVED. He is Not to be Feared..He is NOT the Enemy..He is NOt the Dark forces..He is Not Evil..He is Not the torturer of Hell nor is He the Bestower of Damsels in Heaven..He is not the Center of Some Huge Hall and seated on his Throne..He is not in some cloud up there..He has NO IMAGE and therefore Humans are NOT in "his image"..He is never BORN nor dies and is self existant..He is TRUTH..aad sach juf=gaad sach..nanak haisee bhee SACH..TRUTH and the way to please Him is via TRUTHFUL LIVING. The SGGS is ALL about SACH...and NOTHING but the SACH ( as they say in Court !!).....Marriage..Divorce..Separation..Longing for union...marriage songs ghorriahn..death wails allahhnniah..happy songs..happy dances..sad songs..sadness happiness..EVERY THING is about the CREATOR and our SEPARATION form HIM and how to achieve the Perfect UNION with HIM as we ORIGINALLY were before He decided to separate US form HIM...and the decision to reunite us also rests with HIM...all we do is TRY TRY and TRY...and LOVE..LOVE..LOVE. There are no rewards and no punishments..Sikhs Dont aim for either...Thus the SGGS is a REVOLUTIONARY "book" very very UNLIKE all the other religious books of all other religions..Comparing it or trying to look for similarities is like comparing Grapes and Melons...or coconuts to apricots...??? Simply a waste of time...because the ONLY "similarity" the SGGS shares with other Books is its paper..binding..and ink and human language....the GYAAN/KNOWLEDGE is however out of this world..japposatnamwaheguru:japposatnamwaheguru:japposatnamwaheguru:
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  5. aristotle

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    May 11, 2010
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    Last days? Really?
    Vouthon Ji, that's not sport...

    "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own."
    (Matthew 6:34)

    "Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?"
    (Matthew 6:27)

    "Say to those with anxious heart, 'Take courage, fear not.'"
    (Isaiah 35:4)

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