Coming Soon: Hefty Fines For Wearing Burqa In France

[spnadmin]

France is formulating a strict new law under which women who wear full-length veils (burqa) in public places will have to pay a fine of over 750 Euro.

The amount could be doubled for Muslim men who force their wives or other female members of their to cover their faces, The Daily Mail has reported.

Jean-Francois Cope, president of Nicolas Sarkozy's ruling UMP Party in the French parliament, said the new was intended to protect the 'dignity' and 'security' of women.

He is set to file the draft law in the National Assembly after Sarkozy said veils are 'not welcome' as they intimidate and alienate non-Muslims, especially in a secular country like France.

"We want a ban in public areas," said Cope, making clear that the veil would not be allowed in public buildings, or on the streets of France, as it encourages extremism.

Cope said, "The wearing of the burqas will be subject to a fine, probably of the 4th class, which is to say 750 Euros."

He said the fine would apply to 'all people on the public street whose face is entirely covered'.

A parliamentary inquiry into the wearing of all-body burqas and naqabs is due to publish its recommendations next month, the report said.

 

[Astroboy]

Re: Coming soon: Burqa fine in France

Tell them to pass another bill also. Highest reward for those who walk naked in public.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Coming soon: Burqa fine in France

A discussion of this article may prove very interesting. I found it to be yet another news article published this week that left me a tad baffled.

Does everyone agree that the new law is mainly aimed at protecting the dignity and privacy of Muslim women? That this is the genuine reason for banning the burqa?

Is the burqa intimidating to "non-Muslims" in "secular" countries?

I see at least 3 women a day either at work or in my neighborhood in burqa and have never felt intimidated. Some of my friends are intimidated by the sight of a woman in a burqa. Some are horrified.

I confess that I do feel some strains of concern: Burqas must be hot, confining and possibly even place a women in physical danger in certain circumstances. Many years ago there was a story of a ferry boat that sank off the coast of Indonesia. All of the women drowned because they were weighed down by the burqa and did not have the freedom to work themselves free once it became soaked. Another story not so long ago reported the number of women who are badly burned in Afghanistan because, as they pass by fires in market places while shopping, the burqa catches on fire. The small eye opening also limits a woman's peripheral vision. So the burqa poses a safety hazard that is real.

On the flip-side. Men have been known to wear burqas. A terrorist, either carrying out an attack or under police surveillance, could indeed use a female disguise as a distraction and be essentially invisible.

Wondering what forum member's reactions to this article are?

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Coming soon: Burqa fine in France

I'll let this guy do the "crazy" talking. :advocate: not that I agree with him or anything...

YouTube- Ban the burka

 

[kds1980]

Re: Coming soon: Burqa fine in France

There is hardly any Difference between militant secularism and Talibanistic way of Life.
Both try to impose their way of life on others and Here we see people day and night cursing religions

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Coming soon: Burqa fine in France

Oh there is a lot of difference Kanwardeep Singh ji!
You have made a very shallow comparison. Let's see you elaborate on that.

 

[kds1980]

Re: Coming soon: Burqa fine in France

Oh there is a lot of difference Kanwardeep Singh ji!
You have made a very shallow comparison. Let's see you elaborate on that.

Both try to impose their lifestyle on others

Both impose freedom on religions

Both believe that what others are doing is wrong and everyone adopt their philosophy

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Coming soon: Burqa fine in France

kanwardeep singh ji

I agree with your comment above. At first, though I didn't understand your earlier point. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Astroboy]

As the Sufi mystics say, "Allah is veiled by his own Light." "By the Light of Allah, I see Allah."

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Coming soon: Burqa fine in France

Both try to impose their lifestyle on others

Both impose freedom on religions

Both believe that what others are doing is wrong and everyone adopt their philosophy

This is still a very shallow comparison. I think you are very well aware of how different the things, that are being imposed and their reasoning, are.

 

[kds1980]

Re: Coming soon: Burqa fine in France

This is still a very shallow comparison. I think you are very well aware of how different the things, that are being imposed and their reasoning, are.

Well Its the way of looking .The difference is that talibans use voilence.
But the net net result of both societies is the same .You have to leave a militant secularist society or embrace their way ,You have to embrace islam or
leave afghanistan.The net result of both societiy is same.

 

[Randip Singh]

You know I don't like the idea of a Bur-qua, because if a woman wears it then so should a man, but I am with the Muslims on this.

The French IMHO have some very lax morals where affairs and mistresses are seen as the norm and are tolerated. I suppose I am a Secularist at heart but the French have very weird idea of Secularism.

 

[BhagatSingh]

The idea is to keep religion personal, and keep it out of the public. Why is that a problem?
Every religion or non-religion is being told to do so. This is simply imposing the laws of the land, and they are fair since they are being "imposed" equally.

Well Its the way of looking .The difference is that talibans use voilence.
But the net net result of both societies is the same .You have to leave a militant secularist society or embrace their way ,You have to embrace islam or
leave afghanistan.The net result of both societiy is same.

The net result of both societies is the same?? I'd like to see the logical progression here.

Secularists aren't imposing their lifestlyle on anyone, the only thing they ask is to keep religion out of politics and public, and keep it to yourself. Taliban on the other hand are, they will control each and every aspect of your life using guidance from ALLAH. talibans will say keep religion to yourself if you are non-Muslim.

Secularists won't oppress women nor anyone else. Taliban will oppress everyone except Muslim males.

The secularist reasoning of keeping religion out of politics seems to be working. Look at the Islamic nations, and compare with secularist ones. Religion muddles everything up, and whose religion will you mix with politics. You CAN NOT mix them all!
Allowing religion to enter public is just giving religions like Islam a loophole to get their Sharia Law, burqas, niqabs, and otehr other closed-minded, medieval, chauvinistic, dangerous and anti-Western things into society.
And you cannot allow let's say the turban and not the burqa, since that's unfair. Even though, we know the difference between the two. They are the exact opposite of each other.

Please clarify what oyu mean by militant secularism. Is that where secularists bomb tall buildings because they will get 72 virgins??? because the only definition of secularism I know is where you keep religion personal.

 

[kds1980]

The idea is to keep religion personal, and keep it out of the public. Why is that a problem?

There are many religions that cannot be kept personal what about them?

Every religion or non-religion is being told to do so

LOL do no religious people need such type of law it only affect religious people

The net result of both societies is the same?? I'd like to see the logical progression here.

Yes if you take religious symbols out of some religions they could die in long run.Their future generations could end up becoming agnostic/atheists.Just like in talibanistic society
people may end up converting to islam in long run

Secularists aren't imposing their lifestlyle on anyone, the only thing they ask is to keep religion out of politics and public, and keep it to yourself

They are imposing their lifestyle that's why they want people not to wear a turban or burqa
Also in religious society religion can never be kept out of politics just like the politics of language and culture never go

Secularists won't oppress women nor anyone else. Taliban will oppress everyone except Muslim males.

Wrong muslim males too were also oppressed by them for not practising islam properly
In the same way Sikhs and Hindus were asked to wear saffron badges and pay jaziya

Allowing religion to enter public is just giving religions like Islam a loophole to get their Sharia Law, burqas, niqabs, and otehr other closed-minded, medieval, chauvinistic, dangerous and anti-Western things into society.
And you cannot allow let's say the turban and not the burqa,

This is their mentality .Just because islamic societies oppress it does not mean no other religion should be allowed in Public.Why are they afraid of religion in public?

Please clarify what oyu mean by militant secularism. Is that where secularists bomb tall buildings because they will get 72 virgins

What is the meaning of secularism? The aim of secularism was that all people should be allowed to worship their respective religions its aim was not that Religions should not be allowed at all in Public and I already said that Militant secularistic people don't use voilence


Many Islamic societies also say that non islamic Religions should not be allowed in public
but people are free to worship them in private

 

[BhagatSingh]

This is their mentality .Just because islamic societies oppress it does not mean no other religion should be allowed in Public.

You misquoted me, I said:

And you cannot allow let's say the turban and not the burqa, since that's unfair.

The aim of secularism was that all people should be allowed to worship their respective religions its aim was not that Religions should not be allowed at all in Public...

Once you allow small changes to be made in "respect" to religion, you are on the slippery slope. This slope leads one right into a ditch, known as Islam.

 

[kds1980]

Once you allow small changes to be made in "respect" to religion, you are on the slippery slope. This slope leads one right into a ditch, known as Islam.

So here we go the problem is Islam so lets ban all religions in Public.What kind of stupid logic is this.

Anyway muslims are already 5% of France 's population and birth rate of muslim women
is much higher than other french women.so burqa or no burqa they will get stronger and stronger

BTW I have another idea to control islam why not ask non muslim women of France to have more kids or pay fine and also ask women who have more than 3 children to pay fine too this will automatically lead to equal birth rate of all religions and non religion people

 

[BhagatSingh]

So here we go the problem is Islam so lets ban all religions in Public.What kind of stupid logic is this.

Problem is religion because letting religion through the door means leading Islam in. Like I said You cannot treat Islam differently! because that's what we would call unfair, discriminating, and "not treating everyone equally".

This kind of one-sided law-imposing is much more similar to Taliban.

 

[kds1980]

Problem is religion because letting religion through the door means leading Islam in. Like I said You cannot treat Islam differently! because that's what we would call unfair, discriminating, and "not treating everyone equally".

This kind of one-sided law-imposing is much more similar to Taliban.

If the fear of islam is so high their minds then they should try some different methods.Why should other religions suffer because of Islam? and if islam is not stopped by this then what will be the next step banning all religions?

And how one sided law against islam is talibanistic? Talibans too treated all non muslims equally.

 

[BhagatSingh]

If the fear of islam is so high their minds then they should try some different methods.Why should other religions suffer because of Islam?

I wish it was just Islam. All religions( and other dogmatic systems) are prone to the same problem as Islam. Islam just happens to be on the worst end of it right now.

and if islam is not stopped by this then what will be the next step banning all religions?

You are committing a fallacy here. This is not the next step, and you know it.

And how one sided law against islam is talibanistic? Talibans too treated all non muslims equally.

Saying that simply Muslims should not be allowed to make their religions public is more akin talibanistic ideology because they too say only non-believers cannot make their religions public.
They treat one religion differently than others. Secular governments won't do that because that would be

unfair, discriminating, and "not treating everyone equally"

PS If you are here simply to vent out your frustration, let me know, I will be most happy to leave.

 

[kds1980]

I wish it was just Islam. All religions( and other dogmatic systems) are prone to the same problem as Islam. Islam just happens to be on the worst end of it right now.

Who are miltant secularists to decide that all religions are prone to same problem? is it not the same mentality that all kafirs are bad?

ou are committing a fallacy here. This is not the next step, and you know it.

No one knows what lies in Future.Anti religion propaganda rose after 9/11

They treat one religion differently than others. Secular governments won't do that because that would be

What is the meaning of secularism? Please define in your own words.some states in USA are even allowing sikhs to wear kirpan while France and germany is not allowing them to turban.So who is secular ?

PS If you are here simply to vent out your frustration, let me know, I will be most happy to leave.

LOL:}{}{}::}{}{}::}{}{}::}{}{}: I don't get frustrated by these childish debates
but you certainly look frustrated