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Chat between Sikh and Hindu guy

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by seeker3k, Jul 14, 2013.

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  1. seeker3k

    seeker3k
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    SSA

    Every one have the right to believe in what they like including me.
    I am not condemning any one. Each one chose his own ways to worship.
    My point here is if I am doing what I am condemning then I am hypocrite.
    We Sikhs are going against BABE, yet most Sikhs are going to them.
    Nanak was Baba. Is there some thing wrong being Baba?

    Here is conversation Gyani ji and Brahman.

    I will call Gyani as G and Brahman as B

    G: Why you worship stones?
    B: Why do you worship book?

    G we respect what is in the book we call it SGGS
    B We builds the image of our devtas and we respect them.

    G There is guru’s bani in SGGS we learn from that.
    B we learn from statue same as you listen the poems yet do not understand.

    B In amritsar one can buy statue of Nanak and pictures of all gurus are being sold all over.
    G That is wrong we should not have stature of any Guru
    B Did you try to stop any shop keeper to stop selling statue?

    G you guys feed statue food, how can state eat food?
    B You put food by the SGGS and prays to book to bless the food.
    B you guys put water by the book and put blanket in winter and AC in summer.

    B The paper on which guru’s pictures are being used to put Chole and Bhale on that paper. Then that picture is thrown on the street. People walk on it?
    G that is bad thing.

    G Our guru did miracle like stop the rolling stone with one hand.
    B Krishan did many miracles he hid the sun at the Maha Bharta.
    G No one can stop the sun it is not true.
    Do you really think that Stone Nanak stopped it by his hand?

    G You believe in casts system. You don’t think all human are same. Nanak said all humans are same.
    B There were 10 gurus one was too young to have child. How many gurus married their kids in lower class? Saying is one thing doing is another.

    G Krishna had over 364 wives. Why is that?
    B More then one is wrong, 3 of your gurus hade more then one wife? Why is that?

    G Do you think one can get better by mantar?
    B Do you think ready dukh newaran shabad from SGGS can make one better?

    G Do you think by burning ghee and other things help sick person?
    B By burning ghee and other samagry first it clean the air. Clean area helps one to relax.
    By relaxing most of the problems are solved.

    G Why do you wear janue, what does it do?
    B I really don’t know when and why it started. But why do you wear dagger?

    B It was given to us by Guru Gobind Singh when he created Khalsa. It is one kakar of 5. With that we have identity as Sikh.
    As far as I know Guru gave 3 foot kirpan not 6” dagger. Who told Sikhs to wear 6” dagger?

    G I do not know how that came about. I never thought about it.

    B I think Sikhism have 3 pillars. 1 Kirt karo 2 Band- shako 3 Naam simran karo.
    What is naam and how do you do the simran? Why Sikh has to read 5 banis?

    G Guru gave us naam waheguru this is the name of GOD.

    B If you have naam waheguru then why there is need to read 5 banis?
    Is waheguru in SGGS? Or any guru Nanak gave it to second Guru or gave this naam to who ever came to see Nanak?

    G The naam waheguru is in SGGS. I think Nanak must have given this naam to second Guru. But I don’t know if Nanak gave to every one or not.
    Nanak defeated yogis when they had the meeting about meditation. Yoga is not good.

    B When yogis asked Nanak who is his guru, Nanak said my guru is SHABAD. But Nanak never any where said this is SHABAD that you should do the simran. At the meeting it was not winning or loosing it was just to share ideas. Guru said yogi jugat na jane. Nanak never condemns yoga only that yogi doesn’t know the technique.

    G Nanak told us there is no need to do meditation just live simple life.

    B How simple is Sikh’s life? It is full of karam kand. It is as mush karm kand in Sikhism as in Hinduism. I agree with you Nanak try to get us and you out of karam kand but we and you never got out of it. Just got deeper in to them. You have made SGGS to be afraid of. No one can touch it with out taking bath or washing hands. You have chor sahib as to keep flies away. You put book to sleep put blanket on or turn AC in hot. How come no one give bath to SGGS? All those year after year SGGS must be really dirty. You make people cover their head why is that. Can no one go to guru with out covering his head?
    Which guru said that langar should be eaten sitting on floor even thou one can not bend his knees. When langar is left over they give that to public. Do these people when they take langer hom do they sit on floor to eat? I am sure and I seen people sitting on chairs to eat the very langer that in gurdwara we are made to sit on floor. Bhai ji going to read SGGS one the way he can not touch any one nor he can shake hand with any one. If he do so he has to wash his hand again, why? Sikhs in most homes have guru’s pictures. When they get up in morning they stand before guru’s picture and bow to the picture.
    Bhai ji nu roti but not to Brahman? Sikh women removing face hairs and do make up eyebrow making. Putting nath at wedding. Doing full make up like Hindu girls?
    At child birth going to gurdwara to choose name of child? Having bhai ji doing ardas and paying bhai ji for that? At the death insisting of reading kertan sohla? Taking asts to Kertpur even from Foreign? It is forbidden in rehtnama. Person with chronic disease (even diabetes) can not be part of 5 pyare at the time of Amrit? Removing Khrah parsad for 5 pyare in separate. Reading Rehras in evening only and reading japji in the morning only? Why there is raksha bandan in Sikhism? Hindus go around agni when getting married. Sikhs do the same thing but go around book? No other religion copy same marriage ceremony only Sikhs coping Hinduism?

    There are many same rituals Sikhs are doing which are in Hinduism, why is that.

    If this post it up to site's standard then you may delete it before it get posted
     
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  3. sikh15

    sikh15
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    Seeker3k ji,

    Gurfateh,

    I have studied all of the world's major religions and practiced some of them. In all honesty, every religion's followers are corrupt. What I mean is that the vast majority of the followers of each religion are practicing things that are contrary to their particular religion's teachings. It doesn't matter if is is Hinduism, Sikhi, Jainism, Christianity, Islam, etc. The problem doesn't lay with the religions themselves, but in the people who follow them. Obviously in each religion there are followers who do practice the religion as it should be practiced. But in the majority, this is not the case from what I have seen.

    We should stop pointing out each others' faults like in the above conversation and each religion's leaders should get off their asses and educate the masses of their followers. Of course, this would assume the leaders practice the way they should and aren't corrupted by money, power, fame, etc. Sadly, I don't think this is the case.

    This is just my 2 cents. I could be wrong. I could be right.

    -Justin
     
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  4. seeker3k

    seeker3k
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    Sikh 15 ji
    SSA

    What you said is so common that it is not the religion it is people who are bad. Like you I have lived among many religions and studied many. I have also done meditation. Went up the montains in India stayed wit sahdus and learned.
    Religion is what people live by. religion by it self can not do any thing. It is pantha is in problem so we should save the panth. It is not pant in Sikhism I am saying all the religious people use that to excite people to go to war and other bad things. Sikhs are totally againest babe but why I can not understand. If we live and let live then there be no problem.

    Spirituality is diffrent thing religion is group of people who want to control people. I have not seen any sadhus doing meditation in group not even 2 sadhus do meditation. It is religions who want people to come in their church gurdwara mandar. Why for money and power.
     
  5. arshdeep88

    arshdeep88 India
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    Exceptions are always there.
    Good people are there too in every religion.
    Lets not judge True meaning of religion by just some of the few fanatics.
     
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  6. seeker3k

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    Yes they are
    but why one need religion?
     
  7. arshdeep88

    arshdeep88 India
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    Depends on how you define Religion
     
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  8. seeker3k

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    It is not me who define religion I do not have religion.
    Those who are in religion should define it


    One go to school to learn. They put him/her in first class then he/she move up as time goes
    He learned what he wanted to lean in that primary school. Now he have choice to go to higher school or stay in that primary school.
    If he stay he may become monitor of one class.But he can not learn higher education. He must leave that school and go to other school to leanr till he get Phd or any other degree he wanted. This is my 2 bits for religion
     
  9. arshdeep88

    arshdeep88 India
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    Some very well move ahead in life without going to schools ,colleges .For Some going to school is enough,for some college is enough for the purpose of the life to rise ahead.

    For some going to schools,colleges,then doing phds is never enough because they fail to realize the BASIC things of learning. Some learn basic things in school,some in colleges ,some in higher institutes.
    Some are born with art of learning and moving ahead in life without even going to places to study.
    One student excels in his life through the study provided in school,other does not.
    That doesnt means the school or college( religion)is at fault
    sorry tried answering from my prospective through your presented example only
     
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  10. seeker3k

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    Intention is to learn not staying in school.
    Religion and people who run the school want every one to stay in school so that they can make money and have numbers. Numbers are strength and power. When one pass what that shcool have to teach teacher tell that person now you are qualify go and do what you are good for.

    In religion they try to keep us in
    Let those who want n ready to go
     
  11. arshdeep88

    arshdeep88 India
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    what if the student loves to stay in school or the college and want to do selfless service to inspire others by being in school ?
     
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  12. seeker3k

    seeker3k
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  13. arshdeep88

    arshdeep88 India
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    TRUE followers of religions have been following religions out of love and respect not just for the name sake
    Just my personal thoughts
     
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  14. seeker3k

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    My understnading of those that they have brain washed.

    this is final
    as I said in beginning every one have the right to believe what want to believe

    I am no one to stop any one

    discussion is only if it is logic......
     
  15. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    I agree completely, I love that term 'brain washing', I imagine my own brain as being in need of some serious washing, cleansing, purification,

    If only it were that simple we could just remove and wash our brains, but its not, well not for some, if Sikhism is 'brain washing', I'll have a large tub of sudso please.

    'sudso' washes brains whiter than all other leading brands!
     
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  16. muddymick

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    Seeker3k ji,

    Do you think that the Gurus,Sages and Saints who applied their whole lives and not inconsiderable intellects to the problems of existence were futile in such attempts?

    Do you you think the methods they tried and tested that have been refined by many saintly and committed followers are pointless?

    Do you you think that our comparably lazy and self indulgent modern man and women can do better?

    With such a limited timespan (human life) would we be more sensible to throw out the learning and start afresh, stumbling in the dark like children?

    If one wanted to be an effective doctor would one even consider not building upon the research and learning that went before?

    If one wants to travel to a destination does one not use a map, made by one who has travelled that way before?

    Numerous times in the west (and sometimes in the east) I have heard individuals say they follow there own faith, their own religion or their own spirituality. Yet for all these dilettantes (and I have met a few) who mix and match methods and disciplines or cherry pick what appeals and disregard that which does not. I am yet to meet one who is free of the five thieves. Or even relatively free of ego.

    If the proof is in the pudding and only 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the religiously inclined loosen the fetters of the thieves, it would from all evidence seem that it is a much larger percentage than those who claim to be be able to go it alone!

    I for one know I am way too stupid, delusional and lazy to go it alone.

    I rely upon another's map to tell me where the pitfalls are, where the road is difficult and where the dead ends are.

    ( I did appreciate your original post, thanks)


    :winkingsingh::winkingsingh:
     
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    #15 muddymick, Jul 14, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2013
  17. arshdeep88

    arshdeep88 India
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    seeker Ji
    i have understood your point and i know there are many fanatics doing things just on the name of religion.
    But on the brighter side there have been very great personalities too been born who have understood the true meaning of religion and have rose ahead in life and they have served their religion out of love and respect.

    All the gurus followed the teachings out of love ,respect and trust of the earlier gurus.
    The same religion has been followed by Baba deep singh,5 pyaare,Banda Bahadur,and in other religions can be there too but as i have very limited understanding of people of other religions so cant take names from other religions.

    Its true that there have been many fanatics going on doing crazy things in the name of religion but that doesnt means religion teaches anything as such.
    Its just in sheer ego a human forgets everything.

    Blaming religion for this only is bit of foolishness of us i guess.
     
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  18. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    I believe this is Seekr3k's core question. Not a matter of fanatics, or individuals who do not follow the teachings of a religion, or leaders who are crooks. Is religion itself the problem? Does religion create conditions for people to be fanatics and for leaders to be crooks because they have power over people?

    The question is a good question. If there are so many problems within religions, does one need religion at all? If there were not so many problems within religions, does one need religion?

    Why does it exist to begin with? Particularly since there are so many examples of those who do not practice the religion they say they belong to.
     
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  19. muddymick

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    spnadmin ji,

    I would have to say if we consider religion as a tool, say a scalpel (for ease of analogy) that tool when used with good intentions and knowledge (say in the hands of a surgeon) can save lives at best, ease suffering or make life more bearable. The same tool wielded by one with bad intentions and ignorant can be used to kill, maim or threaten.

    Do we blame the tool or the one who wields it?

    I think I may have said (very inadequately) why I believe we need religion. As a tool, a map and a methodology, that without it we would be as children stumbling in the dark.

    At worst yes it is misused by those whose intentions are selfish and base. Without religion would those selfish base people act better, kinder?
    I suspect not, I believe they would find what ever other tool was at hand to misuse and excuse their behaviour! whether it was a political ideology or a tribal cause or ethnic cause or whatever.

    The problem is not religious it is ego! The symptom just sometimes wears religious garb.
     
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  20. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Let me put the question/s differently.

    If religion did not exist what would human life be like?

    If religion did not exist would humankind invent religion at some point in time?

    What human needs are met by religion?

    Can those needs be met in other ways?

    I don't have an opinion, only guesses, in answer to those questions. However, I do think they help focus Seekr3k's basic quest.
     
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  21. arshdeep88

    arshdeep88 India
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    If there were no religions we might have been following other persons who have gone through the tough situations of life or might have trusted ourselves to go through the situations.

    yes there might be many who will trust themselves to move ahead in life not relying on other people but no harm who takes a inspiration out of other person's life.

    A student goes to the teacher to help him learn and move ahead in life.
    And the teacher teaches only through set of rules which are tried and tested.
    These rules might be called religion.

    what will happen if there were was no religion to begin with then obviously religion would have come up at some time or the other,i mean it has been happening and no matter how many religions we have many will come in future too.There are already 4200 religions approx.
     
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