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Change in Guru's Lifestyles

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by tony, Mar 21, 2009.

  1. tony

    tony
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    I have been wondering as to why the first five Guru jis where humble men who dressed like there fellow men, their seats or thrones where low to the ground and that they considered themselves as humble servants of all, but after the fifthcha Guru ji things change. The last five Guru jis clothes changed and they became more like kings than servants of God, the first five put their faith in god to protect them and accepted that if they should die then it was Gods will. the latter chose to defend themselves with steel. The pictures of the latter five depict them wearing silks and laced with jewels of great earthly value. they are also seen with hawks which is a pastime of royals and even rode on hunts with emperors, which was above any commoners ability to do. Whilst their words where matching the first five Guru jis, their live styles where completely the opposite. This is confusing to me and i would appreicate any help that would assist me in understanding the reason for this dramatic change in styles.
    Tony
     
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  3. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    .

    This is a most common misconception.
    Guru Nanak ji - to Guru Arjun Ji....the "religious Field" is being prepared...seeds are being sown..water is being applied.
    A SIKH is BOTH..a SANT...and a SOLDIER.....SANT-SIPAHI.
    If you read Bhagat Kabir Jis Banis chosen by Guru nanak ji to be inlcuded in SGGS..you will conclude that Bahagt ji is no PACIFIST...He is amn of GOD..but not a pacifist. He declares...GAGAN dama bajioh....sir dhar tali gali moree aao...sir deejeh kaan na keejeh..
    When the Drum Roll is struck...place your head on your palm and come fight...Give your ehad but not your Back (dotn run away like a coward).

    Guru nanak ji faced OFF squarely the Marauding Babar fresh after his victory over the Lodhis and amidst the burning and looted towns....and told him...paap ki janj lah kablon dhaiyah..zoree manggeh daan we Lalo....You have brought your wedding party of marauders form Kabul and now forcefully demand the wealth/women/riches/ etc of us...
    Guur Ji also faced squarely the RULERS....called them Rajeh SHEEHN (lions/wolves ) Mukaddam (Officers of the Govt like judges/etc ) KUTTEH - DOGS...Guur Ji faced off squarely the Kazis..the Mullahs..the Pandits...a SINGLE MAN against the mighty and the powerful of the land...
    GURU Angad Ji..began the "physical activites" to build up the SIKHS...Games of Kabaddii/atheletics..stick fighting...gatka..wrestling...alongside the GURMUKHI SCRIPT...EDUCATION....
    Guur Amardass Ji at the ripe old age of 70+ took over the Guruship....and set about propogating the religion Far and Beyond..22 manjis..Centres of Sikhism ( some were Led by WOMEN !!! an UNTHINKABLE proposition at that time !!)....
    Guru Ramdass Ji set up Amrtisar...began the building of Harmandir as the Main Centre of Sikhism...
    Guru Arjun ji completed the Harmandir sahib ..and also the AAD GRANTH..giving SIKHISM the "SCRIPTURES" as well.
    BY NOW..the EXPLODING POPULATION of SIKHS among the Hindus and MUSLIMS...began ringing the BELLS of DANGER in the Mughal Court...Jehangir writes in His Tuzkeh jehangiri - Daily diary..For a long time I ahve been watching this newly set up..."SHOP of DECEIT".....in Goindwaal..Amrtisar...and I am aghast at the numbers of even MUSLIMS who are gathering there daily...I am seriously considering that this "Shop of deceit" MUST be closed down for GOOD..and SOON !!
    Jehangir took the step of "closing down the shop of deceit" by MARTYRING GURU ARJUN JI in such a horrible manner on a hot plate/boiling water/heated sand poured on his head in the hottest summer mid day sun in JUNE...that he thought that no one in hsi right mind will remain a SIKH anymore. As an added measure Jehangir also Confiscated ALL Guru Jsi properties, the aad Granth etc and gave them to his eldest Brother Prithi Chand..and IMPRISONED the Child Guru Hargobind in the Walled Fort of GWALIOR far away in RAJASTHAN.

    The FIELD of SIKHI....had the CROPS GROWING....and the ENEMY had sent in the TRACTORS to MOW IT ALL DOWN..and PLOUGH the remains into the ground....

    Did the Sikhs just put their "other cheek" forward ?? Did they sit by quietly and elt the Filed be mowed clean ?? NO SIR..they didnt turn the other cheek..or sit quielty by...Time to show the SOLDIER SIDE....of the Sikhs....

    Guur Hargobind Ji ESTABLISHED the AKAL TAKHAT..THRONE of AKAL PURAKH..as compared to the Worldy "Throne of Delhi- Jehangir". The GURU is the SACHAH PATSHAH..the "TRUE EMPEROR "...compared to the False Emperor Jehangir !!
    Guru Arjun ji already showed the ONE SIDE..the SAINTLY SIDE...by endurign all tortures..even DEATH...and declaring..Dosh na kahoon dehon...I blame NO ONE..ITS HIS WILL...Now time to change tactics....SURVIVAL or be annihilated !!!
    THATS why the Next Gurus in Line took up ARMS..kept ARMIES and FOUGHT BACK agaisnt aggression by the AUTHORITIES. Guru Hargobind Ji fought 4 battles and won all 4 !! Civilian SIKHS agaisnt the fully trained well armed mughal profesisonal soldiers !! mean feat ?? EACH BATTLE WAS DEFENSIVE.
    Guru Har rai..didnt FIGHT any battles....BUT Kept an Armed Guard of 2000 Horsemen.....and kept spreading sikhism...he travelled all over India......Guru Harkishn Ji also kept the peace...then the Mughlas struck again...GURU TEG BAHADUR ji was summoned to Delhi--either CONVERT ( and thus convert all the SIKHS ) or DIE. Guru Ji preferred DEATH to deserting his faith.
    Guru Gobind Singh then carried on the task of Guru Hargobind Ji....He sat on the Sacha Throne and faced off the False Trone of Aurengzeb in Delhi....Guru Ji had to fight 17 battles..( ALL DEFENSIVE ).and then on to BANDA SINGH BAHADUR.. who took the OFFENSIVE...to the Mughals and defeated them and took over Sirhind and a lot of areas......and the Khalsa Raaj of Maharaja Ranjit Singh Ji came later.

    1. I remeber reading soemwhere that Jesus said..Give Ceaser his due because his image is on the Legal Tender..meaning the people must continue to pay taxes even to a hostile Govt even though it is suppressing the people !! The Sikh Gurus didnt take this route...IF the Raajha King is NOT doing his duty to PROTECT his people...then its justified to rise up and DEPOSE him. If the "fence" is destroying the field....its correct to DESTROY the FENCE and put in a new one. Guru Gobind Singh ji says its RIGHT to RESORT to the SWORD as a LAST RESORT..when ALL other means have FAILED to resolve the problem...IF the GOVT is corrupt....and waging war on its people..it is LEGAL to DEPOSE IT. Even TODAY this still holds ....otherwise HITLER would be the World leader TODAY...living to a Ripe old age and be Feuhrer of the WORLD !!
     
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  4. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    tony ji

    The other thing I would add is that the pictures are renditions coming one hundred or more years in time. So we can't use the pictures as historical evidence of anything because they are the artists' imaginary construction of the situation. Contemporary depictions of the gurus are very different -- except for Guru Gobind Singh.

    You have to go with SGGS and the historical record and Gyani has laid that out very well.
     
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  5. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Vaaran Bhai Gurdas :Vaar26Pauri24:SearchGurbani.com

    Vaar 26 Pauri 24 The facts about Guru Hargobind
    ਧਰਮਸਾਲ ਕਰਿ ਬਹੀਦਾ ਇਕ ਥਾਉਂ ਨ ਟਿਕੈ ਟਿਕਾਇਆ ।
    dharamasaal kari baheedaa ik daaun n tikai tikaaiaa|
    The earlier Gurus considered that to give instructions and to preach to the people, one has to sit at one place known as dharamshala, but this Guru (Hargobind) does riot stick to one place.
    Line 1

    ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹ ਘਰਿ ਆਵਦੇ ਗੜਿ ਚੜਿਆ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹ ਚੜਾਇਆ ।
    paatisaah ghari aavaday garhi charhiaa paatisaah charhaaiaa|
    Earlier emperors would visit the house of the Guru, but this Guru has been interned by the king in a fort.
    Line 2

    ਉਮਤਿ ਮਹਲੁ ਨ ਪਾਵਦੀ ਨਠਾ ਫਿਰੈ ਨ ਡਰੈ ਡਰਾਇਆ ।
    umati mahalu n paavadee natdaa dhirai n darai daraaiaa|
    The sarigat coming to have his glimpse cannot find him in the palace (because generally he is not available). Neither he is scared of anybody nor does he scare any one yet he is always on the move.
    Line 3

    ਮੰਜੀ ਬਹਿ ਸੰਤੋਖਦਾ ਕੁਤੇ ਰਖਿ ਸਿਕਾਰੁ ਖਿਲਾਇਆ ।
    manjee bahi santokhadaa kutay rakhi sikaaru khilaaiaa|
    Earlier Gurus sitting on the seat instructed people to be content but this Guru rears dogs and goes out for hunting.
    Line 4

    ਬਾਣੀ ਕਰਿ ਸੁਣਿ ਗਾਂਵਦਾ ਕਥੈ ਨ ਸੁਣੈ ਨ ਗਾਵਿ ਸੁਣਾਇਆ ।
    baanee kari suni gaanvadaa kadai n sunai n gaavi sunaaiaa|
    The Gurus used to listen to Gurbani but this Guru neither recites nor (regularly) listens to hymn-singing.
    Line 5

    ਸੇਵਕ ਪਾਸ ਨ ਰਖੀਅਨਿ ਦੋਖੀ ਦੁਸਟ ਆਗੂ ਮੁਹਿ ਲਾਇਆ ।
    sayvak paas n rakheeani dokhee dusat aagoo muhi|aaiaa|
    He does not keep his follower servants with him and rather maintains nearness with the wicked and the envious ones (Guru had kept Painde Khan nearby).
    Line 6

    ਸਚੁ ਨ ਲੁਕੈ ਲੁਕਾਇਆ ਚਰਣ ਕਵਲ ਸਿਖ ਭਵਰ ਲੁਭਾਇਆ ।
    sachu n|ukai|ukaaiaa charan kaval sikh bhavar|ubhaaiaa|
    But the truth is never concealed and that is why on the lotus feet of the Guru, the mind of 'Sikhs hover like a greedy black-bee.
    Line 7

    ਅਜਰੁ ਜਰੈ ਨ ਆਪੁ ਜਣਾਇਆ
    ajaru jarai n aapu janaaiaa 24
    Guru Hargobding has borne the unbearable and he has not made himself manifest.
    Line 8
     
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  6. tony

    tony
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    Since my I first wrote my question and mainly due to the topic on hair Ive gained a better understanding off the reasons. I understand the need to take arms and totally agree, it was more the change in clothing that confused me. But with reading more on the situations they where in I can see the need to look more like leaders than just spiritual guides. Especially with Guru Gobing Singh ji no one would follow a man in plain clothes, It is plain to see now that to lead an army against the might of the Mogals you would have to look like someone special. thank you for responses they to helped
    God bless
    Tony
     
  7. spnadmin

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    There are some very good contemporary Persian miniatures that show Guru Har Rai and Guru Hargobind in his daily routine And then also some of Guru Gobind Singh in nonmilitary attire. I have them bookmarked and will post them tonight. These would be pics that were in fact painted during the lifetimes of the Gurus.
     
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  8. tony

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    thank you Antonia ji I would love to see them
     
  9. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    There is one more thing rather interesting about Gurus Hargobind Ji, Har rai Ji, and Har Kishan Ji.
    None of them wrote any Gurbani.
    Reason for this is this.
    When the Anti-Guru Households of the Guru Sons that were REJECTED for the Gurgadee - Guur nanak jis two sons, Guru Angad jis two sons, Guur Amardass Jis two sons, Guru ramdass Jis two sons.. saw that the GURBANI HYMNS of the GURUS were a potent factor in getting RECOGNITION maong the SIKHS..( The Preceeding Guru passed on Gurgadee by investing in the New appointee the Pothi containing the Gurbani..THUS Guur nanak ji passed on His POTHI to Guru Angad Ji...and so on.)..they too thought WHY NOT..we too write "Gurbani". During the tiem of Guur Amardass Ji this was "infant stage"...and thats why Guur Amardass Ji merely WARNED the SIKHS aginst KACHEE BANI...spurious hymns masquarading as Gurbani to fool the innocent. Guru Ji wrote that ONLY SACHEE GURBANI is GURU..and GURU is BANI...and in this GURBANI is the AMRIT.
    When such spurious Banis bgan to increase..Guru Arjun Ji decided to put all Authentic Gurbani into one Volume..the AAD GRANTH. In this way the authentic Gurbani would be preserved and protected from adulterations/alterations/mishandling.
    BUT the Dheermalihs - descendants of the ANTI-GURU Households were not discouraged. After the martyrdom of Guru Arjun ji they (hindlais) went ahead full steam to write "gurbani" under the Mahalla CHHEVAAN (6), Mahlla Satvaan (7). To NEGATE these False Banis..the Two GURUS declined to write any Gurbani....thus making it clear to all that ALL such banis under the Mahallas 6 and 7 were FALSE kachee banis. The Hindalis and the Har sahais continued their subversion by wriitng SPURIOUS HISTORY of the Sikh GURUS..and in their SLANTED Janam Sakhis ( Bhai Bala walee Janam sakhi is written about this period..and its sole purpose is to show that while GURU NANAK JI is no where a holy prophet...guess what..He was Born in the Month of Katik whcih as every Brahmin knows is a month of BAD LUCK ( Guru nanak Jis Birth was shifted from April to katik...in order to show His "low class" as compared to the HINDALI GURU !!! The writer of this janamsakhi pretends to be around the time of Guru nanak Ji/Guru Angad Ji..but internal evidence points to the Hindlais of Post Guru hargobind Ji period. Then these same people also wrote the now infamous books like Gurbilas Patshahi Chhevin which has a huge lot of utter rubbish about the birth of and life of Guru hargobind Ji.)

    ALL this is very very interesting stuff....Sikhs just didnt have time to write their own authentic history...and they couldnt take care of their Gurdwaras...all fell into the hands of the ANTI-GURU Households....while the Sikhs went into the jungles to escape death. For a long period of nearly 200 years the Sikhs lived on horseback....and that gave the enemies of sikhi to falsify ao much of their history....the ONLY thing they failed to BREAK..was the SGGS...due to the Masterly way the Gurbani is written adn EDITED and ACCOUNTED FOR by Guru Arjun Ji sahib....and we are lucky the SGGS came to us unharmed/unadulterated/unaltered in any way...and thus we have the One LITMUS PAPER/TOUCHSTONE of this GURBANI to weigh all our history/sakhis/whatever...

    Jarnail Singh
     
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  10. tony

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    Thank you Gyani ji for this insight, but may I pick up on the reason why the Guru jis didnt add to SGGS ji could it be the same reason why Guru Gobing Singh ji didnt add to it
    Tony
     
  11. spnadmin

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    tonyji

    I did not have time last night to do the upload of the pics. Pretty soon I will. Please forgive me -- hard day yesterday and no energy when I returned home. You will like them though.

    :)

    Gyani ji said something very important here:

    ALL this is very very interesting stuff....Sikhs just didnt have time to write their own authentic history...and they couldnt take care of their Gurdwaras...all fell into the hands of the ANTI-GURU Households....while the Sikhs went into the jungles to escape death. For a long period of nearly 200 years the Sikhs lived on horseback....and that gave the enemies of sikhi to falsify ao much of their history....the ONLY thing they failed to BREAK..was the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...due to the Masterly way the Gurbani is written adn EDITED and ACCOUNTED FOR by Guru Arjun Ji sahib....and we are lucky the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji came to us unharmed/unadulterated/unaltered in any way...and thus we have the One LITMUS PAPER/TOUCHSTONE of this GURBANI to weigh all our history/sakhis/whatever...

    History has to rely very often on documentation that was collected by second parties because of the destruction of Sikh institutions during the period between the death of Guru Gobind Singh and the rise of Maharaj Ranjit Singh. Sometimes these were Persian sources kept by local Persian/Mogal officials, or Vatican sources collected from missionaries or from vatican representatives to the Persian/Moghal courts. A veritable scholar needs to be able to read old Persian and also be able to authenticate the originality of dicuments spread all over India, sometimes in university libraries and sometimes in the posession of private families.
     

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