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Challenges which could come to the Missionaries

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by vijaydeep Singh, Jul 2, 2009.

  1. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Jul 30, 2004
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    (kindly the mainstream Sikhs must ignore it but for the academic purpose. It is done only to keep missionaries sorry self acclaimed missionaries in Sikhism, who are infested by communists at present)

    Well this came by some force in the mind of the das on 27 june 2009 and in evening das went to buy the books called Vishnu Puran and Padham Puran was also bought.

    Next day in the morning while das was doing his reading of Gurbani, das came across at Astha Channel, a Hindu channel, a person at Muradnagar , Guru Purnima celebration of Respected Sat Pal Ji Maharaj, that as Gurbani(of Sikhs) a person who is towards Guru is Gurmukh and reverse in Manmukh. There Gurbani was used by them to preach live Guru.
    We find the following quotations given by self acclaimed scholars for not having the blind faith.

    (੧੪੧੦-, ਸਲੋਕ ਵਾਰਾਂ ਤੇ ਵਧੀਕ, )
    ਪਹਿਲਾ ਵਸਤੁ ਸਿਞਾਣਿ ਕੈ ਤਾਂ ਕੀਚੈ ਾਪਾਰੁ
    pehilaa vasath sinjaan kai thaan keechai vaapaar ||
    First, examine the merchandise, and then, make the deal.
    6 Salok Vaaraan and Vadheek Guru Nanak Dev
    (Ang 1410)

    (੧੨੪੫-, ਵਾਰ-ਸਾਰਗ, )
    ਅਕਲੀ ਪੜ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਕੈ ਬੁਝੀਐ ਅਕਲੀ ਕੀਚੈ ਦਾਨੁ
    akalee parrih kai bujheeai akalee keechai dhaan ||
    Wisdom does not come by reading textbooks; wisdom inspires us to give in charity.
    5 Sarang Guru Nanak Dev
    (Ang 1245)

    So therefore the time has come to put a few question to them.

    Well two more point are made to accuse das.

    • Often people who are targeted are not there. What does spokesman does ? What does Sikhmarg does ? Are Mr Gurcharanjeet Singh Lamba there ? or often at Sikhphilosophy.net when Sants are taken to task or when Gyani Iqbal Singh Ji are censured . They too are no there. Brother Sumra once wrote about Work of Bijla Singh Ji at the place, Bhai Bijla Singh Ji were not present at all. So always better to go in for neutral place and if some moderator of neutral place is biased with some ideology. Then also views of him afre welcome.
    • Another thing was that Text onto Tenth Master does not stand on their own feet unlike Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji, Attacks were made on Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in past based upon making fake verses. But logic and tone used to attack the work of Tenth Master if extended to Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, could lead to an attempt to remove ground from the feets. Then very same people who have been giving two quotes of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji above will be compelled to say that there is no need to do if and but for Guru(Guru Nu Kintu Parantu Na Karo).

    (੪੭੪-, ਵਾਰ-ਆਸਾ, )
    ਸਲਾਮ ਜਬਾਬੁ ਦੋਵੈ ਕਰੇ ਮੁੰਢਹੁ ਘੁਥਾ ਜਾਇ
    salaam jabaab dhovai karae mundtahu ghuthhaa jaae ||
    One who offers both respectful greetings and rude refusal to his master, has gone wrong from the very beginning.
    5 Aasaa Guru Angad Dev
    (Ang 474)

    Now the thing is that do they have only taken the contract to question Guru, or who the hell are they to decide that if we have to keep the blind faith then it should be restricted to Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji only.

    Fact is that not even a single time have been able to prove from Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, that there is no need to for Single human bodied Guru.

    Sources of Tenth Master bestowing Guruship to Eternal Guru Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are at the most Rahit Nammah Bhai Prahlad Singh Ji and Gyani Gyan Singh Ji’s work. They are selective to have faith in it. If they have full faith in both then their many things of ideology are broken.

    Then they restore to Sikh Rahit Maryada from Akal Takhat Sahib, yet as per them as Sants etc. do not follow them, they should also go in for a change. They forget that Sants etc. follow something extra from SGPC Maryada while they want to curtail it. If sant does not eat meat, he yet conforms to the code of not eating Halal/Kutha, while when Sabhra Ji or Ghugga Ji want to eat Halal, then it is curtailing of code.

    So far it has been seen that missionaries like Gyan Bhag Singh Ji, used Devi Bhagvat Purana, while S. Dalbeer Singh Ji are fond of Shiv Purana. They prove that text by Tenth Master is not by him but some Hindu trying to preach some Puranic thing.

    Fact is neither Vedas nor Puranas are standardized. They could be change by them time to time.(Read the book in support Raagmala by Balbeer Singh, from Bhai Veer Singh Sahitya Sadan, in which good lot of info in this regard is provided).

    So either demigoddess or god Shiva, which are as per Purana are termed as all pervading ,formless etc. is shown above the trinity of Brahma , Vishnu and Mahesh.

    Now the thing which is discovered is strange.

    In some Puranas we have all pervading Purush/Narayan/Hari/Gobind/Kishan/Keshav who is nirgun and under whom the trinity of Brahma ,Vishnu and Mahesh/Shiv work or are manifested.

    This nirguna Narayan of Purans is formless and separate from trinity of Three Hindu demigods.

    Now there is hardly any need for das to tell about Hari/Naryan/Parabrahm of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

    Some devotees like Ajamil, Elephant, Dhruv and Prahlad are also mentioned in Puranas.

    Then in Upnishads, we find name Narayan/Brahm/Oankar given to same formless all manifesting God.

    So das was compelled to buy Hindu texts as they were referred again and again and validity to them was given by missionaries themselves. Based upon what Hindus do, we have started to edit our own faith. So this is compulsion in the das’s mind by some force to use the same logic, which they have used for Work onto Tenth Master.

    Here we need answers then just jingoism that Hindus want to absorb us or do not want to absorb us. Fact is that now Das is asking. What will do when anti Panthic Hindutva guy will ask ?

    (੫੯-, ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ, )
    ਕਥਨੈ ਕਹਣਿ ਛੁਟੀਐ ਨਾ ਪੜਿ ਪੁਸਤਕ ਭਾਰ
    kathhanai kehan n shhutteeai naa parr pusathak bhaar ||
    No one is saved by mere talk and speech, nor by reading loads of books.
    4 Sriraag Guru Nanak Dev

    (੫੯-, ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ, )
    ਕਾਇਆ ਸੋਚ ਪਾਈਐ ਬਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਪਿਆਰ
    kaaeiaa soch n paaeeai bin har bhagath piaar ||
    The body does not obtain purity without loving devotion to the Lord.
    4 Sriraag Guru Nanak Dev

    (੫੯-, ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ, )
    ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਮੇਲੇ ਗੁਰੁ ਕਰਤਾਰ
    naanak naam n veesarai maelae gur karathaar ||8||9||
    O Nanak, never forget the Naam; the Guru shall unite us with the Creator. ||8||9||
    5 Sriraag Guru Nanak Dev
    (Ang 59)

    So for das it is only devotion and without any censorship by guys who could not defend Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji but are opening a Pandora box for an attack on them(Our Eternal Guru).

    Vishnu Puran(Hindi Tranlation only)
    Ansha First, Chapter Second: An all pervading, unborn Vasudev Vishnu which takes form of Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh.
    Chapter Nine: we are told that formless Hari has powers like brahma, Vishnu and Shiv.
    Chapter Nineteen: Prahlad carries out praise of Para Power/Oam/Gobind/Vasudev/Krishana, who is in all taking form of Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh.
    Chapter Twenty Two,

    We have brahma giving kingdom to various entities like Varuna to water, Prahlad to demons etc. There we find Vishnu given the kingdom of Adityas. Later we are told that all are form Primal Soul Vishnu. We have Shiv, Brahma and Vishnu among various other mythological entities being told as entities of Shri Hari.
    In following lines again Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh are told the powers of Hari/Madhav etc.At end term Nirakar or formless is used for Shri Hari.

    Ansh Second, Chapter Seven: we are having mentiones of endless universe and millions of universe.
    Chapter Eleven has mention of Para Power of Vishnu, with three qulities and Brahma, Vishnu and Mahadev from them. Then at start we have Rig for Brhama, Yajur for Vishnu and Sam for Rudra.
    Chapter Tweleve talks of Mountain, Forsest and water bodies and all as Vishnu.

    Ansh Three chapter one: Verbal meaning of pervading Vishnu from verbal stem of vish ie to enter or to be in all.
    Chapter three talks of Oamkar Ekakshar. Brahm and Vasudev same for one all pervading.
    Sixth Ansh Chapter 5: we find over here that, Both heaven and Hell are told to be not good for human. As rebirth is bound to occur. So Moksha or libration is best.As stay or live in all so is called Vasudev. Knowing or having Gyan for that is salvation

    Chapter Seven:again we find that brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh are told to be form of one God, who is all called Prabrahm Swaroop Vishnu. Vishwa is the rup of Shri Hari is the all creation. Power of Vishnu is again told as Para(Par is form told in initial chapter talking of some thing happening to do while in the form of creation, while another form is Pradhan. The exact verses etc. could be given if asked from das on his email id akalusatvijay@yahoo.com

    Before we proceed to next Purana, We need to discuss a Thing. In Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, we find that Puranas are mentioned. This means that Gurus have studied them. So why should Guru use such names for God, which are bound to be confused for demigods of Hindus called formless Vishnu.

    Why can not there be a conspiracy by Hindu, like putting poison in milk, where we find the with cunningness via using names of formless etc, Sikhs are being made as devotees of Vishnu/Hari/Keshav of Hindus. A few scatter remarks opposing Puranas are put in just so not let intelligent Sikhs have any suspicion ?

    Not the main stream Sikhs should bother for them. Only missionaries are requested to answer this.

    So we go in for Padam Purana
    Srishti Khanda Chapter 2, verse 114: One God Janardan Vishnu only takes form of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiv.That Janardan Vishnu is form of world/universe.
    Chapter 22: Baman is the one taking form of Brhma, Vishnu and Mahesh, he is all pervading, self created.
    Bhoomi Khand Chapter 72: Hundred names of Vishnu include. Shri Ram, Krishan, Govind, Gopal, Madho, Shri nivas, Shri Hari etc.
    Patal Khanda Chapter 140: we find that Brahma , Vishnu And Shiv are forms/manifestation Shri Hari
    Uttrakahnd Chapter 172: one eternal/Sanatan Purush Naryana, God of gods sits/manifests in Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh.
    Uttrakhand Chapter 90, Verse 63,64, we find Krishan calling himself head of Samart deities( Sun, Demigoddess, Ganesha, Shiv and Vishnu , worshipper of either worship Krishna only).
    Now the Puranas already read by missionaries yet not properly .

    Markandey Purana(it is not Shakta Purana as such as Markandey was Shavite, He was saved by Shiva, as Shiva killed death and angel of death to save him. )

    Chapter 42. Verse 19: a term Jaganath or lord of universe is used manifesting a Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. Verse 27-35 talk of formless God. Verse 71 talks of term Purusha.

    Chapter 43, verse 16 talks of all pervading lord manifesting in Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva
    Verse 17 calls that Svyambhu/Self created and talks the work that does while in three manifestations.
    Verse18: tells about three manifestations having three respective qualities.
    Till verse 21 more info is given.

    Shrimad Bhagvat Purana
    First Shoulder, chapter 2:Verse 23 One primal soul who is having no second takes form of Brahma ,Vishnu and Mahesh, in their respective qualities. Verse 28 to 34 gives name to super God as Shri Krishna and talks about all pervading attitude of it.
    Chapter Seven, verse 55 to 58 talks of cutting hairs equal to killing.
    Second Shoulder, Chapter 3: Verse 1. On death what should an intelligent person do ?Part of Verse 3: for courage worship Rudra..3.. Part of verse 6: To be the master of all Worship of Brahma be done..6.. Part of verse 7: Shanker should be worshiped for education. Part of verse 8: to earn the righteousness one should worship god Vishnu.Part of Verse 9: For the state of desire less ness , worship primal complete(Param Purusha) Narayan..9..Verse 10: One who is intelligent , weather without desire, with all desire or wanting to have Moksha/libration, then with fast unioin of devotion ,Lord Best of Purusha/purshotam Bhagvan only should be worshipped.(Purush means complete).

    Chapter 4: Verse 1 to 4 are question about Lord Krishna. Verse 7 talks of god’s name as Shri Hari. Verse 9 talks of taking forms/manifestations.

    Verse 12 talks of all pervading God taking manifestation of Brhama, Vishnu and Mahesh as per their respective qualities. Ie Sato/Truth , Rajo/Practicality, Tamo/Dark/Evil respectively .
    Chapter 6: Verse 30: whole universe is within Narayana,Verse 31: I Brhama create by his command, Shiv by his command destroy. And he only in the form of Vishnu nurtures the universe.Talks of Virat Purusha as huge complete God in verse 41, Then in next verse I(Brahma), Shiva , Vishnu among others are told to be forms of God.

    Shoulder 3, chapter 6: Verse 5 talks of Virat Purusha all pervading..Verse 22 talks of Vishnu entering his feets.Verse 23 Talks Brahma entering mind.Verse 25 talks of Rudra entering as ego.
    Chapter 7, talks of Shri Hari taking form of Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh in verse 28.
    Chapter 29: verse 21. I exist in all creatures in the form of soul, so if some disrespect my presence in all elements and do idol worship, they do just drama/gimmicks. Verse 22. That egoist and viewer of difference person, keeps enmity with other beings, by this way does enmity with me present as in their souls. Never gets peace of mind. Verse 23 Oh Mother! A person who disrespects other, Though may with good and bad things does my idol worship with various rituals. Yet I am not happy with him. Verse 24: Man should do my idol worship only till in his heart and in all being he does not feel primal soul.

    Sixth Shoulder, Chapter 3: part of Verse 11: there is a talk of remembering the lotus feet of Shri Hari. Verse 12 has mention: Lord of universe, mixed with all like cloth in thread. Part of that becomes Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh. For creation, existence and doom.Like oxen pierced in nose., whole world is under that.
    Chapter 16:verse 18 talks of Oamkar with words like Vasudev etc.Verse 22 talks of God in all.verse 25 again talks of Oamkar.Verse 37 talks of billions of Universes.
    Shoulder Seven , Chapter 15, Verse 53. Term Oankar(not Omkar) is told about and in Next verse 54: the whole series is written in which Turiya Avstha of spiritual libratioin Is given via Oankar.
    Shaulder Eleven, Chapter Four: Verse 2-4 talks of Adidev/First God Purush /Complete Narayan, who is in three worlds, Five elements etc.Verse 5 Talks of that God’s taking form of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva, with Three respective qualitiesnfor creation, existence and destruction. Verse 22 Calls this God Ajanam or never born.
    Chapter Five, Verse 36:talks of singing glory or Sankirtan as best for Kaliyuga.

    Then coming to UPnishads for Vedanta.
    Mandukya Upnishad, AlatShantiprakaran, Topic 92, has title Narayan Namskar, ie God, who is in all is called Narayan and Salutatioin is done.

    Tatiriyopnishad, Ashtam Anuvak, topic 10: title is Oankar Upasana. All pervading God is told as Oankar and Oankar and Om are told to be the same.

    Reason for das doing this work was just to show that if some one takes help purly of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Hindus can simply say that Formless Oankar/Naryana etc who is only one, is their Puranic God, and trinity is that’s subordinate. Using only Shri Guru Granth Sahib, will not let Sikhism survive the onslaught of Hindu absorption.
    So over here das did read Hindu text with not happy state of mind. After consulting Bhai Kanwar Ajeet Singh(Wrtier of books “Sabh Dusht Jhakh Mara” and Comredi Sikhan De Kautak” dealing with Kala Afghanism and leftists posing as Sikh Missionaries), and having the answer for this, das thought to test missionaries understanding of Gurmat.

    A few more questions.

    Why did Bhatts beheld that Guru was same thing for them as Bavan, Rama or Krishna in previous ages ?

    Rama was one who committed suicide as per missionaries and Krishna was rapist as per them of a lady called Chandraval(there is a temple of her in Braj Area also).

    Is not that insult of Gurus to link their names with such not good people ? And by mistake Ex Hindus Bhatts did say like that, then there is hardly any need for Fifth Master to add this Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

    Likewise why such a person, who has lost his wife to Ravana , in his own words, Did Devotee Namdev Ji, said that his God/Lord only is son of Dashrath Rama. Why such a weak entity attached to the God at all ? And we are told that if some way that lord is in womb then face of such person should be burnt. Anyway so far Das has not seen any Sikh Missionary burning the face of any Hindu, who behold God as incarnations of Rama or Krishna, Are they not disobeying the order of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ?

    There a few more question regarding the left out lady by her Husband or Dohagan. It is not always the fault of wife. So why her example is taken by Guru, Did not Guru had sympathy for them, as he himself said, why tell evil for that from where kings are born.

    (੭੮੫-, ਵਾਰ-ਸੂਹੀ, )
    salok ma 3 ||
    Shalok, Third Mehl:
    6 null null

    (੭੮੫-, ਵਾਰ-ਸੂਹੀ, )
    ਸੂਹੈ ਵੇਸਿ ਦੋਹਾਗਣੀ ਪਰ ਪਿਰੁ ਰਾਵਣ ਜਾਇ
    soohai vaes dhohaaganee par pir raavan jaae ||
    In her red robes the discarded bride goes out seeking enjoyment with another's husband.
    6 Soohee Guru Amar Das

    (੭੮੫-, ਵਾਰ-ਸੂਹੀ, )
    ਪਿਰੁ ਛੋਡਿਆ ਘਰਿ ਆਪਣੈ ਮੋਹੀ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ
    pir shhoddiaa ghar aapanai mohee dhoojai bhaae ||
    She leaves the husband of her own home, enticed by her love of duality.
    7 Soohee Guru Amar Das

    (੭੮੫-, ਵਾਰ-ਸੂਹੀ, )
    ਮਿਠਾ ਕਰਿ ਕੈ ਖਾਇਆ ਬਹੁ ਸਾਦਹੁ ਵਧਿਆ ਰੋਗੁ
    mithaa kar kai khaaeiaa bahu saadhahu vadhhiaa rog ||
    She finds it sweet, and eats it up; her excessive sensuality only makes her disease worse.
    7 Soohee Guru Amar Das

    (੭੮੫-, ਵਾਰ-ਸੂਹੀ, )
    ਸੁਧੁ ਭਤਾਰੁ ਹਰਿ ਛੋਡਿਆ ਫਿਰਿ ਲਗਾ ਜਾਇ ਵਿਜੋਗੁ
    sudhh bhathaar har shhoddiaa fir lagaa jaae vijog ||
    She forsakes the Lord, her sublime Husband, and then later, she suffers the pain of separation from Him.
    8 Soohee Guru Amar Das

    (੭੮੫-, ਵਾਰ-ਸੂਹੀ, )
    ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੁ ਪਲਟਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਤੀ ਸਾਜਿ ਸੀਗਾਰਿ
    guramukh hovai s palattiaa har raathee saaj seegaar ||
    But she who becomes Gurmukh, turns away from corruption and adorns herself, attuned to the Love of the Lord.
    8 Soohee Guru Amar Das

    (੭੮੫-, ਵਾਰ-ਸੂਹੀ, )
    ਸਹਜਿ ਸਚੁ ਪਿਰੁ ਰਾਵਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਾ ਉਰ ਧਾਰਿ
    sehaj sach pir raaviaa har naamaa our dhhaar ||
    She enjoys her celestial Husband Lord,and enshrines the Lord's Name within her heart.
    9 Soohee Guru Amar Das

    (੭੮੫-, ਵਾਰ-ਸੂਹੀ, )
    ਆਗਿਆਕਾਰੀ ਸਦਾ +ਹਾਗਣਿ ਆਪਿ ਮੇਲੀ ਕਰਤਾਰਿ
    aagiaakaaree sadhaa suohaagan aap maelee karathaar ||
    She is humble and obedient; she is His virtuous bride forever; the Creator unites her with Himself.
    9 Soohee Guru Amar Das

    (੭੮੫-੧੦, ਵਾਰ-ਸੂਹੀ, )
    ਨਾਨਕ ਪਿਰੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਸਾਚਾ ਸਦਾ +ਹਾਗਣਿ ਨਾਰਿ
    naanak pir paaeiaa har saachaa sadhaa suohaagan naar ||1||
    O Nanak, she who has obtained the True Lord as her husband, is a happy soul-bride forever. ||1||
    10 Soohee Guru Amar Das
    (Ang 785)

    Why Guru use such terms being mentioned while talking of spirituality. Left out, went for sex with other’s husband, then own husband does the same. Is this not immoral to have such an examples ?

    This is considered to be the strongest asset for the missionaries.

    But if simlar graammer is found in Hindu Text then are they ready to give it up ?

    Let us see the two examples of the work by Tulsi Das Ji.

    First Doha of Hanuman Chalisa

    Shri Guru Charan Saroj Raj.(Das thinks that in older version it was Saroj(u) Raj(u))
    Nij Man(u)Mukur Shudhar(i)..
    Barnaun Raghubar Bimal Jas(u).
    Jo Dayak(u) Phal Char(i)..
    Budhiheen Tan(u) Jan(i)Kai.
    Sumiraon Pavan Kumar..
    Bal Buddhi Vidya Dehu Mohin.
    Harhu Kalesh Vikar..

    Ram Charitra Manas,Ayodhya Kand, Verse 16.
    Chatur Ganbheer Ram Mahtaree.Beech(u) Pai Nij Bat Sanwari..
    Pathai Bharat(u) Bhop Naniaurien. Ram Mat(u) Mat Janab Raurein..
    Sevhin Sakal Savt(i) Mohi Neekein.Garbit Bharat Mat(u) Bal Pee Kein..
    Salu Tumhar Kausalahi Mai. Kapat Chatur Nahin Hoi Janai..
    Rajahi Tumh Par Prem(u) Beseshi. Savat(i) Subhau Sakai Nahin Dekhee..
    Rach(i) Prapanch(u) Bhopahi Apnai.Ram Tilak Hit Lagan Dharai.
    Yah Kul Uchit Ram Kahun Teeka. Sabahi Sohaee Mohi Suthi Neeka..
    Agili Bat Samujh(i) Dar(u) Mohi.Deu Dei Phir So Phal(u) Ohi..
    Do. Rach(i) Pach(i) Kotik Kutilpan Kinhesi Kapat Prabodh(u).
    Kahisi Katha Sat Savat(i) Kai Jehi Bidhi Barh Birodh(u)..18..

    Key (i) silent Sihari.
    (u) Silent Aunkar.
    (clue of this taken from Gyani Racchpal Singh Ji, Delhi)
    Further to this we find that Gyani Harkirat Singh wrote book about grammar, at Patiala’s university of which left oriented guys could not get answer so destroyed in en block. Some copies are saved and secure. As per him silent vowels could have great use for musical tunes also.

    So the following questions.
    As per Kala Afghana Ji, Adi Beerh or volume, which Guru has said to compiled himself , presently at Kartarpur Sodhiyan is fake. So all vowels or Matra taken from that for standard are not authentic.
    Bhai Bannu version presently at Kanpur has “some interpolation”.
    Damdami Beerh or present version’s original copy is lost in Great Holocaust. So the rest may not be authentic. There is no volume of archeological importance coming in the eyes of Das where Verses Unto Tenth Master are conforming with the grammar preached by missionaries. As per Dr Anokh Singh Ji, Fact is that they have now changed the composition of Bani by adding or removing some Matras, to let it conforms to the grammar.

    So is the grammar thought by the missionaries authentic ? Some old volumes, especially the one by Guru, in which Verse onto Ninth Master conform to the Grammer preached by the missionaries.

    Next if we make s the sh by adding Bindi or dot our self then say we Say Lakh Khushian Patshahian, instead of Lakh Kusia Patsahia, then why do not we also add bindi below Khakkha also. As in Farsi there is a word Qhe, while in Urdu we have just developed Khaf for Khakkah by adding Kaf with He. So it should be Lakh Qhushian Pashahian.

    Then why are we doing the partiality with Farsi only ?

    The word in Mool Mantra is Parsad. As per Sanskrit it should be Prashad. Why has so far Mool Mantra not changed by Missionaries ?

    Where is in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, we find term Mool Mantra used for Ek Oankar Satinam Karta Purakh Nirbhau Nirvair Akal Murat Ajuni Sahbhang Gurprasad ?

    Where in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, we find should be pronounced as Ek Oankar ? As such word of Oankar is there in Shrimad Bhagvat, so there should be some new pronunciation of Oankar as for Sikhs.

    Then what about term Khalsa. Why not Bindi below Khakha. It should be Qhalsa as Khaf for Khakha of Punjabi,is new edition in Urdu while in Urdu also Qhe is used to writer the Arabic word of Khalsa or say Khalsai in the case of Shri Guru Granth Sahib in verse onto Bhagat Kabeer.

    Hinduism absorbing Sikhism like Budhism.

    Before the advent of Islam, India had two types of Faith, called Brahmin Dharam(faith of having a God and person directly unites self with that God )and Shrman/Shravag Dharma(No God, but with help of holy man, any person gets free from various pains with own efforts).

    It is true that faithless Shramans were easily absorbed by Brahmins. But what about Islam and Christianity, Inspite of all effort by RSS and their allies, they are present and developing with leaps and bound, why ?

    As in both of the Semitic faiths mentioned above there is God. So they themselves are Brahmin Dhramas and even stronger then native Brahmin Dharam. While in Case of Sikh Missionaries they are trying their level best to take Sikhs nearer to Buddhism, Jainism as both of them too are atheist like Missionaries.

    While Sikhism has great deal of commonality with Semitic faiths. So mainstream Sikhism having the attribute of Semitism will save the self while yes missionaries will go the Buddhist and Jain way.

    Too much logic and questioning was done By Arya Samajis also. In fact logical justification is the part of Fifth Hindu Philosophy of Nayay Shashtra. As a Sikh why missionary are using this ?

    What is the status of Arya Samajis or Protestants in their countries from whom you draw inspiration ? Are they not dying and children becoming atheists or reverting to the mainstream. Rather they have now modified themselves to look like main stream as in case of Swami Ramdev Ji or Jehowas Witness cult.
    If answer are not there with you dear missionaries then what is the use of your preaching others ?

    (੯੩੮-੧੭, ਰਾਮਕਲੀ, )
    ਰੋਸੁ ਕੀਜੈ ਉਤਰੁ ਦੀਜੈ ਕਿਉ ਪਾਈਐ ਗੁਰ ਦੁਆਰੋ
    ros n keejai outhar dheejai kio paaeeai gur dhuaaro ||
    Don't be angry with us - please tell us: How can we find the Guru's Door?\"
    17 Raamkalee Guru Nanak Dev
    (Ang 938)
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  3. The Khalsa Fauj

    The Khalsa Fauj
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    Dec 1, 2006
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    Vijaydeep, once again there is lack of understanding Gurbani. Let me repeat, bhatts don't accept Guru Ji to be avtars or Krshan, Bavan, etc. Bhagat Namdev doesn't accept Ram chander of Dashrath either. If we give you proper translations of those quotes, will you accept that Dasam Granth is wrong?
  4. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Jul 30, 2004
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    Translation first. Acceptance of Das does not matter. If some idiotic Hindu proves translation given by you wrong then ?

    Well there is one person Shri Bihari Lal Ji, from RSS, he is from RSS(Rashtriya Sikh Sangat) and das had many time very serious arguments with him on this issue. And thanks to the training imparted to Das by Singhs like Gyani Surjeet Singh Ji missionary, the person in question avoids the Das.

    Das never said that in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, we find worship of any one but Akal. Das does not believes in existence of any Hindu demigod or incarnation at all.

    For Das only Akal exist.

    Perhaps due to fault of das's lacking good communicating skill, das has failed the matter which he wanted to convey to you. Here topic is of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and not to do with verse onto The Tenth Master.

    Das has never seen missionaries taking on Hindtva idiots. Das jsut want them to let them taste, what we taste while dealing with them. We make them prove that verse onto Tenth Master also refute all the Hindu demigod.OK sorry for going off the topic.

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