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Can muslims go out with sikhs?

Discussion in 'Sikh Youth' started by _Veer_, Dec 30, 2006.

  1. _Veer_

    _Veer_
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    I have one question that has been bothering me for some time. Are sikhs allowd to go out or marry muslims? I had asked my father this same question but he had said that it is against the principals of sikhs and that it says something about this in the Dasam granth...Is this true?


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  3. vaapaaraa

    vaapaaraa
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    Yeah, if you have an "affair"(if you know what i mean) with a muslim woman, you lose your sikhi. But just talking etc is fine and keep good intentions only as a friend.


    Here read this incident that happened when Maharaja Ranjit Singh married a muslim women, and the judgment passed by the Akal Takht.

    "Akali Phoola Singh was born leader, outspoken such that he would even spoke to Ranjit Singh of his problems. When Ranjit Singh married to a Muslim woman, named Moran of Lahore, Akali Phula Singh, as he was the Jathedar of Akal Takth declared that Maharaja Ranjit singh is not a Sikh anymore and is a Tankhaiya which means out of Sikhism. He ordered the defendant to be at Golden temple before the community. Ranjit singh came and admitted that he had made a mistake. Akali Phula Singh ordered him 50 lashes for Maharaja Ranjit Singh right there. Ranjit Singh took off his shirt and bowed down to receive his punishment, at such Akali Phula Singh asked Community (Sadh Sangat) to forgive the Maharaja who has bowed down in front of the Sadh Sangat for this mistake. And thus Maharaja was pardoned, but not before he promised that he will not marry again."

    there are more like incidents like this, but i think you understand. Just be strong in yourself, Try to read more Jaap Sahib, it will give you strength to resist.


    What do other members of the sangat say? What if the muslim woman would convert to sikhism and then they marry? As far as i know i think the wife of Ranjit Singh was a practising muslim, I might be wrong.
     
  4. Dimitri

    Dimitri
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    Somebody declares if u are a sikh or not?
    Mardana who went with Guru Nanak on their journeys was a Muslim.
    So you can be friends with them but can't marry them.
    Very interesting.
     
  5. vaapaaraa

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    Mardana was a follower of Guru Nanak Sahib ji, Guru Nanak Sahib ji, not only advised the hindus, but the muslims too.

    Gurbani speaks to all independent of caste, religion, race etc. Guru Nanak Sahib ji does not belong to any one sect.

    Anyway, What is more important to you, your wife, or your Satguru? why would you want to have intimate relations with such a person, who does not follow Guru ji's teachings?

    If you believe in reincarnation, you have had countless wives, children, husbands, but your beloved Satguru is one and only one.

    If you do really care about your muslim friend, why not put them on the correct path, and ask them if they follow your Satguru's Techings, they appeal to everyone. Save them from the suffereings. Thats what I would do too.. I ask my muslim friends to recite the name of allah.

    Relationships are an emotional feeling, they are emotional attachment, Unkowing people they think it brings them happiness, and when the loved person leaves, they feel sad. Why dont you be a sacrifice to such a Lord, who has made this emotional attachment (the cause of suffering), feel sweet to you??
     
  6. freedom84

    freedom84
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    Sex before marriage is forbidden in Sikhism. Muslims strictly cannot marry non-Muslims (I think their punishment for this is death, so it must be preety serious!). If a (true) Muslims asked you to marry him/her, they'd also ask you to convert to Islam for sure. But the Guru tells you never to leave your Sikhi, and never ask the Muslim to convert to Sikhism for you so you can marry.
     
  7. drkhalsa

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    Dear Friend

    Thanks for such wonderful post!!

    Akal 's Grace shines through it


    Thanks again

    About keeping relation with muslim Girl has been written as Kurehat and it relates more with the time when Sikh warriors used to fight muslim and in process came in contact with their helpless women so Kind of war Rule for Discipline

    So as I can understand one can marry muslim afetr conversion and still remember Allah as their is no such prohibition in Sikhi.






    Jatinder Singh
     
  8. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    could you please tell me where guru ji says that never ask muslim to convert
    to sikhism.sikhi is for everybody not only for born only sikhs.
     
  9. vijaydeep Singh

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    Gurfateh

    Das did not read this in Dasham Granth sahib but in Sau Sakhi.Once a Sikhs was captured by Muslims,we has forced to convert to Islam.He was forced to eat Halal and Read Kalima.

    When he got a chance,he came back to Guru and told.Guru asked him that did he sleep with a Muslim lady,He said no.

    Guru told him that Sikhi does not go by force but with intentaion wrong deeds.so your Sikhi has not gone as onyl after sleeping with Muslim lady would have lead to yuor intentional evil act.

    Other Sikhs asked that Muslims does such things with Hindu Devis then why should not we also do same with thier female folk.Guru said that Mohmud has risen the Paht of Ghost.Sikhi will not let you go dowen but in higher reaches.

    Das read such thing like Musli {censored word, do not repeat.} Se Judh Nahi Karega.Ie no sex with Muslim or ***** or rather no adulatray with same.So better tom make Muslim person Sikhs while marrying else be Muslim insetead.But as such das did not find from Sikh side any restrictioons.In Islam's few interpetaion and most Muslims mfollows the same.Any Muslim lady if maried to non Muslim has be leave Islam.
     
  10. _Veer_

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    i was not acctually seeing some one who was a muslim i just wanted to find out because my friend shes a girl may be seeing a muslim guy it angers me to be seeing this happen bacause i like the girl so yea i just wanted to find out
     
  11. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    if the person that is going out with muslim is girl then there is 90% chance thats she will give up its sikhi.in mixed marriages majority of times its always girl that give up its religion and in the case of islam the muslim man cannot marry a hindu or sikh unless she converts to islam
     
  12. Huck_Finn

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    religion is personal choice...and so is marriage or relationships

    and to the point of sikhi follower marrying a follower of islam or hinduism or buddhism, this logic or forbidden has no relation to sikhi..

    things forbidden in sikhi are above the walls of religion, caste etc..those are the 5 ... kaam, krodh, lobh, moh and hankaar

    other teachings of principles include naam , sadh sangat, universal brotherhood (or equality of humanity) , earn and eat, speaking out for justice

    rest all is manifestations of interpretations of our readings which take form of rehats, kurehats and forbidden taboos etc...

    IMHO two are independent domains, though they assert influence on each other.
     
  13. mitesh31

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    can they?
     
  14. riceboy89

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    this question has been puzzling me too. but my question ventures out to the entire human spectrum. if sikhism teaches us all people are equal, can sikhs marry/go out with non sikhs without renouncing our sikhi?
     
  15. navroopsingh

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    You are not a sikh if you marry a person outside of sikhism because it is stated in the rehat ordered by the Akal Takht.

    Article XVIII

    a. A Sikh man and woman should enter wedlock without giving thought to the prospective spouse's caste and descent.
    b. A Sikh's daughter must be married to a Sikh.
    c. A Sikh's marriage should be solemnized by anand marriage rites.
    d. Child marriage is taboo for Sikhs.
    e. When a girl becomes marriageable, physically, emotionally and by virtue of maturity of character, a suitable Sikh match should be found and she be married to him by Anand marriage rites.
    f. Marriage may not be preceded by engagement ceremony. But if an engagement ceremony is sought to he held, a congregational gathering should be held and, after offering the Ardas before the Guru Granth Sahib, a kirpan, a steel bangle and some sweets may be tendered to the boy.
    g. Consulting horoscopes for determining which day or date is auspicious or otherwise for fixing the day of the marriage is a sacrilege. Any day that the parties find suitable by mutual consultation should be fixed.
    h. Putting on floral or gilded face ornamentation, decorative headgear or red thread band round the wrist, worshipping of ancestors, dipping feet in milk mixed with water, cutting a berry or jandi (Prosopis spieigera) bushes, filling pitcher, ceremony of retirement in feigned displeasure, reciting couplets, performing havans (Sacrificial fire), installing vedi (a wooden canopy or pavilion under which Hindu marriages are performed), prostitutes' dances, drinking liquor, are all sacrileges.
    i. The marriage party should have as small a number of people as the girl's people desire. The two sides should greet each other singing sacred hymns and finally by the Sikh greetings of Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh.
    j. For marriage, there should be a congregational gathering in the holy presence of Guru Granth Sahib. There should be hymn-singing by ragis or by the whole congregation. Then the girl and the boy should he made to sit facing the Guru Granth Sahib. The girl should sit on the left side of the boy. After soliciting the congregation's permission, the master of the marriage ceremony (who may be a man or a woman) should bid the boy and girl and their parents or guardians to stand and should offer the Ardas for the commencement of the Anand marriage ceremony.
    The officiant should then apprise the boy and the girl of the duties and obligations of conjugal life according to the Guru's tenets.
    He should initially give to the two an exposition of their common mutual obligations. He should tell them how to model the husband-wife relationship on the love between the individual soul and the Supreme Soul in the light of the contents of circumambulation (Lavan) hymns in the Suhi measure (rag) section (The bulk of the Guru Granth (the Sikh holy book ) is divided on the basis of the ragas (measures) of the Indian classical music. Suhi is one of the ragas featuring in the Guru Granth Sahib) of the Guru Granth Sahib.
    He should explain to them the notion of the state of "a single soul in two bodies" to be achieved through love and make them see how they may attain union with the Immortal Being discharging duties and obligations of the householders' life. Both of them, they should be told, have to make their conjugal union a means to the fulfillment of the purpose of the journey of human existence; both have to lead clean and Guru-oriented lives through the instrumentality of their union.
    He should then explain to the boy and girl individually their respective conjugal duties as husband and wife.
    The bridegroom should be told that the girl's people having chosen him as the fittest match from among a whole lot, he should regard his wife as his better half, accord to unflinching love and share with her all that he has. In all situations, he should protect her person and honour, he should be completely loyal to her and he should show much respect and consideration for her parents and relations as for his own.
    The girl should be told that she has been joined in matrimony to her man in the hallowed presence of the Guru Granth Sahib and the congregation. She should ever harbour for him deferential solicitude, regard him the lord master of her love and trust; she should remain firm in her loyalty to him and serve him in joy and sorrow and in every clime (native or foreign) and should show the same regard and consideration to his parents and relatives as she would, to her own parents and relatives.
    The boy and girl should bow before the Guru Granth Sahib to betoken their acceptance of these instructions. Thereafter, the girl's father or the principal relation should make the girl grasp one end of the sash which the boy is wearing over his shoulders and the person in attendance of the Guru Granth Sahib should recite the matrimonial circumambulation stanzas {Lavan of the fourth Guru in the Suhi musical measure section of the Guru Granth Sahib } (Pp. 773-4). After the conclusion of the recitation of each of the stanzas, the boy, followed by the girl holding the end of the sash, should go round the Guru Granth Sahib while the ragis or the congregation sing out the recited stanza.
    The boy and girl, after every circumambulation, should bow before the Guru Granth Sahib in genuflexion, lowering their forehead to touch the ground and then stand up to listen to the recitation of the next stanza.There being four matrimonial circumambulation stanzas in the concerned hymn, the proceeding will comprise four circumambulations with the incidental singing of the stanza.After the fourth circumabulation, the boy and girl should, after bowing before the Guru Granth Sahib, sit down at the appointed place and the Ragis or the person who has conducted the ceremony should recite the first five and the last stanza of the Anand Sahib. Thereafter, the Ardas should he offered to mark the conclusion of the Anand marriage ceremony and the sacred pudding, distributed'.
    k. Persons professing faiths other than the Sikh faith cannot be joined in wedlock by the Anand Karaj ceremony.
    l. No Sikh should accept a match for his/her son or daughter for monetary consideration.
    m. If the girl's parents at any time or on any occasion visit their daughter's home and a meal is ready there, they should not hesitate to eat there. Abstaining from eating at the girl's home is a superstition. The Khalsa has been blessed with the boon of victuals and making others eat by the Guru and the Immortal Being. The girl's and boy's people should keep accepting each other's hospitality, because the Guru has joined them in relationship of equality (Prem Sumarag).
    n. If a woman's husband has died, she may, if she so wishes, finding a match suitable for her, remarry. For a Sikh man whose wife has died, similar ordinance obtains.
    o. The remarriage may be solemnized in the same manner as the Anand marriage.
    p. Generally, no Sikh should marry a second wife if the first wife is alive.
    q. A baptised ought to get his wife also baptised.


    Ill post this again in another thread to finally clear it up. Read it and understand that you just cant!
     
  16. riceboy89

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    thanks much for clearing up the matter! nice post.
     

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